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cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player

198.54.202.234

cMP

The open source high-end Memory Player

December 2007

Music delivery is perfected. cMP (cics Memory Player) delivers memory playback (without RAMDisk or other utilities) thereby eliminating disk interference during playback. cMP builds handsomely on “The Art of Building (AOB) Computer Transports” version 0.3 where sound is improved (together with more convenience) and costs maintained (~$1500 with case). The case is entirely optional (given its high cost) as any suitable alternative will do thus reducing costs to ~$1200.

AOB Computer Transports version 0.3 is a significant step forward. The challenge in going beyond this is creating version 1.0 which is renamed to cMP. cMP is an open source high-end Memory Player.

In creating cMP, its critical objective was the implementation of fundamental designs that:

Remove disk traffic interference during playback without having the inconvenience of manually loading files into a virtual RAM drive, etc..
Ensure time critical sample delivery to the external DAC. Streaming of samples from precision upsampled (to 24/96) sound buffers to the soundcard must be fast, lean and mean! There’s no room for any bottlenecks or overheads here, otherwise we risk increasing jitter and compromise ‘Bit Transparency’.
Provide better power supply and remove the need for a ferrite core on the mouse connection.
Provide flexibility to choose any player (Foobar2000, Winamp …).
Further minimize the Windows footprint to that more optimal than XP’s Embedded SP2 operating system as used in large scale commercial applications. This provides the foundation for the 2nd design goal.
Offer a CD/DVD-ROM drive without impacting sound quality.
Offer proper remote usability as locating that mouse cursor from a distance is cumbersome.
Contain costs but also allow for a complete elegant one box solution.

Such designs in theory should render a stunning sonic experience. Its implementation however was a massive challenge. Did this theory meet the sonic expectations? Yes as evidenced in cMP’s bit perfect performance and ultra low jitter.

How does it sound? The most descriptive word that comes to mind is emotional. cMP’s sonic purity is truly profound. It grips those musical lines across any genre with remarkable precision. Soundstage improves, there’s better layering and even more ambient information. Bass is tighter, with natural vocals & instruments…

FRONT

BACK

More pictures and screenshots are available from the cMP documentation link provided below.

FEEDBACK

Pre-release testing by music lovers located all over the world yielded further insight and perfection of cMP.

A music lover based in the US with limited or no computer training:

This has been a great way to learn about computers in addition to making something very useful for enjoying music.
…
Compared to my ###### (read expensive high-end traditional CD transport), even with some tweaking and learning left to do, this sounds much better. Dynamic, yet relaxed (effortless?).
…
I started listening last night at 7:00 and had to force myself to go to bed at twelve. Amazing spaciousness. It is truly getting close to GREAT analog and is much better than average analog already. It is simply amazing.

I found your instructions easy to follow ONCE I understood what I was being told to do. To repeat, I have never done anything like this before, so your instructions were clear without resorting to "hand holding". I think the process was easier than you warned. I kept saying to myself, "that wasn't so bad!"

…After cMP:

My only audio friends are very analogue-centric. Sometime in January I am going to have them over to audition the cMP. I think they are going to be amazed. Of course, I am confident that JULI@ is going to be the icing on the cake. If this takes the whole thing another step closer I think they will be grateful that one can enjoy listening to CD's as much as LP's. Of course, in many ways your approach does things even LP's cannot do. It is becoming a toss-up, but the best kind; one can enjoy either one equally well!

A music lover based in Europe with more than 2000 CDs:

…the quality of sound reproduction is quite amazing. My motivation for building was that I am not wealthy and could never dream of, let alone buy, a high-end CD player. Even this project was considerably more than I could properly afford and I began it with some trepidation. But it's been well worth it.

…After cMP:

I spent several hours last night testing the latest cMP. I did several A/B runs with cMP on the one hand and Foobar launched via old batch files and reading direct from disk on the other. There is no doubt in my mind that the sound using cMP is a significant improvement even with my modest setup.
…
The quality is quite stunning, significantly better than previous. (My partner agrees with this - she's no audio junkie but she is an informed music lover.)

A music lover based in Australia:

I have been wanting to relay to you my own experience with your methods and give you some feedback . So far, I have found your approach produces very good results so I must convey to you my thanks and appreciation. At some point soon I will formalise my thoughts and send them to you or post them. I believe what you have done has become an excellent resource/asset to people interested in PC Audio.

FEATURES

Disk traffic interference during playback is eliminated. Advanced RAM playback is based on system’s available physical RAM (as reported by Task Manager or Process Explorer). This means up to 4GB (XP’s limit) can be used allowing for 24/192 RAM playback. Recommendation is to use 1GB RAM (which yields available physical RAM of ~830MB - enough for any CD at 16/44.1). cMP achieves memory playback via the system cache and not through a simulated virtual drive. This approach removes Windows disk I/O overheads (irrespective of whether disk is physical or virtual) hence, it’s more optimal.

Extensive Windows & Player (Foobar2000 or other) optimizations yielding much lower jitter and bit perfect delivery. System level optimizations are done at runtime (which cannot be achieved using .bat files and utilities like Process Explorer). cMP is designed to work with 32 CPU cores! (For now two is enough but, with quad cores becoming available, there’s an opportunity for highly accurate upsampling being done by player’s upsampler component).

Open architecture. cMP allows for any player to be used: Foobar2000, XXHighEnd, Winamp… player just needs to handle .cue files like foobar2000 (otherwise play entire .wav). Any ripper software can be used (as long as it conforms to .cue single file standard – like those created by EAC). Additional flexibility is provided, for example use cMP to drive your HTPC playing any movie from any genre… (a .cue file for each .iso file is needed).

All .cue files are processed by cMP which means the player focuses only on playing the CD. In Foobar2000, the album list control component is not needed. In ‘techno speak’ this is called separation of concerns.

Power delivery to the mobo is improved by further reducing interference. The need for a ferrite core is removed.

Full function remote control using a wireless mouse is achieved. Your entire library can be navigated: play any CD, eject it, jump to any track or change volume. This is achieved using just ONE mouse button: the Wheel! Use the mouse as a normal one (left-click) or hold it in your hand (like a remote control) and wheel away using your thumb. Of course other buttons are used for more convenience. There’s no need to find that tiny mouse cursor and left click! (You can still do this if needed).

Your entire library that you so diligently ripped is fully compatible with cMP. No proprietary / lock-in stuff here which forces you to re-rip. Just point cMP to your music folders containing .cue and .wav files (or flac or other). cMP supports any content file as long as cue files are defined for them. For flac content files, the known EAC bug of adding an additional ‘.flac’ suffix to the content file’s name must be removed (otherwise your cue’s content file directive will not be found).

CD/DVD-ROM drive is implemented without compromising playback quality. For the purist, this can be unplugged without opening computer or rebooting.

Bottom line: cMP is a (one box) highly advanced memory player that’s easy to setup and use. cMP’s core strength lies in newly developed operating system software components (built in c/c++) that uses XP SP 2 as a foundation. Windows Explorer is done away with while cMP takes over and more. Bit perfect delivery is achieved yielding an ultra high resolution of more than 23.5 bits (a limitation in measuring instruments prevents measuring cMP’s perfect resolution). DAC’s have yet to achieve this resolution (as a minimum of 141db SNR is needed)! For cMP’s bit perfect measurements, see (Bit Perfect Measurement & Analysis ).

GETTING STARTED

The cMP Installation Guide & User Manual is the starting point which can be found at (cMP Documentation ). It builds upon version 0.3 which you will also need, see (AOB Computer Transports version 0.3 ). There’s no need to look at previous AudioAsylum.com posts as all necessary items have been incorporated into the cMP Installation Guide! cMP’s most critical ingredient, namely, its operating system software can be downloaded from SourceForge: (cMP Software Installer (820KB) ).

For best results, apply changes as described in version 0.3 and the cMP Installation Guide. Please take note of Installation Guide’s exclusions / changes on page 6 (for version 0.3 paper). Based on setup shown here, sonic improvements are equally significant. Setup includes: Coolermaster Real Power M700W PSU, 2x512MB Kingston HyperX DDR2 RAM, ESI’s Juli@ soundcard (using its latest unified beta software drivers & the Analog PCB removed) and Zalman HD160XT case. cMP settings have Suspend svchost to Yes and Optimize to Critical.

Ensuring clean AC power delivery to equipment is very important. For DAC, pre-amp and amplifiers, use a dedicated AC circuit. For source equipment, use another AC circuit – this is where cMP’s main PSU should be powered from. Use another less important AC circuit for powering cMP’s 2^nd ‘dirty’ power inlet. Use of quality power cords and line conditioners is recommended.

Special thanks to those that provided such brilliant feedback and suggestions during pre-release testing. cMP’s software is at version 1.0b as more feedback is desired. Your input, insights, criticisms, experiences and suggestions all help.

Thank you.

PS - this is a re-post as the original has disappeared. Kindly re-post here.

cMP Documentation (Introduction, Installation Guide & User Manual) (Open in New Window)

Follow Ups:

AHK script used in cMP (cicsRemote.exe) - cics 10:09:12 11/20/09 (0)
cMP's Remote control is explained here . Script below is used in all cMP versions. For further development you'll need to install AHK.

How do you plan to turn display On/Off?

; cMP version 1.0b
; cicsRemote.ahk

#NoTrayIcon
#SingleInstance Force
#HotkeyInterval 2000
#MaxHotkeysPerInterval 200

;Stop
XButton1::
send `;
return

;Stop&Exit OR Default View
XButton2::
send !{f4}
return

;Stop&Exit OR Default View
MButton & LButton::
send !{f4}
return

;Next
RButton::
send ]
return

;Previous OR Navigation Back
MButton & RButton::
send [
return

;Volume up
MButton & WheelUp::
send +{Home}
return

;Volume down
MButton & WheelDown::
send +{End}
return

;Navigation Up
WheelUp::
send {Up}
return

;Navigation Down
WheelDown::
send {Down}
return

;Navigation Forward OR Select Item (OK) OR Stop&Exit (on double-click)
MButton::
if (A_PriorHotkey <> "MButton" or A_TimeSincePriorHotkey > 400)
{
;Too much time between presses, so this isn't a double-press.
KeyWait, MButton
send {enter}
return
}
;MsgBox Double-pressed the Middle Mouse button.
send !{f4}
return

; compile and run script.
P24 current measurements. - hfavandepas 03:37:54 11/18/09 (16)
Hi all,
Reports on which Voltage rail of th eP24 connector draws how much current, where confusing to me. Ryelands suggests that it ‘is essentially a 12-volt device’ but Bertel reports that the 5 Volt rail is ‘the real powerhouse’. So I decided do some measurements myself on which voltage on the P24 connector draws how much current. I post the results of the measurements because they may be of interest or useful for others.
* How the measurements were done.
I toke an P24 extension cable and combined all the:
- orange 3,3 Volt wires on pin: 1, 2, 12, 13.
- red 5 Volt wires on pin: 4, 6, 21, 22, 23.
- yellow 12 Volt wires on pin: 10, 11.
See pictures.

P24 current measurements

I measured a PC setup as per cMP2 hard- and software recommendations. Measurement sessions were done when this PC was running:
- as a standard PC (BIOS with optimized defaults loaded and standard version of XP home running
- and with BIOS and Software optimizations as per cMP2 recommendations
(core speed: 840 Mhz, Mulitiplier: x 6,0: Bus speed: 140 MHz, FSB: 560 Mhz, Memory 1 GB RAM HyperX.

* Results current measurements in Amps
PC running BIOS with Optimized Defaults + Standard XP Home:
-> 12 Volt
BIOS starts system: 0,12
XP booting: 0,12
System running: 0,12
Playing music: 0,12
-> 5 Volt
BIOS starts system: 3,10 (peak: 3,80)
XP booting: 3,37 (peak: 3,57)
System running: 3,30 (peak: 3,30)
Playing music: 3,38 (peak: 3,40)
-> 3,3 Volt
BIOS starts system: 0,30
XP booting: 0,30
System running: 0,30
Playing music: 0,30

PC running in cMP optimized mode:
-> 12 Volt
BIOS starts system: 0,08
XP booting: 0,08
System running: 0,08
Playing music: 0,08
-> 5 Volt
BIOS starts system: 2,90 (peak: 3,50)
XP booting: 2,96 (peak: 3,55)
System running: 3,06 (peak: 3,09)
Playing music: 3,13 (peak: 3,14)
-> 3,3 Volt
BIOS starts system: 0,27
XP booting: 0,27
System running: 0,27
Playing music: 0,27
So the 5 Volt line is indeed ‘the powerhouse’.
With the 5 Volt rail being ‘the powerhouse’ it is somewhat confusing to me, that only optimizing the 12 volt on the P24(with a linear PSU through a specific picoPSU which leaves the 12 volt line untouched) still gives such a worthwhile Sound Quality improvement. (A picoPSU that also regulates the 12 volt line, gives hardly any sound quality improvement over using the standard Earth Watts 430 ATX PSU.)
So still much food for thought. Could it be that this way "PS modulation" & ground effects are largely removed and no longer negatively impact the critical audio chain via P24 as Cics suggests. And what about the big impact on sound quality using low resistance wires between linear PSU and P4 P24 (almost as big as going from ATX PSU to linear PSU). Why do SSD drives sound better than HDD-drives? Do HDD ‘pollute’ the 5Volt environment on the MoBo through the S-ATA connection? Why does the Sound Quality improves when TheoB grounds/earths his PC-case?

fully AOB optimized cMP2 PC -> Lynx AES16 -> XLR AES/EBU -> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300

Edits: 11/18/09
- RE: P24 current measurements. - Bertel 05:01:53 11/18/09 (15)
  Hi Mark,
  
  appreciate the effort, well done!
  
  I can confirm the values you have come up with, my measurements that I repeat quite regularly (last time was only a few days ago) are in the same ballpark - with one exception: my 5V rail draws only 2.47A while playing in optimized cMP mode. Don't know why the difference, my BIOS settings are identical to yours, the only difference in setup being that I use a 256MB ValuRam stick instead of 1GB, but that certainly does not account for that. Different settings in cMP/cPlay, or Lynx driver...? I do 24/192 with SRC 145 to Juli@, buffers 48 and Tiny.
  
  And IMHO you're very right: just optimizing the 12v rail of P24 is good but leaves you ending up halfway at best, the main powerline in case of e.g. a pico still being provided by a switcher, albeit a quite good one. Supplying clean and properly regulated 12v to pico certainly improves and cleans up its working environment, but there's still room for improvement by separately powering the other lines.
  
  Regards,
  Robert
  - RE: P24 current measurements. - hfavandepas 06:55:44 11/18/09 (14)
    Hi Robert,
    
    I checked ALL bios settings carefully. :-( The LAN was still enabled in the BIOS. After I disabled the LAN, playing music still needs 3,00 Amps. So only 0,14 less. No way close to your 2.47 amps.
    
    I also use SRC 145, buffers 48 and also Tiny. But 24/96 because my Lavry Black DA10 can’t go higher than 96. (Dan Lavry wrote a paper somewhere, where he points out that going higher than 96 for playback has no point. Only for recording 24/192 would make sense because of the involved mixing / mastering process thereafter). And I must confess: It’s really, really difficult to hear some difference between 44.1 and 96.
    
    While I was at it, I was curious to know how much extra Amps are needed for other settings.
    I use: DDR2 = 2.0 Volt / FSB = + 0,2 Volt, while cMP2 recommends: DDR2 = 1.8 Volt / FSB = – 0,15V . My overvoltage settings need an extra 0,25 amps on the 5 Volt rail. Much more than I expected.
    
    I still puzzles me why an improvement of ‘a lesser important’ (??) 12V line on the P24 still has that nice impact on sound quality. But I’m even more puzzles and heavily surprised by the BIG (!) impact low resistance wires had on sound quality.
    
    Right now I try to figger out what the best strategy would be for improving the 5 Volt in order to get to me too the next level of Sound Quality. I have done yet al the quick and easy improvements which (hardly) need any soldering skills and no knowledge about electronics.
    - PSU improvements part 1 = linear PSU on P4.
    - PSU improvements part 2 = linear PSU on 12V on P24 (with help of a specific picoPSU model used).
    - PSU improvements part 2.5 = low resistance wire between P4 and picoPSU at P24.(requires only some soldering kills)
    
    Now I’m still thinking on how I can do ‘PSU improvements part 3’ (improvement of the 5 Volt supply) with most effect on Sound Quality, but with only some basic soldering skills and almost no knowledge of electronics present.
    
    As always: many thankx for your thoughts, ideas, input and feedback.
    
    Mark
    
    fully AOB optimized cMP2 PC -> Lynx AES16 -> XLR AES/EBU -> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
    - RE: P24 current measurements. - cics 09:52:08 11/18/09 (9)
      Thanks for sharing those useful measures.
      
      PC running in cMP optimized mode:
      -> 12 Volt
      BIOS starts system: 0,08
      XP booting: 0,08
      System running: 0,08
      Playing music: 0,08
      
      -> 5 Volt
      BIOS starts system: 2,90 (peak: 3,50)
      XP booting: 2,96 (peak: 3,55)
      System running: 3,06 (peak: 3,09)
      Playing music: 3,13 (peak: 3,14)
      
      -> 3,3 Volt
      BIOS starts system: 0,27
      XP booting: 0,27
      System running: 0,27
      Playing music: 0,27
      
      5V line@music would be 2.74 (3.13-0.14-0.25).
      
      Power consumption on P24 would then be 15.6 watts (Robert's yields a lower 13.8 watts).
      
      Have you looked at measures when changing RAM timings, e.g. using 3-2-2-5/6 with 256MB RAM? Would be interesting.
      - results extra current measurements 5 Volt rail of P24 connector - hfavandepas 12:15:27 11/19/09 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: P24 current measurements. posted by cics on November 18, 2009 at 09:52:08
        
        Hi Cics,
        Too eliminated possible PSU setup and connection errors, I re-reconnected the Earth Watts 430 ATX PSU to both the P4 and the P24. So the Earth Watts is the only PSU that is powering everything (as in an of the shelf standard PC situation) while the measurements where done.
        * System
        MoBo: GA - G31M - E S2L, Processor: 7300, soundcard: Lynx AES16 pci (Synchro lock disabled)
        * settings:
        - Software, kernel, registry, service, graphics, etc, ect and BIOS, as per cMP recommendations.
        - MB Intelligent Tweaker (M.I.T.) settings:
        core speed: 840 Mhz, Mulitiplier: x 6,0: Bus speed: 140 MHz, FSB: 560 Mhz
        - cMP / cPlay 32: output: 96K, Buffer: tinny, SCR 145 db, lynx ASIO buffer: 32
        - graphics: 8 bit (600 x 800)
        - RAM: 512 MB HyperX RAM
        I turned my system inside out, but I couldn’t find anything other than a few hidden EMU devices that where in ‘the hidden section’ in the Device Manager. With these settings the lowest possible current on the P24 5 Volt rail in my setup, when XP home is at rest = 2, 79 Amps. (So still not close to Bertels 2,47 Amps). I couldn’t re-run ‘autoruns.exe’ because this doesn’t work when ‘min logon’ finally is installed.
        -> Results current measurements on the 5 volt rail on the P24 (in Amps)
        * 512 MB RAM HyperX
        - Timings in BIOS set to ‘auto’, CPUZ reports: 3-3-3-7
        XP at rest: 2,80
        Playing music: 2,87/88
        - Timings in BIOS manually set to: 3-3-3-5, CPUZ reports: 3-3-3-5.
        XP at rest: 2,79
        Playing music: 2,87
        - Timings in BIOS manually set to: 3-2-2-5, CPUZ reports: 3-3-3-5 (!!!).
        XP at rest: 2,79
        Playing music: 2,87
        
        * 2 x 512 MB RAM HyperX (interleaved mode)
        - Timings in BIOS set to ‘auto’, CPUZ reports: 3-3-3-7
        XP at rest: 2,97
        Playing music: 3,05
        - Timings in BIOS manually set to: 3-3-3-5, CPUZ reports: 3-3-3-5.
        XP at rest: 2,98
        Playing music: 3,06/05
        - Timings in BIOS manually set to: 3-2-2-5, CPUZ reports: 3-3-3-5 (!!!).
        XP at rest: 2,97
        Playing music: 3,05/06
        
        * 1GB RAM HyperX
        - Timings in BIOS set to ‘auto’, CPUZ reports: 3-3-3-7
        XP at rest: 2,85
        Playing music: 2,93
        - Timings in BIOS manually set to: 3-3-3-5, CPUZ reports: 3-3-3-5.
        XP at rest: 2,85
        Playing music: 2,93
        - Timings in BIOS manually set to: 3-2-2-5, CPUZ reports: 3-3-3-5 (!!!).
        XP at rest: 2,86/85
        Playing music: 2,93
        * what timings can be achieved with ‘auto’-setting in BIOS.
        When using the Earth Watts PSU it is not possible to boot at any lower busspeed than 140 mHz. But when using a linear PSU on the P4 and on the picoPSU-150-XT at the P24, then it is possible to (cold) boot at a busspeed of 130 MHz and warm boot at a busspeed of 125 Mhz.
        With bus speeds at 130 Mhz or 125 Mhz and timings in BIOS set to ‘auto’, CPUZ than reports: 3-3-3-6. With BIOS timings set to ‘auto’ is was not possible to reach 3-3-3-5.
        * difference between timings set ‘manually’ and readings in CPUZ.
        When timings were manually set to 3-2-2-5 in BIOS, CPUZ still reports 3-3-3-5. I have no explanation for this. When again checking the BIOS setup screen: 3-2-2-5 was still activated.
        
        fully AOB optimized cMP2 PC -> Lynx AES16 -> XLR AES/EBU -> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
        
        Edits: 11/19/09
        
        RE: results extra current measurements 5 Volt rail of P24 connector - Bertel 12:50:18 11/19/09 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: results extra current measurements 5 Volt rail of P24 connector posted by hfavandepas on November 19, 2009 at 12:15:27
        
        Mark,
        
        impressive measurements, I appriciate that!
        
        Now I have had to make the same expperience - when setting 3-3-3-5 on 256 ValueRam, CPU-Z reported 3-3-3-9 always...
        
        2x512MB HyperX set to 3-3-3-5 results in 2.06A? an impressive value - unfortunately it's interleaved and with two banks creating electrical activity and interference... Well your still not there, your system is circling around 2.9A. What do you have as devoltage values?
        
        Wow, you were able to boot up at 130 and even 125 MHz??? I've got to try that and play with that a bit, that's impressive!
        
        Best,
        Robert
        
        grr a typo. 2,06/05 Amps must be:3,06/05 Amps - hfavandepas 13:40:13 11/19/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: results extra current measurements 5 Volt rail of P24 connector posted by Bertel on November 19, 2009 at 12:50:18
        
        Thankx for your response. unfortunately it’s a typo. 2,06/05 must be: 3,06/05.
        
        Yes my system is still circling around 2,9 amps on the 5 volt rail at the P24 connector
        I went to great lengths in controlling and checking if everything and all value’s were set like the recommendations as described in http://cplay.sourceforge.net/. FSB de-voltage is at – 0,15 V (as recommended).
        
        Since I use linear PSU’s to power the picoPSU-150-XT at the P24 and the P4, I discovered that it’s possible to cold boot at 130 Mhz busspeed and warm boot at 125 Mhz busspeed. However 130 Mhz is to slow for upsampling. Booting at 125 MHz into a normal XP installation is impossible. You than will crash into a BSOD. At 125 MHZ you can only boot into an XP installation that is 100% optimized as per cMP recommendations.
        
        fully AOB optimized cMP2 PC -> Lynx AES16 -> XLR AES/EBU -> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
        
        Very useful RAM measurements indeed - cics 02:16:12 11/20/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: grr a typo. 2,06/05 Amps must be:3,06/05 Amps posted by hfavandepas on November 19, 2009 at 13:40:13
        
        Thanks Mark.
        
        Using a single RAM module with smallest capacity offers lowest power consumption. Faster timings for 512RAM have ~5mA impact (on the lower consumption side: 2,87/88 vs 2.87 continuous). I certainly wasn't expecting this and would've been happy to go with same current. From a theoretical viewpoint, faster timings without any penalties, could potentially lower jitter. This is how I see it: if data streamed to soundcard happens slightly faster then we have less interference to its XO. I'll do some tests at 3-2-2-5/6 (I prefer keeping settings for a few days at a time). Big assumption here is both 12V and 3.3V lines remain unchanged - did you confirm this?
        
        Reason for your higher 5V consumption over Robert's is the Lynx. It's more complicated, uses different chips and offers more channels than Juli@.
        
        2,87/88 versus 2,87. I only used a simple the multi-meter - hfavandepas 03:40:04 11/20/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Very useful RAM measurements indeed posted by cics on November 20, 2009 at 02:16:12
        
        Hi Cics,
        
        Thank you for your feedback.
        
        2,87/88 versus 2,87.
        Is it really relevant with the multimeter I used? It is not a professional one.
        It's a Velleman multimeter DVM68 of 30 euro's for home/hobby use.
        I don't know anything about it's stability, hysteresis and bias.
        About accuracy the manual reports: basic DC current accuracy: ±1.2% (±2.0% for 10A range)
        
        I wil re-do the measurements with 512 RAM HyperX at different timings again, but than also measure the current on the 12V and 3,3 V.
        
        For what it’s worth:
        Yesterday for measurement reason’s, I powered the cMP PC setup only with the Earth Watts 430 ATX PSU. It struck me somewhat that the sound quality wasn’t that much less, than I had expected it to be, from what I could remember when using the Juli@ with different PSU types. It sounded somewhat ‘digital’ again: ‘grainy’, ‘sandy’ and ‘the digital highs’ where back. But still, I’m under the impression that the Juli@ is more sensitive for swapping from an ATX PSU to a linear PSU, than the Lynx AES16 is.
        I can’t check this back anymore because I sold my Juli@ one month a go. But from what I can remember: the positive effect on sound quality when using a linear PSU with the juli@ appears to be bigger, than when using the Lynx AES16. Or said the other way round: the Lynx AES16 seems less sensitive for type of PSU used.
        
        fully AOB optimized cMP2 PC -> Lynx AES16 -> XLR AES/EBU -> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
        
        RE: 2,87/88 versus 2,87. I only used a simple the multi-meter - cics 10:18:40 11/20/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: 2,87/88 versus 2,87. I only used a simple the multi-meter posted by hfavandepas on November 20, 2009 at 03:40:04
        
        Earthwatts: You would get more improvement if using main ATX for P24 only. Your other ATX would power P4.
        
        On 5V measurements, we can conclude that RAM timings does not adversely affect power consumption (no more than 35mA).
      - RE: P24 current measurements. - theob 06:21:56 11/19/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: P24 current measurements. posted by cics on November 18, 2009 at 09:52:08
        
        Do I understand correctly that 3 2 2 5/6 are feasible and possibly sonically desirable with the stock cmp^2 setup?
        
        RE: P24 current measurements. - hfavandepas 13:48:55 11/19/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: P24 current measurements. posted by theob on November 19, 2009 at 06:21:56
        
        Hi Theo,
        
        Yes in my setup is possible to manually set 3-2-2-5.
        
        But do I hear a sound quality improvement ? I’m not sure if I hear any.
        
        Mark
        
        fully AOB optimized cMP2 PC -> Lynx AES16 -> XLR AES/EBU -> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
      - I gladly do some extra measurements - hfavandepas 11:25:01 11/18/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: P24 current measurements. posted by cics on November 18, 2009 at 09:52:08
        
        Hi Cics,
        
        I would gladly to do some extra measurements. Since I now have a special modified P24 extension cable ready for that, it’s no big deal to swap in and out place between the picoPSU.
        
        But before I do some extra measurements, I first want to trace down how it is possible that my current measurements differ so much ( 2,47 A <-> 3.0 A) from those that Bertel did.
        I don’t think my multi-meter is bad or broke. So I first want to check al settings in the BIOS (which I already did) and check the numerous XP tweaks and suggested XP fine tuning. Give me a day or two.
        
        I only have a 2x 512 MB RAM HyperX and 2x 1 GB HyperX DDR2 memory modules at hand. But I will do some comparison measurements with those modules on suggested RAM timings.
        
        Measurements done, where taken at 3-3-3-5 RAM timings (manual set) with 512 Mb HyperX DRR2 RAM
        
        I will get back to you on this soon.
        
        Mark
        
        fully AOB optimized cMP2 PC -> Lynx AES16 -> XLR AES/EBU -> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
    - RE: P24 current measurements. - Bertel 07:13:55 11/18/09 (3)
      Mark,
      
      yes right, I forgot your overvoltage settings that I had read about in your recent thread. Amazing that this results in such a substantial increase in power consumption on the 5v rail.
      
      Well, on your 'PSU improvements part 3': Now that you have optimized your pico already, I'm afraid there's nothing much you can do to optimize 5v when leaving the pico in place, at least I don't see it. The next step IMHO really would always have to involve taking out the pico and supplying three separate voltage rails externally (linear, battery, in whatever configuration). And unless you use some module to do the timing and ramp up stuff to power up right (provided there is one which I belive is the case, I just haven't managed to track it down) this has to involve switching over from ATX to linear or similar after booting. I would not consider it too complicated, there's info and documents how to do this, but it surely involves soldering and a bit of electronic knowledge, and some courage ;-) You see there's a reason why almost nobody (at least as far as I can see, I'd love to be corrected) has taken that step to surpass pico and power P24 rails independently...
      
      I can't think of any more useful or encouraging news, maybe others can look at it from different angles and come up with a promising way that I haven't seen?
      
      Best,
      Robert
      - RE: P24 current measurements. - hfavandepas 08:56:17 11/18/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: P24 current measurements. posted by Bertel on November 18, 2009 at 07:13:55
        
        Hi Robert,
        
        Looking at the possibilities to optimize the 5 Volt, I also look at ‘the consumers’ of the 5 Volt. I look at it from a balanced sink <-> source perspective and how they influence each other. ‘Sinks / consumers’ of the 5 voltage are: the MoBo and the Juli@ soundcard. So, with a ‘high quality’ 5 volt source I could supply:
        
        1. Only the Juli@ soundcard (with PCI power supply traces cut).
        (bypassing the MoBo)
        
        2. only the Mobo.
        (which than also supply’s the Juli@ soundcard when PCI power supply traces are NOT cut)
        
        3. separately supplying the Mobo + the juli@ soundcard (with PCI power supply traces cut)
        
        Until now option 1. supplying a Juli@ soundcard (with PCI power supply traces cut) looks much easier than option 2: the Mobo stuff with the use of switches/relays ect.
        
        But I can only makes a good judgement between option 1 and option 2, if I also know which ‘effort needed’ yields the most Sound Quality improvement. That’s why I asked (in an other thread) if it where possible to rank the sound quality improvements. But I still can spend some time on finding out. PSU improvements Part 3 will only start somewhere in spring 2010.
        
        Mark
        
        N.B. with al cMP2 BIOS settings + windows XP tunning/tweaks (incl min logon) applied my MoBo (GA-G31M-ES2L) it still needs 3.0 Amp while playing music. With both over-voltages in place, it even uses a wapping 3,25 Amps. I will have another close look, because I find the difference 2,47 <-> 3.0 very big.
        
        fully AOB optimized cMP2 PC -> Lynx AES16 -> XLR AES/EBU -> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
        
        RE: P24 current measurements. - Bertel 09:21:36 11/18/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: P24 current measurements. posted by hfavandepas on November 18, 2009 at 08:56:17
        
        Mark,
        
        I strongly recommend to cut (or just mask if you will) the PCI traces to Juli@, unsolder the regulator U1 (no big deal, really) and supply it externally with clean 3v3 and 5v (remember that only the analog part of Juli@ plus one or two chips consume very little current on the 5v rail, the vast majority are 3v3 consumers!) - you're isolating Juli@ from all interferences, noise etc. coming from the mobo's voltage rails plus supply good quality power in addition - little effort gives you maximum return! In terms of return on effort invested as well as in achievable sonic improvement, I'd say this is clearly priority #1! The results at least in my system (when also adjusting voltages externally supplied to exactly match those on the mobo) were in order of magnitudes above most others I had done.
        
        Best,
        Robert
        
        Thank you for helping making the choice: option 1 it will be than - hfavandepas 09:51:30 11/18/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: P24 current measurements. posted by Bertel on November 18, 2009 at 09:21:36
        
        Hi Robert,
        
        You make things easy. Thank you for the advice. So option 1. it will be.
        
        1. Only the Juli@ soundcard (with PCI power supply traces cut). (bypassing the MoBo)
        
        I think it’s also the most cost effective one.
        
        As other inmates reports very good results with battery power, I’m even prepared to take a close look at ‘battery power’. :-)
        
        Mark
        
        fully AOB optimized cMP2 PC -> Lynx AES16 -> XLR AES/EBU -> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
* NEW * Alternative approach to CPU (P4) power supply - cics 04:48:08 11/15/09 (10)
CPU (P4) power supply has seen improvements through the use of a dedicated 12V linear PS or the addition of smoothing capacitors. Most found this optimisation to yield excellent resuts.

This new and simpler approach is not available on the cMP² site. More testing is needed from others. On reviewing Gigabyte's (GA-G31M-S2L) mobo manual, it describes its P4 implementation as follows:

"... The 12V power connector mainly supplies power to the CPU. If the 12V power connector is not connected, the computer will not start."

If it "mainly supplies" power to the CPU, what else then? After testing with another mobo, it seems this is limited to fans (esp CPU fan). This is great news as we can treat the CPU as another "dirty" component (for example the HDD).

Idea:

Replace Grannite Digital (GD) PS' with one "dirty" ATX PSU. That is cMP² now has 2 ATX PSUs. This "dirty" PSU powers all "dirty" peripherals as before (as was done by the GD PS') and the CPU.

Procedure:
1. Source a 2nd ATX PSU - preferably a good low noise one (Antec Earthwatts remains a good choice). Make sure you have power a switch on the PSU.
2. Shutdown & disconnect all power.
3. Remove GD PS' and wiring,
4. "Dirty" ATX PSU sits either atop or aside your cMP². All DC power cables are run through a spare rear slot (remove screw and plate).
5. Remove current "clean" P4 connector and replace with "dirty" P4.
6. Connect all other "dirty" components (alternate USB ports, touch screen, ROM drive, HDDs/SSDs, ...).
7. Check that "clean" ATX power ONLY supplies P24 (mobo).
8. On the "dirty" P24 connector, hard wire it to permanently stay on . I used the end of a metal paper clip (which makes a nice "U" pin). Pins connect green and black wires of P20/P24 connector and is thereafter insulation taped.
9. Connect AC power to "dirty" ATX ("clean" ATX remains off). Switch on.
  
  You should see all your "dirty" peripherals come on. If there's no power, the ATX PSU is most likely not seeing enough load to turn on. I had to add a ROM drive to overcome this issue (ROM drive is not connected to mobo). Bad connections could be another cause for no power.
10. Connect power to "clean" ATX and turn on. Test playback, etc..
11. If you intend to recycle power, shutdown as normal, then turn off "dirty" ATX. For startup, ALWAYS power up "dirty" ATX first.
Results:

After a few hours of playback, there was a tangible amount of improvement - more air and richer mids. Musicality factor of cPlay 2.0b32 improves even further...
- Are switchers a bit of a turn off? - Ryelands 04:43:03 11/16/09 (1)
  Idea: Replace Granite Digital (GD) PS' with one "dirty" ATX PSU. That is cMP² now has 2 ATX PSUs. This "dirty" PSU powers all "dirty" peripherals as before (as was done by the GD PS') and the CPU.
  cics’s post confirm yet again that PCs dedicated to music replay respond well even to modest improvements in the supply and distribution of power to their components.
  The topic has been discussed at length on AA with suggestions ranging from the absurdly simple (smoothing the P4 line) to the intimidatingly complex (an all-battery system with power-on sequencing and elaborate soundcard mods).
  However, all but the most rudimentary of a hierarchy of designs (see www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/53957.html ) call for some competence in electronics and access to specialised tools. Many would-be users have neither.
  It is a merit of the core cMP^2 design that it uses stock components and can be built by those with few constructional skills. However, although the proposed upgrade using two ATX PSUs maintains that low-skill approach (and gets switchers and mains power out of the case), it doesn’t follow that it is the best solution even for those without access to core skills.
  In my opinion and with all due respect, even before plugging in a stray CD-ROM drive (or a few power resistors?) to keep switchers switching, it’s entry-level at best. In fact, it’s a bit of a kludge.
  I’ll try to explain why I think that but would first like to clarify a couple of basic points.
  ** A 4-pin, 12-volt connector (the P4 or Pentium 4 line) was added to the ATX spec in February 2000 to power the CPU. If manufacturers now use it to power other components, they are arguably wandering off spec. Despite what it says in the manuals, I doubt that P4 powers anything on Gigabyte motherboards other than the processor and perhaps its cooling fan. As a cMP^2 system typically has no fans, it’s reasonable to assume that it powers only the CPU.
  ** ATX spec revisions in 2003 inter alia acknowledged that nowadays most power is required on the 12 V rails: power on 3.3 V and 5 V rails was reduced and -5 V was scrapped. As www.silentpcreview.com explained in 2005:
  The high reliance of current systems on the 12V is dramatic compared to even just a couple of years ago and the evolution of the ATX12V spec reflects this change. Almost any system assembled from current components will draw the vast majority of current from 12V, in some cases, as much as 90% at load. (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article28-page2.html )
  In short, a modern motherboard is essentially a 12-volt device even if it needs power-sequencing circuitry and a couple of ancilliary lines.
  (For anyone sad enough, like me, to find these arcane topics mildly interesting, Intel specs are the official source but material on Wiki and elsewhere is more readable.)
  ++++
  1. I have difficulty with the concept of the CPU as a “dirty” device that can be powered with impunity from a noisy source. First, sound quality is widely recognised as being improved at least as much by smoothing P4 as P24, arguably more. Second, there is no evidence to hand that a polluted P4 line will not pollute the supply to other, perhaps more noise-sensitive, devices. Separate SMPSs may to an extent mask that but it does not follow that they are the optimal solution.
  2. The power demand of an under-clocked, small-format motherboard with a 45nm CPU is modest – typically under 25 watts. Allowing for accidental reversion to default BIOS settings, a 3-amp, 12-volt linear supply is likely to be adequate and a 5-amp one certainly is.
  There may well be SMPS designs with better noise specs than off-the-shelf linear units but not ATX ones. The experience of several builders of cMP^2 and other systems is that a half-way decent linear supply outperforms even the best ATX designs in this context.
  3. A Pico-PSU designed for use with a 12-volt regulated supply (i.e. not for car batteries) uses switching only for ancilliary lines. Even without additional smoothing (à la Greg), they are reported as bettering conventional ATX units. ( See: htttp://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=pcaudio&n=47156 .)
  A 12-volt “laboratory”-style PSU driving the P4 line directly and some P24 lines via a Pico PSU requires virtually no constructional skills to implement, costs much the same as two decent SMPSs and will comfortably outperform them . (Just about any 5-volt linear supply will perform as well as a Granite Digital switcher, perhaps better, for the “dirty” kit.)
  Of course, one ideal would be to get a PCB laid out for John Swenson’s low RFI, low ripple design. Offers?
  Just a few thoughts - sorry to go on for so long . . .
  Dave
  
  Edits: 11/16/09 11/16/09
  - Why shouldn't we treat the CPU as a dirty device? - cics 09:18:05 11/18/09 (0)
    If CPU power supply is isolated to just P4, using the approach suggested should be fine. So far my tests confirm this. CPU signaling to Northbridge is very important but this we control via software!
    
