Computer Audio Asylum

Posted by alan m. kafton (D) on February 21, 2008 at 16:01:51

In Reply to: RE: $550 buys a lot of snake oil these days! (nt) posted by Scrith on February 19, 2008 at 10:04:35

....for trying to keep us from using our own valued judgment, showing us that our lifetime of experience is irrelevant to our musical enjoyment, and especially, especially from spending our own well-earned money, long after we moved out our parents' house. Three cheers to our protectors.

Before I spend another dime, ever, I'm gonna contact them. Gosh, I didn't know decisions could be that easy.

• RE: Huge thanks to Scrith and Jim of Oak Creek.... - Scrith 20:58:25 02/21/08 (3)
  In Reply to: RE: Huge thanks to Scrith and Jim of Oak Creek.... posted by alan m. kafton on February 21, 2008 at 16:01:51

  If your valued judgment and lifetime of experience tells you to invest in snake oil, then I definitely think you should do it. :-)
  
  
  

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  • RE: Huge thanks to Scrith and Jim of Oak Creek.... - Nerull 20:10:00 06/14/08 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: Huge thanks to Scrith and Jim of Oak Creek.... posted by Scrith on February 21, 2008 at 20:58:25

    For those not aware, USB is a digital communications format. This means it transmits in ones and zeros. The exact same data comes out of the cable as goes in - its not changed. If there is sufficient noise, the device simply doesn't function, and this would be a defective cable.
    
    All the super duper magic treatings you give to a USB cable cannot change the fact that the exact same series of ones and zeros comes out the other end. The cheapest functioning cable, to $3000 super duper quantum tunneling cables (You don't know what quantum tunneling is, do you? They are sure hoping you don't.) all produce the exact same output.
    
    Anyone who thinks they hear any difference is a lair, pure and simple.
    
    
    More eduction for the gullible:
    
    Quantum tunneling is the effect where photons and other QM-size particles can randomly jump to a new position. It can be in one place one moment, and another place the next. What this has to do with cables, no one has any idea, including the people selling "quantum tunneling enhanced" cables, which pretty much translates to "We're ripping you off because you are gullible enhanced".
    
    

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  • At least I will have tried it, and experienced it....you've done neither. [nt] - alan m. kafton 21:02:40 02/21/08 (1)
    In Reply to: RE: Huge thanks to Scrith and Jim of Oak Creek.... posted by Scrith on February 21, 2008 at 20:58:25

    nt
    
    

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    • You go for it, man! - Scrith 08:17:18 02/22/08 (0)
      In Reply to: RE: At least I will have tried it, and experienced it....you've done neither. [nt] posted by alan m. kafton on February 21, 2008 at 21:02:40

      I'll be happy to try it. And blind test it. As I've done with many USB cables (generic, Belkin Pro, Monster Pro, Cryo Parts, etc.). I own all of those, by the way.

      And I'm not against expensive interconnects and speaker cables...I've auditioned my share, including some very expensive ones by Nordost, the AU24, Kimber, PS Audio, and various Cardas cables. My current setup has Cardas Golden Reference interconnect and speaker cables, by the way, so I am not against spending a few dollars on cables. I have some fancy power cables as well (Cardas, PS Audio, and Black Sand).

      I can hear a very slight difference between analog cables, and that is why I've spent a considerable amount of money on them. I'm not as sure about power cables, but all the ones I have were acquired at a considerable discount (or free).

      Digital cables, on the other hand, are another matter entirely. My experience shows that they either work or they don't work (causing both audible errors and the error light on a DAC to flash, for example). One can acquire a perfect USB cable for $50 or less. $550 is, to repeat myself, ridiculous. And claims about it sounding different are, based on my personal experience, comparable to claims about some magic rock sitting on top of your amplifier resulting in it sounding better.

      To someone from the old school, I can understand that the idea of a cable improving sound is acceptable. But you have to understand how digital works to appreciate the idea that a cable that transmits digital data, aside from being 100% working or not, cannot change the sound. You have to understand that even an inexpensive USB cable must be 100% perfect in its data transmission or there would be no business of selling external hard drives (among many other USB devices). Yes, there are some considerations for very long cables...but nobody here is talking about using USB cables more than 2M long. The information is out there, but I can see where some people have done their cable tests (with analog stuff) and found that some sound better than others (despite many attempts by others to say otherwise) and so they are making the leap of concluding the same must be true for digital cables. But, as I've said, digital data transfer is an entirely different ballgame, my friend. USB itself would not exist if a simple cable were not able to work 100% (not 99.99999999%) of the time.

      P.S. And, to the "experts" out there, please don't turn this into a "but audio is streamed, so it uses a mode different from hard drives which has errors" discussion. Yes, many (but not all) audio devices use the streaming format that is not error checked. But errors will not occur in this format unless there are extraordinary circumstances either (unusually long cables, extreme RFI conditions, lack of basic shielding, etc.), as is the case of non-streamed data. A good device should have some kind of error checking mode (i.e. send 500MB of data with specific test values and/or a checksum and verify that it can be transferred correctly)...if you are a hardware person making a USB device, perhaps you should support some kind of test mode for it to eliminate all the digital cable superstitions once and for all.
      
      

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      Edits: 02/22/08   02/22/08
• Phew... for awhile I thought I was the only one thankful... - RH 17:29:03 02/21/08 (1)
  In Reply to: RE: Huge thanks to Scrith and Jim of Oak Creek.... posted by alan m. kafton on February 21, 2008 at 16:01:51

  ... right under our noses all this time... whoda thunk?
  
  

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  • Indeed....and a happy Nespa to you, Bob! [nt] - alan m. kafton 17:52:21 02/21/08 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: Phew... for awhile I thought I was the only one thankful... posted by RH on February 21, 2008 at 17:29:03

    nt
    
    

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