    I'm suggesting an additional ATX over 1 or more GDs. It seems we don't need an expensive high powered ATX either but for an elegant in-box solution, one could try this:
    
    Sparkle FSP300-601U would fit internally and may require less load to turn on. Note that it offers a P20 instead of a P24 connector.
    
    I was very pleased to learn that GB mobos don't use P24 for the CPU.
    
    Of course, using linear PSUs is the best way forward.
- RE: * NEW * Alternative approach to CPU (P4) power supply - Bertel 08:56:02 11/15/09 (7)
  cics,
  I'm not sure if I understand your recommendation correctly...
  Your quote of the MoBo manual clearly states that P4 mainly powers the CPU. Maybe a few other components as well, but it seems as if we currently don't know which and to what extent. Nevertheless, the primary consumer of the current supplied through P4 surely is the CPU. Now if we consider this "dirty" and bundle it up on one line together with HDD, USB etc., we heavily "pollute" power supplied to the CPU, don't we? That cannot really be the target for improving power supply to our cMP system IMHO...
  You surely make a very valid point that we should separate PSUs for P24 and P4, so if inmates only want to use ATX supplies, a good idea indeed can be to add a second ATX PSU for P4 while the first one only powers P24 - but why not keep the Granite(s)? Greg/GStew btw has already shown that even improving on these "dirty" supplies has a positive effect on overall system performance.
  Many of us already e.g. use separate linear supplies or batteries for P4 and P24 (e.g. powering a picoPSU or supplying directly to P24) and a "dirty" supply for the truly "dirty" consumers like HDD and USB etc. But I find it hard to understand that taking away more or less clean power from P4 and making it one of the "dirty" consumers could be beneficial.
  Have you compared 1 x ATX PSU for P4 plus 1 x ATX PSU for P24 plus 1 (or several) x Granite(s) for "dirty" consumer(s) versus 1 x ATX PSU for "dirties" and P4 plus 1 x ATX PSU for P24 and found the latter to be superior?
  Thank you,
  Robert
  
  Edits: 11/15/09 11/15/09
  - RE: * NEW * Alternative approach to CPU (P4) power supply - cics 11:37:09 11/15/09 (6)
    Good points.
    
    I'm looking to change our "base" design to 2 ATXs instead of 1 ATX and a few GDs. This way we reduce wiring needed and don't need any "Y" splitters. Also, we don't suffer from PS limitations (compared to GD where you must be under 2A). However, if you already use a dedicated PS for P4, this change will not be useful and should be ignored.
    
    What triggered this design was reports on how sound improved when powering P4 separately. Are we getting improvement from better PS to CPU or is it that we have largely removed its "PS modulation" & ground effects that negatively impacts the critical audio chain (via P24)? My sense is the latter. This question grew larger with hfavandepas' 12V linear+pico implementation. Given that the pico also suffers from ATX like ripple noise, a normal ATX should do. Pico 150XT which passes linear 12V input untouched will likely be better.
    
    My understanding of how P4 is used in the GB mobo suggests its limited to CPU and fans. There may be other components and if they were critical, sound quality would be worse. It's not.
    
    It may seem strange that a "dirty" P4 works so well given that the CPU is tightly coupled to the audio chain. The reason is largely to do with soundcards interacting indirectly with the CPU. For audio streaming, it only sees RAM via the southbridge chipset. Another key factor is how well the CPU / Northbridge interface is significantly de-stressed. This seems to make the twin ATX package work very well.
    - RE: * NEW * Alternative approach to CPU (P4) power supply - Bertel 12:01:44 11/15/09 (5)
      cics,
      for the recommended "base" setup this is certainly good to start with, especially given your explanation on how little influence the CPU has during audio streaming (I wasn't aware of this and that the focus here is mainly on the southbridge chipset - would be great if we could improve its working environment, e.g. by adding caps to its voltage pins etc., but that's a bit tricky I suppose...).
      Over the course of this year I have improved my system also hardware-wise step by step to a point where I use only batteries plus caps during playback, separate ones for P4 as well as P24 (no picoPSU or similar switching PSUs but battery power separately for every voltage rail) as well as for Juli@ and Buffalo DAC. Optimizing on P4 and P24 always brought little but pleasant improvements step by step - but I have to state very clearly that IMHO almost dramatic improvements can be achieved when further focusing on Juli@ (as we know already from the mods Alfred/sonics and Greg/Gstew made).
      Powering Juli@ externally is a HUGE step as we know already for some time. There are two Juli@ versions, one only needs additional 5V for sample rates 176 and 192, the other at all SRs for clock timing. As Greg/Gstew has already pointed out cutting the PCI traces for all voltage input ensures that only the clean external voltages are present on Juli@, separating it even further from detrimental external influence.
      In the past couple of days I had to learn how crucial even smallest variations are when you power Juli@ externally - it's a bit like open heart surgery, there's no more regulators and smoothing caps and different circuits having their influences, but you directly without any filters inject current in Juli@'s circuits, and parameters like voltage levels (3.25V instead of the nominal 3.33V as well as 4.85V instead of 5.00V seem to work best), output impedance of the current source, purity of power supplied etc. IMHO have a MASSIVE influence on sonics and sound quality - in my setup even small changes to these parameters had a much more noticeable and revealing influence on overall sonics than any other improvements mentioned above. I'm still in the process of testing and identifying and pinning down, as Greg/Gstew had mentioned before shunt regulators probably will be an excellent choice for powering Juli@ directly, that's next, will report as soon as I get there and have reliable and tested results :-)
      Sorry for rambling, just wanted to put the relevance and effect of the various mods into the overall picture, at least as I see it ;-)
      Best,
      Robert
      
      Edits: 11/15/09
      - 'ranking' bypassing the MoBo - hfavandepas 05:27:10 11/16/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: * NEW * Alternative approach to CPU (P4) power supply posted by Bertel on November 15, 2009 at 12:01:44
        
        Hi Bertel,
        
        Since you PRACTICE (!) a lot of power supply improvements to the cMP2 setup, you might be able to shed some light on to the following question.
        
        I would like to know the degree in (potential) sound quality improvement between: supply chain 2 and supply chain 3:
        
        - Supply chain 1: original chain.
        source: 5 volt ‘high quality power’ -> P24 5Volt input connector on MoBo -> MoBo to PCI -> circuit board of soundcard -> ‘sink’ components on soundcard (who need the supplied 5V)
        
        - Supply chain 2: MoBo is bypassed.
        source: 5 volt ‘high quality power’ -> circuit board of soundcard -> ‘sink’ components on soundcard (who need the supplied 5V).
        
        - Supply chain 3: MoBo + (parts of) circuit board of soundcard are bypassed.
        source: 5 volt ‘high quality power’ -> ‘sink’ components on soundcard (who need the supplied 5V)
        
        I realise that it’s very hard to communicate about sound quality improvements in words, but I still would like too get an impression by description, because it’s better than no communication at all. May be it’s helpful to rank sound quality improvements as I (subjectively) experience them in my setup. I would scale/index them very ROUGHLY like this:
        - linear PSU on P4: +90
        - Low resistance wire (6AWG or similar) from linear PSU to both P4 and picoPSU/P24: +90 (*)
        - Linear PSU on 12 volt rail on P24 through (specific) picoPSU model: +30
        - smoothing caps on a switching ATX PSU: +20
        - combined optimizations: XP, Kernel and BIOS: +15 <-> + 20
        - various releases of cPlay - 2 <-> +4
        
        Is it possible to say where in the above ranking roughly would be:
        - by passing the MoBo (chain 2) with ‘high quality power’ from a linear PSU?
        
        I don’t like soldering to my Lynx AES16 or Lynx L22 sound card. But I think I can manage to bypass the MoBo (with help of a PCI riser-card or something. don’t know yet)
        
        (*)
        Untill now no other inmates tried out or gave feedback on changing 18AWG wire between a linear PSU and the P4 / P24 for a wire type with much less resistance (6AWG or similar).
        Probably many inmates consider me being an honoured member of ‘the ministry of silly tweaks’. :-) But I’m far from that. If I hadn’t tried it myself, I would be very much in favour of Ryelands comments on it. Http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=pcaudio&n=54333&highlight=sums+Ryelands&r=
        But because you suggested I decided to give it a try. So thank you for the suggestion, because it made (very much too my surprise !! ) a very big improvement.
        
        fully AOB optimized cMP2 PC -> Lynx AES16 -> XLR AES/EBU -> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
        
        RE: 'ranking' bypassing the MoBo - Dawnrazor 08:51:39 11/19/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: 'ranking' bypassing the MoBo posted by hfavandepas on November 16, 2009 at 05:27:10
        
        H,
        
        I thought I had replied about your 6g wire tweak, but cant find the post.
        
        Are you sure it is not the braiding that helps in sound more than the wire gauge??
        
        Most likely I corrected – without knowing- some mismatch or sub-optimal situation. - hfavandepas 10:32:05 11/19/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: 'ranking' bypassing the MoBo posted by Dawnrazor on November 19, 2009 at 08:51:39
        
        Thank you for responding.
        
        I really don’t have a clou of why it does sound much better. Most likely I corrected – without knowing- some mismatch or sub-optimal situation in my setup. (re-connected wires the right way, re-plugged all the gear in the correct way, ect)
        
        I strongly favour Reylands post on this. http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=pcaudio&n=54333&highlight=sums+Ryelands&r=
        
        But I still would like to know if I accidentally corrected something in my setup for the better without knowing. That’s why I decided to ask other inmates on the AA-forum if they can repeat this and report their findings back to the forum (too try this, one doesn’t need much soldering skills).
        
        I was hoping that a few inmates would try this in their setup. If they would report that it didn’t made any difference in Sound Quality for the better in their setup, than I know for sure that I must have accidentally corrected something in my setup for the better without knowing.
        
        But until now I haven’t got any feedback from inmates who tried it.
        
        fully AOB optimized cMP2 PC -> Lynx AES16 -> XLR AES/EBU -> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
        
        RE: 'ranking' bypassing the MoBo - Bertel 06:29:59 11/16/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: 'ranking' bypassing the MoBo posted by hfavandepas on November 16, 2009 at 05:27:10
        
        Hi Mark,
        
        thanks for asking, I'll try to produce something meaningful on this issue - but I'm afraid the answer is not so straightforward... ;-)
        
        Those of us that use the ESI Juli@ soundcard are in a very comfortable position when it comes to judging which solution is best - we unsolder the on-board regulator (5-> 3.3V), cut the respective traces on the PCI connector that carry in the voltages from the MoBo, feed Juli@ with clean 3.3V and 5v lines, and we're there. Juli@ has dedicated input/output points (kind of little "drill holes") that are wonderfully suited to take this external voltage supply.
        
        I currently use a Juli@ too but have used a Lynx AES16 before. I have just taken my now obsolete Lynx in my hands and am looking at it - and especially when comparing it with Juli@, it's so §$%§& complex, and sadly this is a complexity that for the most part we don't need... It is an excellent piece of engineering, but I have a hard time identifying a good injection point for clean external power. Ok, there are SMD devices that look like input rail smoothing caps to me, labelled C50 and C51 (far left front side down at the PCI connector) and C52 (far right side), from what I see those could potentially do the job. You also had to take care of 3.3V and +/-12V. While poking around with my multimeter I saw that the PCI traces for these voltages are connected on the board but couldn't find chips that would share that connection. This of course needs more work and thorough analysis. But overall I would say that I do not see why it shouldn't be possible to power at least the whole card with clean external voltages. I personally would prefer cutting traces and soldering regs directly to the board. One next step would be to further identify regulators further "downstream" that do additional regulation, and eventually inject here. But this is open heart surgery ;-)
        
        So since you say you could imagine using a riser card or something similar, i think that goes without bloodshed ;-) and should be easily doable - give it a try!
        
        Do I understand you correctly that solution 3 would be to inject external power directly to the chips or parts of the soundcard? This is complex and challenging and would take a lot of analysis, including soldering then of course, but indeed would be very elegant, since then you maybe could shut of whole parts of the card that are not needed by cMP2 which would be great! But to call that "advanced" would be a massive understatement... ;-)
        
        So apart from my estimation that solution 2 (at least for a start) is the only feasible and viable, here's my judgement od the effect of such an operation: when I did this to my Juli@, i.e. cut the PCI traces, unsoldered the on-board reg, connected clean 3.3V and 5v lines (battery plus cap/resistor plus reg) to the respective onboard connectors, the effect was not subtle at all but in an order of magnitudes. See, by doing that we (i) isolate the soundcard from all the powerline "pollution" on the MoBo, and (ii) feed it with dedicated clean power, thus massively increasing the stability and purity of its working environment. Ok, a card like the Lynx creates its own mess and pollution through its complexity and all that stuff that's onboard and working, so maybe the effect is a bit less, but you could think of adding caps and replacing regs (see Greg/Gstew mods to Juli@) and further improve.
        
        So again: I would expect a top-of-the-ranking improvement. The more regs and caps you can replace or upgrade, the more you can add to this improvement. And as you already suggest: the first step is simple, get yourself a riser card, identify which voltages are really needed, and replace them with external ones (that's how Alfred/sonics had proceeded when developing the Juli@ PSU mod). in a next step you then could follw the way the current takes and improve upon its lines. Give it a try, IMHO you can't loose! :-)
        
        Good luck!
        Robert
      - RE: * NEW * Alternative approach to CPU (P4) power supply - theob 16:10:41 11/15/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: * NEW * Alternative approach to CPU (P4) power supply posted by Bertel on November 15, 2009 at 12:01:44
        
        For those who wish to learn please listen to Bertel. As Cics is the king of the audiophile software, Bertel is the king of audiophile hardware. He is not saying but he has singlehandedly solved the metallic/static noise issue of a juli@/cmp^2 based system. He has helped me tremendously with tweaking my hardware to optimum results. It is not easy to implement a a total battery powered system and I don't recommend it for the feint of heart. I approached it but was limited by my soldering skills. But for those that want to achieve this, it is possible.
        
        A fine young man not too disimilar from Cics in his knowledge of these pc audiophile matters and willingness to help others.
RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player - Windows X 10:50:58 11/08/09 (0)
cics, could you please add album art browsing using folder.jpg in located cue folder?

For cMP, Ones in MediaMonkey is good example but I just want simple ones. There're Genre/Artist already so one extra button for AlbumArt and show folder.jpg with artist and album info below.

For cPlay, Add album info panel below songlist containing album art, artist, album, genre, and year.

I know this may sound a bit too demanding but this would make a lot of people happily using it. I wanted to update ones myself but there's no code for contribution.
voltage settings and resolution - play-mate 18:49:36 11/07/09 (0)
dear cMP fans,

getting a little closer every week....to that magical liquid and effortless digital reproduction, that this equally magical project is all about.
as things a getting better, I´ve noticed that a some demanding recordings or certain passages are being slightly "pressured". most problematic are large orchestra crecendo´s and complex passages with voice(s), where tonal liquidity is suffering resolution and maybe a slight distortion sets in.
previously I´ve thought it was the recording itself, but I come to suspecting the BIOS settings may be too low on certain channels.

have anyone similar observations ?

input very welcome !
RE: cMP - Gigabyte mainboard problem - alba63 13:37:10 10/31/09 (11)
Hello, having found out about cMP only a few months ago, I was quite interested and finally built a running system.

My last attempt included the recommended Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L with ESI Juli etc.

The sytem was ready and running, and sounding amazingly good, all the recommended tweakings were applied, including Minlogon, then I tried to lower the cpu voltage in the BIOS from 0.85V (running fine) to 0.80V.
When - in the "MB Intelligent Tweaker (M.I.T.)" menu of the BIOS I had changed the value to 0.80V the confirmation prompt (n/y) appeared, but the keyboard did not seem to react or transmit the keystroke "Y". I also noticed some flickering on the screen. So I just made a reboot without trying to confirm the new setting, but after reboot my screen remained black. No entering Setup was possible. Keyboard LED also remains black etc.

Question:
- Can the attempt to lower cpu voltage below the least stable value (for Windows) damage the Motherboard?
- How can I make the sytem boot into the BIOS, or reset the BIOS to default values?

- or simply what can I do from now on?

I am really frustrated because everything seemed to work so fine, and the sound was far beyond what I knew from computer sound....

Thanks for any useful advice....

Bernhard
- RE: cMP - Gigabyte mainboard problem - Audio Bling 15:14:10 10/31/09 (10)
  This problem will occur if you lower CPU voltage excessively or without sufficient “burn in”. It does not damage the motherboard. I recall Dawnrazor posted some info on this problem and its correction a short time ago; it would be worth your while to look that post up.
  
  Essentially, you will need to reset the CMOS which will allow you to boot and re-establish your BIOS settings. (See mobo manual if you don’t know how to do this.) However, this time don’t go so far as to drop to 0.80V. Give it a week or so of use at say, 0.85V to burn in before attempting to lower CPU voltage again. Be aware that you might not be able to go below 0.80V as there seems to be some variability in what people can get to. (I have gotten down to 0.79375 @ 150MHz.)
  
  Hope this helps.
  - RE: cMP - Gigabyte mainboard problem - Dawnrazor 16:27:25 10/31/09 (0)
    Hey AB,
    
    I can kind of get cics .75 v and 840mhz setting. Just not from a cold boot.
    
    The best has been 900mhz and .85 v at cold start up so far. But that happens intermittently.
    
    I ran it at 2.8ghz and 1.35 v for a few days and while that seemed to help, the lowest ones are still far away. ANd I did have a ceiling fan on when running 2.8ghz just in case, but still 35c was the highest temp IIRC. The top wasn't on either.
    
    What I have noticed is that now it just seems to leave everything alone when it cant boot and resets only the
  - RE: cMP - Gigabyte mainboard problem - alba63 15:42:06 10/31/09 (8)
    Aaaaahhhh! What a relief. Your posting is full of great info and very helpful. I checked the manual indeed and all one has to do is to short 2 pins on the Mobo with a screwdriver, then the cmos is reset.
    
    Thank you very much indeed. I will not go lower than 0.85 for a while now. Then I try in very small steps.
    
    Bernie
    - RE: cMP - Gigabyte mainboard problem - DeDe 03:53:12 11/01/09 (7)
      I’ve not been able to get a reliable cold boot at anything less than 200MHz and 1v, despite a couple of months of burn-in. What I can do is to use the Gigabyte EasyTune utility to reduce the voltage as low as 0.8v after I have successfully booted.
      
      It would perhaps be nice if there was a utility that allowed conservative bios setting for a reliable cold boot and then automatically reset things to more optimum values for what we want. At shut-down the utility would restore the reliable cold boot settings.
      - RE: cMP - Gigabyte mainboard problem - alba63 04:03:58 11/01/09 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: cMP - Gigabyte mainboard problem posted by DeDe on November 01, 2009 at 03:53:12
        
        What exactly are your components?
        I have
        - Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L (not "ES2L") with EIST disabled,
        - ESI Juli@ soundcard, with analogue part removed (external DAC used)
        - notebook HD (WD 500GB),
        - 256MB RAM,
        - Intel dual core E7200 with an arctic cooling blabla cooler (which is too loud).
        - PSU is Earth Watts 430W (I think it is Asus). That's it.
        
        BIOS and Windows configured as described on cics new cMP2 website.
        I am not down to 0.85V which works - fortunately stable - however I haven't yet installed the modified BIOS/ firmware.
        
        Those are the recommended components and if you use the same, it should work... I do not think the variation inside the same series is so big.
        
        good luck
        Bernie
        
        RE: cMP - Gigabyte mainboard problem - DeDe 04:50:40 11/01/09 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: cMP - Gigabyte mainboard problem posted by alba63 on November 01, 2009 at 04:03:58
        
        My components are not very dissimilar from yours. The most significant difference, I suppose, is that I’ve got the GA-G31M-ES2L motherboard.
        
        - Gigabyte GA-G31M-ES2L with EIST disabled
        - Intel dual core E7300
        - Thermalright AX-140 heatsink
        - Notebook HD (Samsung 160GB),
        - 1GB Kingston RAM
        - Corsair HX-450 power supply
        - ESI Juli@ soundcard
        
        I made all the Windows configuration changes detailed on cics new cMP2 website and also the bios settings as far as I was able to.
        
        I didn’t go immediately for the 256MB RAM because I wanted to preserve the ability to compare cPlay with Foobar. For the moment I’ve got 1GB.
        
        RE: cMP - Gigabyte mainboard problem - alba63 05:26:57 11/01/09 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: cMP - Gigabyte mainboard problem posted by DeDe on November 01, 2009 at 04:50:40
        
        Well I first had also the GA-G31M-ES2L and it worked with my configuration and 0.85V.
        The bigger the RAM the more electricity it consumes - at least that's what I read. So 256MB would consume less than 1GB. You might try out 256.
        
        What do you mean compare cplay with foobar? I use also other audio software, in my case J. River Media Jukebox - it sounds quite good, I could not hear a difference compared to foobar, but I do hear a difference in cplay which sounds better than Media Jukebox. In terms of useability, Media Jukebox is a Rolls Royce compared to cplay which is just a pain in the back. A lot of cue files do not work correctly with it here, it does not understand anything but WAV and flac, so for my other files I use Media Jukebox. I still run it with cMP software started...
        
        Anyway, I think playback is possible with all those softwares when only 256MB are installed.
        
        Whether the PSU makes a difference or not, I do not know, but I'd rather say no.
        
        Good luck
        
        Bernie
        
        RE: cMP - Gigabyte mainboard problem - DeDe 06:16:08 11/01/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: cMP - Gigabyte mainboard problem posted by alba63 on November 01, 2009 at 05:26:57
        
        I used cPlay in some during some early experiments before I finally assembled my dedicated computer and I was concerned by its very basic interface, its lack of library facilities and its refusal to work with every cuesheet. I wanted to see if I could get acceptable results from Foobar once I had a good hardware setup. As it’s turned out, the sonic benefits of cPlay are rather substantial.
        
        I’ll probably change my RAM to something smaller. I wasn’t sure if 256Mb would be ok for Foobar, so I played safe to begin with.
        
        What I really need at the moment is to be able to boot with something better than 200Mhz and 1v.
        
        RE: cMP - Gigabyte mainboard problem - theob 08:06:28 11/01/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: cMP - Gigabyte mainboard problem posted by DeDe on November 01, 2009 at 06:16:08
        
        What I have experienced is that when my pc resets bios it sometimes resets all settings (not just MIT). When I disable and reset per Cics specs then I can lower clock and voltage. Check out your bios.
        
        RE: cMP - Gigabyte mainboard problem - theob 06:26:13 11/01/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: cMP - Gigabyte mainboard problem posted by DeDe on November 01, 2009 at 06:16:08
        
        What I have experienced is that when my pc resets bios it sometimes resets all settings (not just MIT). When I disable and reset per Cics specs then I can lower clock and voltage. Check out your bios.
        
        RE: cMP - Gigabyte mainboard problem - alba63 10:11:59 11/01/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: cMP - Gigabyte mainboard problem posted by theob on November 01, 2009 at 06:26:13
        
        Yes, indeed many BIOS, and also some Windows settings had to be redone. But after the first time you do that quicker than the first time....
        
        And thanks to this forum (!) and the cMP2 HomePage and the engagement of cics I now have a dirt cheap audio PC that delivers excellent sound, better than anyting I had previously heard out of a computer...
        
        regards
        Bernie
Updates to Juli@ Follies Post WAAAY below... - GStew 10:46:58 10/11/09 (0)
I've the following info to my Juli@ Follies post below:

1. Info about one more regulator chip on the analog card which appears to power what appear to be the mixer chips, U24 and U26.

2. Info about the balanced outputs and the unbalanced and balanced inputs.

3. Info about the use of 5v on the digital card

4. Preliminary notes on where the outputs from the DAC go.

This all was prompted by:

1. I'm modifying a Juli@'s analog balanced outputs for another inmate, so I needed info on the balanced side.

2. I suspect there are some additional gains available by upgrading that last regulator chip that provides the negative rail to the mixer chips... the positive rail for those chips are covered by U10.

3. Replacing the output muting transistors with relay-based ones is a common modification for circuits such as this, providing some sonic gains.

4. I strongly suspect if one is using the Juli@ just as an output device, there are some serious sonic gains available by bypassing the mixers and output circuitry and taking the DAC output to a simplified and more direct output stage. I have this on my queue of Juli@ mods to try.

I hope this information will be useful for others!

Greg in Mississippi
Somehow I missed it but: the new documentation is great !! - hfavandepas 03:34:04 09/24/09 (11)
Hi Cics,

Somehow I missed it: http://cplay.sourceforge.net
but the new documentation is great !!
Thanks to Cics and everybody who contributed.
Paragrafs, content, lay-out, ect look good to the eye and are clear.

Now I don't hesitate any longer to point audiophiles with less PC skills to the cMP2 project and encourage them too try it and 'take the dive'.

There will be many more happy cPlay and cMP users on the way. :-)
LynxL22 dig i/o XLR AES/EBU -> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
- forum thread navigation - and renewed request to cPlay - play-mate 19:48:41 10/02/09 (10)
  starting a new thread in the cMP forum seems to be...eh, just another answer to the previous.
  dear administrators, -is that intended web-design or just a missing link ?
  
  with aljordan coming up with playlist in java script and numerous beautiful improvements of cics phenomenal efforts to our all delights, I´m just a little humble to forward my question again, about the eventual possibility of designing the cPlay´er without asio. i.e. in kernel streaming output.
  
  well knowing that this wish is based on the rare configuration with thuneau´s allocator VST digital XO software, I´m just plain curious if the double ASIO request can anyhow be configured differently.
  
  I´m not a ++CC computer programer, but maybe there is just somehow a way to link cPlay with allocator and obtain cMP2 ?
  -it just seems to be such a straightforward task.....
  
  -or maybe not !
  - RE: forum thread navigation - and renewed request to cPlay - cics 06:31:21 10/04/09 (9)
    It would be nice is to get a feature to see latest posts to a thread - that way all posts can be easily picked up. Hopefully sometime soon...
    
    cPlay doing KS can be achieved using ASIO4ALL. In ASIO4ALL, set sound output device to Lynx. This way, we get cPlay > ASIO4ALL > KS Lynx.
    - RE: forum thread navigation - and renewed request to cPlay - Dawnrazor 12:14:51 10/04/09 (7)
      Hey C,
      
      Glad to see this post. I tried to explain in my e-mail but not sure if I was too clear.
      
      2nd try.
      
      cPlay > ASIO4ALL > KS Lynx.
      
      That is a start, but what we need is cPlay > ASIO4ALL > Allocator > KS Lynx.
      
      AFIAK ASIO4all only talks to sound cards, not other applications.
      
      Ideally it would be cPlay > KS > Allocator > ASIO Lynx.
      
      Or as you pointed out, Allocator could function like an asio driver. That would be the best.
      
      At first glance it really does look like jack is the way to go. This week is hectic but I will test Jack with cmp one day. I think it can be done and will certainly put in the effort if it helps.
      - VST plugin support for Allocator may be the easiest way - cics 16:18:59 10/05/09 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: forum thread navigation - and renewed request to cPlay posted by Dawnrazor on October 04, 2009 at 12:14:51
        
        This would also remove Jack and make things a lot simpler.
        
        Will look into it...
        
        RE: VST plugin support for Allocator may be the easiest way - Dawnrazor 20:39:19 10/05/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: VST plugin support for Allocator may be the easiest way posted by cics on October 05, 2009 at 16:18:59
        
        YES!!!!!
        
        And while I dont know much at all about vst plugins except that cplay with vst support would solve everything for us poor lynx users, I imagine that there are other vst plugins besides allocator that would be a benefit.
        
        For instance arent there ones that do room correction??
        
        Anyhow, thanks so much for looking into it!!
        
        Here is one example - Dawnrazor 20:56:54 10/05/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: VST plugin support for Allocator may be the easiest way posted by Dawnrazor on October 05, 2009 at 20:39:19
        
        of room correction that is a vst plugin.
        
        Man would that be great to be able to get crossovers and room correction on a cmp2 box from cplay!
        
        http://www.esoundz.com/details.php?ProductID=1770 (Open in New Window)
        
        Won't plug-in need to handle sample rates up to192kHz? nt - Ebit 00:16:44 10/06/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Here is one example posted by Dawnrazor on October 05, 2009 at 20:56:54
        
        Frank
        
        Only if you are upsampling and - Dawnrazor 06:57:18 10/06/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Won't plug-in need to handle sample rates up to192kHz? nt posted by Ebit on October 06, 2009 at 00:16:44
        
        that was just an EXAMPLE. It was my mistake I suppose. Life has taught me that I seem to be one of the only ones who think GENERALLY.
        
        I didnt do an exhaustive search or anything, just a cursory one to enforce the concept. But in this specific case as I should have known better that no one would see it as a general case, one might get better results with upsampling to 96k in cplay, as the plugin only supports up to 96k, but running room correction.
        
        That might be a better trade off than 192k and no room correction. Who knows. It certainly would be nice to be able to weight that tradeoff on my own.
        
        And there might be a plugin that does support higher sampling rates...
      - cMP & JACK - play-mate 03:55:58 10/05/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: forum thread navigation - and renewed request to cPlay posted by Dawnrazor on October 04, 2009 at 12:14:51
        
        don´t we all live in hope....
        or, the hope is the last thing that dies..... :-)
        
        without having any idea how programming language works, or how complicated it would be to write a KS output, it´s just an suggestion.
        
        got my MINLOGON implemented this morning, and it´s just another few layers closer to the music. WOW !
        definition, transparency and liquidity another significant step forward. -and more dynamics too!
        
        ...it´s sort of sad that my hard disk / digital crossover / musicplayer is close to all optimizations....yeah well, except the real cMP mode.....
        
        it has exceeded my wildest expectations !
        
        RE: cMP & JACK - Dawnrazor 06:45:36 10/05/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: cMP & JACK posted by play-mate on October 05, 2009 at 03:55:58
        
        P,
        
        See, I have been a fanboy ever since I did a cmp2 box with the wrong hardware.
        
        Now that I have the right hardware, things are even better. Cics has done a bang up job on this and is leaps and bounds ahead of the "just add a usb dac and lots of ram to any old computer" crowd.
        
        I am totally busy this week, but I will be trying to get jack and allocator to work on my new rig....I'll let you know.
    - RE: forum thread navigation - and renewed request to cPlay - play-mate 07:07:16 10/04/09 (0)
      dear cics,
      
      thanks for your reply.
      
      still struggling to imagine how to implement the allocator in such a KS configuration.
      I have not a lot of experience with asio4all, but maybe you can deepen your thoughts on this....
      
      the allocator is a VST shell and requires the lynx twoB asio driver to route the 6 channels (bass-,mid- and treble bands) separately.
      
      I´ve tried to run the JACK router as "preparatory action" within cMP but have not got that to work.
      
      as winamp and apparently the J.River players have special plug-in´s for allocator, it´s just a thought if anything simmilar could be arranged for cPlay.
      
      having optimized my computer (GA -EG45M-UD2H with E7400, running at same values as Greg´s setup) and stripped windows (minlogon is due tomorrow), it´s actually only the cMP mode that remains.
      the allocator is a phenomenal tool to control the phase issues of my magnepans, and is an integral part of my setup.
      
      ....or, maybe I´m only dreaming of christmas presents already :-)
Window Activation - ecir38 11:51:03 09/14/09 (15)
I performed bios mods before installing XP SP2 and chose note to use networking functionality. I thought that windows activation would go away after performing chapters 7-12 but I keep getting the message that it needs to be activated in so many days.
Not sure if I missed something along the way and now am wondering if this may be a problem.
Brad

Edits: 09/14/09
- Implement MINLOGON - rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com 18:59:23 09/19/09 (9)
  and you never be prompted again
  - MINLOGON -crash ! XPlite file protection ?? - play-mate 07:57:26 10/07/09 (1)
    short was the delight of listening to minlogon.....
    
    wanted to re-enable the file protection with XPlite after successfully implementing minlogon, but when clicking the WFP tab in XPlite, the system crashes with a bluescreen.....
    
    the boot time is as long as it was in normal winlogon mode, but there is no password prompt.
    
    what to do ??
    - RE: MINLOGON -crash ! XPlite file protection ?? - seger 02:22:58 10/08/09 (0)
      If you didn't reverse the minlogon and winlogon filename changes and delete the "config" registry entry, you will have to do it from outside your system. If you have dual-boot, do it from the other system. Otherwise, put the hard drive into another computer and do it from that computer's system.
      
      Suggestions for the future: 1. Don't reinstate WFP once it's been disabled by xplite, 2. Use the Safe Mode method to implement minlogon and you won't have to use xplite at all.
  - MINLOGON -where will my .vbs threads go ? - play-mate 18:34:21 09/27/09 (3)
    to all of you having implemented MINLOGON :
    
    my music server is not entirely a data server only, but a XP based cPlay> JACK audio connection> thuneau ALLOCATOR crossover> lynx twoB -music mashine.
    -in order to keep this rather tricky combination running smoothly, I´m dependent on a .vbs script to connect all the components and "fooling" the ASIO drivers.
    this script was a nerve breaking task to get figured out, so I´m cautious to do it any harm, but I´m keen to implement MINLOGON and wonder which changes MINLOGON does to the functionality of this crucial script command.
    
    -will MINLOGON still "acknowledge" the desktop ?
    -which threads|accounts does MINLOGON alter ?
    -where to put this .vbs script and it´s dependencies before implementing MINLOGON ?
    
    give me encouragement !
    - RE: MINLOGON -where will my .vbs threads go ? - seger 02:18:18 09/28/09 (2)
      1. You will be using the Default User desktop, and will need to redo many of the customisations you did for cMP.
      2. It would be easier for you to try with what you have than do the research to catalogue all the system differences with minlogon.
      3. I've used simple vb programs with minlogon without difficulty, but couldn't say if yours will work - again, try and see.
      
      I like to experiment on a separate machine before messing with my primary source of musical enjoyment, but if you can't do that, you should be able to revert from minlogon back to your usual desktop if necessary. Proceed carefully, and read all the threads about minlogon.
      - RE: MINLOGON -where will my .vbs threads go ? - ForgotPassword 02:48:21 09/28/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: MINLOGON -where will my .vbs threads go ? posted by seger on September 28, 2009 at 02:18:18
        
        Is it convenient to back up your system drive with something like TrueImage? I think it's alot less tedious than researching every detail about minlogon.
        "We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we would let chemical analysis be the arbiter of fine wines." N.P.
        
        RE: MINLOGON -where will my .vbs threads go ? - Ryelands 03:22:10 09/28/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: MINLOGON -where will my .vbs threads go ? posted by ForgotPassword on September 28, 2009 at 02:48:21
        
        Is it convenient to back up your system drive with something like TrueImage?
        
        Agreed. I'd go further and say that creating image files of the system partition at key points in a cMP^2 build is mandatory, especially if you have a bespoke setup as play-mate does here. Recovery from a howler takes minutes, not hours,
        
        Finding optimal network settings for a "headless" cMP^2 system (there were surprises), I must have restored a "last known good" twenty times or more. Without image backups, I'd never have managed.
        
        I think it's a lot less tedious than researching every detail about minlogon.
        
        Again, I agree but, when seger says "read all the threads about minlogon", I'm not sure it's necessary. Follow the procedure at:
        
        http://cplay.sourceforge.net/pmwiki.php?n=CMP.ApdxBAdvanced
        
        which was, well, first described by seger. It's rock solid. (The manual method is best left to those atoning for sins.)
        
        Th minlogon tweak is very effective but acquired an early reputation as flakey. With seger's method and provided a backup is made first (to guard against user error), I don't think it's true any more.
        
        Go for it.
        
        Dave
  - Can we retest E5200? - cics 23:40:23 09/19/09 (2)
    With new BIOS settings (esp disabling EIST), it would be very interesting to see what the E5200 offers.
    - Just saw your request - rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com 07:44:49 10/03/09 (1)
      so little happens here I only look at it occasionally.
      
      My E5200 is now in my office computer and not easily (I am lazy) accessed.
      
      Though, remember, it would not allow the same settings as E7200 as far as RAM timing. I, of course, do not know how important that is in absolute terms, but I do remember it to be significantly different.
      
      My guess is that it is not worth the trouble. Even way back then, when switching back to E7200 I remember there was a robustness to the sound in comparison to E5200. I do think I really heard this because I wanted E5200 to be better!
      
      It would run on very low voltage, though, but, again, I wonder if that would be running into that old audio bugaboo of the diminishing return?
      
      I have not taken the chance to compliment you on the website. Very nice and should make it simplicity for the motivated music lover to use your handiwork. Though one wonders how much easier, than free, should one make it? cics, you are quite a fine fellow!
      
      Bye,
      
      Rick McInnis
      - RE: Just saw your request - cics 06:25:57 10/04/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Just saw your request posted by rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com on October 03, 2009 at 07:44:49
        
        E5200's attraction is the smaller L2 cache (2MB vs 3MB). We only need 2MB.
        
        Anyway, I think the new Core i3 32nm CPU may be even better (but this needs new mobo and cooler). Although this beast comes with 4MB L3 cache, with right BIOS settings, power consumption could be significantly lower than E7xxx. We could possibly see ±10 watts consumption doing 192k@SRC145db!
- RE: Window Activation - RayBan 13:32:34 09/14/09 (4)
  I reloaded XP numerous times and had to activate everytime by phone. If you don't it will quit when the number of days arrives.
  
  Maybe someone knows a method to avoid this as one day XP will be "No More" and if you have to reload you will be SOL!!
  RayBan
  - RE: Window Activation - edward 13:47:17 09/14/09 (3)
    The last time I set up a cMP machine, I never activated XP. IIRC after I went through the minlogon process it stopped asking me to activate. I've been using this machine for 6 months like this.
    - Should have read all of the posts!!! - rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com 19:00:11 09/19/09 (0)
      Sorry
    - Thanks - ecir38 14:59:09 09/14/09 (1)
      So either I call microsoft or carefully replace winlogon with minlogon. Thinking I will try the later since all other steps have been performed.
      
      Brad
      - Minlogon - ecir38 05:51:46 09/16/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Thanks posted by ecir38 on September 14, 2009 at 14:59:09
        
        Installed minlogon without a hitch, I used seger's method. For preperation I read all previous post about minlogon here and on the cPlay thread. Thanks to all that were involved in what I thought was going to be tough into a fairly easy process. From all the reading on the subject it sounds like this makes a dramatic improvement but I haven't done any listening yet. Installing minlogon for me is recommended because it cut my boot time in half!!!
        
        As recommended recheck your optimizations since some things do revert back after install. This took longer than installing minlogon.
        
        Thanks Again,
        Brad
CPU temp - ecir38 21:51:22 09/05/09 (1)
What is a safe CPU temp with a E7200 and the GA-G31M-S2L?

Has anyone looked at changing the heatsinks for the north and south bridge?

Brad
- RE: CPU temp - cics 03:21:00 09/06/09 (0)
  Heatsinks on mobo chipset are fine. Undervolting FSB and underclocking also reduces power in Northbridge.
  
  CPU temp can go to ±75°C without any problems.
Bios says one thing and Cpuid says another - Dawnrazor 13:43:36 09/03/09 (6)
which one is right?

The bios shows 6*140 or 840hz and .83 volts, but cpuid 1.46 shows 6*266 or 1600 at .80 volts.

Which one is right? I reboot to see if the bios changes are still there, and they are.

Do I need the new version of cpuid?
- RE: Bios says one thing and Cpuid says another - RayBan 10:52:45 09/05/09 (1)
  There have been a couple new versions recently published.
  RayBan
  - RE: Bios says one thing and Cpuid says another - Dawnrazor 13:22:05 09/05/09 (0)
    Yeah I tried cpuid 1.52 or 56 whatever the latest is. It wasn't cpuid, it was me.
    
    The bios would reflect my changes and I guess they weren't stable so it would load one that was without me knowing it....
    
    We'll see how it goes.
- Update - Dawnrazor 18:33:55 09/03/09 (3)
  This bios in the GA-G31M-ES2L is a bit different than I remember other bios being.
  
  I set it to the correct settings and then it seems to reboot and change always to 6 X 266.
  
  Cpuid is right.
  
  What do I need to do to have it go lower than 266??
  
  What am I missing?
  - RE: Update - edward 18:58:03 09/03/09 (2)
    If it resets itself to the default FSB (266), that indicates that whatever you tried to set it to was too unstable. I've had that happen to me on the GA-G31M-S2L board as well. IOW, you're probably not going to be able to set it to 140 right off the bat with a new board and cpu. Try playing with it at 266 for awhile (possibly days) and then reduce it slowly. So try 200 and play with that for awhile and then try 150 and play with that and then finally go to 140. You may not get there until you've "burned it in" for awhile - perhaps a week or more.
    I should also add, you're kind of lucky that it just changes the FSB and then continues to boot. With my board, if I pick an unstable setting (like voltage too low or something) then it doesn't boot at all and is completely hosed. I then have to remove the CMOS battery and reset the CMOS and start all over. Using the CMOS reset jumpers doesn't even work.
    
    Edits: 09/03/09
    - RE: Update - Dawnrazor 20:04:12 09/03/09 (1)
      Hey Edward,
      
      I thought it might be my impatience and that it takes time for the components to settle. (when I asked my gamer computer geek he said that things usually got worse over time and when I asked, "...wouldnt it be the opposite because I am underclocking things?" he just scoffed and we agreed to disagree...
      
      I will have to go slow then. Thanks for letting me know.
      
      FWIW, I DID have to use the cmos jumpers a few times when I set the voltage too low.
      
      Bummer that your board behaved that way, but sounds like you have it where you want it.
      - RE: Update - ecir38 21:11:25 09/03/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Update posted by Dawnrazor on September 03, 2009 at 20:04:12
        
        It looks like we are at about the same progress on a cMP, I am using the S2L.
        I had to set CPU Host Frequency to 170 to get my M.I.T setting to stop resetting. VID at .85000 wouldn't allow reboot and had to clear CMOS so put it at .95000 for the time being to move forward. I figured I would try lowering once chapters 5-12 are done. So far all is stable through half of the optimizations.
        Using the website for your build sure makes you appreciate the hard work that was put into it, thanks to all that were involved.
        Brad
        
        Edits: 09/03/09
cMP vs Linn DS? - wcvb 07:50:27 08/30/09 (1)
Has anyone compared the cMP to the Linn DS? I'm particularly interested in comparison with the digital outputs of the Linn Sneaky DS and Majik DS.

These two Linn DS models can be used effectively as Ethernet to SPDIF converters. I'd be interested in people's thoughts on Ethernet to SPDIF as compared to USB or FireWire to SPDIF conversion.

wcvb
- RE: cMP vs Linn DS? - Dawnrazor 22:13:35 08/30/09 (0)
  WC,
  
  i doubt you will get an answer.
  
  Those are drastically different products.
  
  Anyone who has built a cmp2 box is too busy listening to compare something so ridiculously expensive as the Linn gear to their cmp2 rig, and i doubt anyone who can afford a Linn solution would "slum" with a mere $1000 pc transport.
  
  Also most are using pci to spdif for their dacs and my hunch is that anyone using USB or Firewire probably isnt running spdif out to a dac, but is using a USB or Firewire DAC. AFAIK this avoids spdif all together as does the analog outs of a soundcard.
My cMP 100% batterie feeded - hanssatink 02:58:42 08/30/09 (3)
Hi all,

Here is a picture of my cMP batterie project. Yesterday i'll added a SSD disk. It was the last part. Sound is incredible clean with 100% batterie supply.

Case: Antec, Mobo: EG45M, Proc: E7400, RAM: Mushkin EM2-6400, Sound:Juli@ (only digital part)

Power.
I have one switch for 'playing / off / charge'. The PicoPSU is used for 5 and 3,3 V and when it starts it also activates the 12 Volt low drop regulator and the relais for feeding 3,3V to the Juli@. All 12 Volt lines are feeded by a LOW drop Regulator (Micrel MIC29502BT), straight from the batterie. The batterie is a 45AH traction type. For charging the lipofers i used my THEL regulator. I used an variable s-psu for the THEL input (6V). 13,7V input from the batterie charger generated a lot of heat in the THEL. It can play all day without having to charge. Total current (main Batterie 12V) is 1,9 Amp. My Buffalo DAC and AMP4 are also feeded with batteries. NO 230V mains at all!

Feel free to give comments or questions.
- RE: My cMP 100% batterie feeded - cics 07:48:54 08/30/09 (1)
  Nice work!
  
  At 22.8 watts you can definitely drop the CPU fan and use Thermalright's fanless option.
  
  Power can be further reduced - what voltages/frequencies are you at? See here (and Greg's follow-up) . Set CPU host to 140 if possible.
  - RE: My cMP 100% batterie feeded - hanssatink 07:57:09 08/31/09 (0)
    Thx for the suggestion. The CPU fan is a next step!
    Edit: ill tried it, but without fan the mobo won't start.. Whats the trick??
    I collect my mobo settings and report them here. The most are equal to Greg's reports.
    
    Edits: 08/31/09
- RE: My cMP 100% batterie feeded - theob 05:07:41 08/30/09 (0)
  Beautiful!!
Anyone with the GA-G31M-ES2L know which - Dawnrazor 07:55:37 08/29/09 (2)
driver on the disk will make the PCI Device warning in the device manager go away?

Since I don't have internet and all the other devices seem to be installed, I am guessin that those missing drivers have something to do with the PCI DEVICE error.

I know, just put in the disk and install it. But they made it on a DVD and my external drive is cd only. SO I guessed and copied files from the disk to the usb thumb drive and that found most of the missing drivers.

I do have a dvd drive in another pc and while it is a pain I can put it in the new rig if I have to. I just thought I would ask if anyone knew which folder to copy to save some time...or if this will make the internet work anyhow.
- RE: Anyone with the GA-G31M-ES2L know which - GStew 09:56:36 08/29/09 (1)
  It may be a bit late for this trick, but the last several times I did installs (from when I was trying this board and the GA-EG45M-UD2H board), I went into the BIOS aand disabled all extraneous devices BEFORE installing Windows... this reduced the number of drivers I needed to install from the disk.
  I don't remember for sure (heck, that was almost three months ago!), but I don't think I had to do any driver installs because the optimizations took care of the rest of them.
  Greg in Mississippi
  P.S. I believe I got this tip originally from Ryelands in a private communication.
  
  Edits: 08/29/09
  - RE: Anyone with the GA-G31M-ES2L know which - Dawnrazor 22:16:06 08/30/09 (0)
    Thanks.
    
    I just borrowed a DVDrom drive and got it going. I needed the internet to authorize windows.
    
    Everything went smooth once I found the driver for the ethernet.
    
    I do remember Ryelands telling me about the bios first trick. That is a great trick...
Bios Question - Dawnrazor 13:13:14 08/28/09 (2)
I remember that Cics was able to get a special bios written.

Do I need this, and will it work for the GA-G31M-ES2L??

And where are the latest bios settings and what about nopae? Wasn't that ditched and then reevaluated? What was the verdict?
- Special BIOS and new documentation! - cics 23:12:02 08/28/09 (1)
  Special BIOS is only available on the discontinued mobo (M-S2L).
  
  See new website for full build details.
  - NEW DOC IS GREAT!!! - GStew 09:50:40 08/29/09 (0)
    Thanks cics!
    
    Greg in Mississippi
Display Brightness of Zalman HD160XT Plus case - nagual19 00:00:33 08/28/09 (1)
Hello CMP builders, I've finally bought the Zalman HD160XT enclosure, because I am extremely impressed by the performance of a CMP 'squared' computer transport and I think this should deserve the nicest 'wrapping' possible.

So far the transfer of the components from my old antec tower case to the Zalman went smoothly, only thing that I find very distracting is its display brightness (this seems at 100percent like all new LCDs).

@ Cics, gstew, can you eventually tell me how to turn the display brightness down? I searched via google, it seems this is only possible using Zalmans lousy windows software - even then, is it that the display is at the default (100%) brightness" until the software is loaded after Windows login and finally turns the brightness down?

I would be extremely happy if this software is able to write the brightness setting in some sort of firmware, then I'd have to install it only once (using a second Windows partition since i don't want these crap to spoil my CMP installation)

A big thank you to cics and all the other people's hard work in making this possible! The sound produced by CMP2 and my modded Zhaolu DAC is the BEST I ever experienced, a dream come true also from a price standpoint. I am spreading the word to all my friends --
- Adjust brightness using buttons below LCD screen (menu, etc.) - cics 23:15:28 08/28/09 (0)
  Menu > Color > Brightness
  
  Definitely don't need the software.
Motherboard grounding question - Dawnrazor 18:46:31 08/27/09 (4)
I just finished assembling the wooden computer case I will be using to house my new cmp2 system.

Looking at the mobo, I see that the screw holes seem to have some conductive elements and since normal computer cases are metal i am assuming that the motherboard in a normal case gets grounded when one screws it into the case.

Is this true, and if so for those of you who have also built a case of wood, how did you handle the grounding?

On a similar note I was thinking of using t-shield for some shielding and it was recommended that I tie the shielding into the ground on the psu. Is that correct, and would I also tie in the mobo at this point too??

And did you screw the mobo right into the wood, or did you use some kind of stand off so the mobo was slightly above the wood? If so what did you use for a stand off?

TIA
- RE: Motherboard grounding question - GStew 09:40:59 08/29/09 (0)
  First I want to say I'm no EE or grounding expert.
  
  With that said, I'm slowly working towards a wood support for my cMP2 (not really a case) with separate metal shielding enclosures for the motherboard and the power supplies. I intend to tie the metal shield around the motherboard to the board. I also bring all my power supply grounds to the motherboard via the PS connections, making the motherboard ground plane the star (since that's where most of the circulating currents are created).
  
  Theob, I keep meaning to respond to your original post about connecting to the wall socket gound and just haven't... I've been doing that too since going with the separate linear power supplies and also noted a difference (slight and subtle, but noticable).
  
  On standoffs, I'd use either wood, brass, copper, or nylon, in that order of preference. I have damping rings from Herbie's tube dampers around the aluminum standoffs in my Zalman case and that also makes a worthwhile difference. An interesting thing about this is that at one point, I another 10 or so dampers just setting between the motherboard and the case bottom in addition to the dampers on the standoffs... that was WAY too dull. It was one of the first times I've ever gotten something over-damped.
  
  Later!
  
  Greg in Mississippi <- working on separate I2S-connected DAC cards now.
- RE: Motherboard grounding question - theob 03:39:36 08/28/09 (2)
  I have my cmp in a metal case and all I can say is that when I grounded the mobo to a wall mains outlet screw another level of transparency was achieved. At first I thought I was hearing things so I asked my wife to choose a preference (sonically) between grounded and ungrounded and she heard what I heard. So try it for yourself.
  - RE: Motherboard grounding question - Dawnrazor 09:23:19 08/28/09 (1)
    Hey Theob,
    
    How did you ground it?
    
    Run a wire from a screw to the screw on an outlet?
    - RE: Motherboard grounding question - theob 17:30:58 08/28/09 (0)
      yes make sure its a screw on the mobo.
battery power - play-mate 03:51:44 08/08/09 (1)
with battery driven power there is much to be gained....

is there anyone who have tried this ?

http://www.oceanserver-store.com/modules.html

it seems that could be a quite promising turnkey solution.

-keen on comments !
- RE: battery power - Bertel 13:20:44 08/19/09 (0)
  Hi mate! ;-)
  
  I have neither tried this nor do I have any particular knowledge about this product/solution, but it sounds interesting from the charging/handling side of things. It combines a number of battery packs with a regulated voltage output, and it provides ATX signaling, a VERY interesting feature.
  
  However, there's two aspects to take care of:
  
  - When it comes to proper voltage supply for digital circuits, providing the power as quickly and as exactly is of utmost importance, thus internal resistance of the power supply is key. But when adding battery packs like NiMH, internal resistance soon goes over the top - I know that because in my experiments with NiMH packs I have easily reached levels well into the thousands of mOhm...
  
  - This is not a problem when combining the packs with appropriate capacitance - but the regulator needs to be able to handle huge capacitance. For this reason I use THEL regulators, they deliberately have a somewhat higher internal resistance and react quite "slow" providing a "weak" power supply which can successfully feed and load even huge capacitance of several ten thousands of uF.
  
  - As for 3.3V, I prefer direct supply with LiFePo packs which have unmatched internal resistance and usually last very long when sized properly. So in my system, I boot up with a regular ATX power supply to get the ATX boot timing etc. right and then switch over to clean battery power - a modular, non-integrated, quite "old-fashioned" approach that in turn gives me full control and exchangeability of all components involved, I think that's what I prefer ;-)
  
  Regards,
  Robert
current cMP hardware recommendation question - alba63 18:22:49 08/04/09 (2)
Hello, I am new here, I would like to build a PC transport as described, however several of the parts originally mentioned in 2007 are hardly available anymore, in particular:
1. Mainboard Biostar P4M890- M7 PCI-E
2. PSU Enermax Noisetaker II 485

Eventually it may be possible to get one used on Ebay, but are there more recent components that are easier to get and allow the same tweakings necessary for the cMP as described?

Thanks for a pointer in the right direction, the thread here is too long to find the right things specially when new to the topic.

thanks and regards
Bernie
- RE: current cMP hardware recommendation question - Dawnrazor 20:49:07 08/04/09 (0)
  Alba,
  
  Welcome.
  
  Here is a link of a list of some recent hardware that I purchased.
  
  I have the Enermax noise taker but I think if you look the Antec Earthwatts is recommended or something with low ripple.
  - http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=pcaudio&n=54252&hi (Open in New Window)
- RE: current cMP hardware recommendation question - Frodan 20:34:31 08/04/09 (0)
  If you go to the cPlay thread here you'll see that the hardware has changed a lot. We use a Gigabyte motherboard and a more powerful cpu.
  
  http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/3/31286.html
  
  Daniel Gauthier
  Montreal Canada
  
  Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L, E7200, 2 x 1 gig HyperX LL Memory, Antec SLP-450WR PSU, WinXP sp3 on Compact Flash Drive, Jili@ Analog Out direct to Electrocompaniet Ampliwire II Amplifier, Apogée Convergence Speakers
Questions about EAC and a touch screen monitor - Nikola 13:14:38 08/02/09 (2)
Hi guys,
I have two questions that probably have been answered already, I did my best to search the forum but I am not very computer hardware literate and might have missed them... Apologies please, will appreciate a link to get me to some reading.

Now about EAC - is there a full description on how to make the most accurate rips of audio CDs? I prefer .wav format, FLAC is probably as good but somehow I feel more comfortable to start with the wavs and later experiment with FLAC.

Second question - I found a 12" touch screen monitor for a reasonable price but the requirements are that I have a PCI slot and a COMM port. As far as I understand the monitor has its PCI video card integrated. So is it possible to use it with the cMP?I will find a way to make it work if it is not contradicting with the principles of the cMP hardware. If it is too hard I will just skip it and go for a regular LCD monitor. I am not sure if it needs to have a USB output or just a VGA connector so a word about it will be much much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
- RE: Questions about EAC and a touch screen monitor - Frodan 16:50:37 08/02/09 (1)
  This is a pretty good site to get the best settings for EAC: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=EAC_Drive_Configuration
  
  I would recommend you don't add a PCI card to your player, as it will affect the audio coming from your sound card, unles you are using a USB or PCI-E based sound card. There are other touch screen monitors out there that work on a standard VGA port. They also use a USB port to do the touch screen instead of a comm port, which is preferable as we wish to disable as much of the legacy hardware we can get away with.
  
  Daniel Gauthier
  Montreal Canada
  
  Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L, E7200, 2 x 1 gig HyperX LL Memory, Antec SLP-450WR PSU, WinXP sp3 on Compact Flash Drive, Jili@ Analog Out direct to Electrocompaniet Ampliwire II Amplifier, Apogée Convergence Speakers
  - RE: Questions about EAC and a touch screen monitor - Nikola 03:18:58 08/03/09 (0)
    Many thanks, that was exactly what I was looking for :)
While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... - theob 10:56:42 07/22/09 (17)
...instead of numeric data processor under IRQ. Everything seems to work (cmp,cplay, loading new files into hd from fd etc) except when I left click on the mouse to index to next track.This does not work. Now
I can definitely live with this but I fear there may be other things that may not work. So should I just leave it as is or try to fix it? BTW it shows up in Device Mgr under IDE ATA.ATAPI controllers but not under IRQ.
- RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... - theob 12:41:42 07/28/09 (16)
  The right click on mouse functionality (to index a track) was restored when I put cicsremote back in the cmp folder. I have been searching the internet and Microsoft Knowledge Base to find an answer and have concluded the following:
  
  --it is probably my cd drive that was unistalled but I don't know how to check this. Any ideas?
  
  --the recommended way to reinstall drivers is to uninstall drivers in Device Mgr then reboot twice. This did not work for me,
  
  -- the last method given in the Microsoft knowledge Base is to go in the Registry and reset some values. Has anybody else here tried this?
  
  I appreciate any feedback. I don't have any trouble running cplay/cmp and no trouble loading in new wav files from a flash drive but would like to get primary ide channel back up and running.
  - RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... - seger 02:24:29 07/29/09 (15)
    In BIOS - Integrated Peripherals, is "On Chip Primary PCI IDE" Enabled? Or Secondary?
    - RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... - theob 05:17:29 07/29/09 (14)
      It is Enabled.
      - RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... - seger 08:30:15 07/29/09 (13)
        
        In Reply to: RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... posted by theob on July 29, 2009 at 05:17:29
        
        OK, I looked back to your earlier posts and you said the Primary IDE Channel shows up in device manager, just without IRQ. It's enabled but you can't use your DVD drive, is that the problem? Check Primary IDE Channel properties to see if the drivers are there and working, then check the resources tab (in properties box) to see if there's an IRQ assigned.
        
        Also it may be that the IDE controller is disabled by BIOS - Integrated Peripherals "On-Chip SATA Mode" being set to non-combined. Try changing to "Combined" and see if that alters anything.
        
        RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... - theob 09:32:41 07/29/09 (12)
        
        In Reply to: RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... posted by seger on July 29, 2009 at 08:30:15
        
        " OK, I looked back to your earlier posts and you said the Primary IDE Channel shows up in device manager, just without IRQ."
        
        correct
        
        "Is enabled but you can't use your DVD drive, is that the problem?"
        
        I can't tell. I put a cd in the drive and it seems to rotate but nothing happens but I don't get an error message.
        
        "Check Primary IDE Channel properties to see if the drivers are there and working, then check the resources tab (in properties box) to see if there's an IRQ assigned."
        
        Checked propperties and it says device working properly. No irq assigned. Under Advanced Settings it says Not Applicable under Current Transfer mode for device 0 and 1.
        
        "Also it may be that the IDE controller is disabled by BIOS - Integrated Peripherals "On-Chip SATA Mode" being set to non-combined. Try changing to "Combined" and see if that alters anything."
        
        Did not change anything
        
        RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... - seger 14:29:59 07/29/09 (9)
        
        In Reply to: RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... posted by theob on July 29, 2009 at 09:32:41
        
        You might want to try one more thing before taking the leap to reinstalling chipset drivers (I wouldn't do that without leaving minlogon). Your report: "Under Advanced Settings it says Not Applicable under Current Transfer mode for device 0 and 1." suggests that you might try to get the transfer mode settings to DMA (I'm assuming DMA controller is enabled) Here's a link to the subject that suggests how you might do it: http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/check-your-transfer-mode-to-boost-computer-speed/ Hope you get it sorted out one way or another.
        
        RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... - theob 16:35:27 07/29/09 (8)
        
        In Reply to: RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... posted by seger on July 29, 2009 at 14:29:59
        
        Yes I already found that link, tried it, didn't work. Also unistalling the driver while On-Chip SATA Mode setvto Combined/rebooting did not work.
        
        RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... - seger 02:46:32 07/30/09 (7)
        
        In Reply to: RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... posted by theob on July 29, 2009 at 16:35:27
        
        cics has said that we should start DCOM,COM+ Event,COM+ System, Event Log, and WMI before installing software - I would try this in conjunction with driver installations you are attempting. Also, when I am not sure about the effect of minlogon on system changes, or have an unexplained problem, I get out of minlogon to sort it out, that's why I mentioned it before.
        
        The driver for Primary IDE Channel is atapi.sys, which I think is from the Windows driver cache, and probably won't be renewed from the chipset driver reinstall, but you would be hoping to trigger a reorganization that solves your problem, so still worth a try.
        
        I am hoping to learn something new from this puzzle, so would prefer to try specific changes first. I use a SATA DVD drive so can't try for myself. So if you don't mind here goes again:
        1. The services (above) running and try what you've already tried before.
        2. Check your physical DVD drive connections - to IDE 0 or 1, and master/slave setting
        3. With On-Chip SATA mode set to Combined, you can check and reset PATA IDE to the correct channel if necessary.
        4. You could try the On-Chip SATA mode set to AUTO
        
        RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... - theob 05:00:45 07/30/09 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... posted by seger on July 30, 2009 at 02:46:32
        
        I tried this , within minlogon, and nothing changed. What puzzles me is that I have a sata dvd drive as well but I think you assumed I had an ide drive. What does this mean?
        Ok I have the properties of one of my 2 ide channels showing not applicable for current transfer mode. I assumed it was my dvd drive because the hd works ok (boots up, plays cplay, allows tranfer of new music into hd from fd). How do I definitively tell which one is 'not applicable'?
        
        Edits: 07/30/09
        
        RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... - seger 06:46:20 07/30/09 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... posted by theob on July 30, 2009 at 05:00:45
        
        A veritable wild goose chase. The whole idea of the Combined setting was to try to allow the computer to manipulate the IDE device, which turns out to be a SATA drive! LMAO!
        
        Can you install the DVD drive in another computer and see if it works, or perhaps install a different DVD drive in your computer. If the suspect drive can be shown to work elsewhere, the search for a culprit starts again.
        
        RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... - theob 06:55:29 07/30/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... posted by seger on July 30, 2009 at 06:46:20
        
        I know the drive works(its brand new)and it just stopped working when I deleted my primary ide channel by accident. I found this on a google search
        
        OR... IF THAT DOESN'T WORK TRY THIS RegEdit Option:
        
        Following is the mechanism that has worked for me, please try it at your own risk, it involves making changes to the registry:
        
        Open RegEdit
        Find the following KEY:
        HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\
        Class\{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\000x
        The last four digits will be 0000, 0001, 0002, 0003, and so on.
        Under each key, delete all occurences of the following values:
        MasterIdDataChecksum
        SlaveIdDataChecksum
        Reboot the computer. Windows will now redetect DMA settings.
        
        Does it make sense to try this? One of my checksum keys does have a value. I didn't delete w/o some assurance this will cause no damage.
        
        RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... - theob 07:19:32 07/30/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... posted by theob on July 30, 2009 at 06:55:29
        
        This is getting more bizarre. I checked the registry values for checksum keys and there was one set to a non zero value but it was for the secondary primary channel (not primary) so I checked within control panel for properties of my secondary ide channel and indeed device 1 for the secondary channel now shows not applicable for current transfer mode (so I guess I am getting worse). Primary Ide Channel properties still shows not applicable for both device 0 and 1. All I did different was shut sys down/pull dvd sata cable from mobo/reboot/shut down and reset cable/ reboot in an effort to trey to get dvd device recognized by system.
        
        I put O Chip Sata mode back to non combined... - theob 07:50:42 07/30/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... posted by theob on July 30, 2009 at 07:19:32
        
        ..and now Primary IDE Channel is back up showing DMA ultra 5 as Current Transfer Mode for one device (not other device though). So now I am making progress. Also Secondary IDE Channel shows DMA ultra 5 as Current Transfer Mode for one device(not other device though).
        
        I guess I leave it alone for awhile and NOT UNINSTALL PRIMARY (OR SECONDARY IDE CHANNEL) AGAIN.
        
        Sometimes I think Fmak is right, this stuff is very unpredictable.
        
        RE: I put O Chip Sata mode back to non combined... - seger 11:46:18 07/30/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I put O Chip Sata mode back to non combined... posted by theob on July 30, 2009 at 07:50:42
        
        Well done! The old turn-it-off-and-on-again works again! You just needed to tickle the Microsoft dragon in the right place. I've had this with soundcards, where physically removing and replacing seems to wake up the drivers - perhaps an engineer can explain this phenomenon.
        
        RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... - theob 05:19:48 07/30/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... posted by theob on July 30, 2009 at 05:00:45
        
        I tried one more thing--disconnected cable from dvd to mobo, rebooted and nothing changed but now under 'My Computer' I don't show the dvd player, whereas before it did show. So I guess that confirms that indeed the dvd plasyer is not working.
        
        RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... - seger 11:18:24 07/29/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... posted by theob on July 29, 2009 at 09:32:41
        
        With setting still on Combined, try the driver uninstall and reboot routine that you did before. Apart from that, I'm out of suggestions.
        
        RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... - Frodan 13:36:34 07/29/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: While booting up I accidentally uninstalled my primary ide channel... posted by seger on July 29, 2009 at 11:18:24
        
        Try to install the Intel drivers from the motherboard CD. You will probably have to redo a lot of the windows optimizations over after that.
        
        Daniel Gauthier
        Montreal Canada
        
        Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L, E7200, 2 x 1 gig HyperX LL Memory, Antec SLP-450WR PSU, WinXP sp3 on Compact Flash Drive, Jili@ Analog Out direct to Electrocompaniet Ampliwire II Amplifier, Apogée Convergence Speakers
A headless CMP box works great except for one thing... - aljordan 06:40:47 07/20/09 (0)
Hi,
I have my headless CMP machine booting into CMP mode with CPlay fully controlled by the network version of my CPlayList Editor application. I have no need for VNC server except for one issue. My front panel power button shuts down windows and the computer when booted into XP mode, however it does not work in CMP mode. This leaves me with no way to shut off the computer. Any suggestions?

Edits: 07/20/09
Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions. - aljordan 09:01:53 07/19/09 (21)
Hi,

I finally put together a CMP-like machine the other day. I used hardware that I had on hand; decent stuff but not the same as recommended here. I used an Asus P5W DH Deluxe motherboard, an Intel E6600 CPU, Corsair RAM, Corsair 520HX power supply, and a good case. The machine has no internal discs and uses a separately powered external SATA drive to hold the operating systems. I actually put three different operating systems on this disc so that I could eventually compare CMP on XP to optimized Linux and Vista configurations. There is also a partition for another operating system that is not yet being used.

I followed all of the OS recommendations except I didn't shutdown networking because my music library lives elsewhere on the network. (I know, string me up and tar and feather me, but for the life of me I can't figure out why running networking would be worse than running extra local discs, a monitor, a keyboard, and a wireless mouse.) I followed bios recommendations where I could find similarities with the bios on my motherboard.

I am using the box headless - no monitor, mouse, nor keyboard, which brings up a slight issue I'll explain later. I have two different DAC solutions I am trying with it, an internal Lynx 2B via the Lynx drivers, and a Wavelength Cosecant v3 USB DAC via ASIO4All. I put the Lynx card in so I could try upsampling, but after a brief comparison I am listening mostly via the USB DAC.

I am trying to get the headless system to not need to run VNC server. I can do this because I made a network capable version of my CPlayListEditor program. I can run a server instance on the CMP box, and run a client version on any other computer in the house. The client version gets the libraries from the server, and can build playlists from those libraries, and then sends the playlists to the instance running on the CMP box which then launches CPlay with the playlist loaded. I am able to control CPlay on the CMP box via the network client of my program because I added pause, next and previous buttons to my application, which sends messages to the server instance which then sends the command on to CPlay.

While I haven't yet directly compared this solution to my battery Fit-PC Slim running an optimized version of Linux, I can say that I am thus far very impressed with the sound quality. It is the best I've achieved out of a full sized PC.

So, here are my issues and questions.

1) The "Don't use welcome screen" recommendation keeps me from being totally headless and running VNC server because it forces a password dialog box on boot-up. I only have one account on this machine, so leaving 'use welcome screen' enabled allows the computer to boot up directly into that account without displaying the welcome screen. I see a couple of ways around it but don't know enough about CMP to make an informed decision:

* I could boot directly into XP mode with the welcome screen enabled, then automatically start my CPlaylist Editor application and automatically start CMP mode. If I start CMP mode after boot-up with welcome screen enabled, will there still be the lockup problem?

This brings up two other questions...
- Is there any in CMP mode, other than behavioral differences, when CMP mode is started from XP mode as compared to when CMP mode is booted into directly? I am only interested in technical differences that might affect sound quality.

- When already in CMP mode, is there any difference in threading when the CMP explorer (or whatever its called) starts CPlay as compared to my application starting CPlay, or will CPlay start optimized to the CMP settings no matter how it is started when in CMP mode?

* My second option would be to boot directly into CMP mode, but I would need a way to do this that would not bring up the password dialog box when the welcome screen is disabled. Is there any manner to do this? This would also require a way to automatically start my CPlayList Editor application within CMP mode. Is there some batch file that runs automatically when CMP mode is started that I could edit to start my application?

Thanks in advance for any information related to these questions.

Alan
- RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions. - cics 11:03:14 07/19/09 (8)
  Ethernet connection has OS and device overheads but your headless setup will give benefits - its a tradeoff. cPlay will RAM load data before playback so Network streaming is not an issue.
  1. Welcome Screen.
    You should implement the changes. This will force a password dialog. Minlogon optimisation removes this dialog (as you now logon as System Default). Benefits of Minlogon are huge and yes it will work with Networking enabled. Seger has a easier approach which you should look into.
  2. cMP Mode.
    This results in least OS bloat and is the best way to run cPlay (Optimise must be "Critical"). With your Lynx, you can also Suspend both lsass and svchost. cMP optimises use of CPU Cores. Running from Explore is a bad idea (this locks all threads to CPU0 and doesn't adjust priority).
  3. Way Forward.
    Start directly into cMP Mode (no logon/password dialog with Minlogon). In cMP, set "Process Explorer" or "Task Manager" as startup but instead run your Network app (CPlayList Editor?). See cicsMemoryPlayer.pth file for details. If CPlayList Editor can trigger starting cPlay by cMP then you have gained all benefits. Also remove cicsRemote.exe from cMP installation folder (this prevents cMP from running it).
  Good start!
  - RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions. - theob 10:09:49 07/20/09 (2)
    If I remove cicsRemote.exe from the cMP installation folder will this help sonically? Also I don't use touch screen either is it useful to remove this as well?
    
    Edits: 07/20/09
    - RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions. - cics 10:39:58 07/21/09 (1)
      cicsRemote.exe provides the remote automation using a wireless mouse. If you remove this, you won't have remote control. However, it won't matter if you're not using a mouse, i.e. you can remove it. I tested this a long while back and found no differences. Its worth testing again - let us know.
      
      There's nothing to remove if you don't have a touch screen.
      - RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions. - theob 05:50:05 07/22/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions. posted by cics on July 21, 2009 at 10:39:58
        
        I tried this (eliminating cicsRemote.exe from cmp folder) and although there is one less process in task manager it does not sound different to me after one day of listening.
        
        Edits: 07/22/09
  - RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions. - aljordan 13:59:51 07/19/09 (4)
    Hi cics,
    
    Seger's instructions worked well regarding removing the password prompt. I am running XP SP3. Is there a link which describes the benefits of using minlogon? If not, what are the benefits?
    
    I can now boot directly into CMP critical mode, with CPlayListEditor starting automatically as you have suggested, through editing the cicsMemoryPlayer.pth file and setting startup to Process Explorer. Interestingly, the only manner I could get CPlayListEditor to start at startup was to create a batch file to start it. Referencing the command directly in cicsMemoryPlayer.pth doesn't work. I also tried hiding the command prompt that comes up from the batch file by using #H, but that keeps the batch file from being executed. Also, the cicsMemoryPlayer.pth file that came with the CMP software doesn't have a TaskManager entry in it. Do I have the correct version of the software?
    
    Thanks very much. Now I can use a headless CMP without running any sort of VNC server. I need to make a couple more tweaks to the software (add phase, fast forward and rewind buttons), and make the usability a little more self explanatory. After that I'll make it available if anyone else cares about a headless CMP.
    
    Alan
    - RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions. - cics 07:21:29 07/20/09 (3)
      Minlogon implementation for SP3 is a problem - haven't seen one yet. Improvements are very significant and I would suggest installing SP2 on your spare partition. Minlogon benefits:
      
      "Windows security overheads is reduced significantly and there's no logon prompt at startup☺ Boot time is faster. Sound improves as Windows footprint reduces (less overheads). Windows operates using '.Default' user. All user settings (Desktop, Appearence, foobar, ?) will need to be redone. It's worth rechecking all optimizations again."
      
      Windows security subsystem causes each device IO to be secure - this includes audio output. Reduction in runtime overheads is significant.
      
      Task Manager entry is not available in .pth file (as cMP internally uses Windows version). Your problem with Process Explorer is a surprise - be sure to use quotes for the program and there are no typos as cMP will not report on an error (something I want to fix in next release). #H/N/H is only applicable to RIPPER, CUE_PLAYER & PREP_PLAYER. I get cPlayListEditor to work without a .bat using the following:
      
      PROCESS_EXPLORER "java" -jar "C:\Program Files\CPlayListEditor\CPlayListEditor.jar"
      
      Power button is not available in cMP Mode. I have a HTPC which I shutdown by just holding the power button for a few seconds. Yes its a hard shutdown - I've been doing this for 1 year+ without any problems.
      - RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions. - riboge 07:53:26 07/20/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions. posted by cics on July 20, 2009 at 07:21:29
        
        I use minlogon with sp3 running cMP2 without problems on my Lenovo laptop as optimized as possible.
        
        Can you confirm Minlogon implementation steps for SP3 is same for SP2? - cics 08:32:31 07/20/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions. posted by riboge on July 20, 2009 at 07:53:26
        
        That's very good to know.
        
        RE: Can you confirm Minlogon implementation steps for SP3 is same for SP2? - riboge 09:01:15 07/20/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Can you confirm Minlogon implementation steps for SP3 is same for SP2? posted by cics on July 20, 2009 at 08:32:31
        
        Yes: boot from second non-cMP drive and substitute minlogon for winlogon all after running the registry change application. Then boot to cMP drive. Done. I suppose making the substitution when booted to safe mode from cMP drive would work just as well.
- RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions. - riboge 10:13:17 07/19/09 (8)
  As to one of your questions: You can run cPlay while in cMP mode by selecting "explore" and then starting cPlay from its folder under Program Files. When you do this cPlay is not completely optimized via cMP though it benefits generally from cMP mode.
  
  So, I believe you will need to get your program to get cMP to pass along your selection as it starts cPlay. If you find a way to do this then you could also included a way to have the selection's samplerate determine the playback rate in cPlay to be an even multiple rather than a fixed preselected rate and thus sound its best re this selection. One, but probably not the most efficient, way would be to have a routine that decides to best playback rate then changes the cPlay ini file to specify that rate so that when cMP calls cPlay it will use this amended ini.
  - RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions. - aljordan 14:29:41 07/19/09 (7)
    Hi,
    
    Cics seems to suggest that as long as I can boot into CMP mode, have CMP start my playlist editor, and have my playlist editor start CPlay, CPlay should be optimized.
    
    "One, but probably not the most efficient, way would be to have a routine that decides to best playback rate then changes the cPlay ini file to specify that rate so that when cMP calls cPlay it will use this amended ini."
    
    Hey, this is a pretty good idea. The only problem is that there is nothing in my program that keeps someone from building a playlist out of songs with differing sampling rates. Maybe I'll start by trying it as a manner to automatically configure the sampling rate of CPlay based on the sampling rate of the file, as I don't care for upsampling so much. Also, the only time I read sampling rates is when I am reading the embedded tags of FLAC files. I have to see if I can get the sampling rate of WAV files.
    
    Thanks for the idea,
    Alan
    - RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions. - riboge 15:07:46 07/19/09 (6)
      You should be able to get samplerates for WAVs as foobar certainly can and lists it under properties. I just added a column for it that works for WAVs in playlist display using %samplerate%.
      
      You're right that if the playlist lists files with different samplerates, you would probably just get that of the first file entered into cPlay ini, but that is better than nothing since cPlay has a fixed rate in any case, so suboptimal for many of the files either way. This way at least one file will be played the way you want. You can't get cPlay not to upsample unless you are willing to see any files in the playlist at greater than 44.1 downsampled. for an upsampler like me, it is just a matter of selecting 176.4 or 192, whichever is a multiple of the samplerate.
      - RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions. - aljordan 15:26:15 07/19/09 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions. posted by riboge on July 19, 2009 at 15:07:46
        
        "You should be able to get samplerates for WAVs as foobar certainly can and lists it under properties. I just added a column for it that works for WAVs in playlist display using %samplerate%"
        
        Foobar is written in C++. My app is written in Java and is using the JAudioTagger library to get tagging information from FLAC and other files that support tags. I don't really want to write my own library to go poking through WAV files if I don't have to. I can find a bunch of supporting libraries in C++, but not much in Java. If I were a C++ programmer I would be writing the player, not the playlist browser.
        
        RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions. - riboge 17:03:19 07/19/09 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions. posted by aljordan on July 19, 2009 at 15:26:15
        
        I hadn't realized that. I see now why you are reluctant. All I can do is plead on behalf of the many who use flacs with cPlay that adding the dynamic rate setting to what you are working on would be a much appreciated improvement. Also, perhaps cics or somebody else can suggest a manageable way to obtain samplerates for WAV files as well.
        
        RE: Ive found some decent examples, please tell me... - aljordan 17:57:05 07/19/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions. posted by riboge on July 19, 2009 at 17:03:19
        
        Ok, I take it that you want the sampling rate info on Recursive Cue Creator, because it already exists for FLAC files in CPlaylist Editor.
        
        I found some examples of Java code that deal with WAV files. I can probably get the sampling rate info but I need to know where this information should be displayed in the CUE file. Prepended to the title?
        
        Alan
        
        RE: Ive found some decent examples, please tell me... - riboge 18:37:47 07/19/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Ive found some decent examples, please tell me... posted by aljordan on July 19, 2009 at 17:57:05
        
        Well, I most want the play rate to be dynamically set in relation to the files samplerate. Second to that, I would like as simple and short an indication of the samplerate prepended to the title, yes. For me personally, all that's needed is a 1 for 44.1 or 88.2 or 176.4 and a 2 for 48, 96 or 192--to keep it as short as possible since displaying the title is already given too little an extent in cPlay's display. Others may want it to be more specific, so the first two numbers of the samplerate could be prepended.
        
        RE: Ive found some decent examples, please tell me... - aljordan 19:02:48 07/19/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Ive found some decent examples, please tell me... posted by riboge on July 19, 2009 at 18:37:47
        
        Riboge wrote:
        
        "Well, I most want the play rate to be dynamically set in relation to the files samplerate. Second to that, I would like as simple and short an indication of the samplerate prepended to the title, yes. For me personally, all that's needed is a 1 for 44.1 or 88.2 or 176.4 and a 2 for 48, 96 or 192--to keep it as short as possible since displaying the title is already given too little an extent in cPlay's display. Others may want it to be more specific, so the first two numbers of the samplerate could be prepended."
        
        Last time we discussed this I thought you wanted sample rate for the cue sheets generated with Recursive Cue Creator. Your first sentence seems to be referring to CPlayList Editor. Your remaining sentences seem to refer to Recursive Cue Creator. Do I understand you correctly?
        
        I don't think putting a 1 or a 2 in the cue sheet title is a universally effective manner of showing the sampling rate for those who want it. If I allow an option to prepend the sampling rate, I would probably take the sampling rate, divide it by 1000, and prepending the result to the cue sheet title. Would that be acceptable?
        
        Regarding CPlayList Editor, it can already show sample rate in the track list for FLAC files, and you can name the resulting playlists anything you want, so you can already effectively add the sampling rate to the playlist title. However, it would make sense to update the ini file before launching CPlay to dynamically set the sampling rate. I'll try that when I have some time to fiddle with it.
        
        Alan
        
        RE: Ive found some decent examples, please tell me... - riboge 20:44:42 07/19/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Ive found some decent examples, please tell me... posted by aljordan on July 19, 2009 at 19:02:48
        
        If the playlist creator can bring dynamic rate setting about there is less need for the rate to be prepended in the cuesheet creator. In the meantime, yes prepend the samplerate with cuesheet creator. I was just trying to shorten the prepend from the 5 characters of such as 176.4 to something abbreviated to one or two characters, but if you feel it has to be the full monty, okay.
- RE: Finally built a CMP (of sorts). Long post with some questions. - seger 09:36:42 07/19/09 (2)
  Automatic Logon
  1. Run: control userpasswords2
  2. Highlight your user name in the list
  3. Clear the "Users must enter a user name and password to use this computer" check box, and then click Apply.
  4. In the Automatically Log On window do not type a password. Click OK.
  5. Click OK to close the User Accounts window.
  6. Restart Computer.
  
  Very interested in your upcoming comparisons.
  - RE: Thanks Seger - aljordan 12:12:46 07/19/09 (1)
    Hi Seger,
    
    Thanks, this works great. It may be a bit before I get around to comparisons because I'll want to listen to this long enough to get to a feel for it, but I'll let you as they happen.
    
    Alan
    - RE: Thanks Seger - seger 09:26:29 07/20/09 (0)
      Autologon is great while you get everything set up, and do various optimizations. When everything is tested and running well, do minlogon last of all. Here's the link to the short way - (the safe mode option is best) http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=pcaudio&n=40869&highlight=Easy+Minlogon&r=
      
      Be careful, a mistake will tie Windows in a knot. Good thing to have multiple systems on the computer - you can correct most mistakes from one of the functioning systems.
      
      And yes, it should be fine with SP3 - I have a couple of SP3 systems running minlogon.
cPlay -alternative to ASIO output ? - play-mate 01:36:45 07/08/09 (3)
is there anyway that cPlay can output kernel streaming or output in any alternative mode?

in my current setup, cPlay is connected to JACK audio which forwards the signal to thuneau´s allocator and then via ASIO to the lynx two B soundcard.
this constellation works fine, but unfortunately there is no way to activate the JACK when running cMP.

any ideas are highly appreciated !
- Jack ASIO driver must be used in your x-over setup - cics 08:34:43 07/08/09 (2)
  Challenge is getting Jack and Allocator running in cMP. For now keep both lsass and svchost suspends to "No".
  
  After cMP starts, you'll need to manually start Jack and Allocator before cPlay. Post your .bat or shell scripts that you're currently using - this will give me an idea of how to get it working in cMP.
  - RE: Jack ASIO driver must be used in your x-over setup - play-mate 16:55:55 07/08/09 (1)
    hey cics
    
    thanks very much for your reply.
    you´re absolutely right : it is a challenge to get that jack / allocator thing working in cMP !
    the main issue is is that jack needs a signal from cPlay to make the connection, otherwise it cannot "see" it.
    
    the .bat file that connects it looks like this (ignore the german command typo) :
    
    Option Explicit
    Dim WshShell
    Set WshShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
    
    WshShell.Run """C:\Programme\Jack v1.90\jackstart""",1,False
    
    WScript.Sleep 5000
    
    WshShell.Run """C:\Programme\cics Play\cicsPlay.exe"" C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\ego\Eigene Dateien\adele - 19.cue",1,False
    
    WScript.Sleep 1000
    
    WshShell.Run """C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\ego\Desktop\Allocator1.0.15\Allocator.exe""",1,False
    
    WScript.Sleep 1000
    
    WshShell.Run """C:\Programme\Jack v1.90\Connect""",1,False
    - RE: Jack ASIO driver must be used in your x-over setup - cics 19:12:33 07/08/09 (0)
      Try the following:
      
      Create "jack.bat" file in your c:\ root drive (c:\jack.bat) and copy the following commands into it:
      
      @echo off
      start /realtime c:\progra~1\jackv1~1.90\jackstart
      ping -n 6 127.0.0.1 > nul
      start /realtime c:\progra~1\cicspl~1\cicsPlay.exe %1
      ping -n 2 127.0.0.1 > nul
      start /realtime c:\dokume~1\desktop\alloca~1.15\Allocator.exe
      ping -n 2 127.0.0.1 > nul
      start /b /realtime C:\progra~1\jackv1~1.90\connect
      
      The "ping" command emulates sleep. I'm guessing the dos short name that is used in your pc. To test this works, from explorer, right-click on a cue sheet and select "open with" where you can then select "c:\jack.bat". If shortnames are not correct, in a command prompt, use "dir /x" command to list the files/folders together with shortnames which you can use to edit above.
      
      Change CUE_PLAYER directive in "cicsMemoryPlayer.pth" as follows:
      
      CUE_PLAYER #N "c:\jack.bat" %C
      
      Note: if you change #N with #H the command window is hidden.
      
      Test in cMP as follows:
      
      Set lsass and svchost to suspend "No"
      
      Set Optimise to "Player"
      
      Play any cue sheet
      
      To play another, you must manually stop & exit Jack and Allocater before staring next selection (we can automate this later)
I have very good power cord on my cmp2 pc...but... - theob 09:10:52 07/07/09 (0)
...I have a separate linear power supply on my cpu (p4), I have hd's on gd's and my juli@ card digital ps on batteries. Since I am running digital out to my Benchmark what is drawing power on my pc from my antec? If nothing substantive I will move my 'good power cord' onto my cpu linear ps.

BTW I put some black goo-ey damping compound on my juli@ card clock chip---nice sq improvement. Thanks to gstew for this one.
Passive cooling for E7300 - DeDe 08:25:06 07/07/09 (3)
Could I solicit your thoughts and experience in connection with passive cooling for the E7300 CPU on a Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L mother board. The Thermalright SI-128 originally suggested by Cics is discontinued. I'd welcome some recommendations for other passive coolers which have been found to work okay.
- RE: Passive cooling for E7300 - GStew 11:17:04 07/08/09 (0)
  I recently bought the SI-128 here.
  
  Greg in Mississippi
  - http://www.quietpcusa.com/Thermalright-SI-128-SE-Quiet-CPU-H (Open in New Window)
- RE: Passive cooling for E7300 - Frodan 14:24:10 07/07/09 (1)
  I use the SilverStone Nitrogon cooler without the fan with an E7200 cpu and it works great.
  Daniel Gauthier
  Montreal Canada
  
  Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L, E7200, 2 x 1 gig HyperX LL Memory, Antec SLP-450WR PSU, WinXP sp3 on Compact Flash Drive, Jili@ Analog Out direct to Electrocompaniet Ampliwire II Amplifier, Apogée Convergence Speakers
  - RE: Passive cooling for E7300 - nagual19 03:23:32 07/08/09 (0)
    I use the Thermalright AXP-140 , it seems that it is the successor to the Thermalright SI-128... It is recommended for HTPC use by Thermalright itself. I have E7300 @ 1.050Mhz and with 0,9 Voltage and have temps @ 40°Celsius
    
    Look here
    http://www.thermalright.com/new_a_page/product_page/cpu/axp140/product_cpu_axp140.html
Switched Mode PSU - Mr Underhill 21:35:35 07/06/09 (1)
Many HiFi companies have an aversion to SMPS, stating that they adversely effect the produced sound quality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched-mode_power_supply

Over the last couple of years a number have started producing components, notably Naim, having claimed to have 'solved' inherent issues. I thought I'd do a bit of digging and found:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-100095.html

One poster claims that a standard mobo will contain four built in SMPS - which appears to make this line of enquiry moot.

Any other thoughts / experiences?

M
- read docs, read here. nt - steppe 03:52:05 07/07/09 (0)
  *
The M Word - Mr Underhill 21:18:12 07/06/09 (1)
Dear Cics,

Looking up the cost of the HD160XT I found it was 2/3rds of the way to a Mac-Mini, and felt it would be daft to not at least seriously consider it.

I posted threads on two different sites:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2067843&tstart=15

and

http://www.123macmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23790

To which I got a total number of replies of 0, nice round number.

Maybe folks who buy the MM just don't want to hack it.

This machine does bundle a lot of functionality into a small box. Did / have you considered it? Thoughts?

Thx,

M
- RE: The M Word - cics 17:46:07 07/07/09 (0)
  Windows continues to dominate the market and will yield excellent results if setup correctly. If one compares Windows to Mac straight out of the box, Mac is likely to give better results. Same applies to Linux.
  
  NT kernel as used in XP is excellent but unfortunately the amazing amount of bloat added requires attention. Fortunately this can be corrected as we do here (and more). The level of changes and with cMP, the need for a real time OS is removed.
  
  A key disadvantage to Mac is the hardware platform - this is not as flexible, e.g. BIOS. There's a workaround to this by using Hackintosh.
Current Specs - Mr Underhill 14:07:15 06/29/09 (2)
Hi cics,

I'm going to build one of your players. I've downloaded the current docs, which were last updated in 2007.

I found one update thread above.

Could you confirm what current MOBO & CPU you rec?
Still 1GB ram in slot 1?
Still Juli@ Sound card?

Thx,

M
- RE: Current Specs - cics 11:26:44 06/30/09 (1)
  1. cMP 2 PDF's (1.4MB & 2.4MB). Be sure to hit "show all"
  2. The Art of building Computer Transports Version 0.3 Single PDF (4.2MB)
  3. Latest updates & hardware
  4. Latest BIOS Refinements to 3 above.
  (and yes, a new document is long overdue given all the changes...)
  
  You can use any soundcard. Juli@ is simple to use and offers excellent value. A fully modded Juli@ gets even better!
  
  Use smallest possible RAM - I use a single 256MB Kingston Valueram.
  - Thx - Mr Underhill 12:33:40 06/30/09 (0)
    Dear Cics,
    
    Thx, not only for this reply but your ongoing dedication.
    
    I am using a Meridian 596 > Benchmark DAC1, as the Meridian will output 9624, but I'm convinced that it is not passing out the best possible signal - so time to build your transport.
    
    M
Search functions in cMP (cross posting from cPlay thread) - Frodan 15:23:44 06/24/09 (0)
In Reply to: RE: SONGWRITER must be used for "Composer" function in cMP posted by cics on June 19, 2009 at 01:54:17

I have a few suggestions on how to implement the songwriter tag in cMP2. I would like other cMP users to add their comments to this post as well. I also have slightly modified the suggestion and edited the original post as well.

- 1. Have an ini setting to turn it on or off, Songwriter=True.

- 2. If it's on, you could have 4 buttons along the bottom for searching:

IF Songwriter=.F.
- Show buttons as they are now.

ELSE Songwriter=.T.
- IF button = GENRE --> After selecting a GENRE offers a list by
- - SONGWRITER, after selecting a SONGWRITER, offers a list by TITLE,
- - then offers a list by PERFORMER.

- ELSE IF button = TITLE --> After selecting a TITLE, offers a list by
- - SONGWRITER, after selecting a SONGWRITER, then offers a list by
- - PERFORMER.

- ELSE IF button = SONGWRITER --> After selecting a SONGWRITER, offers a
- - list by TITLE, after selecting a TITLE, offers a list by PERFORMER.

- ELSE IF button = PERFORMER --> After selecting a PERFORMER, offers a
- - list by SONGWRITER, after selecting a SONGWRITER, offers a list by
- - TITLE.
- ENDIF
ENDIF

BTW I love the fact that with a keyboard one can type the first few letters of a search and cMP goes directly to the first entry that starts with those letters. It makes things a little easier when navigating though a collection of 1000 titles!

Daniel Gauthier
Montreal Canada

Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L, E7200, 2 x 1 gig HyperX LL Memory, Antec SLP-450WR PSU, WinXP sp3 on Compact Flash Drive, Jili@ Analog Out direct to Electrocompaniet Ampliwire II Amplifier, Apogée Convergence Speakers
Single most beneficial tweak on cmp hardware... - theob 03:08:54 06/24/09 (0)
...is lithium ion phosphate iron batteries (LiFePO4 @3.3 v) directly soldered via wires onto juli@ sound card. Batteries are not inexpensive (about $15 each) and can be purchased from Tenergy. Charger was about $12. But the immediate effect was one of added clarity top to bottom, remarkably grain free. Very strong mids and bass. Soundstage got deeper, small details were very precisely revealed etc etc

Alfred (sonics) and hanssatink were the pioneers of this mod. I believe bertel and sondale also use batteries to power the juli@ digital power supply. All these inmates have posted on this mod here in pcaudio. Pls do a search on their names to get more technical info.

But for me @ the cost of about $50 (including shipping from California) this mod is easily the most bang for the buck I have done to cmp hw. To give you some perspective, to me, its equivalent to minlogon plus the effects of a linear power supply on the cpu plus maybe a bit more. It is that good. I really value clarity in the high freqencies and wow do the batteries give it to you in abundance w/o being hard or edgy. At first it almost seems as if you lose upper frequency extension until the real thing comes along---then its OMG. Also I placed my battery tray directly on the rug covered concrete floor and initially the sound was ill defined and boomy until I isolated the battery tray throgh normal audiophile methods then it was a whole new ball game. Yes I have wires all over the place, yes it is cumbersome to keep the batteries charged to 3.2-3.4 volts---all this is a pia but it is definitely worth it.
Please indications for AMD CPU undervolting - Bibo01 23:12:00 06/21/09 (3)
I have an AMD Phenom X3 8650 CPU with an Asus M3A78-T Deluxe motherboard.
Please could someone with an AMP CPU give me some indication with real numbers for CPU speed, FSB and undervolting.
Thanks a lot
- RE: Please indications for AMD CPU undervolting - Dawnrazor 14:55:21 06/27/09 (1)
  bib,
  
  I am going by memory, but I had an AMD, and it ended up around 800-900mhz and around say .8 volts or so, which on mine was the lowest settings I could get from the ASUS board.
  - RE: Please indications for AMD CPU undervolting - Bibo01 01:05:26 07/04/09 (0)
    Thanks DR.
    
    baring in mind that I use the PC for HT as well, for CPU I went down to 960MHz (6x160) at 0.95 voltage. Voltage could go lower - it was 0.9 but I got a BSOD fiddling around around with multi-ch playback. I still need to "sort out" my 2 surr-ch.
- RE: Please indications for AMD CPU undervolting - theob 05:37:39 06/22/09 (0)
  I think the idea is to underclock, undervolt as much as possible (only limiting factor being stability of operation/ability to boot up) to lower the stress/rfi on your system. I don't know if anyone has come up with stable values for an Amd based system. You could be he first. My advice is to lower each in small increments until you reach issues of instability or cold boot.
God is in the details... - GStew 20:54:57 06/20/09 (1)
I was reminded of that tonight. I was moving my gear around to make room for one of my turntable setups, none of which have been run for several years.

Most of the work was in re-cabling / re-shelving my DVD & VHS players (yah, my system is also a sorta AV setup... But most of the time, the AV stuff is all unplugged and it mostly acts as a very hair-shirt stereo).

But I did move the cMP2 around a bit while doing the other stuff. This takes some care as my harddrive and all my linear supplies are just sitting in the case (with some care to control vibrations), but not secured.

I put it all back together (after spending some time watching/listening to couple of movies through both the DVD and VHS players... They sound pretty good when the audio output is going directly through that hair-shirt stereo setup!). And it didn't sound right... Bright, splattery, conjusted, bass didn't flow. Since I moved it around, likely stuff shifted inside. I open it up and the HDD is no longer on it's damper feet (I have the drive mounted to a block of bamboo, wrapped in ERS cloth, sitting on three Herbie's feet, and weighed down with a VPI brick-substitute made from an old laminated transformer core). I put it back in as it should be, fire it up, and the sound is back to snuff.

I'm debating moving the drive outside the case if I can come up with a good mounting setup.

I'm also breaking in a couple of Hammond chokes in the AC for the dirty supplies... They're about a week into the break-in, I hear that they'll continue to change for at least another week, but I immediately heard some improvements in background blackness and bass detailing when I put them in and that has improved with break-in time. Remember, these are the dirty supplies... HDD, LCD, and the one active USB port for the mouse and touchscreen! They ARE serious linear supplies (oversized transformers & regulators, good diodes and caps, and 47,000uf caps on the raw DC) going through a 16'-long Ryland's-inspired braided extension cord to a separate AC circuit in my house as specified by cics. Shouldn't make much of a difference, huh? But it does and improving the AC filtering took it up another notch.

Some people want to use their computer to play music. They install some music software, maybe network it to other systems in their house, surf the net on it, run antivirus, let their kids use it for playing games, etc. They get one level of sound quality from this.

Other people want to setup a computer to play music. They build up a cMP2 or setup one of the many computer music playback configurations, PC, MAC, or Linex, XP, Vista, or Windows 7, whatever. They may select specific software and hardware, spend some time configuring the system to optimize it a bit, and likely use it only for music playback. They get a higher level of sound quality.

And a few people want to use a computer as component in a digital playback system. Here, they start to do the things that one would do to build a high-end CDP/DAC combo... Vibration control, optimized power supplies, radical system configuring, selected hardware, paying attention to connecting cabling, etc. I hear a lot of rewards in going this way... I won't be able to do a comparison between my cMP2 and my vinyl setup for a few more weeks, but my cMP2 is definitively besting all of my previous digital playback setups in every way. Yah, it's really nice to have my entire CD library on a harddrive and accessable with a few clicks of a mouse, but it's the sound quality that makes it really worthwhile.

And at this level, virtually everything matters. God is in the details!

Lotsa fun!

Greg in Mississippi
- Greatness peeking through... - gstew 14:02:52 06/27/09 (0)
  If you haven't yet, read Theob's post about the impact converting the 3.3v on his Juli@ to battery made on his sound quality. Remember, in his setup, this is just powering the chips that receive the digital signal from the processor via the PCI buss and convert it to SPDIF. He says it made the largest impact of any single change he's made to his setup... and my experience with upgrading power supplies has me understand what he's talking about.
  
  If the cMP2 setup with cPlay makes a PC-based digital playback sound good, upgrading the power supplies takes it to another realm entirely. I had a similar experience to Theob's when I powered my Juli@ from independent linear supplies with high-quality regulators... in my setup, only one other upgrade's sonic differences were in that realm of magnitude and that was when I added a linear supply to the P4 and the linear/hybrid supply with the modified PicoPSU to the ATX24.
  
  As I've been listening to my system over the past several days (after putting the GA-G31M-S2L back from the comparison to the ES2L), I am struck by a couple of things:
  
  1. My collection of music has gotten larger. Strange, huh? But recordings that were dogs before sound ok or sometimes pretty good now. Good recordings sound phenomenal. And really good recordings still sound phenomenal. The range of levels of sound quality has shrunk... the poorer ones are smoother, more detailed, more musically satisfying & involving then they ever were with any of my CD setups.Good ones still sound very good and have improved too, but not to the level of magnitude that the poorer ones have improved. So I now have a bunch of recordings that were 'bottom of the pile' that are now interesting both sonically and musically.
  
  2. I'm much more interested in listening to music than fiddling with hardware or software. I have a BUNCH of things lined up to test:
  
  - More stringent comparison between my linear 'dirty' supplies and the original Granite Digital units to determine if one particular dirty unit makes more difference than the others.
  - Adding caps on the Granite Digital units to see what difference that makes.
  - Comparing my Ryelands-inspired seriously-braided extension cord to the 'dirty supplies' to the cheap store-bought unit I used before to better access the differences.
  - Assessing the impact of the now-broken-in choke filters on the 'dirty supplies' AC and if the inline filter I used before still makes a worthwhile difference with the chokes.
  - Further motherboard comparisons... GA-G31M-S2L vs GA-G31M-ES2L vs GA-EG45M-UD2H with additional configuring on the two new boards.
  - Further memory comparisons... ValuRAM vs HyperX vs Mushkin.
  - cPlay 2.0b27 vs 2.0b26... in my setup, at first listen, I preferred b26 as it gave more PRAT and musical involvement. But I never spent the time to try and optimize the settings on b27.
  - SOX. I'm still using SRC and haven't even tried SOX yet.
  - Battery on the Juli@ 3.3v line. I did get one of the 3.3v LiFePO4 cells to try here... heck, I have a ton of serious high-current/high-capacity LiPo packs from my model airplane hobby and I really need to try battery power on various rails on this thing. I know good results can be achieved with either battery or AC power... but it'd be nice to reduce the sonic difference I get from the varying quality of the AC line during various times of the day.
  
  Plus I have a bunch of projects lined up around my cMP... Main among them are trying Bertel's switched-over linear supplies using relays and building a custom case. Plus my I2S DAC sounds like it should really be here in the next week or so and I'm getting some different and highly-regarded regulators to try out on the Juli@. Also I want to try comparisons of my custom linear supplies to some of the lab linear supplies others have used... and I'm very interested to hear what hfavandepas finds out about whether the lower-power PicoPSUs do a direct pass-through of the 12v.... this is possibly a good, easy-to-implement improvement.
  
  Some of these will help us understand what's important in a cMP2.... others will help determine what hardware is best to use, especially that some parts are no longer easily available... some have the promise of further catapulting the sound quality of a cMP2 to the another level. I'm a tweak and I should be jumping up to run through all of them!
  
  But right now, I just want to go and listen to my system and discover those recordings that I didn't pay much attention to before because they sounded bad or weren't musically interesting.
  
  Such is the sound of greatness peeking through!
  
  Greg in Mississippi
  
  P.S. Many thanks to all the heros and pioneers in this saga... cics for the concept and all the hard work developing this, Rick Mc for being the pioneer who championed this to me, Ryeland, Bertel, hfavandepas, and Peter Daniel (from the DIYAudio list) for their work in improving the system's power supplies, and abysstw for working out the basic BIOS settings on the GA-EG45M-UD2H. Thanks all, I haven't had this much fun in audio for many, many years.
Which capacity batterie for cMP HTPC - hanssatink 06:05:23 06/20/09 (4)
Hi all,

I am rebuilding my PSU for feeding my cMP pc with 12V batterie.
Will post some pictures when i am finished.

I doubt what capacity batterie i should need for listening 4-5 hours before the need of charging.

Should 50ah be enough? Eanyone got any experience with this?
i suppose a gel or traction batterie should be the best choice.
- RE: Which capacity batterie for cMP HTPC - Bertel 11:58:52 06/21/09 (3)
  Hans,
  
  congrats for deciding on batteries! :-)
  
  The proper capacity for listening for 4-5 hours without charging depends I'd say on a number of factors:
  
  - What parts of the PCs power supply are you willing to power with batteries? Only P4, or also P24, or even the "dirty supplies" etc.?
  
  - You write "cMP HTPC" - how close is your system to the "recommended" setup, i.e. what CPU / RAM / PCI cards / software do you run, and which file formats do you use etc.? I assume that the "HT" (=Home Theatre) part in "cMP HTPC" might require additional calculation ontop of a "standard" cMP setup's power consumption.
  
  For a "standard/recommended" cMP setup, you could use two methods of calculation to get the current draw:
  
  - A rather exact one for every line involved, looking at the various measurements that have been made on P4 and P24 consumption. Here you have ~350mA @ 12V on P4 = 4.2Watt, and ~140mA @ 12V plus ~300mA @ 3.3V plus ~4200mA @ 5V on P24 = 1.7 + 1 + 21 Watt = 23.7Watt, or 27,9Watt in total. Once you power all that with 12V batteries (e.g. P24 through a picoPSU), you have a current draw of 27.9Watt / 12V = 2.3A
  
  - In cics' currently recommended setup with parameters set as specified, he says "power consumption will be below 20Watt", so 20Watt / 12V = 1.7A
  
  Now you have to consider the discharge characteristics of the batteries you intend to use. If you e.g. take Panasonics 7.2Ah 12V VRLA model (LC-R127R2P), it will provide a terminal voltage of ~12V for ~60mins / ~90mins at 2.3A / 1.7A . So in case of these batteries you could use 5 or 6 of them in parallel and be quite safe for 4-5hrs, plus reducing the overall internal resistance to acceptable levels.
  
  I myself tend to extreme solutions ;-) so I would recommend to use just 2 of Panasonics 28Ah 12V batteries (price ~100EUR, so still acceptable) - their terminal voltage falls below 12V at ~2A discharge current after ~600mins, so you're really safe plus you get a decent internal resistance - which I would strongly recommend to combine with proper capacitance following the batteries anyway!
  
  Hope that helps
  Robert
  - RE: Which capacity batterie for cMP HTPC - hanssatink 12:24:27 06/21/09 (2)
    Robert,
    Thanks.
    I use the GA-EG45M-UD2H mobo with 1 gig mushkin em2-6400. HDD's are external. Feeding Juli@ with dual Lipofer and using M4-ATX picpsu for 5 and 3.3V. All lines buffered with 10.000uf (Panasonics FM/FC). I have planned to feed all the 12 volt lines (P4+p24) direct analog from the batterie with use of a a low drop voltage regulator. (see attachment). I am building it all together in one desktopcase. Its pretty hard to make an easy switch between listening and charging.
    You talk about dirty lines. What do you mean by that? Are the 12, 5 and 3,3 volt seperate lines not internally connected on the mobo?
    
    Edits: 06/21/09 06/21/09 06/21/09
    - RE: Which capacity batterie for cMP HTPC - Bertel 12:58:11 06/21/09 (0)
      Hans,
      looks interesting! Although I would not want to go for the picoPSU since it is just another switching PSU (although a good one) for 3.3V and the main workhorse 5V, so nothing much gained, this certainly is a good solution. But please take care: From the MIC29502BT's datasheet I see that it needs a "voltage difference" of 350-370mV, so when you want to output 11.93V as has been recommended for optimal SQ, the batteries' terminal voltage needs to stay over 11.93V + .37V = 12.3V. Unfortunately that's a figure the datasheets for the batteries' discharge rates usully don't give you clearly. So with the above mentioned 2 x 28Ah or your suggested 50Ah battery, when using them fully charged you surely get decent playtime until they hit the 12.3V limit, but I doubt that this will be 4-5hrs. Unfortunately datesheets don't really help, I'm afraid you've got to try out. For this reason I use batteries with a total of 18V and a THEL regulator that needs a (quite high) minimal voltage difference of 2.5V which I have plenty, so I'm safe for a long time.
      As Theo has explained, with "dirty supplies" I meant supplies like the Granites for HDDs, USB, LCD etc., so everything else than P4 and P24. Since you say that HDDs are external, I have understood that you do not want to power them with the same 12V battery source.
      And yes, all the separate wires for the respective voltages (12V, 5V and 3.3V) are connected internally on the MoBo, multiple wires are just used to reduce cabling issues like internal resistance and heat and such.
      Regards,
      Robert
      
      Edits: 06/21/09 06/21/09
    - RE: Which capacity batterie for cMP HTPC - theob 12:47:08 06/21/09 (0)
      Hopefully robert won't object to my attempt at an answer---dirty was a term originated by cics to collectively describe power supplies for sata drives, displays, dvd/cd drives, powered mice or peripheral items that 'dirty up' the power supply for major items like cpu/sound cards.
3rd generation Gigabyte Ultra Durable MoBos - again! - play-mate 08:46:15 06/16/09 (1)
hey cMP fans !

has anyone got any experience with these new "Ultra Durable" boards yet ?
Kristian has asked before, but maybe we can cast a little light into which of the gigabyte offerings would work well for audio.

do these boards have significant higher power requirements and different BIOS adjustments ?

I´m not doing a straight memory player, as the board has to drive my Lynx Two B card too.
-any thoughts are very welcome.
- RE: 3rd generation Gigabyte Ultra Durable MoBos - again! - GStew 10:09:15 06/16/09 (0)
  GA-EG45M-UD2H
  
  It holds a lot of promise. I'm hoping that a new BIOS update will be available soon that will allow a better setup using this card. I hope to do another comparison in the next couple of weeks.
  
  See here:
  
  http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=53247
  
  And here:
  
  http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=51459
  
  And here:
  
  http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=51362
  
  Greg in Mississippi
What are you guys using for memory? - Dawnrazor 20:30:02 06/06/09 (9)
I just ordered all the parts for a proper cmp box and I just couldn't find some of the recommended memory or 256mb for that matter.

Where is a source for some low latency stuff?

I ended up getting some brand I had never heard of (always used kingston or kingston hyperx) but I think it had decent timings. If anyone has a better option please let me know
- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231 (Open in New Window)
- Thanks everyone, one more question. - Dawnrazor 21:40:05 06/08/09 (5)
  what is more important, low latency or smaller memory size, if one has to pick?
  - RE: Thanks everyone, one more question. - Ryelands 03:26:09 06/09/09 (1)
    Dawnrazor wrote:
    
    " "What is more important, low latency or smaller memory size, if one has to pick?"
    
    I'd say latency, every time. I'm convinced it's a critical parameter for RAM in a slow computer.
    
    As you know, memory is slow compared to processors with a trade-off between clock speed and latency. RAM able to "keep up with" a fast CPU needs more cycles to do so - i.e. it generally has a higher latency than RAM that can only keep up with a slower device. (Not all slow RAM inevitably has low latencies but low latency RAM will be on the slow side.)
    
    As you are slowing down the CPU to lower RFI (watch out for the Herz Police), there is no need for fast RAM but there is benefit to be had from low latency. OTOH, the extra power drawn by larger capacity chips is modest.
    
    Back in January, I asked inmates "Does RAM quality matter?" and got some interesting replies (and a few witty ones, as you'd expect). Eventually, I changed the RAM in my cMP2 box for Kingston KHX6400D2UL/1G (2 x 512 MB, 3-3-3-10) as recommended by, I think, carcass93 and adjusting settings as suggested by (again, I think) Greg to 3-3-3-6. The difference was clearly audible.
    
    The above is only a hypothesis (OK, a guess) though I find it credible. However, even with the same latency spec, different makes of RAM do seem to sound different. As to why that is, I'm at a loss.
    
    Hope that helps,
    
    Dave
    - Does RAM quality matter? (Open in New Window)
    - I was not recommending, just reporting - rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com 08:23:59 06/09/09 (0)
      I am under the impression that cics is using the Kingston 256 and
      I use it because of that. I figured that was what was wanted.
      
      I have not tried many others, other that the HYPERX 512 which was the previous recommendation. I think the 256 is better in my system
      
      Nonetheless, I have always, simply, followed cics's formula since I wanted to hear what he was hearing.
      
      If he has made a subsequent recommendation I have missed it!
  - RE: Thanks everyone, one more question. - seger 03:18:00 06/09/09 (2)
    If you want to use 256MB RAM DDR2, go with the Kingston Value RAM that Rick recommended - you'll find there aren't many others available anyway.
    
    If you want to use 512MB, you have more choice, so look for CL4 (CAS Latency 4) RAM sticks - Kingston and Corsair have been good for me. Very hard (impossible?) to find the CL3 Kingston that cics first recommended, but the CL4 RAM will easily run at CAS latency 3 when you have underclocked your system as per latest cMP specs.
    
    Avoid CL5 RAM - I haven't tried it, but others report bad sound - no surprise.
    
    As for which sounds better - the differences are small, and may depend on your luck with the individual RAM module you get. They are so cheap, get a few and pick the best one!
    - RE: Thanks everyone, one more question. - abysstw 13:33:39 07/07/09 (1)
      Might want to try out the Winchip DDR2 512MB RAM rated at 1200MHz CL5. I think it sounds noticeably better than my Team DDR2 512MB CL3 800MHz, and I favor it over ValueRAM after the b27 release.
      - RE: Thanks everyone, one more question. - theob 14:17:35 07/07/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Thanks everyone, one more question. posted by abysstw on July 07, 2009 at 13:33:39
        
        Let me undestand you substituted the Winchip DDR2 512MB RAM rated at 1200MHz CL5 for your Team and Value ram and it clearly was the winner. Is that right? Did you leave all your bios voltage settings same? How did it sound better? Please say more.
- the recommended 256 is no longer available at NEWEGG - rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com 09:58:34 06/07/09 (2)
  that is for sure.
  
  This seems to me to be these most similar, though it is 512.
  
  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820144165
  
  There is always EBAY, though I cannot remember the model # of the KINGSTON 256 - if you do not know it I can look it up. Just let me know. Should be somewhere in the thread.
  
  Bye,
  
  Rick McInnis
  - Here is one offer on EBAY - rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com 10:04:59 06/07/09 (1)
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Kingston-KVR533D2N4-256-256MB-Memory_W0QQitemZ160174667885QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item254b27786d&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
    
    This is the good one.
    
    Kingston-KVR533D2N4-256-256MB - the model number to look for.
    - RE: Here is one offer on EBAY - GStew 10:43:00 06/07/09 (0)
      Thanks for the head's up!
      Another that works pretty well and is preferred by some is the Mushkin 512Mb 512MB EM2-6400 5-5-5-18 1.8V available directly from them for about $12.
      Then the ThermalRight SI-128 SE is also discontinued, but I found them in stock at http://www.quietpcusa.com/index.aspx.
      And finally, I've found the Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L on EBay recently too.
      Oops, almost forgot... Juli@'s seem to be getting rare too. I wanted to pick up another spare and have been watching Ebay for a couple of weeks... and just about a week ago, the number listed on Ebay diminished and the cost went up from about $130 to $175. But searching via Google, many places indicate that they have it in stock.
      Greg in Mississippi
      
      Edits: 06/07/09 06/07/09
cMP and HTPC - Bibo01 13:43:27 05/27/09 (6)
My initial aim has been to build a HTPC capable of playing 2ch music and 5.1 movies at the best possible level.
Like many others I have built a PC following cics's "The Art of Building (AOB) Computer Transports” version 0.3 and cMP Installation Guide & User Manual documents. I followed the notes closely and implemented almost all settings.
I employ a LynxTwo-B card. Through the use of Thuneau's Allocator as XO, Jack Audio Kit, J River MC and ASIO driver (with the help of a few inmates to whom I am grateful) I managed to active bi-amp my speakers for 2ch listening, although not in cMP mode. The use of ASIO is recommended by cics's notes and...well, almost everybody.
I would also like to keep the above two main speakers configuration for multi-channel listening as Front-L/R, because it would be unpractical to recable for movie playback. cMP's Installation Guide in its Sample HTPC chapter briefly mentions that "given its open architecture, cMP can be used successfully for playing movies. Excellent results have been gained using Power DVD." I have tried that unsuccessfully - I must say, however, that I was not in cMP mode.
It seems to me that all DVD/movie players around employ DirectSound whereas for the aforementioned software I require ASIO. The only player that comes close to it, and yet so far, is VLC with its supposed compatibility with PortAudio. Unfortunately - from the voice of one of the developers - "the PortAudio used in VLC might be built without Jack support. AFAIK ASIO support is also missing from portaudio used in VLC."
Does cMP manage to play movies through ASIO which is normally used in its music delivery? The fact that an ISO file is loaded into memory shouldn't make it capable of playing through ASIO...
Please give me any kind of help for reaching movie playback... Otherwise, after putting a lot of time, money and effort, I will have to give up on active bi-amping and digital XO which was one of the main reasons for building a cMP-like HTPC in the first place.
I thank you in advance for your help and, above all, for this project and everybody who put effort into it.

Edits: 05/27/09
- RE: cMP and HTPC - monaco 02:43:08 05/28/09 (1)
  Hi Bibo01,
  
  In advance of an expert reply from cics:
  
  cMP is not a player - it is in effect a shell programme which removes unwanted XP services, loads the chosen file into memory and launches the appropriate player e.g foobar 2000 or cPlay for music
  
  It is cPlay which requires an ASIO interface to work - not cMP. The cMP options menu allows you to nominate RAM load or not and identify which services you suspend when in cMP mode.
  
  Follow the guidelines and modify the .pth file to nominate your player for dvd's. Do not forget cMP works from cue files.
  
  good luck
  - RE: cMP and HTPC - Bibo01 03:06:10 05/28/09 (0)
    Yes, I was aware of that.
    Sorry, I did not express myself properly.
- RE: cMP and HTPC - cics 02:40:16 05/28/09 (3)
  Does cMP manage to play movies through ASIO which is normally used in its music delivery? The fact that an ISO file is loaded into memory shouldn't make it capable of playing through ASIO...
  
  cMP will not dictate audio output settings. I use a separate cMP for DVDs with 1TB of storage. In your case, you could use one cMP but this would require switching players (via .pth) file for Music and Movies. Your idea of using ASIO is very good if only you can find a DVD player that supports ASIO. This way, main L&R channels remain as is whilst additional channels are used for movies. You may want to look into Zoom Player.
  
  Also, do not RAM load ISO files - they way too large.
  - RE: cMP and HTPC - Bibo01 09:19:55 05/28/09 (0)
    cics,
    
    You as developer of cPlay, is a multi-channel version of cPlay totally impossible supporting therefore ASIO? :)
    I suppose you get into a labbyrint of A/V codecs...
  - RE: cMP and HTPC - Bibo01 03:17:44 05/28/09 (1)
    I am prepared to switch players for Music and for Movies.
    Unfortunately, as you say "Your idea of using ASIO is very good if only you can find a DVD player that supports ASIO".
    That is a huge "ONLY".
    It means that Music player would use ASIO and Movie player would use DirectSound. It also means that my 2ch configuration - bi-amp + digital XO - is not feasable.
    I did have a look at Zoom Player, but it does not support ASIO. Actually, other people requested it but developers do not seem too interested in that.
    It looks like I have reached the end of the road! :((
    I am now looking into the possibility of entering the PC with an external DVD player and come out through ASIO...I wander if it is possible?!
    
    Edits: 05/28/09
    - RE: cMP and HTPC - flipper 03:42:18 08/24/09 (0)
      J River media centre has ASIO output with DVD's.
cPlay will not launch in cmp mode ! - play-mate 19:21:46 05/24/09 (4)
dear cmp fans !

I have tremendous joy of using cPlay (2.0b25) in my setup with jack audio kit to connect to a digital XO by thuneau and further on via ASIO to my lynx twoB card,
-but I´m still struggling to get the full cMP2 mode in operation.
I´ve copied the .pth file from cPlay into the memory player folder, but cPlay does not want to launch.
in settings "real-time" and "critical" diagnostics say player exited and tread to null.
in "player" setting it will just not load/be visible...

-any ideas of whats going wrong ?

any hint is highly welcome !

kind regards leif
- Is this only in cMP Mode or also with XP Mode? - cics 09:21:18 05/25/09 (3)
  With cMP 1.2, the default player is cPlay (no need to copy the .pth file).
  
  In either case, cMP expects to find cPlay in its default installation folder (c:\program files\cics play). If this is different, you need to change the .pth file (to new cPlay folder).
  
  The other reason why cPlay will not start is if you are using the wrong version. If your CPU only does SSSE3, and you installed SSE4, cplay exists immediately.
  - diagnostics say : - play-mate 16:09:28 05/25/09 (1)
    RAM loading file "c/......." wav size 440MB
    
    processed to 10 MB
    processed to 20 MB
    processed to 30 MB
    .......
    processed to 440 MB
    
    Player started.
    
    Task=#N "c:/ program files/cicsPlay.exe"%C
    Player Process Affinity:system 0x0012F 1A8 before 0x00000040 after 0x0012FA8
    Player optimation by Player
    => Player exited
    player action completed
    
    ....does that make sense cics ?
    - RE: diagnostics say : - cics 16:56:31 05/25/09 (0)
      Set RAM Load to NO (cPlay RAM loads internally).
      
      Diagnostics should look something like this:
      
      Request to play:
      
      [ Andrea Bocelli - Romanza ]
      
      Player started.
      Task = #N "c:\program files\cics Play\cicsPlay.exe" %C
      Player Process Affinity: system 0x00000003 before 0x00000001 after 0x00000003
      Player optimisation by Player.
      
      ==> Player exited.
      
      Play action completed.
      
      Notice the "Task" folder is different to yours. Change your cicsMemoryPlayer.pth (in C:\Program Files\cics Memory Player) "CUE_PLAYER" line to:
      
      CUE_PLAYER #N "c:\program files\cics Play\cicsPlay.exe" %C
      
      What worries me is your affinity values: 0x00000040 & 0x0012F1A8 - these are garbage!
  - both modes - play-mate 14:26:58 05/25/09 (0)
    hey cics
    
    thanks for your reply.
    
    in both xp and cMP mode the player will not launch. I can swop between them in different windows. cPlay is definitely running. cMP loads the selected album from it´s panel but does not show cPlay when booted to cMP.
    
    i have figured out that the tread in the .pth file in 1.2 is towards cPlay.
    my Intel E7300 does support the SSE4.1 !
    
    what am I doing wrong ??
    
    did almost finish the BIOS settings this evening and experienced another few increments of quality playback....this project is just soo competent in regards to high-fidelity !
    profoundly "emotional" as you say, cics !
    
    kind regards
cMP Error - cktc 00:37:36 05/15/09 (1)
I just installed cMP, it has error "Process: explorer.exe Terminated.
ERROR: Unable to get Access privileges.
optimiseProcesses: Cannot Set Access priviledges. Play CD failed."
I'm using Vista-64. Does anyone know how to fix it?
- RE: cMP Error - seger 07:20:35 05/15/09 (0)
  You are starting out with the most difficult operating system for cMP. If you can't use XP, move up to Windows 7 - a more hospitiable environment for cMP than Vista. (Current Vista users take note: you can add any folders to the cMP library - not just from the Desktop!!)
  
  I could never get to cMP-mode with Vista 64, so left it, but even with the basic mode you have problems to overcome. First, get control of Vista - turn off UAC, but that isn't enough - you have to enable the real Administrator account and run everything from there. Second, I think the cicsMemoryPlayer folder needs to be in the "Program Files (x86)" directory not the "Program Files" directory, and then you have to edit the cicsMemoryPlayer.pth file: CUE_PLAYER line has to go to "Program Files (x86)". Third, you have to optimize the Vista system as outlined by cics before using cMP.
  
  Really, don't waste your time with 64 unless you have no other choice. XP is best, followed by Windows 7.
Anybody ever try grounding the GA-G31M-S2L mobo to a wall socket screw? - theob 07:37:41 05/09/09 (0)
I did it on a lark and a hunch and I'll be darn if it didn't make a sq improvement--small but noticeable.
P24 current measurements - Bertel 12:57:52 05/04/09 (2)
I'm in the process of going "all battery" for P24 too (P4 done), so in order to right-size the respective power lines I considered it a good idea to do a few measurements (just as Dave and Mark have done on P4). Thought I'd share if anyone else is interested - brought a few interesting insights, at least to me.
Current setup: Almost "standard" recommended cMP2 setup, i.e. Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L, E7200, 1GB Mushkin EM2-6400 [superior to ValueRam and HyperX], Lynx AES-16 [will go Juli@ w/ external 3.3V PS next week], cPlay 2.0b23 SSSE3, all optimizations incl. Minlogon done - did I forget anything...?). Measurements done with Antec Earthwatts 430 for convenience, picoPSU showed same results.
All BIOS optimizations done. CPU host frequency at 150 MHz, SPD at 2.00, Mushkin RAM timed manually at 3-3-3-7, CPU GTLREF at 0.566V, CPU Voltage at 0.76875V (it's a shame but I can't get any lower, no way system would boot then...). CPU-Z reports Core Voltage to be at 0.752V. Core Speed is 900MHz, Bus Speed is 150MHz, FSB is 600MHz.
-------------
"Special" power rails:
* 5V StandBy:
- When PS turned on before pressing Power Switch: 170mA
-> During operation (idle / playback): 50 mA
* Power_Good:
- No current could be measured with my rather "rough" multimeter -> seems that since this is a signal line, it is sufficient that just the voltage is provided with some very low current, certainly below 50mA, according to my measurements below 10-20mA, but 5V provided
* Power_On:
- Switches from 5V to 0V at startup, so not relevant here
* -12V:
- As little as ~10mA during operation
NOTE: Most important (and for me quite surprising) :
All of the above can be TURNED OFF COMPLETELY during operation, they are NOT NEEDED during playback (at least in my [recommended] setup)! I ran all of the aboce through a switch, and I could turn them off at any time even during music playback without any adverse / negative effects. Didn't expect that... ;-)
So the "relevant" lines to take care of come down to:
-------------
"Regular" power lines:
* 12V:
- Starting at 180mA at startup, quickly coming down to 140mA and staying at that level during idle and playback
* 3.3V:
- I had supposed that being the "main line", but it isn't - starting at ~300mA and staying constant at that level during idle and playback
* 5V:
- Now that's the real thing... Starting right off at 3 - 3.2A (!), going up to 3.6 - 4.2A during boot up - and breaking off as soon as cMP is loaded... This 5V line is so volatile, changing current so quickly and swiftly that it seems to not tolerate my rather "slow" multimeter - couldn't get the system up and running with the multimeter phased in - will retry with caps in place :-)
Nevertheless, the learning is: tis is the rail with the BIG draw at ~ 3.5 to 4.5A (more precise measurements to follow when caps are in place)
-------------
Hope you find this as useful as I do - did that the best I could, please notify me of any flaws or errors I made, comments highly appreciated.
Cheers,
Robert

Edits: 05/04/09 05/04/09
- RE: P24 current measurements - GStew 15:02:11 05/04/09 (1)
  Robert,
  Very useful information, sir! Thanks for doing & posting this.
  This will be very useful for creating a fully-linear computer power supply... it's clear that the 12v P4 and the 5v ATX-24 lines are two of the key 'workhorse' lines.
  One thought that may be useful for a fully linear CPS is to power each of the 5 5v lines with a separate power supply... regulator or battery. Powering them separately and measuring them separately may provide other information on how they are used and how we can best optimize each.
  Another useful technique might be to use very high-quality supplies (again, regulated or battery) for the 3.3v and 12v, since they aren't pulling a lot of amps.
  And of course, while it's useful to put additional filtering caps across each of these three voltage rails, based on your data I suspect that separate filtering caps across each of the 5 5v lines may provide additional benefits even if separate supplies are not implemented.
  Its not surprising to me that the 'special' rails can be turned off after the computer is on (In fact, I bet that you could boot the PC with the -12v and the 5v standby turned off). One thing to note, tho, is that the -12v is used by the Juli@'s analog section (although in my setup before separately powering it, I was only measuring -9v at that point on the Juli@ board.
  Two more things... give us more details on your battery-power setups, both for the P4 and the ATX-24. Then also, give us more details on the Mushkin memory... what other ones did you compare against, how is it superior to the others, and did you try other timings settings?
  Thanks for the most provocative and useful post I've seen here in a long time (of course, besides the almost 2x weekly releases of new versions of cPLAY!).
  Greg in Mississippi
  
  Edits: 05/04/09
  - RE: P24 current measurements - Bertel 20:16:42 05/04/09 (0)
    Greg,
    thank you. Yes, I'm completely with you that powering every power rail separately is a good idea - it might be a bit of overkill, but separation and elimination of interference and cross-balancing issues (quite a concern in "standard" ATX power supplies) will help bring the various components even more "at rest" and let them play as easy and effortless as possible. When I have swapped my Lynx card with Juli@ and powered it separately, P24 "only" has to power MoBo and memory (still and awfully complicated task), that'll help. I'm planning on using completely separated supplies (i.e. battery packs) for every voltage line anyway, including thorough regulating plus filtering caps - more to follow as I progress ;-)
    Regarding booting with -12V and 5V standby turned off: You'd loose your bet ;-) PS for P4 and P24 has been my special field of interest for the past weeks, and while P4 is easy, P24 needs quite some attention... As you might know, ATX standard requires a proper and quite stict power up scheme (more details can e.g. be found here: www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/ATX12V_PSDG_2_2_public_br2.pdf). 5V has to be there in the first place for the computer's power switch to have the MoBo's power control circuit (PCC) start the sequence, hold low the formerly held high 5V "Power_On" line (the green line on P24) to have the power supply ramp up the three main voltage lines and after successfully doing this issue the Power_Good signal (5V, the grey line on P24). This all has to be done in a corridor in a 100ms range with specific ramp rates, and I found the Gigabyte board be rather strict at that - I tried for weeks to emulate that timing and ramping manually (with switches and caps etc.) but didn't succeed, you need some kind of power management component to take care of this. I'm currently looking for someone to build such a power sequencing model from readily available components like Actel's Fusion or Linear Technologies' LTC2928 (cost currently quoted at 10-15k and above for developing that...), but in the meantime as a workaround just power up with my regular ATX PS (Antec) and then switch off the special rails not needed and switch over the main rails to battery power. Quite rough a method, I know, but works well for 12V and 3.3V for the time being, but still stability issues with the "workhorse" 5V rail. Will keep you updated once I have gathered more experience and details. Nevertheless, 5V standby and -12V line is a must to be present at startup, otherwise MoBo's PCC will not power up.
    Regarding my P4 battery PS: No special timing etc. issues have to be taken care of here, powering P4 is pretty easy and straightforward as many have shown us here before (many thanks for their respective guidance and information!). In my case I power this with a pack of 3 boards with 5 high-quality 1.2V/1.8Ah NiMH cells each, i.e. 18V/1.8Ah (recharged by a transformator fed into the central control unit, all of these modules are manufactured by a small local electronics company). Since the current draw is low at ~350mA during playback, this is good for a 4 hour listening session (I usually don't have that much time in one go anyway...). Power then is fed into a voltage regulator which brings it down to precisely 11.94V as measured to be optimal by Bernd and confirmed by Theo recently. Since the regulator is designed to be quite "slow" and "weak" on purpose and thus is very forgiving, large caps can follow - I run the power into 5 x 10kuF Mundorf caps followed by a 47uF cap as quick buffer and a 1uF one as bypass (I am extremely positive about the Mundorfs, can't praise them enough). this setup works like a charm without any hassle for me. While the sonic effects were rather subtle from the start, I feel it overall added transparence and clarity and ease of playing, especially in midrange and upper bass - to my ears it rather sounded a bit as I could here the processor working now without the limits of a rigid, tight and polluted power supply as before, but that's what I wanted to hear for sure ;-) That's more or less a similar setup I'll try to follow with P24 too, will let you know once I get there (will require mighty PB cells instead of the NiMH for the 5v rail though).
    Mushkin memory has been a recommendation by Alfred/sonics, so he's the one to both take the credits and comment on that in more detail. Haven't done much comparison myself - I almost exclusively play 16/44.1 WAV files upsampled to 24/192, had ValueRam 256MB before, swapped that with an "original" HyperX UL stick w/ 512MB which brought significant improvements to me , but still swapping that to the 1GB Mushkin stick made things even more "right", beautiful and in place - for me quite a substantial improvement. I started with SPD in BIOS set to "Auto", CPU-Z showed it had clocked itself in at 4-3-3-7, so the only thing I did was lower the first value (cycles) to 3 which had an unexpectedly clear effect in bringing back lateral spacing and soundstage.
    I think that's more than enough for one post now - thanks for your patience... ;-)
    Robert
    
    Edits: 05/04/09
Problem: Asus Xonar essence doesn't fit on G31M-ES2L - Apokalypse 09:12:28 05/02/09 (3)
I decided to go with the Asus Xonar essence as the sound card only to find I can't put it in the PCI-e slot because the RAM is in the way. Very disappointing to say the least.

On this site http://canhtpcbeatcd.blogspot.com/ the writer says "I feel Asus P5Q Deluxe sounds better than Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L." This board will be able to fit the Asus but doesn't have onboard video.

Does anyone have any recommendations? I'd prefer to get the Asus card to fit, but don't see how this is possible.
- RE: Problem: Asus Xonar essence doesn't fit on G31M-ES2L - GStew 12:36:55 05/03/09 (2)
  Can you post a picture to show us what you're dealing with?
  
  Greg in Mississippi
  - RE: Problem: Asus Xonar essence doesn't fit on G31M-ES2L - Apokalypse 17:23:46 05/03/09 (1)
    If you look at a pic of the motherboard you can see the PCIe slot is in line with the RAM slots. The Asus card physically won't fit in the slot because it crosses over the RAM.
    - RE: Problem: Asus Xonar essence doesn't fit on G31M-ES2L - GStew 06:19:24 05/04/09 (0)
      I've seen PCI-E adapters that allow repositioning the card (flexible connection) or turning it sideways (rigid connection). One of these should allow you to get it fitted.
      
      Sorry, don't have a specific source. Try Amazon or Newegg, search for 'PCI-E riser card'.
      
      Greg in Mississippi
Any advantages in cd audio extraxction using EAC in CMP optimized computer ? - n_vincent 06:01:58 05/01/09 (5)
I'm questioning myself about advantages in cd audio extraction using EAC in CMP optimized computer ?
I currently use EAC with my standard PC with all audio quality options on and accurate rip with a plextor px-230A cd (the best cd rom I have found for audio extraction).
The extraction is done in one file with cue file.
The audio file should be perfect.
- No advantages in cd audio extraxction using EAC in CMP optimized computer ? - Bertel 08:25:03 05/02/09 (0)
  I second cics and Greg on this:
  In theory there should not be any difference in whatever environment you run EAC (as long as it performs without error) - EAC is about EXTRACTION of data into files which are either correct or not, not the REPRODUCTION of these data, that's a completely different story as we cMP2 evangelists know so well ;-)
  In practice I didn't care about any theory but just wanted to find out and hear and so Itried it: ripped with EAC on cMP machine when I had set it up a few months ago, ripped on my standard PC and also on a very noisy old laptop computer. File comparison showed that files were identical, playback of these files brought no audible difference whatsoever at least to my ears.
  Hope this gives others a bit of the confidence it gave me that the environment for running EAC really doesn't matter.
  Regards,
  Robert
  
  Edits: 05/02/09
- RE: Any advantages in cd audio extraxction using EAC in CMP optimized computer ? - GStew 14:28:17 05/01/09 (1)
  I've been doing my ripping on a different computer than my cMP as advised by cics. I cannot think of any reason that it should make a difference... as long as you have a bit-perfect transfer to the disk, the cMP should not care where it came from. Heck, even a Mac should work ok! ;)
  
  When I do my transfer from the ripper computer to the cMP, instead of using USB, I'll take the harddrive out of my ripper & connect it as the secondary drive in my cMP (Of course, you do this with both computers off!). The SATA transfer is incomparibly faster than even a USB2 transfer.
  
  Later!
  
  Greg in Mississippi
  - I should add... - GStew 07:10:55 05/02/09 (0)
    That if you are re-ripping your music to recordable CDs, using a machine that has been optimized with cMP-styled techniques should make significant difference... but with a cMP around, who listens to CDs anymore?
    Greg in Mississippi
    P.S. I had started gathering the equipment to do this and have been very glad that the cMP was developed before I could get too far on this.
    
    Edits: 05/02/09 05/02/09
- RE: Any advantages in cd audio extraxction using EAC in CMP optimized computer ? - riboge 06:21:00 05/01/09 (1)
  I think you will find that most cMP users do their extractions on another non-dedicated computer using EAC or dbPoweramp and then transfer them to their cMP optimized setup. I don't recall reading any claims that doing it directly in cMP computer provides better results.
  - I had asked cics about this ... - rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com 08:06:55 05/01/09 (0)
    and he said he could think of no reason it would make a difference.
    
    He may have found reason to change his mind since then.
    
    I know when I started doing it on the OTHER machine and was able to use the database for names of artists and songs, I was pleased with that!
    
    I could hear nothing detrimental and sometimes wondered if something was better, which could be due to the disk drive.
    
    Once you do it this way you will never return. Just remember on the GIGABYTE board to set BIOS for USB 2 or the transfer takes forever and, of course, after you are done disable USB 2, per cics's instructions.
Storing music on two internal drives - Kristian 12:22:43 04/28/09 (1)
Some neophyte questions here. If one is to use 2.5" drives but needs more space than they offer, say 2 500G drives together, how does one do that without using RAID 0?

Or, is RAID 0 plenty reliable to do that, and if so, one then also needs a RAID controller card, right?

Alternatively, can't one use a separate case for a main 3.5" 1-1.5TB disk, powered by its own small PS and connected by E-SATA? Would that introduce its own problems?

Thanks!
- RE: Storing music on two internal drives - cics 00:31:30 04/29/09 (0)
  No need to use RAID as audio data is RAM loaded (either by cMP or directly in cPlay), i.e. no HDD traffic takes place during playback. Only remaining benefit from RAID is faster load times (bottleneck to RAM loading is HDD read speed).
  
  If you insist on using RAID then look for a mobo that offers RAID in SouthBridge chipset (avoid adding a RAID card). Gigabyte's GA-EG45M-UD2H offers RAID through ICH10R SouthBridge . This mobo may very well be the best choice - more feedback needed.
  
  Other options: rather use 2.5" 500GB drives (either internal or via eSATA). Avoid standard 3.5" drives alltogether (too noisy and you will hear it from a distance, more power consumption and greater vibrations). Best choice is SSD drives but costs needs to drop.
RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player - 57gold 11:59:34 04/25/09 (2)
Anyone out there build and set up these babies for technically challenged guys like me? Any businesses that do it?
- Building a cMP - cics 00:35:05 04/29/09 (1)
  It's not difficult doing this yourself. Many have built cMPs with minimal experience. A good place to start is your local PC Games Store - they can help with the full build (especially if they source the parts).
  - RE: Building a cMP - sonis 05:10:51 04/29/09 (0)
    Hi cics,
    i think you have resolved the remaining problems of 22. SSE4 is now useable
    and smoothness is comparable with the earlier SSE3 Versions.Low freq. are dryer ,space is the same, overall increased deteils.
Questions on deeper optimization for the knowledgeable. - steppe 09:23:20 04/25/09 (0)
Hello, everybody. Here are some questions
1. At the root of windows there is the Microsoft beloved infant-terrible, called OLE object linking & embedding Can it be safely removed with autoruns program or any other way?
2. As I haven't done ALL optims by autoruns, I decided to take a second look - cd burn, tv, windows streaming video, media player can be safely removed. Several processes like internet explorer cannot even be marked, WHY?
3. If we type msconfig in start - run, we get a prog, that enables to have different services and autorun processes to be disabled - did anyone try it?
4. As I haven't succeeded with minlogon yet, I have an "inferiority complex" and started to read deeper into Your posts. This is the last AND MOST important question - How to implement minlogon on BIOSTAR with XP SP2 and with ASIO4ALL. Is it possible? What to take care of? Please answer the last question only if You have real experience with all three at once.
Waiting for Your help.
Serge.

Edits: 04/25/09 04/25/09
Why is there a trojan in cMP? - audiozorro 07:02:23 04/25/09 (7)
I looked through the previous posts that basically said don't worry but gave no explanation.

It's my understanding that Trojan Generic is a trojan program that can contain a malware program or it can perform actions that user doesn't even notice. Trojan Generic acts very aggressive and can even destroy users computer system, steal personal data. Sometimes even antivirus programs can not delete this Trojan. Trojan Generic can look like it is desirable but actually it contains very something harmful. Trojan Generic can allow other computer users to get full access to users computer system through a security hole. Trojan Generic should be detected and deleted as soon as possible for your own safety.

So after I load cMP on someone else's computer, what do I tell them to calm their fears that I just installed the cMP_1_2_final_setup.exe that contains a trojan?
- But there IS a Virus - steppe 09:06:05 04/25/09 (1)
  It is called ahkosk or smth like that, it is discovered by Avast antivirus and is removed, but sometimes it remains, the files of virus are ntde1tect.com and autosomething. It is harmless at first, it manifests as always opening the same window after booting up, mostly C:\*folder* Also it easily migrates onto flash drive that I use for wav and cue transfer between comps.
  Serge.
  - RE: But there IS a Virus - Ryelands 01:17:45 04/26/09 (0)
    Serge wrote:
    It is called ahkosk or smth like that . . .
    Ahkosk.exe is NOT a virus or a trojan or any form of malware. There is a popular GPL automation utility called Autohotkey embedded in cMP to drive its remote control facility and ‘on-screen’ keyboard. The latter relies on a little executable whose name is the acronymn of:
    A uto H ot K ey O n S creen K eyboard:
    i.e. AHKOSK.exe.
    These have been discussed on the forum (inc the reasons for using ahkosk in preference to Microsoft's OSK utility) and I think they are mentioned in the documentation though I haven't checked.
    I don't use either facility so I've no direct experience of them. In fact, I'd prefer it if loading them was made optional to lower the memory footprint but it's not what I'd call an urgent mod. Meanwhile, see:
    http://www.autohotkey.com/
    and:
    http://www.autohotkey.com/forum/topic18378.html
    *** After posting this, I found that Uzeb has already pointed elsewhere to a thread on the "cMP is malware" rumour. I apologise for any duplication but it's worth nailing this one.
    Best
    Dave
    - http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=pcaudio&n=32201&hi (Open in New Window)
    Edits: 04/26/09
- RE: Why is there a trojan in cMP? - Ryelands 08:26:19 04/25/09 (4)
  audiozorro asked:
  
  Why is there a trojan in cMP?
  
  The short answer is that there isn't. There is no malware of any sort in cMP or cPlay or in any of the ancillary software recommended for cMP2 systems.
  
  One or two users have reported that some malware detection programs issue a trojan warning when cMP is installed. However, the program's "user base" (some users have worked professionally with computers for a long time and are not inclined to light-minded risk-taking with data) have overwhelmingly discounted these warnings. Among its reasons for doing so are:
  
  1. "False Positives" are, from time to time, inevitable when using malware detection software. As cMP is a replacement for XP's Explorer shell, the occasional "false positive" is perhaps not altogether surprising;
  
  2. Dozens of users have installed the program time and again without any problems that could reasonably be put down to its containing malware.
  
  3. If it did contain malware, it would probably be the only example whose author has been in regular and congenial correspondence with his "victims" for the best part of two years;
  
  4. There is a wealth of information out there on detecting and removing "Trojan Generic" that should, aside from the above, put your mind at rest.
  
  I hope that helps,
  
  Dave
  - What does the author have to say? - audiozorro 18:11:22 04/25/09 (3)
    I am not implying that the author has deliberately planted a Trojan in his program. I am also aware that not all anti-virus software is equally capable in detecting malware.
    
    It is also my impression that most users of cMP do not use anti-virus software on their computer player and a dedicated computer is recommended for cMP with no network or Internet capability. Thus the majority of cMP users wouldn’t be aware of a possible Trojan and if they are not connected to a network or the Internet any possible Trojan would not be an issue.
    
    I did a search on “Trojan” and “cMP” in Computer Audio Asylum and came up with 10 records to date. I have seen nothing from the author, so I’m not convinced he is aware of these observations of malware or any possible problems. I do think it’s a bad practice to distribute a program without warning users that their anti-virus software may detect that the downloaded file is infected and that after the setup installation an anti-virus scan may report a Trojan Generic.
    - RE: What does the author have to say? - Uzeb 21:19:25 04/25/09 (2)
      audiozorro did you see this post
      
      http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=pcaudio&n=32201&highlight=trojan+in+cmp
      
      PC XPpro TC Electronic Konnekt-8 firewire i/o, 2-Tact 2150's, Genesis 500 modified speakers, Virtual Dynamics & XLO cables
      - RE: What does the author have to say? - audiozorro 18:12:09 04/26/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What does the author have to say? posted by Uzeb on April 25, 2009 at 21:19:25
        
        Thanks, I did review the earlier posts but I still felt uncomfortable especially if I had to install the cMP program on someone else’s computer. Although McAfee and Norton are the two most widely used anti-virus programs, in most independent tests there are several programs rated much higher in effectiveness and finding new viruses, whereas McAfee and Norton often lag behind.
        
        I do feel somewhat better, more knowledgeable and I thank everyone for their comments. My solution will just be to follow the recommended setup, i.e. a dedicated computer not connected to the Internet or networked to other computers. Thus the anti-virus warning of a Trojan Generic will have no consequences, whether real, imagined or benign.
        
        RE: What does the author have to say? - Dawnrazor 13:53:57 04/27/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What does the author have to say? posted by audiozorro on April 26, 2009 at 18:12:09
        
        I think this a non issue. One of the posts you must have seen is the one from me with a bitdefender screen shot.
        
        But I still run cmp on my rig. I am not worried.
        
        And cmp is not alone. Here is a screen shot from a player that does give that warning you require. I bet he is using similar code to cics for the remote control. From the Mp3toys set up menu( I circled it in red):
        
        Like cmp, I think this is a legit player too.
Got 2.5" drives, fanless configuration and... - theob 06:51:36 04/25/09 (2)
...sq is superb. However I do get the metallics (depending on day) every 3 - 8 hours. The only thing left to try is xp sp3 in place of xp sp2. does anybody think this may be worth a try?

Look I can easily live with current set up listening to juli@ analogue outs but there has to be a solution. I can also listen to juli@ digital outs if I listen to to cplay 18 or cplay 22 via 96 but I am curious why I have this issue.
- RE: Got 2.5" drives, fanless configuration and... - steppe 09:35:36 04/25/09 (1)
  Hello! Theo! I have written to You that You will eventually need reinstall windows. It is not sp2's fault. The fault is in some of the deeper optimizations done not carefully enough, when You might have unchecked some process that is vital, instead of unnecessary one.
  This is still my opinion. You don't have to make it sp3.
  Serge
  - RE: Got 2.5" drives, fanless configuration and... - theob 03:43:42 04/26/09 (0)
    thats what I thought 3 weeks ago when I reloaded xp sp2. but it didn't get rid of the problem. thanks for your comment.
Interesting experience with p4 voltage as set on Antec pot - theob 07:16:46 04/21/09 (0)
I am trying to perfect my system to be 'by the (cics) book' (thanks to Gregg for this suggestion). I have added 2.5" lap top drive, a fanless cooler on order etc etc and all things have improved sq and system stability. I also have tried different voltage levels on p4 by adjusting the Antec onboard potentiometer. For many months I had it set all the way counterclockwise which gave me 11.82 volts (as measured by my vom on the p4 cap mod board--more easy to get at and definitely more accurate than cpuz). Anyway I tried adjusting the pot and with cplay 2.0b 22 the mere adjustment of a few tenths of a volt is not subtle from a sq perspective. Too high and the highs dry up and it sounds bland. Too low and it sounds wimpy. So I found that 11.94 was perfect for my system--good dynamics/bass and almost perfect highs--very ambient/airy with great attack/release and zero hardness.

Now the sweet spot may vary for everybody but I am running juli@ analogue outs and I currently have my host clock control at 165 and vid (as shown in cpuz) at .83 volts. I was very surprised at the sensitivity of my system's sq to this p4 voltage setting. If you try this re-check bios because it kept resetting host clock control to auto and mememory multiplier to auto when I did the experimenting. But if you stick with it and get your 'normal bios settings' back, the sound will change a lot.
RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player - theob 08:36:35 04/20/09 (6)
Calling sonics (alfred). need to ask some questions about one of your juli@ power supply mod. You can either pm me or do it online (I lost all my email so I don't have your email id to initiate a pm).
- RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player - hanssatink 09:47:40 04/20/09 (5)
  http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/4/49480.html
  - RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player - theob 06:28:11 04/21/09 (4)
    I have a 5 volt rechargeable battery I want to use for this mod but I haven't used it for over a year and the battery is predictably fully discharged. So I plugged in the charger but it doesn't seem to charge. Any ideas on how to bring it back to life or is it dead forever?
    
    Edits: 04/21/09
    - RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player - hanssatink 11:32:20 04/21/09 (3)
      I fear that this batterie has died.
      Lead batteries are very sensitive.
      - RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player - theob 11:49:26 04/21/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player posted by hanssatink on April 21, 2009 at 11:32:20
        
        You are probably right but its a lithium ion battery. Still think it might be dead?
        
        Edits: 04/21/09
        
        RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player - hanssatink 12:04:48 04/21/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player posted by theob on April 21, 2009 at 11:49:26
        
        lithium ion can be unloaded without damage i think. But not sure.
        Have you load it with a higher voltage.
        
        RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player - theob 12:43:25 04/21/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player posted by hanssatink on April 21, 2009 at 12:04:48
        
        well I have a trickle charge on it. that should work but doesn't seem to.
Why not one of Giga's new 2-oz. mobos? - Kristian 16:45:52 04/17/09 (1)
Check link below; these mobos have some nice touches, like thicker power traces, solid caps, ferrit core, etc. Someone else suggested this, and there is now plenty of independent testing showing they run much cooler, and are electrically more stable. They're ATX-sized, though.
- Gigabyte Ultra Durable 3 mobos (Open in New Window)
- RE: Why not one of Giga's new 2-oz. mobos? - abysstw 01:41:24 04/18/09 (0)
  Check the linked preview, the BIOS not only offers "...a lot of voltage options, but the individual adjustments are extremely liberal as you can see below".
  
  The CPU vCORE can be set to a minimum of 0.5v! Seems quite promising to me.
  - http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-review (Open in New Window)
Has anyone used the stockintel cooler w/o the fan? - theob 16:29:51 04/17/09 (0)
I'm running 93 deg F with the fan, I'm thinking that at .85 or below vid and 160 or below host clock control it can't get that hot.

Anyway is it a good idea or just simply not worth trying?
RE: does cMP sound best with the least amount of memory? - audiogremlin 13:52:11 04/17/09 (1)
My laptop has 2 GB RAM. Should I be lowering it to increase sound quality? Will this make a difference and why?
- RE: does cMP sound best with the least amount of memory? - cics 07:32:49 04/21/09 (0)
  Using less RAM will improve SQ. More RAM consumes more power.
  
  A laptop setup is not ideal (no separation of CPU and mobo power supply, very limited BIOS flexibility, fans, cannot use PCI or PCIe cards, e.g. Juli@).
Can we retest /nopae (i.e. remove it) - cics 17:28:55 04/16/09 (5)
My findings after long term use is to NOT use this option. Initial sound is very good but is not consistent: long term SQ changes towards being "bright".

What are your results with "/nopae" removed?
- Great feedback, thanks. /nopae has been removed from recommended settings. - cics 07:28:36 04/21/09 (0)
  .
- RE: Can we retest /nopae (i.e. remove it) - hfavandepas 04:20:46 04/18/09 (1)
  Hi Cics,
  
  It took me a little D-tour, but now reading you’re post, I’m leaning too the same conclusion to remove it.
  
  It now explains why my cMP setup sounded not okay after adding a dedicated linear power supply too power the P4 pin last Wednesday. After adding the linear PS too pin 4 the sound was like ‘on steroids’. Everything bigger and impressive but not something you want to live with.
  
  First I blamed the simple linear power supply for that. It looks a bit like this one. Only with much better ripple specs ! (max 2,5 mV)
  http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=310&EID=3075&txtModelID=234 ( I can’t show the actual linear PS I ordered because one cannot directly link into the dutch version of radio shack (www.conrad.nl) too show it .
  
  Adding the b22 cplay version today bettered things a little. But the sound was still not okay.
  Very detailed, but still ‘forward’ and ‘in you’re face’. Hi-Fi-isch if you like.
  
  Reading you’re post this morning, I removed the /nopae and that did the trick.
  Now everything sounds balanced (not forward and upfront anymore)
  
  By the way: very very nice last version (b22) of cplay
  Again there is more 3D, space and better treble without being forward and upfront.
  
  LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
  - http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=3 (Open in New Window)
  - RE: Can we retest /nopae (i.e. remove it) - theob 04:53:44 04/18/09 (0)
    I agree, what was initially more transparency turned out to be too much over the top after a while.
    
    nopae is out.
- retest of "/nopae" - monaco 02:30:27 04/18/09 (0)
  Results from removing and then re-applying "/nopae" to my CMP1.2/cPlay2.0b4 rig - comparison made using HDtracks 24/96 FLAC sampler files are:
  
  removing /nopae - mid-range has more noticeable detail, treble less prominent as a result yielding a 'refined' presentation
  
  re-applying /nopae - bass more tuneful with better dynamics, treble more obvious but overall effect somehow more 'alive'
  
  As I have XPPro SP1 and am limited to 2.0b4.....YMMV
- To nopae or not to nopae - steppe 02:30:02 04/18/09 (0)
  Hello, again, cics! I tested it. The results:
  My CMP-cPlay is built around Biostar mobo, all optims done exept minlogon
  Played first WITH nopae Jethro Tull Roots To Branches. This disk is recorded very openly, rather bright and in quiet passages we can easily hear artificial echoes or reverberation of brushes on cymbals. If played on a bright cd player these echoes turn into constant HF sheen, or noise, or haze... Now, this is what happened on b 22 WITH nopae.
  I removed it from boot.ini and No more sheen, or haze. However it should be noted, that though initial attack of short sounds was not lost, some slightest level of detail was gone. I'd say the loss is infinitesimal or probably even imagined.
  On Van der Graaf Generator's Trisector, which is recorded almost ideal no loss occured. Such results. My opinion is Not to use /nopae. Had it since b 20
  Serge.
  
  Edits: 04/18/09
Is it possible to have a bad copy of Windows XP Pro? - theob 03:29:27 04/16/09 (2)
My version is XP Professional Service Pack 2 (Build 2600). I also have SP3. Maybe I should try SP3 in an effort to fix the 'metallic' problem. Comments anyone?
- RE: Is it possible to have a bad copy of Windows XP Pro? - hanssatink 10:09:15 04/16/09 (1)
  Do you use a Bufallo DAC?
  
  If yes, try buffering C11 and C12 each with a low esr cap.
  This tweak did help to get rid of 'metallic' sound
  - RE: Is it possible to have a bad copy of Windows XP Pro? - theob 11:56:38 04/16/09 (0)
    no I want to get a buffalo but not until I solve my issue. right now I'm listening to juli@ analogue outs. I have a benchmark dac.
RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player - n_vincent 02:27:58 04/09/09 (0)
To my understanding 2 parameters are very importante

- the timing
- the power comsuption

HYPERX are good at timing but bad at power comsuption

Value Ram are quite good for the timing and very good for the power comsuption

The following can be good chose

KVR533D2N4/256
http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/KVR533D2N4_256.pdf

KVR800D2N5/512
http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/KVR800D2N5_512.pdf
cMP cPLAY and LINUX - n_vincent 02:18:23 04/09/09 (2)
Dear CICS,

I questionning myself about LINUX.

Don't you think that the total control of the operating system would be a very good advantage, the footprint could be reduce to its minimun.

I'm just a linux user but the information I can get from power user is that linux is used to creat a "real time critical embeded system", only the needed kernel componant are implemented. This could be a very good to run cMP cPLAY.

What is you thinking about that ?

Nicolas.
- I think someone is running cPlay in Wine/Linux - cics 08:02:29 04/09/09 (1)
  I doubt whether the B9 options would work under Linux.
  
  Definitely worth trying - if it works, one could avoid Windows OS license costs. Comparing SQ with Windows XP would be useful as well.
  - RE: I think someone is running cPlay in Wine/Linux - n_vincent 13:07:09 04/09/09 (0)
    Wine increase the footprint, it's better to use windows directly.
    
    Is the B9 options rely on windows xp capability ?
    
    I was thinking about a lynux system like www.lynuxworks.com/rtos/rtos.php or others, By design it could help a lot about latency and jitter.
    
    My thinking is not about licence costs only to audio quality.
Which RAM/processor? Also question on external storage? - Apokalypse 15:31:41 04/08/09 (1)
I'm having some problems sourcing the parts that are recommended. For the RAM what would be a better choice out of these:

- KINGSTON Twin Pack HYPER X 2x1 gig (2gb) DDR2 800Mhz CL4 (1.8V 4-4-4-12)
- KINGSTON Twin Pack HYPER X 2x1 gig DDR2 (2gb) 800Mhz CL5 (2.0V 5-5-5-15)
- KINGSTON Twin Pack HYPER X 2x2 gig DDR2 (4gb) 800Mhz CL5 (1.8V 5-5-5-15)

Or possibly 2gb of 667Mhz Hyper X if I can find it?

What about the processor? I can't find an E7200. Would an E7400 be the equivalent?

Another question, is it possible to use an external HD with cplay? Wondering if I can store my music somewhere else to reduce HD noise.

Thanks for your help guys :)
- Any E7xxx Processor will do. On RAM, use single stick at CL3/4 1.8V (256MB for 44.1k material else 512MB) - cics 08:10:29 04/09/09 (0)
  Yes HDD can be stored externally using eSATA connection.
The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . . - DBB 17:00:04 04/06/09 (11)
As you remember, my issue was using JRiver.I am proceeding in small steps. I implemented the basic recommended Windows system changes and have been listening for a few days. I was surprised. I was expecting subtle changes but the resolution increased very noticeably. When using ASIO with the Lynx L22 before the changes, I found many recordings too detailed and sometimes fatiguing. It is a very resolving card to begin with. My system is also fairly resolving as well. I found that using direct sound with a DSP plugin (Audio Sandbox)has always worked the best for me. It softened the sound slightly and brought out the 3d hall ambiance nicely. The penalty was that I had to give up some resolution.

After the Windows system changes, the ASIO became extremely resolving. I can now hear many details, but the problem is that it includes the good, the bad, and the ugly. I could now hear tape hiss on many analogue recordings that I didn't notice before. I can hear intrusive groove noise on LP recordings that was less prominent before. Pages, turning, chairs, squeaking, faint coughs, all now there. I could probably hear Leonard Bernstein's pulse and stomach gurgling if I listened closely enough. Over time it is sharp and harsh. So, results so far, ASIO is now even less listenable.

But the good, is that the DSP with direct sound is even better than before because I am getting more resolution, but in a musical listenable way. I may stop here since I really doubt that I can get the system to sound any better. It now sounds detailed by a good increment (eg I can hear the overtones of the cello better)in addition to being solid, and very 3d, as it was with the DSP. On the other hand, it is so hard as an obsessive audiophile to leave it alone.
- RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . . - Ryelands 03:56:29 04/07/09 (9)
  DBB wrote:
  
  . . . before the changes, I found many recordings too detailed and sometimes fatiguing.
  
  Thanks for your interesting report. I'm pleased you're happy with what you've done and think your approach is a good one - take from cMP2 what suits you and the way you like to listen.
  
  That said, I'd argue that, if detail in a recording is "fatiguing" (and I know exactly what you mean), it's a sure sign that reproduction is not (or in your case was not) optimal.
  
  Detail in music is not inherently fatiguing - we don't normally ask a string quartet to sit behind a curtain in case we get tired (though I've been minded to ask for a hat if sitting near the front when a tenor gets carried away).
  
  At most venues, the nearer the band you get to sit, the more you have to pay. It can be tiring because it's too loud but that's a different matter. Venues such as London's Wigmore Hall are treasured by music lovers for their ability to make every nuance audible even to those sitting at the back, next to the sides, behind the dame with the big hat, etc.
  
  However, I agree with you about spurious detail spoiling some recordings. Alas, when you improve your reproduction, it does seems that some favourites lose a little of their appeal.
  
  But others take their place. The number of CDs that have "come alive" for me since I built a decent PC-audio system is very gratifying.
  
  Dave
  - RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . . - DBB 04:41:29 04/07/09 (8)
    I like the hall analogy. I'm in NYC. Our two main orchestral concert halls are Avery Fisher Hall and Carnegie Hall. Avery Fisher depending on the seat is usually crystal clear but sometimes lacks warmth and resonance, and can even be harsh. Carnegie Hall is clear with no lack of detail, but balanced and warm. It seems to have kind of dark glow. I'm looking for the Carnegie Hall experience.
    I feel I'm getting the best sound and access to my music with PC audio. For me the biggest single jump in quality was the use of DSP with the Lynx card. DSP is not exactly in fashion here. I rather have too much detail and look for ways of adjusting it, than too little. So the Lynx card works for me. I would be in a bigger hurry to try cMP if it wasn't a potential impediment to using JRiver conveniently.
    
    Edits: 04/07/09
    - RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . . - Dawnrazor 09:24:17 04/10/09 (7)
      Hey Dbb,
      
      I think seger is right about things being non optimal and that detail is not a bad thing when things are optimal.
      
      What bios changes have you done? COuld you underclock? Are things fanless?
      
      Also, what kind of power are you feeding the computer? DId you get the granite supply and are you using it to power the hdd. I hope you are using sata.
      
      Recently I lost the magic mostly because I moved things around and when I connected it back up I had the granite supply connected to a cheap computer powerstrip. Before I had it into my counterpoint pac5. It was the "dirty" psu so I thought it didnt matter. Well I was wrong, and putting it back into the pac5 really helped.
      
      My hunch is that the drives or power or both are hurting things, and fans too if you have them. So try doing as much of the hardware things too.
      
      And I was thinking a bit about the gui. If you could sort by composer, conductor, and album, would that be enough?
      - RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . . - DBB 05:50:20 04/13/09 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . . posted by Dawnrazor on April 10, 2009 at 09:24:17
        
        I only did the three Windows system changes, which I thought would be very modest. I don't think I'll start with hardware changes anytime soon. I ended up swapping some cable around, I removed the silver cable from the position directly into the amp and replaced it with a good copper cable which was in my pre amp. The sound is now back closer to where I want it. I did some A/B testing against vinyl. It is close, but still lacks that last bit of solidity and weight of vinyl. I thing there is probably a slight net improvement from the windows changes, but I might have come full circle. Have you a/b'd your system against vinyl? I think that is the ultimate test.
        
        Sorting by composer, conductor, and album would not work that well. I rarely listen to music by album. I could use album as a misnomer for work, but that still would not be enough. I need composer, work, performing artists, and genre. I also like a category for source, ie LP, and sample rate. A further problem, is even if cPlay had all these custom features tomorrow, it would probably take a year's work in the evening to get it set up.
        
        RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . . - Bibo01 00:52:40 04/14/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . . posted by DBB on April 13, 2009 at 05:50:20
        
        DBB,
        
        I have a similar set-up as yours and I intend to use J River, at least at the beginnig. Can you please tell me which Windows mods you made?
        Thanks
        
        RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . . - DBB 06:48:32 04/15/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . . posted by Bibo01 on April 14, 2009 at 00:52:40
        
        I did just a few changes that are described at page 27. I replied more specifically to your email.
        
        RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . . - Dawnrazor 11:49:06 04/13/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . . posted by DBB on April 13, 2009 at 05:50:20
        
        Hey Dave,
        
        If you can get the granites installed which is pretty easy and cheap at $20 a pop, I think that would help you a lot with the sound, especially if you can get the usb connections powered this way too.
        
        Even if you chose not to do that, getting the drives powered off the granites is a plug and play affair.
        
        http://www.granitedigital.com/universaldrivemechpowersupply. (Open in New Window)
        
        RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . . - seger 06:53:03 04/13/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . . posted by DBB on April 13, 2009 at 05:50:20
        
        JRiver with WASAPI in Vista would probably be your cup of tea - with as many customisations a la cics as you can do short of cMP. It will only improve the musicality of the sound, not make it harsher. Also, you will not lose any of the functionality you need, and the system will be lighter. You won't need more than 1GB RAM. Here's the post about setting up Vista I mentioned in an earlier post: Vista Setup
        
        RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . . - DBB 10:02:37 04/13/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . . posted by seger on April 13, 2009 at 06:53:03
        
        Hello seger:
        Thanks for the link. How close would you say this is to the sound of vinyl, if you have had a chance to compare. The reason I ask is because the Lynx card works so well for me that I feel I am already close to my ideal. Its that last 2% of vinyl-like weight, ease, and smoothness that I would like to squeeze out from digital.
        David
        
        Edits: 04/13/09
        
        RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . . - seger 12:31:48 04/13/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: The good, bad, and ugly: reporting back to seger, Ryelands, cics, and Dawnrazor . . . posted by DBB on April 13, 2009 at 10:02:37
        
        I'm not able to make a fair comparison. That last 2% you speak of may be in the realm of personal taste, so only you can find it by experimenting. What you gain with pc audio is the freedom from the noise of vinyl as grooves and needles suffer wear and tear, and the convenience of having all your music a click or two away, but you are probably right that the naturalness and richness of vinyl is the ideal digital audio aims for. My suggestion was based on your post - I don't think you'll be happy with the limitations of the cMP or cPlay UI, and I thought the JRiver wasapi presentation might suit you as it is quite rich and full. And if the DSP you spoke of works in Vista, you could play with that as well. Try some different things, and let us know what you hear.
- Give cPlay a try - you can simply play the actual wav or flac file directly - cics 22:28:42 04/06/09 (0)
  It would be interesting to see how the detail is presented.
Current measurements on powersupply P4 pin - hfavandepas 09:19:02 04/06/09 (13)
For those who want too place smoothing caps on the power supply line to smoothen the ripple voltage.
When placing smoothing caps, one needs to know (or guess) the current and the estimated ripple voltage on that supply line. The ripple voltage can be found in product reviews on the www. The actual working current has to be measured.
In some posts I saw measurements of the current on the P4 pin of about 0.7 amp when working. And 1 amp during boot and startup.
I found these mentioned currents very high. So I measured them myself.
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L Bios F9
Intel: E7200 core2duo CPU ratio: 7 Busspeed: 160 CPU voltage: 1.0000 Volt
Readings when playing music:
Foobar2000
SRC 96000 0,35 - 0,36 amp
SoX 96000 0,26 - 0,27 amp
PPHS 96000 0,25 - 0,26 amp
--- 44100 0,24 - 0,25 amp
cPlay
SCR 96000 0,29 - 0,32 amp
--- 44100 0,24 amp
When CPU voltage is lowered to 0,90000 volt than all readings are 0,04 amps less.
Playing dvd’s with GOM player uses 0,27 – 0,29 amp.

How the measurements were done:
A NAIM Hicap acts as 24 Volt power supply.
The 24 volt is fed into a dc-dc adapter to make it 12 volt.
Then this 12 volt is fed in to a DC-DC ATX power Supply
(http://www.mini-box.com/PW-200M-DC-DC-power-supply)
The PW-200m only powers the processor through the P4 pin.
The multimeter was placed between the HICAP and the 24/12 dc-dc adapter.
Other power sources while the PC was working:
The mobo pin20/24 pin is powered by an Antec EarthWatts 430.
Sphericals (HDD, USB-ports, DVD, etc.) are powered from an external PC power supply outside the PC-case. (In: ac 230 V, Out: dc ± 50 W, 5 V / 3 A, 12 V / 3 A). I don’t mind DC wires inside my PC. But I definitely do not like 230 Volt AC wires inside the PC near mobo, soundcard, etc. So I didn’t choose the granite mini power supplies.
The PC is calibrated according the art of building computer transports except for:
- the network is still working
- the video is still working (1920 x 1080 ) and displaying too Sony Bravia KDL-32W4000
- EIST function is off. Corresponding XP power settings are also off.
ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300

Edits: 04/06/09
- RE: Current measurements on powersupply P4 pin - Ryelands 12:25:52 04/06/09 (10)
  hfavandepas wrote:
  
  In some posts, I saw measurements of the current on the P4 pin of about 0.7 amp when working. And 1 amp during boot and startup. I found these mentioned currents very high. So I measured them myself.
  
  The only reported measurements of CPU current draw on this list in recent months that I know of have been mine so I assume it's these you are referring to. If so, your report is not quite accurate. In January, I wrote:
  
  “I repeated . . . the measurements I did of the current drawn by the E7200 chip [on the G31 motherboard]. On power up, it draws about 1.5 amps. As ‘underclocked’ BIOS settings kick in during POST, this falls to about 0.6 amps. Once the OS is loaded and while playing music (with a NOS DAC), the chip draws between 0.4 and 0.5 amps or between five and six watts."
  
  The meter I used was an old Avometer DVM 2001 with 1000-milliamp (ma) and 10-amp ranges. For obvious reasons, I started on the 10 amp range, saw the 1.5 power-on peak and, well, left it there.
  
  In the light of your post, I dug out my other meter, a rather newer Fluke 8060 with a 2000 ma range, making it safe for this test.
  
  I'm using a 12 volt linear supply to drive the CPU (and a "pico-processor" à la mode GStew for the P24 line). Except that I use a USB NOS DAC (so no soundcard) and run at 140 MHz and a nominal Vcore of 0.75, I think the systems are comparable.
  
  I repeated my tests using the Fluke on its 2000 ma scale. The current peaked soon after power-up for about 30 seconds at around 1500/1600 ma (though it went off the scale on one occasion), falling by degrees to settle at 330/340 ma when playing.music.
  
  This figures seems much the same as yours though I confess I'm less willing than you to place confidence in figures showing tiny differences when doing this or that.
  
  The difference between my January measurements and the ones I've just done I'd put down to
  
  1. Using a different meter on a different scale - a 10-amp scale is always going to be rough. I was happy enough to get any data at the time as I couldn't find anything else anywhere else and all I wanted was a ball-park figure. I got one.
  
  2. Since taking those measurements, I've changed a deal of settings and no longer recall what is different between the two setups. The measurements are broadly in line with each other, much the same as yours and adequate for purpose.
  
  What might be of interest is that if you set Vcore to "Normal" (i.e. 1.5 volts or about double what I used above), the system settles at 1070 ma when playing the same track as above. In short, setting Vcore with care can cut the current draw by almost two-thirds – not to be sneezed at.
  
  Best
  
  Dave
  - What VID are you using to get Vcore of 0.75V (and host @140)? Noticed that with EIST off, VID can go lower! nt - cics 23:11:59 04/07/09 (4)
    .
    - RE: What VID are you using to get Vcore of 0.75V (and host @140)? Noticed that with EIST off, VID can go lower! nt - Ryelands 01:02:25 04/08/09 (3)
      cics wrote:
      
      What VID are you using to get Vcore of 0.75V (and host @140)? Noticed that with EIST off, VID can go lower!
      
      Now that you pin me down, I have to say that I'm not sure what VID is in this context and my note may have been muddled as a result.
      
      Whatever, in the BIOS's MIT menu, there is a setting for CPU Voltage Control . This is set to 0.75000. (Just below that is a note that the "normal" CPU Vcore is 1.15 v.)
      
      With this setting (I've just checked), CPU-Z reports that Vcore is 0.704 but I have also noticed that the BIOS menu "PC Health Status" says that it is 0.724.
      
      I know what VID is in general terms but as to exactly what these figures mean and which Vcore reading is right, I've no idea.
      
      I have run the board with CPU Voltage Control set as low as 0.65 but, especially when cold, it tended to restore defaults on powering up so I settled on 0.75 and left it at that. (Some report SQ differences after making minute changes to CPU Voltage Control but I can't hear any.)
      
      I have a hunch you're right about things being more stable with EIST off but I've not tested it systematically.
      
      Dave
      - RE: What VID are you using to get Vcore of 0.75V (and host @140)? Noticed that with EIST off, VID can go lower! nt - cics 10:30:00 04/08/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What VID are you using to get Vcore of 0.75V (and host @140)? Noticed that with EIST off, VID can go lower! nt posted by Ryelands on April 08, 2009 at 01:02:25
        
        VID is an 8 bit code set from BIOS to CPU. Each VID reference relates to Vcc specifications as per Intel. You have VID of 0.75000 set - I'm currently testing 0.73750 (lower values are unstable). The "normal voltage" BIOS message is a CPU setting (each is set by Intel). I have one E7200 at 1.15 and another at 1.21 (which does 0.83750).
        
        Can you measure overall power consumption using your fluke on main 12V supply to P24 & P4 (i.e. use one PSU).
        
        RE: What VID are you using to get Vcore of 0.75V (and host @140)? Noticed that with EIST off, VID can go lower! nt - Ryelands 04:15:32 04/09/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What VID are you using to get Vcore of 0.75V (and host @140)? Noticed that with EIST off, VID can go lower! nt posted by cics on April 08, 2009 at 10:30:00
        
        cics wrote:
        
        Can you measure overall power consumption using your fluke on main 12V supply to P24 & P4 (i.e. use one PSU).
        
        Just to be absolutely clear, the figure below refers to the Gigabyte G21 MoBo.
        
        When playing flac-format music data without upsampling with the CPU clock at 140MHz, VID at 0.75000, PSU at precisely 12v, EIST off, 512 MB Kingston "ValueRAM" and a "Full Monty" cMP2 setup, the motherboard and CPU typically draw about 1630 ma.
        
        Allowing for dissipation in the "pico-PSU", call it 1600 ma or about 19 watts. Last time I measured this, it came out slightly higher (see cics's earlier request for this measurement). I don't think I've tweaked anything significant in the meantime but, as the first measurement was taken with a different meter on its 10 amp scale, I'd tend to put more faith in this one.
        
        BTW, after a tedious to-and-fro session, it's clear that my setup at least sounds better with EIST OFF . Who'd have believed it mattered?
        
        That'll do me for current measurement for a while - it seems oddly emotive for such a humdrum topic.
        
        Best
        
        Dave
        
        RE: What VID are you using to get Vcore of 0.75V (and host @140)? Noticed that with EIST off, VID can go lower! nt - cics 07:57:55 04/09/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What VID are you using to get Vcore of 0.75V (and host @140)? Noticed that with EIST off, VID can go lower! nt posted by Ryelands on April 09, 2009 at 04:15:32
        
        Thanks.
        
        Got SQ improvement with VID 0.73750 (Vc as per CPU-Z shows 0.704V). As expected, CPU temperature dropped nicely by 4-6°C. Now testing VID 0.73125 (Vc is 0.688V) which is the lowest stable VID in my case.
        
        Setting Host Freq to 150 and upsampling to 192k @145db SNR should yield overall power consumption below 20W (with 256MB RAM)!
  - RE: Current measurements on powersupply P4 pin - hfavandepas 09:07:24 04/07/09 (4)
    Hi dave,
    
    Since we have the same mobo and processor it’s interesting to compare these measurements.
    On my system when booting the current on the P4 pin in my setup is between 0,32 and 0,37 amp with one short peak at 0,40 amp. When the boot process has ended and windows is at rest than the current on P4 is 0,20 amps. (With Bios at: CPU ratio: 7 Busspeed: 160 CPU voltage: 1,0000 Volt)
    
    You’re reading are; 1,5 amp at power up, then go down too 0,6 amps and while playing music you’re reading are about 0,4 – 0,5 amps on your system.
    
    May be I’m not doing my measurements properly, but your readings are twice as high as my readings. I think that’s surprising.
    
    So are there any other inmates who did some current measurements?
    
    Best
    Mark
    
    Data:
    Foobar2000 in optimized XP setup:
    SRC 96000 0,35 - 0,36 amp
    SoX 96000 0,26 - 0,27 amp
    PPHS 96000 0,25 - 0,26 amp
    --- 44100 0,24 - 0,25 amp
    cPlay in optimized XP setup (note: not in cMP enviroment)
    SCR 96000 0,29 - 0,32 amp
    --- 44100 0,24 amp
    
    When CPU voltage is lowered to 0,90000 volt than all readings are 0,04 amps less
    
    LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
    - RE: Current measurements on powersupply P4 pin - Ryelands 10:53:54 04/07/09 (3)
      hfavandepas wrote:
      
      . . . your readings are twice as high as my readings.
      
      Sorry, but I don't see how you reach that conclusion. Yesterday, I wrote:
      
      "The current peaked soon after power-up for about 30 seconds at around 1500/1600 ma (though it went off the scale on one occasion), falling by degrees to settle at 330/340 ma when playing.music."
      
      You report readings ranging from 240 to 360 ma. From where I'm sitting, the steady-state (i.e. while playing music) values are pretty much the same.
      
      I repeated the measurements today (I'd left the meter in place.) The steady-state reading has fallen to 320 ma. I'm not getting excited about that - it's a difference of three per cent. (It could be up to 350 ma tomorrow, making it +/- 3%. I'd be delighted if my meter - it's a good one - is accurate to +/- 2% when reading current.)
      
      The 1500 ma peak on a cold restart was still to be seen today, though not for so long. Presumably that's because I'd left the BIOS at clock=140 MHz; Vcore=0.75v. (I wasn't expecting a "Spanish Inquisition".)
      
      You'll see only a short peak if you do a warm restart. To test it properly, you need to store your settings, put the BIOS back to defaults and do a cold start. Then, if you don't get a peak roughly comparable to mine, something funny IS going on.
      
      Whatever, the values you report all lie, give or take, within +/- 100 ma of mine - some are higher, some lower.
      
      (What I didn't report yesterday was that I get a short peak of ~400 ma at the start of each track, presumably as cPlay decodes flac data.)
      
      You don't say what scale you are using (though your data is in amps) or suggest the calibre of your meter. If you are using a 10-amp range, I'd be a little concerned about the accuracy of readings so close to the low end of a low-resolution scale.
      
      You report 0.24 amps running cPlay at 44.1. Are you sure? That's less than three watts - judging by the way it eats batteries, I have a (OK, OK, it's very old) calculator that seems to need more than that.
      
      Seriously, these are very informal "experiments". We have different meters (neither, I'd hazard, recently calibrated) possibly on different scales; neither of us recorded the temperatures of the CPU or the meter or checked how long the device has been running. We are running different software on a different configuration with different target data, etc etc.
      
      I confess I haven't a clue as to how normal manufacturing tolerances might be reflected in crude tests like these.
      
      I just don't see any "Eureka" moments coming from comparing these data - they seem pretty well in line. In short, we can report with reasonable confidence that an under-clocked E7200 chip draws between quarter and half an amp from the P4 line when playing music.
      
      Anything else risks reading into the data what is not there.
      
      Best
      
      Dave
      - let's skip this discussion. This is going nowhere. RE: Current measurements on powersupply P4 pin - hfavandepas 13:28:59 04/07/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Current measurements on powersupply P4 pin posted by Ryelands on April 07, 2009 at 10:53:54
        
        Hi Dave,
        
        Lets skip this discussion.
        
        Somehow you feel offended or annoyed if somebody else is posting data that is not inline with yours. You also don’t seem to have any interest if there are other inmates who performed current measurements on the P4 pin.
        
        Every body can read our former posts and draw there own conclusions based on that. Or even better: perform there own current measurements.
        
        LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
        
        RE: let's skip this discussion. This is going nowhere. RE: Current measurements on powersupply P4 pin - Ryelands 15:28:12 04/07/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: let's skip this discussion. This is going nowhere. RE: Current measurements on powersupply P4 pin posted by hfavandepas on April 07, 2009 at 13:28:59
        
        hfavandepas wrote:
        
        Somehow you feel offended or annoyed if somebody else is posting data that is not inline with yours.
        
        I'm not offended (or even annoyed) that you did the measurements - this list is short on empirical data. My point was that, on examination, the two "data sets" were in fact pretty much the same and that the differences you claim to have noted were based on (twice) misreading what I'd reported. What's your beef with that?
        
        What did disappoint me was that you seemed to have done the measurements sloppily and then implied that the fault was mine. Why not, instead of throwing a hissy fit, answer my queries?
        
        You also don’t seem to have any interest if there are other inmates who performed current measurements on the P4 pin.
        
        You could be right - what consenting adults do in private with their P4 pins doesn't interest me. However, I did, a while back, report some data for ripple voltages in the context of adding smoothing caps to MoBo power supplies. Bill (Old Listener) pointed out that my figures were way different from those on respected review sites and queried if I had done them properly. I did them again them and found that I had been sloppy - Bill was right and I was wrong. Why don't you try and do the same?
        
        Meantime, skip the abuse.
        
        Dave
        
        case closed - hfavandepas 16:48:05 04/07/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: let's skip this discussion. This is going nowhere. RE: Current measurements on powersupply P4 pin posted by Ryelands on April 07, 2009 at 15:28:12
        
        Hi Dave,
        
        All I did was mentioning that in past I had read a post on: current measurements on the P4 pin.
        
        I wrote:
        “ In some posts I saw measurements of the current on the P4 pin of about 0.7 amp when working. And 1 amp during boot and startup. I found these mentioned currents very high. So I measured them myself. “
        
        I did this by heart. But my memory wasn’t far off.
        
        Your post:
        Posted by Ryelands on December 27, 2008 at 11:06:42
        ………..
        Incidentally, it also makes it easy (ish) directly to measure the CPU’s current draw, something I’ve never seen reported (though I’m sure it’s done often enough). So far, I’ve measured it only briefly and only on the 65nm Biostar board.
        
        I had assumed it would vary wildly but it was surprisingly stable: an E1200 processor drew 1.4 amps on power-up and during POST but, as the OS loaded, it dropped to and stayed at between 0.7 and 0.8 amps and rose again by about 100 milliamps when running cPlay (without upsampling).
        ………..
        
        Since I found these mentioned currents very high (for my Gibabyte GA-G31M-S2L mobo + E7200 processor), I decided to measure the currents on my P4 pin myself and also post the results on this forum.
        
        So owners of a Biostar board + E1200 processor can use your readings.
        And owners of a GA-G31M-S2L + E7200 processor can use my readings.
        No more, no less.
        
        After that you jump on me with pretty strong language and lengthy discussions on a wide variety of topics. The rest one can read in the former episodes of this post.
        
        I now consider this case / post closed.
        
        LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
- RE: Current measurements on powersupply P4 pin - theob 12:10:23 04/06/09 (1)
  do you run a cpu fan or are you using a fanless cooler? if so which one
  - if you can, get rid of the processor fan. :-) RE: Current measurements on powersupply P4 pin - hfavandepas 15:48:02 04/06/09 (0)
    Hi Theo,
    
    I use a fanless cooler. This one:
    http://www.nexustek.nl/NXS-LOW-7000_silent-7cm-high-CPU-Cooler.htm .
    From which I detached the fan part.
    
    If I remember correctly I red in one of your posts lately, that you still use your processor fan.
    If you run your processor at voltages lower than 1.0000 volt and you also under-clock, then I would go for fanless.
    It made an improvement in SQ in my setup.
    
    Some background:
    At first, I ran the E7300 processor a few weeks with the original cooler that came with the processor.
    I couldn’t find the type of fanless cooler that Cics shows in his AOB manual. And when I finally did find it, I found it horribly expensive.
    But in those few weeks I had seen that, when under-volted and under clocked, the CPU doesn’t run hot. So I decided that other cooler models with enough heatpipes and a large exchange surface, probably also would do the job.
    
    Very strange discovery:
    There was an improvement in sound quality, when I changed from the original cooler too the fanless cooler.
    The strange part is: …… I never powered the original coolerfan from the mobo. While using the original fan for a few weeks, I powered the original coolerfan from the second external PSU that also powers the HDD, USB, DVD. So I expected to find no difference in sound quality when removing the orginal fan. Because it wasn’t powered by the mobo, but powered by the second external PSU.
    
    Somewhat strange:
    This couldn’t be repeated with the coolerfan in my Zahlman ZM600-HP PSU.
    Running the Zahlman coolerfan from the second PSU also made a little improvement in SQ.
    But completely removing the fan from the PSU unit (just like removing the fan from the processor) didn’t make any further improvements in SQ.
    
    So if you can, get rid of the processor fan.
    :-)
    Even though the processor coolerfan was powered by a second external PSU, the original fan and the processor ‘didn’t like each other’ in my setup.
    
    ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
RE: what am i doing wrong with cMP and Foobar? - audiogremlin 18:47:40 04/03/09 (2)
I editted the second line to load foobar instead of cPlay as directed in the guide and as directed by other users. When I double click the cMP shortcut to start cMP, it starts but I have no idea what to do once the cMP interface starts up. Isn't it suppose to automatically start Foobar? Am I suppose to manually load it?
- RE: what am i doing wrong with cMP and Foobar? - Dawnrazor 22:01:06 04/03/09 (1)
  With Cmp running, the selected player only plays when you select an album in cmp.
  
  Basically it functions as content management and you select another player to play the song.
  
  In a very general sense it is like clicking on the cue file in an explorer window or say the my music folder, and this brings up the default player. It is just that cmp replaces explorer and when you select the albums it show, it brings up the player.
  
  Any luck with media monkey?
  - RE: what am i doing wrong with cMP and Foobar? - audiogremlin 12:13:28 04/04/09 (0)
    MediaMonkey definitely worked better than dBPowerAmp. There were no wrap-around errors.
    
    I finally figured out what cPlay didn't like about my cue files. cMP with Foobar gave more helpful errors and I was able to find out that cPlay didn't like the c:\music in my path. It also did not like any cue sheet that had an extra space at the end of the sheet.
    
    cMP and cPlay are working now and it was definitely worth the effort.
    
    Thanks.
Got cPlay to play 192 via firewire with Asio4All but not cMP2 - riboge 11:55:56 04/03/09 (2)
Starting from cMP in xp mode selecting a cuesheet opens cPlay with "Asio" in the bottom left which in a few seconds changes to "Media" but hangs there and one must restart the computer.

Edits: 04/05/09
- Solved - riboge 11:20:08 04/09/09 (0)
  Weiss asio only works with the SSE4 version of cPlay. I had been using the SSSE3 one. Also, Use audio features needs to be selected under the properties of the device.
- Help! cMP2 setup blocks Weiss asio - riboge 13:59:27 04/08/09 (0)
  I have learned that in an unmodified xp pro system I can get cPlay and the Weiss contol softare, for that matter, to recognize its asio and the device. In my much-of-the-way cMP2 setup, the Weiss software says the device is inaccessible and cPlay doesn't find the Weiss asio but only finds asio4all for the dac. Any suggestion about what to unmodify to get this firewire device and asio driver to be accessible?
  
  Edits: 04/08/09
RE: how to use foobar with cMP - audiogremlin 09:00:01 04/03/09 (4)
I'm having no luck with cPlay. Can someone tell me how I can get cMP to work with Foobar?

Thanks in advance.
- RE: how to use foobar with cMP - Ryelands 09:14:16 04/03/09 (3)
  There is a file in cMP's program folder called cicsMemoryPlayer.pth
  
  Edit the second line to read:
  
  CUE_PLAYER #N "C:\Program Files\foobar2000\foobar2000.exe" %C
  
  (or as appropriate).
  
  Dave
  - RE: how to use foobar with cMP - audiogremlin 09:56:49 04/03/09 (2)
    Thanks very much.
    One other question...I know cMP is built to work with cPlay but do you know if there is much sonic difference if I use Foobar with cMP? Is this worth doing since I can't get cPlay to work with all the files I want to use?
    - RE: how to use foobar with cMP - Ryelands 10:06:11 04/03/09 (1)
      audiogremlin wrote:
      
      Do you know if there is much sonic difference if I use Foobar with cMP?
      
      The consensus seems to be that there is. FWIW, I agree.
      
      However, as it takes about 30 seconds to get Foobar to work with cMP, why not do that until you sort out your problem with cPlay? Then you re-edit the .pth file and . . . well, you get the idea.
      
      As you'll see from my reply to your other post, cPlay handles files sourced ( in extremis ) from MP3 data just fine.
      
      Dave
      - RE: how to use foobar with cMP - audiogremlin 12:59:24 04/03/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: how to use foobar with cMP posted by Ryelands on April 03, 2009 at 10:06:11
        
        cMP loads music files into memory so in cPlay, you don't need to select the option to load into memory. Does this hold true if using cMP with Foobar? My current Foobar setup is set to 100 for buffer size as per the Art of Building Computer Transports doc. I believe setting it to 100 means Foobar is reading directly from disk, not RAM. If using cMP with Foobar, do I need to set the buffer size higher or leave it as is because cMP automatically loads to memory?
        
        Thanks.
Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but... - theob 12:12:10 04/01/09 (22)
...... the tics, drop outs, metallics, fuzzies got so bad today I could not listen to cplay 20(through juli@ analague outs) so I loaded cplay 18 back in. Not a tic, drop out, no fuzzies, no anamolies. I put it back to 150 host clock control: it boots, it plays great.

Its interesting because I get about the same cpu usage as cplay 20 and 18 is not as good sonically but something about my machine does not allow cplay 20 to play w/o problems.

Does this make any sense to you?
- RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but... - mschneider 14:31:36 04/07/09 (1)
  greetings from left field!!!! i am not sure if this is the cause or even a cause, but i noticed both of your pc cases, and several other things re on carpet -- perhaps you are experiencing some sort of static problem -- i've had audio gear which sounded like dog sh*t placed directly on carpet.
  
  try to put a board or some kind under the machines, and keep them from touching the carpet-- also, put something other than the foam under the cap-mod board. this may also be producing static electricity effects.
  
  may not solve the problem, but you may get some sonic benefits anyway.....
  
  see what happens and let me know.
  - RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but... - theob 16:24:08 04/07/09 (0)
    good ideas thanks
- If you can now be sure it is not the DAC ... - rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com 09:31:13 04/03/09 (10)
  It must be the MB.
  
  Have you ever replaced your MB?
  
  My gut instinct is a failing southbridge.
  
  Bye,
  
  Rick McInnis
  - RE: If you can now be sure it is not the DAC ... - theob 11:55:39 04/03/09 (7)
    great suggestion. are you suggesting the traffic between ram and cpu (presumably directed by southbridge) is amiss? make sense for my data. but why does my pc work with cplay 2.0 b18 but not 2.0 b19 or b20?
    - A mystery unless ... - rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com 12:18:02 04/03/09 (6)
      it has something to do with, I am surmising, how cPLAY instructs the hardware. But, I seem to remember you having this problem with THAT version (the one you say is working) at one time. Feel free to correct me.
      
      I think it has to do with re-booting. Whatever is bothering IT is cleared at re-boot and eventually IT gets corrupted again. Or maybe it has something to do with installation, but that seems tenuous.
      
      Are you saying you ALWAYS get the metallic sound with #20 even at start-up?
      
      If so, maybe it has something to do with the new instructions set? I am not a computer guy, I can get see the concepts but the details - I have no knowledge.
      
      In my experience there is such a thing as a defective MB. I would give this a try. At least, it is a simple swap!
      
      Bye,
      
      Rick McInnis
      - RE: A mystery unless ... - theob 12:49:06 04/03/09 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: A mystery unless ... posted by rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com on April 03, 2009 at 12:18:02
        
        gosh I'm sure I know less than you but I do know I played cplay 2.0 b 18 for 6 days no trouble initially then I moved on to version 19/20. The last several days(2 or 3 I think) I've been playing 18 no troubles and this is with eist disabled, hcc set at 150, 146 src @ 192 Khz(the most aggressive settings). It seems like (emphasis on the seems!!) that all the cplay versions associated with IMPROVED ASIO EFFIENCY have ultimately failed (in the sense of metallic sonics eventually). Not when I boot up 20. it sounds great for anywhere from 5-35 minutes before it goes metallic. Let me try to be clear about what the 'metallic overlay' I describe, sounds like. If you go into program files and delete one of the two Juli@ files (like juli@Pan) and then play cplay it sounds exactly like that. I tried it once just to see if it would work and if it worked how it would sound. So I believe that somehow my rig is overwriting or deleting or otherwise corrupting my juli@ drivers when I play 19 or 20 or 15, 16, 17 but not 18.
        When I was into 19 and went back to 18 I got the metallics if I didn't reboot (right after running 19 into the metallics). Once I rebooted 18 was fine indefinitely.
        
        Edits: 04/03/09 04/04/09
        
        Rick and Cics: more data on my issue - theob 10:10:46 04/04/09 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: A mystery unless ... posted by theob on April 03, 2009 at 12:49:06
        
        My gut is I don't think it is hw unless my processor or mobo can't handle version 20. I ran task mgr on both versions and cpu load is about the same. So I conclude processor at least is ok. But why would mobo work ok with 18 but not 20? Still no good answer.
        
        Also I'm working with some other inmates in an effort to figure this out. I ran a torture test (with bios @ load optimized defaults) to see if I pass or fail. I ran an hour or so with no failures so my conclusion is mobo or processor are probably ok.
        
        But then when I ran cplay it would not start. I got a cplay error diagnostic saying that I didn't have enough memory. Very strange, this could be related to my problem because when I rebooted all was ok. Cplay 20 then ran great for 30 minutes (no metallics) but didn't sound good (remember all 'load optimized defaults' in bios). So I then lowered host clock control to 150 (and reset all bios per cics spec except core voltage) and it went metallic right away. I began upping hcc until I got stable cplay @ 190 but it still sounded hard. So leaving the clock @ 190 I began lowering core voltage, got to .9 volts and boom: metallic. So I concluded that the bios levels that got me no metallics sounded bad with cplay 20. I reset all bios to all of cics specs, reloaded 18 and I get stable playback and decent sonics.
        
        Still sound like the mobo to you? Kind of does to me but appreciate your feedback.
        I'm running the torture test now at cics bios specs.
        
        Edits: 04/04/09
        
        Why obsess on the processor? - rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com 14:30:31 04/04/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Rick and Cics: more data on my issue posted by theob on April 04, 2009 at 10:10:46
        
        Dear Theo,
        
        I do not think anyone has suggested the processor.
        
        From the little I know (part of the more you know the more you discover you don't know syndrome) none of those tests would detect problems with the southbridge which the processor instructs which paths to open and close as needed.
        
        Why a malfunction there would make the noises you are hearing is completely beyond me. BUT, I know I ruined an MB by stressing the SB and it no longer worked at all. I surmise that something has stressed your SB and that is why it is acting the way it does.
        
        In any case, spending seventy dollars to verify this is a pittance in comparison to replacing your DAC, which you considered at one time. And, until this is verified you are completely in the dark. Not to say you might chance upon something else that turns out to be the problem, but barring that, this is about as important a place to start as one can think of.
        
        Until you are sure it is NOT the MB it is next to impossible to help you. All any of us can do is throw suggestions to you and these are going to become increasingly arcane since you have tried just about everything BUT replacing the MB.
        
        One good thing about this is that it should not require any reloading of software or re-implementing cics's settings. If it does, then that would mean your previous MB was not only corrupting itself but also the HDD.
        
        And, if it doesn't help at all you have a back up or a board, I feel sure, you would have no trouble selling.
        
        Bye,
        
        Rick McInnis
        
        ok I've got a new mobo installed - theob 13:42:22 04/09/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Why obsess on the processor? posted by rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com on April 04, 2009 at 14:30:31
        
        ok I've got a new mobo installed. I had to reflash F6x drivers and reset bios but ok now and it boots ok.
        
        I'll let it run a few days with cplay 2.0b vs 18. Once burned in and stable I'll try to see if it affected my noise while running cplay 2.0b version 20.
        
        Failed again although new mobo sounds alot better - theob 03:13:06 04/10/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: ok I've got a new mobo installed posted by theob on April 09, 2009 at 13:42:22
        
        Went metallic after 35 minutes of cplay 2.0b vs 20 playback. I guess it is really the cpu now.
        
        Sidebar note though: the new mobo sounds way better than old. Very solid bass and apparently more dynamic.
        
        If new cpu doesn't do it I'm done with the quest--nowhere else to go.
        
        RE: Why obsess on the processor? - theob 15:40:59 04/04/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Why obsess on the processor? posted by rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com on April 04, 2009 at 14:30:31
        
        thank you rick as always you're there to offer help.
  - I would 2nd that - cics 10:19:15 04/03/09 (1)
    Nice pictures Theob.
    - RE: I would 2nd that - theob 10:41:51 04/03/09 (0)
      ok gotta find one now
- RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but... - GStew 20:04:28 04/01/09 (8)
  Theob,
  
  I wonder if we've been going at this the wrong way. Since noone else is reporting a similar problem (some have reported similar issues that have appeared sporatically, but noone has reported as consistent of an issue as you), there must be something unique with your setup that that is causing the issue.
  
  I think that replacing different pieces of hardware was a good way to attack the issue initially, but you have very little to replace at this point.
  
  I have gotten the impression that you have done some things differently than a stock mainstream cMP2/cPLAY setup. Can you describe your hardware & software setup in toto, including a few pictures of your setup.
  
  This will let us brainstorm and attack this from a different direction.
  
  Thanks!
  
  Greg in Mississippi
  - RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but... - theob 03:15:56 04/02/09 (7)
    1st pic shows audio pc case in foreground, home pc in background. Notice hammond inductor on top of home pc, granite digital leads going into audio pc on right/left of case.
    Hw: an intel e7200, kingston 256mb ram, western digital 3.5" hdd's(one 250 gb one 500 gb), gigabyte mobo (one recommended by cics, forgot # but see below in cpuz output), 2 juli@ stock cards (one set up to run bnc out to my Benchmark dac1 and one to run analogue outs), Antec 430 earthwatts power supply with p24 cap mod.
    Sw: all optimizations on my xp pro Windows sp2 through minlogon. There were a few optimizations I could not do (selections not available in my Windows or optimization caused bsod) but very few. I use f6x software on gigabyte BIOS.
    bios set up: 150 hcc, memory 3 3 3 5 timings; .86 core voltage, eist disabled, usb 2.0 enabled (so I can dl music on fd and transfer to my audio pc hdd)here is a partial dump of my cpuz registers
    CPU-Z version 1.49
    -------------------------
    Processors Map
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Number of processors 1
    Number of threads 2
    Processor 0
    -- Core 0
    -- Thread 0
    -- Core 1
    -- Thread 0
    
    Processors Information
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Processor 1 (ID = 0)
    Number of cores 2 (max 2)
    Number of threads 2 (max 2)
    Name Intel Core 2 Duo E7200
    Codename Wolfdale
    Specification Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E7200 @ 2.53GHz
    Package Socket 775 LGA (platform ID = 0h)
    CPUID 6.7.6
    Extended CPUID 6.17
    Core Stepping M0
    Technology 45 nm
    Core Speed 900.0 MHz (6.0 x 150.0 MHz)
    Rated Bus speed 600.0 MHz
    Stock frequency 2533 MHz
    Instructions sets MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, EM64T
    L1 Data cache 2 x 32 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64-byte line size
    L1 Instruction cache 2 x 32 KBytes, 8-way set associative, 64-byte line size
    L2 cache 3072 KBytes, 12-way set associative, 64-byte line size
    FID/VID Control yes
    FID range 6.0x - 9.5x
    max VID 1.013 V
    Features
    Chipset
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Northbridge Intel P35/G33/G31 rev. 10
    Southbridge Intel 82801GB (ICH7/R) rev. A1
    Memory Type DDR2
    Memory Size 256 MBytes
    Channels Single
    Memory Frequency 150.0 MHz (1:1)
    CAS# 3.0
    RAS# to CAS# 3
    RAS# Precharge 3
    Cycle Time (tRAS) 5
    Command Rate 2T
    
    Memory SPD
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DIMM #1
    General
    Memory type DDR2
    Module format Regular UDIMM
    Manufacturer (ID) Kingston (7F98000000000000)
    Size 256 MBytes
    Max bandwidth PC2-4300 (266 MHz)
    Part number 9905273-003.B02LF
    Serial number B6CC224D
    Manufacturing date Week 02/Year 09
    Attributes
    Number of banks 1
    Data width 64 bits
    Correction None
    Nominal Voltage 1.80 Volts
    EPP no
    XMP no
    Timings table
    Frequency (MHz) 200 266
    CAS# 3.0 4.0
    RAS# to CAS# delay 3 4
    RAS# Precharge 3 4
    TRAS 9 12
    TRC 12 16
    
    Monitoring
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Mainboard Model G31M-S2L (0x1F6 - 0x9CE9BC)
    
    Hardware monitor
    -----------------------------------------------------
    ITE IT87 hardware monitor
    Voltage sensor 0 0.85 Volts [0x35] (CPU VCORE)
    Voltage sensor 1 1.87 Volts [0x75] (DDR)
    Voltage sensor 2 3.36 Volts [0xD2] (+3.3V)
    Voltage sensor 3 4.89 Volts [0xB6] (+5V)
    Voltage sensor 4 12.29 Volts [0xC0] (+12V) [ this is really 11.82 volts as measured by my vom ]
    Voltage sensor 8 3.25 Volts [0xCB] (VBAT)
    Temperature sensor 2 26°C (78°F) [0x1A] (CPU)
    Fan sensor 0 943 RPM [0x2CC] (FANIN0)
    
    Hardware monitor
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Intel Core 2 Duo E7200 hardware monitor
    Temperature sensor 0 45°C (112°F) [0x37] (Core #0)
    Temperature sensor 1 35°C (94°F) [0x41] (Core #1)
    
    Also I have my processor and ps fans still operating. (this is a major difference from others)
    Also your assertion that others are not affected is not true. Others are but I will not id them as it appears they want anonymity on AA but they have contacted me.
    One other point is that I get no problems with cplay 18 or 14 and below. Problem started ocurring with cplay 15 (not saying it is cplay sw but something with certain versions of cplay and my audio pc are not compatible). I think the feature unique to these cplay versions are '...More efficient ASIO output...' achieved or '...improved Asio efficiciency...' etc. I have been playing cplay 18 (via digital out to my dac1 )for about 8 straight hours not even a blip. Yesterday was the worst day ever experienced(lots of power line noise) for hiccups, dropouts, fuzzy metallic noise over analogue outs which prompted me to go back to cplay 18.
    Things suspected but ruled out by tests or hw replacement are: juli@ drivers, juli@ cards, power supplies, memory, granite digitals, Windows software, power conditioners, power cords, mains outlets in my room, music on flash drive (vs hdd).
    
    Edits: 04/02/09 04/02/09 04/02/09 04/02/09 04/02/09
    - RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but... - theob 06:49:25 04/02/09 (6)
      2nd pic shows open audio pc. notice p24 mod on perf board on bottom of case. If you look carefully you'll see juli@ digital sound card with alfred's mod for taking digital out from juli@ circuit board thereby bypassing breakout cable. also it looks like cpu fan is not running but it is (fast lens shot)
      - RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but... - theob 06:55:47 04/02/09 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but... posted by theob on April 02, 2009 at 06:49:25
        
        Pic 3 notice plumbers non conductive seal compound (gooing almost claylike) holding battery in place (had to reboot by taking battery out several times and it loosened the prongs holding battery. notice also closer look @ juli@. Fan also looks like it is off but it's not. Fast lens setting shot
        
        Edits: 04/02/09
        
        RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but... - theob 07:01:00 04/02/09 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but... posted by theob on April 02, 2009 at 06:55:47
        
        next pic shows overall environment for audio/home pc. notice Power cord to audio pc KimberKable Palladium. Also cmp display is an old fashioned crt left over from years ago (hey it was free!)
        
        RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but... - theob 07:07:12 04/02/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but... posted by theob on April 02, 2009 at 07:01:00
        
        last pic is of Benchmark Dac1 sitting behind my home pc display
        
        RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but... - Dawnrazor 11:12:49 04/04/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but... posted by theob on April 02, 2009 at 07:07:12
        
        Hey Theob,
        
        I doubt i could help with your issue. I have little experience with problems with cmp2.
        
        But I can help with the photos (nice system by the way). You can post more than one photo per post by finding the photo and then hitting "preview message". That adds some html at the top of your post. That HTML is your picture. You can move it wherever you want. Then add another pict and press "preview message"
        
        Now you have a 2nd line of html for the 2nd picture, etc...
        
        testing pic posting - Dr.Jazz 17:12:49 04/05/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but... posted by Dawnrazor on April 04, 2009 at 11:12:49
        
        Testing pic posting
        
        second one
        
        RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but... - theob 11:18:56 04/04/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Cics: hate to be a pia on my issue but... posted by Dawnrazor on April 04, 2009 at 11:12:49
        
        I wondered how to do that. Thanks!
Installed new hdd, reinstalled old one on which I have ... - theob 06:02:19 04/01/09 (0)
... clonegenius. So I copied to my new c partition but it doesn't run. How do I get it to run?
I should mention I reloaded windows on new hdd/did all windows optimizations through autoruns, minlogon. I kept old hdd out of system then reinstalled today to get clone genius from old os into new os. but it doesn't work. any of you clonegenius experts pls comment.

Edits: 04/01/09
add /nopae to boot.ini. Somehow I missed this one. - hfavandepas 03:57:34 04/01/09 (24)
Yesterday I added ‘/nopae’ to the boot.ini file
It made a significant (!) improvement in SQ.
The improvement in SQ is in the same range as putting the extra caps on the Antec Earthwatts 430 mobo power supply leads P4 and P20/24.

Since I overlooked Cics posting on the adding of ‘nopae’ too the boot.ini file and since there also weren’t any reply’s on that post, I guess many others will also have overlooked it either.

This brings me too a contribution I could do to this project. Although I have a degree in engineering, I don’t have any knowledge of IT, electronics, PC’s and software. So I can’t make a any contributions in these area’s, but I could make a contribution in the information / manual area.

I could update Cics manuals and information on the AOB computertransport, cMP and Cplay. Since the project already runs for 2 years the information has scattered over many forumposts. That’s how I missed the /nopea information.

So Cics if you think it’s a good contribution to the project too update the information in your manuals please e-mail me.

My job can be very bussy at times, so I can’t comply too real hard deadlines. But I think it would be nice if al relevant information which is now somewhat scattered in the forum, is put together once again in a new updated manual. This way I’m not only taking from this project, but I i'm also bringing too this nice project.

ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
- Definitely keep the /nopae option - cics 10:25:56 04/03/09 (0)
  Thanks for discovering this again.
  
  I suspect /nopea & /nopae has /nop in common (and its unique) and that's why you got same results - just an educated guess as I don't think there's a sophisticated parser at work.
  
  /nopae works - initial few hours (at least 48 hours), HF is more forward but this settles down. A lot has changed since I last tested this.
- Going to retest "/nopae" - cics 11:31:50 04/01/09 (3)
  My interest in using "/nopae" was to force the kernel into 32 bit addressing (and not 36+), i.e. less address lines. There were some issues I had but will retest.
  
  New documentation is planned and I will get to it once cPlay 2.0 is finalised. It's looking very good with the help of other inmates. Will be great if you could assist in proof reading the material.
  - RE: Going to retest "/nopae" - hfavandepas 12:44:31 04/01/09 (2)
    Hi Cics,
    
    Thankx for reply. So my offer in helping too update the manual is already done by other inmates. I would be glad to do some proof ready. Let me know.
    
    About the ‘/nopae’ swith voor the kernel.
    This information from microsoft confused me.
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms791539.aspx
    It says:
    “On Windows XP with SP2, when you disable DEP by using /noexecute=alwaysoff, Windows disables both DEP and PAE. This is the equivalent of using /noexecute=alwaysoff /nopae. “
    
    Since /noexecute=alwaysoff is already in the cMP2 boot.ini file, the extra addition of ‘/nopae’ shouldn’t be necessary.
    
    But I added '/nopae' anyhow.
    I was surprised by the significant change in sound.
    The difference perceived by me, is definitely not a ‘placebo-effect’ that is fooling me.
    The difference in sound is just too big/significant for that.
    I also label the difference as being: better.
    
    Since the Microsoft information is confusimg, I searched for other inmates who really tried it. But it looks like Theob is the only one who really tried it.
    
    What your opinion on the change in sound?
    Do you label it as being beter ?
    
    ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
    - RE: Going to retest "/nopae" - monaco 03:10:22 04/02/09 (1)
      Hi cics / hfavandepas
      
      I have just added '/nopae' to my limited cMP2 rig and have achieved similar sonic results (more 3dimensional image and solid bass).
      
      My old laptop rig consists of the following:
      CPU Intel Celeron 650MHz (SSE instruction set)
      RAM 192MB (max)
      XP Pro SP1
      cMP 1.2
      cPlay 2.04 (due to my limited RAM)
      
      regards
      monaco
      - Thankx for trying and feedback Hope others wil try to. RE: Going to retest "/nopae" - hfavandepas 04:23:18 04/02/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Going to retest "/nopae" posted by monaco on April 02, 2009 at 03:10:22
        
        Hi Monaco,
        
        Thank you for trying and feedback.
        
        ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
- RE: add /nopae to boot.ini. Somehow I missed this one. - theob 04:21:11 04/01/09 (18)
  cics added but then took away this nopae recommendation for other technical reasons.
  - better or worse SQ ? RE: add /nopae to boot.ini. Somehow I missed this one. - hfavandepas 04:50:18 04/01/09 (17)
    Hi Theo,
    
    This is exactly why I offered Cics too collect and update the scattered information on this project.
    
    First there was this post on 2008-08-29:
    Don't use "/nopae" optimisation (5.25) Posted by cics on 2008-08-29, 10:16:42
    
    But 1,5 weeks later there was this one on 2008-09-08:
    Further improvement is gained with "/nopae" optimisation (3.48)
    Posted by cics on 2008-09-08, 05:00:19 (196.11.134.77)
    I've edited the cMP Update post with this change (see bottom). Only use "/nopae" in the context described.
    
    So I think many missed this post, because I see very few reply’s on this post.
    That’s very strange because the difference in sound is significant.
    I expected at least so see discussions on whether it is an improvement or an dis-improvement. But not even that. Nothing. No comments on SQ.
    While all other (very little) tweaks are extensively discussed,
    hardly anyone discusses this one on SQ.
    But changes in sound (in my setup) are significant.
    Sow I thought this post must be overlooked by many.
    
    Too make a statement: in my setup it sounds not different, I think it sounds beter.
    In what way beter? In the same way better, as the extra caps did on the Antec 430.
    
    ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
    - Please state conditions for using nopae - riboge 12:11:35 04/01/09 (14)
      I cannot find the update post that mentions \nopae. Could you please clarify what the circumstances are in which to use this.
      - RE: Please state conditions for using nopae - hfavandepas 12:56:53 04/01/09 (13)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Please state conditions for using nopae posted by riboge on April 01, 2009 at 12:11:35
        
        Search for ‘nopae’ with the search function, and you wil find this post:
        
        Further improvement is gained with "/nopae" optimisation (9.89)
        Posted by cics on 2008-09-08, 05:00:19 (196.11.134.77)
        I've edited the cMP Update post with this change (see bottom). Only use "/nopae" in the context described. .......
        
        http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=pcaudio&n=36517&highlight=nopae&r=
        
        From here you go too:
        cMP update:
        http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/3/36343.html
        Here you find the context described.
        
        This is why I offered Cics toe help rewriting the documentation.
        I think is have become too much scattered during time in al kinds of posts.
        
        ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
        
        RE: Please state conditions for using nopae - riboge 16:07:27 04/01/09 (12)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Please state conditions for using nopae posted by hfavandepas on April 01, 2009 at 12:56:53
        
        I had seen those already, but it remains unclear. There is no mention of nopae in the Update. The update describes a system with Gigabyte mb, a specific E7200 cpu, and many settings including to turn Eist on in the bios (which someone reported was needed for /nopae to be helpful). Is the context the mb and cpu or is it also each and every instruction in the update or only some of them? It remains unclear if all these are necessary and on what basis all other mb's and cpus are ruled out. Couldn't it be that other combinations would benefit from /nopae, especially if they allow turning Eist on?
        
        Writing a manual that makes things truly clear is not an easy thing. I can help if you like.
        
        why not just try it ? RE: Please state conditions for using nopae - hfavandepas 03:57:10 04/02/09 (11)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Please state conditions for using nopae posted by riboge on April 01, 2009 at 16:07:27
        
        Hi Riboge,
        
        Thankx for your response.
        Why not just try it? And let your ears decide.
        
        I agry it’s unclear.
        But in The Netherlands (where I live) we have a saying: ‘Proberen gaat boven studeren’.
        Which means something like: ‘trying goes above (endless) studying’
        And that’s what I did: I just tried it.
        Risks of trying are low.
        What worse things could happen if you try ?
        
        Adding /nopea gave a significant difference in sound.
        ( /noexecute=alwaysoff /fastdetect /nopea /timeres=9800 /nodebug /pcilock /3GB )
        I use the word ‘different’, because different isn’t always ‘beter’.
        
        But to my ears it is significantly beter.
        In what way beter?
        In the same category of ‘beter’ than the ‘cap-mod’ on the P4-powerline and the P20/24 powerlines from the PSU to the mobo I did last weekend.
        (with cheap caps, no expensive ‘audiophile’ caps)
        
        I know sometimes it can be difficult to decide if a difference is also ‘better’
        And also if one isn’t fooled by ‘the placebo-effect’
        But what other options are there than just to try?
        
        So let me know what your ears are telling you.
        :-)
        
        (system: mobo Gigabyte: ga-g31m-s2l bios: F9 Processor: intel E7200 RAM: 2 x 1Gb ram Kingston low latency KHX6400D2LL/1G1GB 800MHz DDR2 Non-ECC CL4.
        I don’t use the EIST function with corresponding XP power-settings, since I can’t hear any sound differences when its ‘on’ or ‘off’. But I do see an extra 1 or 2 µs latency in dpclat when EIST + XP powersettings are enabled. So for the time being it stay’s off)
        
        ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
        
        WATCH OUT for typo in parameter string... - gjwAudio 20:51:24 04/02/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: why not just try it ? RE: Please state conditions for using nopae posted by hfavandepas on April 02, 2009 at 03:57:10
        
        Hi hfavandepas
        
        Great topic - The Lost Tweak !!
        
        I mean no disrespect to anyone here, just a little pointer to my fellow cMP Comrades... Don't Be Lazy and cut-n-paste the entire parameter string from this post into your BOOT.INI file (...like I did).
        
        You'll find the switch-in-question suffers a typo - "/nopEA" should be "/nopAE" (my uppercase, to indicate the trouble).
        
        "Caveat" indeed !
        
        Cheers,
        Grant
        
        That's not a Toy... IT'S A TOOL !!
        
        Microsoft helpfiles are confusing too. So keep try-ing - hfavandepas 02:55:10 04/03/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: WATCH OUT for typo in parameter string... posted by gjwAudio on April 02, 2009 at 20:51:24
        
        Still being somewhat ashamed (understatement) because of the typo i made (/nopea),
        I again looked up the microsoft help-pages. These pages make the confusion complete
        (links see below)
        
        So just keep try-ing and give feedback on what your ears are telling you.
        (though keep in mind the possibility of a placebo-effect)
        
        Links to MS help pages:
        
        http://support.microsoft.com/kb/900524 says:
        Disable PAE mode in Windows XP with SP2 and later versions of Windows XP
        Add the following switches to the Windows XP Boot.ini file:
        /noexecute=alwaysoff /NOPAE
        For example, the Boot.ini file may appear as follows:
        [boot loader]
        timeout=30
        default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
        [operating systems]
        multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP" /fastdetect /noexecute=alwaysoff /NOPAE
        
        http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms791539.aspx says:
        DEP and PAE
        On Windows XP with SP2, , when you disable DEP by using /noexecute=alwaysoff, Windows disables both DEP and PAE. This is the equivalent of using /noexecute=alwaysoff /nopae.
        
        ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
        
        sh..... The typo (/nopea) was in my boot.ini ! Confusion complete - hfavandepas 00:40:21 04/03/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: WATCH OUT for typo in parameter string... posted by gjwAudio on April 02, 2009 at 20:51:24
        
        Hi Grant,
        
        It's even more confusing too me now....
        
        I ran to my cMP PC to see if the typo (/nopea) was in the boot.ini
        And it was !!
        :-(
        
        Like I mentioned earlier in a post too Cics:
        Microsoft writes about /nopae:
        “On Windows XP with SP2, , when you disable DEP by using /noexecute=alwaysoff, Windows disables both DEP and PAE. This is the equivalent of using /noexecute=alwaysoff /nopae.”
        See: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms791539.aspx
        
        But what is happening in my PC, with this typo (/nopea) in my boot.ini ?
        I definitely hear a significant difference in sound quality (better too my ears)
        Does the typo disable ‘alwaysoff’?
        
        I’m always very much aware of the possibility of the placebo-effect.
        That’s why I always ask others to try too.
        
        For now let’s wait what Cics has too say
        
        ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
        
        Correct parameter makes POSITIVE Difference... - gjwAudio 11:31:11 04/03/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: sh..... The typo (/nopea) was in my boot.ini ! Confusion complete posted by hfavandepas on April 03, 2009 at 00:40:21
        
        Hi hfavandepas
        
        Thanks for stirring up attention to this adjustment - in my setup, it makes the sound "better"... and that's another little step forward for the cMP Miracle.
        
        As to what the MS documentation says... maybe the guy who wrote the doc hasn't talked to the guy who wrote the code... cause there's no placebo going on in my room - the change is real... and really welcome !
        
        It's like getting new cPlay update from cics... just a little bit better every time.
        
        Happy Listening All !
        Cheers,
        Grant
        
        That's not a Toy... IT'S A TOOL !!
        
        RE: why not just try it ? RE: Please state conditions for using nopae - clare t 12:55:59 04/02/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: why not just try it ? RE: Please state conditions for using nopae posted by hfavandepas on April 02, 2009 at 03:57:10
        
        Thank you for bringing up the /nopae optimization. The SQ improvement is indeed too significant to be dismiss as a placebo. Soundstaging improved noticeably, and bass seems more defined.
        
        Cics brought it up. Thankx for trying /nopae and your feedback ! - hfavandepas 13:35:19 04/02/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: why not just try it ? RE: Please state conditions for using nopae posted by clare t on April 02, 2009 at 12:55:59
        
        Hi Clare t,
        
        Cics brought it up. Not me. The honor goes too Cics.
        But as Cics wasn’t sure about it, probably nobody really tried it.
        There was hardly any response too Cics /nopae post.
        
        But in my setup I think it’s better (not just different).
        
        Thankx for trying and feedback.
        Hope others will try it too and post there feed back
        
        ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
        
        I meant thanks for bringing it to our attention, I wasn't even aware of its existence in the thread! nt. - clare t 13:42:19 04/02/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Cics brought it up. Thankx for trying /nopae and your feedback ! posted by hfavandepas on April 02, 2009 at 13:35:19
        
        .
        
        Your edit seems to be a caveat - riboge 09:55:59 04/02/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: why not just try it ? RE: Please state conditions for using nopae posted by hfavandepas on April 02, 2009 at 03:57:10
        
        I have now tried it with my Lenovo thinkpad. It may be a slight improvement or the same, hard to be sure, certainly not worse.
        
        My point was your edit about 'only in this context' implies a danger in doing it in a different one, e.g., mine. Perhaps it should say it is only known to help with these components and it is unknown whether there are problems with others.
        
        RE: Your edit seems to be a caveat - hfavandepas 10:24:47 04/02/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Your edit seems to be a caveat posted by riboge on April 02, 2009 at 09:55:59
        
        ‘Caveat’ ??? Hmm wonder what that means…..
        I’m not a native English speaker. So you got me googl-ing on ‘caveat’
        Now I understand what you mean.
        
        The following piece of text was not mine. It’s the search-result of ‘nopae’. It’s Cics text.
        If you do a search by yourself on ‘nopae’ you will see:
        
        Further improvement is gained with "/nopae" optimisation (9.89)
        Posted by cics on 2008-09-08, 05:00:19 (196.11.134.77)
        I've edited the cMP Update post with this change (see bottom). Only use "/nopae" in the context described. .......
        
        ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
        
        RE: Your edit seems to be a caveat - riboge 12:14:37 04/02/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Your edit seems to be a caveat posted by hfavandepas on April 02, 2009 at 10:24:47
        
        Sorry, I guess I was even more confused than I realized. I read your post to mean you made the edit. I guess my comment was meant for cics. And I still haven't gotten over studying Latin in school. Caveat is Latin for Beware or Be Warned. Anyway, you got me to try nopae, so something good came of it.
        
        :-) No problem. At least you tried /nopae ! - hfavandepas 12:30:27 04/02/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Your edit seems to be a caveat posted by riboge on April 02, 2009 at 12:14:37
        
        Hi Riboge,
        
        No problem, can happen.
        At least you tried /nopae
        
        ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
    - RE: better or worse SQ ? RE: add /nopae to boot.ini. Somehow I missed this one. - theob 05:48:49 04/01/09 (1)
      what can I say, I tried it, it does sound better. thank you.
      - Hope others wil try it too ! RE: add /nopae to boot.ini. Somehow I missed this one. - hfavandepas 06:01:34 04/01/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: better or worse SQ ? RE: add /nopae to boot.ini. Somehow I missed this one. posted by theob on April 01, 2009 at 05:48:49
        
        Hi Theo,
        
        Thank you for trying and your feedback.
        
        I hope others wil try it too and give there feedback on this kernel optimasation.
        
        Thankx
        ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible? - DBB 08:44:40 03/30/09 (14)
I am considering building a cMP system, but am hesitant to do just a dedicated system. Is it possible and advisable to do a dual boot system using XP and Vista (or Windows 7)? Do the bios adjustments or something else make this impossible? If so what mother board and processor would you recommend? Could a mini-itx work? Thanks.
- Thanks to seger, Ryelands, and cics . . . - DBB 14:48:05 03/31/09 (3)
  I am in the category of a person with only some basic computer knowledge. While I am not afraid to experiment, it sounds to me that, at least for now, it is too daunting a project to try to get cMP2 to work smoothly with JRiver, at least for me. The link below shows my custom scheme in JRiver. If I could not use it now in cMP2 I will have to wait. As you can see, it took a lot of work to set up. I could not navigate my music very well without it.
  
  Lastly, I take it that streaming files to cMP from another computer where I would be running JRiver doesn't work or is not advisable.
  - http://www.pix01.com/gallery/FB8DEA61-C2C2-4381-A0E1-D3A38E6 (Open in New Window)
  - RE: Thanks to seger, Ryelands, and cics . . . - seger 04:05:57 04/02/09 (0)
    You are getting some good advice here - now this compromise occurred to me and you might like to try it:
    
    Use JRiver in Vista without cMP in one partition so you can use wasapi playback, and set up cMP on a separate partition with XP. In the Vista system, you can set up batch files, devised by cics, to run JRiver and shut down explorer at the same time automatically. I was doing this with Winamp before cMP came along, and found that the sound quality was improved, about at the same level as the "XP-mode" of cMP. I've taken the liberty of adapting the .bat files for J River and copying them as text below. You could try this on your current computer first.
    
    1. download process203 from http://www.beyondlogic.org/consulting/processutil/processutil.htm Unzip into your system directory (e.g. C:\)
    2. make a new text document in the same directory and copy the first set of instructions (below)into it. Save the file as "MC13.bat"
    3. make another new text document on your desktop and copy the second set of instructions into it. Save it as "JRiverMC13.bat"
    4. Double-clicking on the "JRiverMC13.bat" file on your desktop runs Media Center and shuts down Explorer - when you close Media Center, the desktop reappears. You can prepare your playlist in advance by opening Media Center normally, drag & drop files, close, and then run the .bat file.
    
    I just used these files on a Vista system and it worked properly. Good luck! Take this as a tiny initiation into the trials of cMP implementation!
    
    Note: the root directory (e.g. C:\) must be correct in the instructions - if your system directory is different, such as E:\ or another letter, then first edit the instructions - all instances of C: would have to change to E:
    
    You should also do as much optimization of the operating system as possible, and in particular:
    a. Detune Windows Explorer UI.
    Control Panel > Folder Options > View TAB > Uncheck as many items as you can. In Vista I would keep "Hide protected operating system files", "Remember each folders view settings", "Show drive letters", "Use Sharing Wizard"
    b. Right-click on Start > Properties > Start Menu TAB > Customize >
    Advanced TAB > Uncheck and Disable as many 'Start menu items' as you can do without - keep Run, Control Panel and My Computer, unless you have desktop shortcuts for them.
    
    MC13.bat instructions:
    
    @echo off
    rem #1 Start Media Center 13 in RealTime
    start /wait /RealTime c:\progra~1\"J River"\"Media Center 13"\"Media Center 13.exe"
    rem #2 Resume Windows, Restore affinities & priorities, and Start UI
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -r winlogon.exe
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -r smss.exe
    rem start /b /wait c:\process.exe -r hdsp32.exe
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p smss.exe AboveNormal
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p winlogon.exe High
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p system Normal
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p csrss.exe High
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p services.exe Normal
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p svchost.exe Normal
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p lsass.exe Normal
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a smss.exe 11
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a winlogon.exe 11
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a system 11
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a csrss.exe 11
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a services.exe 11
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a svchost.exe 11
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a lsass.exe 11
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a cmd.exe 11
    start /b c:\windows\explorer.exe
    exit
    
    JRiverMC13.bat instructions:
    
    @echo off
    rem #1 Kill UI
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -k explorer.exe
    rem #2 Suspend Windows
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p smss.exe Low
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p winlogon.exe Low
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a smss.exe 01
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a winlogon.exe 01
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -s smss.exe
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -s winlogon.exe
    rem start /b /wait c:\process.exe -s hdsp32.exe
    rem #3 Start Media Center 13
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a cmd.exe 01
    start /Low /min c:\MC13.bat
    rem #4 Adjust priorities, eg. High, RealTime, AboveNormal, BelowNormal, Low;
    rem # and Set Affinities
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p system Normal
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p csrss.exe Low
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p services.exe Low
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p svchost.exe Low
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p lsass.exe Low
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a system 10
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a csrss.exe 11
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a services.exe 10
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a svchost.exe 01
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a lsass.exe 01
    start /b /wait c:\process.exe -a Media Center 13.exe 11
    rem #5 Start Task Manager (remove ‘rem ’ prefix of next 2 lines) or Process Explorer
    rem start /b c:\WINDOWS\system32\taskmgr.exe
    rem start /b /wait c:\process.exe -p taskmgr.exe Normal
    rem start /b c:\progra~1\proces~1\procexp.exe /p:n
    exit
  - Cics is right - Dawnrazor 11:53:08 04/01/09 (0)
    You don't have to do it 100%.
    
    Hell, I am raving about the improvements and don't even have the granite psus in yet (they should be here today).
    
    I would do as much as you are comfy with and then maybe a bit more. If you HAVE to use Jriver then do so.
    
    It might not be a full implementation as in my case with the hardware i am running, but the whole point is to get the most out of what you have. That is what I did and well man it is a whole different system.
  - From the screen shot, you can improve SQ significantly! - cics 11:41:25 04/01/09 (0)
    cMP² is not an all or nothing proposition. In fact you can do all the hw, BIOS and windows changes without running cMP or cPlay. Nor do you need to have the exact same hw specs (dawnrazor uses completely different hw).
    
    From the screen you've provided, you have some nasties:
    1. McCafee Virus protection
    2. Windows Messenger
    3. Hires Video settings
    This is just the few things I can see. Your Lynx card is capable of delivering more. I suggest doing some of the Windows optimisations as per the documentation and test.
- RE: Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible? - seger 14:59:44 03/30/09 (3)
  My Vista partition is also a cMP setup, but mainly it's a slave to the other 2 XP partitions where I do my listening. Occasionally I check up on XXHE and wasapi players, but they lag behind. I wonder if you plan very heavy use of the non-cMP Vista system, and whether heat would become a problem, necessitating fans? If you do try it, it will be a test of the robustness of the BIOS saving/reloading functions of the motherboard - I use it a bit, but nothing like the way you would have to.
  
  P.S. If you decide to try it, install XP first, then Vista. The other way around is a minor nightmare, requiring reconstruction of boot records.
  - RE: Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible? - DBB 03:31:27 03/31/09 (2)
    I thought a dual boot would allow me to stay connected with advancements in Vista/Windows 7, like wasapi. Also if I understand cMP correctly I am stuck with a very simple interface. Since I am a classical fan with a large file library, JRiver is the only GUI I find acceptable. As far as I can tell cics does not recommend streaming to cMP from a computer with another interface. If that's correct I may have to skip it. Am I wrong about this?
    - something else... - seger 11:00:06 03/31/09 (0)
      I tried my JRiver trial on a fresh install, and I get another 30 days!
      
      Bad news: multiple-file cuesheets don't work properly. Single file (CDImage) are fine. This seemed familiar, so I looked in my notes, and found that I had recorded the same thing when I last tried JRiver. I'm not expert with JRiver, so maybe someone else can pitch in if there's a plugin or a workaround. Since cMP depends on cuesheets, you would have to decide whether this is a limitation for you. Deal-breaker for me!
    - RE: Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible? - seger 07:53:47 03/31/09 (0)
      Ryelands has given good arguments for giving cMP a try. JRiver works fine, and its wasapi playback is one of the best - I found it slightly too lush for my taste and let the trial period end. Using it in cMP, you are looking at the JRiver GUI. If you want to open tags in JRiver, within cMP, I believe you can. Or tell us, what features you find absolutely necessary.
      
      I kill cicsremote.exe when using non-cPlay players, and then have fairly good functionality. For memory playback you need to load music from the cMP library, not from within JRiver.
      
      Setting up Vista cMP is a bit different - I posted some details a while ago, and if you decide to go ahead let me know and I'll try to find the link.
- RE: Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible? - cics 11:02:46 03/30/09 (5)
  Mini-ITX would definitely work (I have one) but BIOS options are very limited. Rather go with the recommended Gigabyte mobo (GA-G31M-S2C).
  
  Seger runs a dual boot setup with Vista (and would also work with 7). If you plan to run a normal system and cMP, it would require manually setting BIOS between boots which is never a good idea.
  - RE: Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible? - DBB 03:44:21 03/31/09 (3)
    Cics, part of my goal is to continue to use the JRiver interface. As I said above, if I understand cMP correctly I am stuck with a very simple interface. Since I am a classical fan with a large file library, JRiver is the only GUI I find acceptable. As far as I can tell you do not recommend streaming to cMP from another computer with another interface either wirelessly or via an Ethernet connection. Is that right? I did see an earlier post in which you said, in response to my question, that JRiver can be used, but I later read a post(by Dawnrazor?) that said cMP must use the cPlay interface and JRiver would only be used as a player. Am I confused? If I can use JRiver without cPlay, do I lose a lot of the benefit of cMP?
    
    Edits: 03/31/09
    - RE: Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible? - Ryelands 04:51:30 03/31/09 (2)
      DBB wrote:
      
      Since I am a classical fan with a large file library, JRiver is the only GUI I find acceptable.
      
      I can't comment on the JRiver GUI but I can assure you that cPlay can be made to work pretty well with the largest of classical libraries and all the folders and sub-folders that these entail.
      
      On my cMP2 box, I have music nested up to six folders deep on a three-disk JBOD array.
      
      When an album has finished playing, you "quit" cPlay to select the next (equivalent to File > Open in a conventional player), highlight the album just played, click "Remove" then "Add", navigate to your next album and select it. Click "Select" and click again on the title and you're away.
      
      Compared to, say, Foobar, it's two or maybe three extra clicks per selected album which, if each album lasts about an hour, is scarcely onerous and well worth tolerating given the superior SQ.
      
      The chief snags with cPlay's GUI used to be:
      
      a) the need to create cue sheets but this has been elegantly overcome with aljordan's "Recursive Cuesheet Creator" which now (as of this morning) works a treat with very large libraries;
      
      b) the lack of a playlist facility. As I do not use playlists, this doesn't bother me but I seem to recall an inmate posting a method of creating them;
      
      c) its ability to work with only one (small) display size. This is slightly irritating but will (hopefully . . .) change in the future.
      
      In short, I think cPlay's GUI is quite a lot better than it's sometimes made out to be even though it was designed for different listening habits to mine (and, I suspect, yours).
      
      So, while there's nothing to stop you using JRiver in a cMP box, by the same token having a large classical library does not stop you giving cPlay a shot either, especially as changing from one to the other is no big deal.
      
      Hope that helps,
      
      Dave
      - RE: Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible? - DBB 06:00:35 03/31/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible? posted by Ryelands on March 31, 2009 at 04:51:30
        
        My scheme for classical uses more tags than most (or all?) players have except JRiver. Work, performing artists, composers etc. Some are custom. "artist" and "album" tags are not that useful to me. After months of tinkering, I have JRiver set up just the way I want it. I can't see switching at this point. Do you know if it works to use only JRiver with cMP? Hf so, how much do I give up by not using cPlay?
        
        RE: Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible? - Ryelands 07:02:44 03/31/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible? posted by DBB on March 31, 2009 at 06:00:35
        
        DBB wrote:
        I can't see switching at this point. Do you know if it works to use only JRiver with cMP? If so, how much do I give up by not using cPlay?
        If you install cMP, you will see in its program folder a file called cicsMemoryPlayer.pth. If you edit the second line of that file to point to the .exe of your chosen player, then cMP should launch it in preference to cPlay. That's all you need to do though, of course, there is always more on the ground than on the map. (It is known to work for Foobar.)
        It is not necessary to perform all, or even any, of the optimisations recommended for a full cMP2 system to test whether cMP will drive your JRiver player.
        Why not just install cMP into a computer on which you have JRiver installed, edit the *.pth file and try it? If it works (as I'm pretty sure it will), go on to perform as many or as few of the recommended optimisations as you wish.
        JRiver is held in high regard by many and it would be rash to say if it will sound better than, poorer than or merely different to cPlay without a comparative trial. Give it a whirl.
        The points I was trying to make were that a large classical library is not, in and of itself, an impediment to using cPlay (as implied) and that if all you want to do is to pick an album and, well, play it, it's fine.
        If, for whatever reason, you use extensive bespoke tagging, I accept that that's a different matter.
        Looking forward to hearing how you get on,
        Dave
        
        Edits: 03/31/09
  - RE: Is a dual boot system for both for both cMP and Vista possible? - Ryelands 12:38:33 03/30/09 (0)
    cics wrote:
    
    If you plan to run a normal system and cMP, it would require manually setting BIOS between boots which is never a good idea.
    
    True, but given the Gigabyte motherboard's useful ability to store and quickly load different BIOS configurations, it would be viable at least as a trial if the longer-term intent was to acquire a dedicated machine.
    
    Of course, you would need to remember to go into the BIOS every time you reset to change "mode". The system would also be sub-optimal for cMP2 with more memory than it needs and so on - but it would IMHO be better than not doing it at all.
    
    Dave
Source of Artist in cMP display. - sondale 17:16:23 03/28/09 (2)
cics - I am trying to change the Artist / Album artist in my WAV files and I was wondering from where does cMP picks up the Artist column is it in the mp3 tags or Performer within the CUE file?
- Artist = PERFORMER as in header and not in TRACK details. nt - cics 10:35:53 03/29/09 (1)
  .
  - RE: Artist = PERFORMER as in header and not in TRACK details. nt - sondale 01:59:52 03/30/09 (0)
    Thanks, I am now editing all my Cue files as when I convert the FLAC files to WAV I got the naming the wrong way round - and I deleted the FLAC files.
Juli@ PSU highlights - sonics 07:34:56 03/28/09 (25)
Hi,
i found a solution to go directly into the juliboard with 3,3 Volt, which is the only needed tension for the digital section.
On the opposite side from the outpust there is an voltage regulator U1 from 5 to 3.3 volt, who can be unsoldered and we are able to feed 3,3 Volt ( four 6 volt batteries parallel via a thel regulator to 3,3 volt)to the board as You can see on the photo.
Sounds phantastic and is a real big step.
More depht, information and dynamics without any increase of harshness.
Highly recommended.
bye
alfred

my current stuff;
CMP/Cplay, PC with separated PSU for P4, P24, HD and Fans (Batteries for P4)
Julia I2S to buffalo( batterie PSU) to Zapfilter and to Tripath 2021 (batterie PSU)
- RE: Juli@ PSU highlights - rickchan.bw@gmail.com 13:38:16 10/10/09 (0)
  hi alfred, i have been looking at your enternal power mods for sometime..
  Until today i started to mod like u. i cut all the +5v feeds from the juli@
  card then solder 5v to DVCC1. When i turn on the external power of juli@ it
  has power light from the optical jack, however when turning on my pc
  optical lights goes off until booted in window it couldnt detect my sound
  card.
  is my external power supply ground have to connect to my computer psu
  ground together? then only it will work?
  is the +5V ground is separated with the 3.3v ones? tats y it cant work?
- RE: Juli@ PSU highlights - GStew 20:10:23 04/11/09 (0)
  I've got my linear supply for powering the Juli@ separately completed and tested out today (see attached picture) and was looking at an alternative way to feed the voltages into the Juli@, by lifting the input pins on each of the regulators and feeding the appropriate voltage to each. My goal was to power the Juli@ separately without having to cut the voltage finger connections... with the revised caps, it doesn't fit into the computer on my header board anymore, so I can't just cut the connections on the header board.
  But what I found made me think that won't work... and it's also something to know for those who want to power the Juli@ separately when using only it's digital card. Poking around, I confirmed that the +-12v only shows up at the inputs to the appropriate regulator chips (U11, U13, U10) and the 3.3v is only provided by the output of U1, BUT I found the 5v coming from the motorboard going to several chips other than the U1 regulator... specifically U18 (the DAC) on the analog board and U2 and U8 on the digital board.
  So there is likely another SQ improvement available (for both those using the Juli@ just as a digital board and those using the whole card) by taking Alfred's mod to another level by cutting the 5v PCI connector feeders and adding another +5v regulator feeding into the DVCC1 point.
  And I'm back to cutting the 10 connections on the Juli@ so I can feed it from this separate PS. :(
  Greg in Mississippi
  
  P.S. I have very high hopes for this PS. It's a tweak-ish supply... no magnetic hardware, MSR860 diodes, Jensen 4-pole caps, Dexa regulators for the +-12v, 5v, & 3.3v, and minimal wiring.
  We'll see if I get time to try it on the Juli@ tomorrow.
  
  Edits: 04/11/09
- RE: Juli@ PSU highlights - clare t 11:41:28 04/02/09 (0)
  Hi Alfred,
  
  What cables are you using for the I2S connections? Did you DIY an I2S connector for the Juli@ or simply soldered them to the pins?
  
  Thank you!
- RE: Juli@ PSU highlights - theob 07:32:47 04/01/09 (4)
  alfred you are one of the juli@ ps modifier leaders. I applaud you on your great work. I have a 5 volt battery (rechargeable) that I formerly used on a usb extender. Question do you think if I de-soldered the 5 volt feed from the pc (on juli@ card) and hooked up this battery the U1 regulator would work to provide 3.3 volts? I used the battery for an opticis usb optical cable.
  
  Is there an english version description of your regulator. It looks very robust but I cannot read German (although my kids can).
  - RE: Juli@ PSU highlights - sonics 08:23:05 04/01/09 (3)
    hi theob,
    The optimal specs of the U1 regulator:
    MT1117-3.3, 4.3V ≤ VIN ≤ 5.5V ( Max Voltage not more than 6 Volt)
    So it works perfect in this reach,
    For the reason of low ESR i prefer 3 to 4 batteries parallel to reach the max. SQ , but one works too.
    be careful , the MT1117 is very sensitive for to much heat during soldering
    
    Edits: 04/01/09
    - RE: Juli@ PSU highlights - theob 08:31:51 04/01/09 (2)
      ok good advice I am not an expert solderer so I'll hold off untill I can find a good solderer. Should I unsolder the ground to run to the battery?
      - RE: Juli@ PSU highlights - sonics 08:38:47 04/01/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Juli@ PSU highlights posted by theob on April 01, 2009 at 08:31:51
        
        You can solder the ground of the batterie direct to the ground pin, the pin can stay on board.
        
        RE: Juli@ PSU highlights - theob 08:52:51 04/01/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Juli@ PSU highlights posted by sonics on April 01, 2009 at 08:38:47
        
        thanks
- RE: Juli@ PSU highlights - GStew 07:13:03 03/29/09 (16)
  Very nice, sir. For those using just the Juli@'s digital side, this will be a very easy way to clean up the power with a separate supply.
  
  I guess it was a very good weekend for modifying Juli@ cards... see my posts below. I'm still using the Juli@'s analog outputs, so my mods covered both the analog card and the digital card. I also got some nice improvements with my mods... next for me is doing something similar to what you did, powering it with supplies that are separate from the computer's supplies and later, upgrading the regulators.
  
  And I'll also be implementing a separate I2S-connected DAC, inspired by your post awhile back about connecting the Buffalo DAC to the Juli@.
  
  Thanks for sharing and for the inspiration!
  
  Greg in Mississippi
  - How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB - cics 11:27:57 03/29/09 (15)
    I've been toying with this idea for a while and if we could take all the innovation from Alfred, Greg and Promethk the result could be very interesting. The idea is to plug in a new PCB onto the digital section with:
    1. high quality caps providing cleaner power to Juli@'s digital section using power header pins
    2. would need to look into 3.3V clean power as per Alfred
    3. new DAC chips would be TI (Burr Brown) PCM1794A (hw control) which offers 132db SNR @ 9V output. this chip can be configured to have its internal reconstruction filter disabled (i.e. use external filter)!
    4. output stage using miniature tubes
    5. faraday cage?
    6. Neutric or Hicon XLR connectors
    7. card would use 2 PC slots
    8. DAC's 5V analogue input and 3.3V digital input is highly refined (also cater for battery supply)
    9. jumpers to set output voltage (9, 4.5 or 2=default) and ground connection
    Juli@'s I2S interface is exceptionally good within a cMP² platform. The aim would be to have an analogue add-on PCB with performance rivaling "cost no object" DACs. (Of course at minimal cost including velvet packaging and white gloves).
    - RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB - GStew 20:18:25 03/31/09 (8)
      cics,
      This idea of you has me very intrigued. I think there are several ways we could go on this...
      1. Develop a new board using the PCM1794A that you mentioned above. I do like it's digital filter disable mode, but it does only do 24-bit.
      2. Develop a new board using the AK4399 that I'm getting. It is another of the current 'superchips, most notably used in Alex Peychev's $30,000 NWO 3.0-GO modified Esoteric UW-1. It also has the digital filter disable mode, but it is a 32-bit chip... I'm not sure how much that matters, but it's good from a numbers perspective.
      3. Develop an easy-to-implement mod of the ESS Sabre DAC, which has gotten a LOT of favorable press. What makes this an attractive option is the availability of Twisted Pear's ready-to-implement boards including an output IV stage. If the pricing for the new boards will be the similar to the last generation, this may be the most expensive of these options... but take the least development. This newest one is 32-bit AND also has the filter disable mode, so it remains a top contender. One good thing... the supporting I/V stage and power supply boards seem very highly developed.
      4. A budget upgrade based on modifying the Juli@'s analog out, similar to what I did this last weekend. I don't yet know how good it will be, it hasn't fully run-in yet, but it's sounding very nice at three days in. Bass is especially well defined and strong, a significant jump over the stock card.
      In the new-DAC world, I especially like the idea of dis-engaging the on-chip digital filter... I suspect there are significant gains available just doing that.
      I am also expecting that it will be important to provide a separate power supply for best sound. As long as nothing goes too awry this next weekend, I hope to try that with the Juli@. I do have all the parts in-house now and started laying out the raw supplies last night. 4-6 hours of work on Saturday and it should be running. I'm also very interested to see how much of a difference it really makes in my setup where I start with the linear/hybrid supplies powering the computer. I still expect a significant bump, but it may not be as much as when separate digital-interface and DAC supplies are added to a computer SMPS-based setup.
      Here's my version of your wish-list:
      1. Phase I power mod to add additional filtering caps on the Juli@ digital board and on the DAC option chosen. Phase II power mods going to separate supplies for the digital And , either a linear or battery.
      2. Phase I DAC mod to upgrade the Juli@. Phase I to implement one of the three DACs above (or any new contenders that emerge).
      3. Output stage may have several options to choose from. The Twisted Pear setups offer nice turn-key stages. I do like the idea of a nice tube stage. I also like the idea of your multiple output voltage choices.
      4. Location inside the computer case to minimize the I2S line length. Packaging to minimize RF and EMI interference would be important, such as your faraday cage. Mounting the I2S connections directly on the Juli@, maybe the entire DAC board, would be trick.
      5. Balanced out via Neutric or Hicon XLR connectors. Un-balanced out also available.
      If we want to investigate the PCM1794A or AK4399 options, it's probably worth getting a couple of the evaluation boards on-order.
      One thought I have is that this is more of a DIYAudio-type of thread than most of the ones I see on the Asylum (except for the Tube DIY forum here). So I've started a thread for cMP2 mods there:
      http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1788543#post1788543
      I don't know if you've seen it there, but Peter Daniel has posted a bit about his version of an AOB and later a cMP2 in the last few pages of his AudioSector-chip amp kits, dacs, chassis thread:
      http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1788548#post1788548
      It was his implementation that was half of the inspiration to go to the linear/hybrid supplies... and the other half goes to the Asylum's Ryeland for his linear P4 power supply.
      I invite consideration of moving that thread there, I suspect that the DIY nature of that board will get us more input than we'll see here.
      My recent 2 cents.
      Greg in Mississippi
      
      Edits: 04/01/09
      - RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB - Bertel 22:54:45 03/31/09 (7)
        
        In Reply to: RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB posted by GStew on March 31, 2009 at 20:18:25
        
        Greg,
        
        interesting thoughts!
        
        Just a brief correcting remark on the ESS Sabre for now: The current version is the ESS Sabre32, it is 32 bit (not 24) and the deemphasis and FIR filters both can be disabled.
        
        Regards
        Robert
        
        RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB - GStew 18:27:10 04/01/09 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB posted by Bertel on March 31, 2009 at 22:54:45
        
        Robert,
        
        That's good to know and I updated my post above.
        
        Honestly, if Twisted Pear had not be out of the Buffalo DAC at the time I'd decided which one to order, I'd probably have one of them now instead of waiting for the AK4399 DAC board. I don't feel bad going with the AK4399, but I liked the maturity of their design.
        
        Two questions I have for the group...
        
        One, you mention that the deemphasis is defeatable. One question I have is what happens with emphasised CDs? I happen to know (because I once made a CDP based on a CDP650 that had a demph-on LED) that a few of my CDs are emphasized. Will they play wrong. It's not like I stay awake at night worrying about this, but I am curious.
        
        Second, does anyone have any tips on programming these things. It looks like the AK4399 will need programming to set the filter bypass on... and I wouldn't be suprised if the others didn't too. I suspect that the info on how to do this is in the ESS Sabre DAC thread on DIYAudio, but I haven't taken the time to look yet.
        
        Again, thanks!
        
        Greg in Mississippi
        
        Key is to keep Juli@'s digital section that way we keep the excellent ASIO drivers - cics 08:07:07 04/02/09 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB posted by GStew on April 01, 2009 at 18:27:10
        
        Juli@'s ASIO drivers remains the best I've seen to date.
        
        New analogue board plugs onto this using I2S interface which I assume will support 24 bit DACs only (a deal breaker for 32 bit DACs). Alfred uses this interface for the Buffalo / Sabre DAC. Alfred: can you confirm 32 interface?
        
        I'm not religious about 24 or 32 bit: important factors are SNR and the ability to bypass internal reconstruction filter. My AA Prestige SE uses the PCM1792 DAC which is excellent. Both AKM and ESS Sabre are excellent 32 bit DACs and yes the Sabre would be a brilliant choice (even better than 1794) given that we can disable its filter and includes IV stage & PS refinements.
        
        So lets go with the Sabre and add RCA outs as well.
        
        Will look into Peter Daniels' work as well. DIY thread is a great start (PS - my loyalties lie with AA).
        DIY thread: new Juli@ analogue board (Open in New Window)
        
        RE: Key is to keep Juli@'s digital section that way we keep the excellent ASIO drivers - Bertel 05:17:23 04/03/09 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Key is to keep Juli@'s digital section that way we keep the excellent ASIO drivers posted by cics on April 02, 2009 at 08:07:07
        
        Regarding Juli@ i2s out and ESS Sabre32:
        
        Not sure wether Juli@ i2s out will work with ESS Sabre32 "as is" right away, will have to test. If it doesn't, this can likely be fixed by choosing a different PCM audio interface format - ESS Sabre32's default is 32-bit but can be set to 24-bit by programming the registers.
        
        Need to confirm 32 bit I2S interface and ability to disable filter - cics 10:28:54 04/03/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Key is to keep Juli@'s digital section that way we keep the excellent ASIO drivers posted by Bertel on April 03, 2009 at 05:17:23
        
        Documentation is light and so far, my readings suggest Sabre 2008 allows for disabling "Demphasis" only. Can't get any info on Sabre 2018.
        
        32 bit - Bertel 14:50:46 04/04/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Need to confirm 32 bit I2S interface and ability to disable filter posted by cics on April 03, 2009 at 10:28:54
        
        Just thinking aloud:
        
        The ESS Sabre32 has 32bit PCM audio input stream as default - would it be possible and would it make any sense to have SRC resample to 32/192...? Haven't thought about this yet, but apparently Asus Xonar soundcards can output 32bit (at least Xonar DX can, see test here: http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/Review/116715,asus-xonar-dx-pci-e.aspx) - not sure if Juli@ can.
        
        Anyone any thoughts if 32bit make any sense?
        
        cPlay outputs all audio at 32 bit resolution, giving 32/192k etc. Soundcard drops lower bits. nt - cics 23:17:32 04/04/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: 32 bit posted by Bertel on April 04, 2009 at 14:50:46
        
        .
        
        RE: Need to confirm 32 bit I2S interface and ability to disable filter - Bertel 10:47:23 04/03/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Need to confirm 32 bit I2S interface and ability to disable filter posted by cics on April 03, 2009 at 10:28:54
        
        32 bit i2s and filter disable confirmed
        
        Edits: 04/04/09
    - RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB - sonics 14:32:09 03/29/09 (2)
      The little buffalo /sabre via I2S IMHO is as good and even better than every cost no object DAC i know.
      The julia with 3,3 Volt from batteries and additional low ESR is another beast than the untweaked card, and the combination with the I2S/Buffalo
      is in this moment the easiest way for my needs.
      Why You want to do everthing in the PC?
      Is Your aim a self developed DAC board ?
      - RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB - cics 08:33:00 03/30/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB posted by sonics on March 29, 2009 at 14:32:09
        
        Three reasons:
        
        offers lowest DAC cost (say ±$200 without skimping on velvet and gloves). there's no need for XOs, casing, PSU, etc as Juli@ provides I2S interface and power can be sourced from main psu (with extra filtering on DAC's PCB) or preferably a battery option
        
        can fully exploit cMP² capabilities like no reconstruction filter in DAC
        
        elegance of having just one box
        
        The buffalo / sabre DAC is a superb choice.
        
        RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB - sonics 09:40:50 03/30/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB posted by cics on March 30, 2009 at 08:33:00
        
        to the first point:
        if You put it in the same case and You want best quality for Julia and DAC you need a battery PS and my experience shows ,that You need at least 3 or 4 sealed batteries to provide lowESR and they don't fit in the case.
        
        The I2s is a little problem because quality is decreasing quickly after 20cm length of the cables. My buffalo is direct behind the PC case , but it is not difficult to integrate it in the same case if you want.
        
        Seconfd point i cannot comment; sounds interesting.
        Elegance of one case : ok for the WAF, but for DIY-people free-wired open elektronics provide headroom for new developments .
    - RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB - GStew 11:44:29 03/29/09 (1)
      P.S. cics, I have something else I wanted to discuss with you. Please email me via my profile.
      
      Thanks!
      
      Greg in Mississippi
      - thanks for letting me know about email problem - am trying to fix it. nt - cics 10:56:12 03/30/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB posted by GStew on March 29, 2009 at 11:44:29
        
        .
    - RE: How about a different approach: replace Juli@'s analogue PCB - GStew 11:41:18 03/29/09 (0)
      LOL on the velvet packaging & white gloves.
      I'll take a look at that DAC later tonight. I will also take another look at the AK4399 that's used in the add-on DAC card I've got ordered to see if it also has the option to disable the internal filtering... that'd be trick!
      My gut feel from adding linear supplies to my setup is that disconnecting the card from the computer's supplies will make a larger difference than anything else we can do. Alfred's comments also suggest this.
      Also, given the output voltages available, a tube output stage may not be needed.
      Thanks for getting the wheels turning on this.
      Greg in Mississippi
      
      Edits: 03/31/09
Changing drive letters so cues work - Dawnrazor 13:04:28 03/27/09 (14)
I am digging my cmp2,

But the cues were messed up. So I popped the drive and used alan Jordan;s cue program. I knew I had to get the drive letter of this drive to be the same on the 2nd computer as on the cmp2 rig which for some reason is "g".

The problem was that that computer let me pick letters AFTER "g". I selected "h" and proceeded figuring that it would be possible to change the letter on the cmp2 rig to match.

But I can't. I restarted a few services that I thought might have something to do with it, but no go.

What can I do to fix this?

Or is there a program that can just make them not have an address contingent on a file path. Most of the cues I have are like that and work as long as the files are in the same folder. It should be illegal to put in exact addresses!
- Solved it kind of - Dawnrazor 15:23:57 03/28/09 (0)
  Ok, I just reverted to the original cues and .wav files and lost the editing I had done. Not a huge deal as about 70% was missing track names anyhow.
  
  But who cares, it all sounds so good...and I have a ways to go on the hardware side too :)
- IS THIS THE PROBLEM? - Dawnrazor 21:08:36 03/27/09 (0)
  I just saw this:
  
  Open architecture. cMP allows for any player to be used: Foobar2000, XXHighEnd, Winamp… player just needs to handle .cue files like foobar2000 (otherwise play entire .wav). Any ripper software can be used (as long as it conforms to .cue single file standard – like those created by EAC). Additional flexibility is provided, for example use cMP to drive your HTPC playing any movie from any genre… (a .cue file for each .iso file is needed).
  
  The cues I am having trouble with are the ones that reference multiple files and not one big file. Is that what is being talked about here and the reason I am having trouble even though cplay will play the files?
- RE: Changing drive letters so cues work - seger 14:44:36 03/27/09 (11)
  G: must already be assigned to a drive. If it's a system drive you don't want to be changing the drive letter! If your music files on your cmp machine are stored in a separate non-system partition, it should be easy to change that drive letter. I can't see what arrangements you have, so can't give specific advice.
  
  The advantages of full address cuesheets are: 1.you can store them anywhere and they will work. 2.for Vista cMP users you have to store them on the Desktop, so full address cuesheets allow you to keep your music files elsewhere. 3.For making playlists from files that are in separate folders.
  
  The disadvantage is that if you move the files after making the cuesheet, you have to edit the address.
  
  Other ways to make cuesheets that don't give full addresses:
  For wav files: put your CD into EAC and make a multi-file cuesheet, without re-ripping - no editing will be required. Or make a cuesheet with foobar cuesheet creator - you will have to add genre, performer, title for the album, and performer and title for each track - that's a lot of editing!
  For flac (or other extensions): Use foobar - if your tags are decent, no editing will be required, except for "various artist" or mixed genre albums, which you will have to edit Performer or Genre afterwards, or you will get "unknown" in the cmp library.
  
  RecursiveCueCreator is incredibly fast, but you have to edit all the cuesheets to show Genre, and if your directory structure, tags and file names aren't just right, you get anomalies - so it's not perfect.
  
  I have various shortcuts for manual editing, pretty idiosyncratic, and everyone has to work out their own methods for their own needs - it can be a bit of a mission!
  - RE: Changing drive letters so cues work - Dawnrazor 15:30:03 03/27/09 (10)
    Hey Seger,
    
    Here is some more info.
    
    The drive in question has the OS in a separate partition..."C"
    
    "G" is another partition on the same drive and it just has the music files on it.
    
    Drive g comes up as drive H in my other pc and I can't change it to anything before that, so I could't make it G on the other pc.
    
    On the cmp2 rig the option to change the disk letter jsut doesn;t work. Is there a certain service I need running.
    
    I can't use eac I dont think since the files don't derive from the originals. They are copies of the originals but were burned using yamahas AMQ that changes the pits so eac doesn't recognize the disk anyhow. I do have the originals and I bet that would work, but there are a few disks that now take up 2 disks due to amq. I could give eac a try.
    
    It would work if I could just change the letter.
    
    And, FWIW I dont even have "genre" in my tags. I just use the "all" or "artist" view in cmp2.
    
    Help.
    - RE: Changing drive letters so cues work - seger 16:43:28 03/27/09 (1)
      D - I just saw your post in the other thread about having trouble with foobar cue creator - probably the reason they aren't working in cPlay/cMP is that you have to select "ANSI" code (in the drop-down at the bottom of the save cuesheet window) before you save it.
      - RE: Changing drive letters so cues work - Dawnrazor 19:17:20 03/27/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Changing drive letters so cues work posted by seger on March 27, 2009 at 16:43:28
        
        Seger,
        
        I guess I wasnt clear. I had a problem creating .wavs from .mp3s that would play in cplay.
        
        I never used foobar for cue sheets.
        
        Sorry
    - RE: Changing drive letters so cues work - seger 16:27:47 03/27/09 (7)
      In a fully optimized cMP setup, I only have to change DCOM service to Manual and start it, then right click on My Computer, select Manage, then select Disk Management, right click on the Partition in question and select change drive letter and follow that through.
      
      "Drive g comes up as drive H in my other pc" : Do you mean by this that you are moving the HDD out of the cmp computer and the music partition is labeled differently? If that's what's going on, that's to be expected - just put it back where it was, please! You don't need to move your HDD to make cuesheets.
      
      Guessing from your description of your files, RCC might make a mess of the cuesheets, and EAC may not work for many of them - same happens for a lot of my music, so don't feel too special! Just use foobar cuesheet creator and deal with the manual editing for your wav cuesheets that will be needed - slowly, over time it will come together. Keep the cuesheets in the folders with the music as you have been doing, and don't worry about the full-address cuesheets for now - you can mess with that later.
      - Closer - Dawnrazor 17:11:25 03/27/09 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Changing drive letters so cues work posted by seger on March 27, 2009 at 16:27:47
        
        Hey Seger,
        
        In a fully optimized cMP setup, I only have to change DCOM service to Manual and start it, then right click on My Computer, select Manage, then select Disk Management, right click on the Partition in question and select change drive letter and follow that through.
        
        That worked and I changed it to drive H. But here is the very weird part. The cue sheets work if I click on them in the folder view, and cplay opens and plays. BUT from CMP I get an error. FOr some reason it is ADDING to the address and extra "H:\Dawnrazor" so the address that cmp is looking at is "H:\Dawnrazor\H:\Dawnrazor...." The cuesheets address is correct in the file and I know this from looking and the fact that they play in cplay.
        
        I thought it MIGHT be because they are in different places ie the cue is in a different folder. But I tested this by moving the cue to the folder with the .wavs and while it didn't show up in cmps initial "your cues are messed up" diagnostic, it refused to play it anyhow.
        
        What is going on?
        
        "Drive g comes up as drive H in my other pc" : Do you mean by this that you are moving the HDD out of the cmp computer and the music partition is labeled differently? If that's what's going on, that's to be expected - just put it back where it was, please! You don't need to move your HDD to make cuesheets.
        
        Actually it is easier to move to another computer to do it. A. I don't have to install anymore stuff on the cmp rig, and B. the other computer is more comfortable for that kind of stuff.
        
        And the reason I am in this mess is because I was doing what you suggested and using foobar to edit my cuesheets. (OK I did that years ago so it is not your fault :)) See none of the cues had any track titles due to amq, so I was manually adding them. I only got to about 30% of the files and those are the ones that are messed up. I am guessing that foobar switched to an absolute address and the other files have eacs non-absolute address and that is why those work.
        
        Yeah, I know I am not special. Just late to the cmp2 party. Typical Dawnrazor....
        
        RE: Closer - mschneider 14:56:55 04/09/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Closer posted by Dawnrazor on March 27, 2009 at 17:11:25
        
        Dawnrazor -- I just went thru the same thing-- have rcc put the cue files within the subdirectories that the music files are in -- that should work.
        
        RE: Closer - Dawnrazor 21:53:51 04/09/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Closer posted by mschneider on April 09, 2009 at 14:56:55
        
        Hey mark,
        
        I think I figured that out but RCC would get the artist names wrong. But Alan made some updates and now I can get it to work fine I think.
        
        However, I already switched back to the old files that had one big file and a cue sheet. The reason I was trying to redo the cuesheets was because I cut some of them into individual .wavs for winamp, and took the liberty to actually title the tracks since my cue sheets never had the info.
        
        So now I have switched back, but soon will get the cut files and get it to work with RCC.
        
        Thanks for the info!
        
        RE: Closer - seger 02:24:29 03/28/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Closer posted by Dawnrazor on March 27, 2009 at 17:11:25
        
        Glad you sorted out the drive letters!
        
        If you're using full-address cuesheets with cMP, or even if you aren't but you are using cPlay, you have to tick "No" next to "RAM Load" in cMP settings. That might be the problem. Otherwise I'm scratching my head...
        
        "Actually it is easier to move to another computer to do it...the other computer is more comfortable for that kind of stuff."
        
        That's what I do - I'm at my workhorse computer in my office-cum-scrapyard where I have copies of all my audio and video files and a couple of PCs going - I do all ripping, tagging and cuesheet making here and then copy the finished products to the main music computer.
        
        I don't know about amq, but I would recommend that you make new cuesheets with foobar and do any editing needed afterwards in Notepad. Foobar doesn't give you absolute addresses, as far as I know.
        
        Here's a small but fun tip: set up a button for cuesheet creator (this is in Columns UI, Playlist View): right click anywhere on the existing buttons, select Customize, then click on Add button, then Change button, click "Context menu items" in the Command group box, click on "Current playlist selection" in the Item group box, then go down and highlight "Utils/save as cuesheet", click OK. Now to the right of the "Display:" line select "Text" in the dropdown, tick the "Use custom text" box and type "CUE" in the box to the right, click OK. Now you have a "CUE" button! I've made a few other useful buttons this way as well.
        
        RE: Closer - Dawnrazor 21:50:18 04/09/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Closer posted by seger on March 28, 2009 at 02:24:29
        
        Hey Segers,
        
        Don't know how I missed this. Anyhow, on the ram load option in cmp, I have it selected, but AM using cplay. It works fine.
        
        RE: Closer - seger 03:11:28 04/10/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Closer posted by Dawnrazor on April 09, 2009 at 21:50:18
        
        Works, but it's not necessarily the best way to use cPlay. Why ask cMP to load to RAM when cPlay itself is doing it for you in a more sophisticated way? cMP will load all at once at the beginnng (if you have sufficient memory), but cPlay doesn't - it gets going quicker and allows you to use as little as 256MB RAM with large file sizes (wav). Most folks are reporting improvements with less RAM - I find it so, a bit more relaxed, natural sound, very immediate.
        
        You may want to use RAM load from cMP if for some reason you are already using 1GB RAM, and for memory playback you need it if you are using other media players.
        
        RE: Closer - Dawnrazor 19:54:14 04/10/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Closer posted by seger on April 10, 2009 at 03:11:28
        
        Thanks Segers,
        
        I had no idea it worked like that. Guess i just saw the option and thought it was a good idea. I changed it but havent had a chance to listen yet.
        
        Thanks.
External 24 BIT/192KHz DAC - sozeh 20:28:49 03/25/09 (0)
** Posted on a wrong thread. cics, in his kind answer below, advised me
** to post it here.
I know almost nothing about computers. I'm on the way of building myself a PC transport following cics' instructions and, in the process, trying to minimize blunders caused by my ignorance.
I have an EXTERNAL [24 BIT/192KHz] DAC/Preamp in my stereo set up. It has SPDIF inputs, optical and coaxial; no RCA inputs.
I couldn't find SPDIF outputs on the motherboards cics recommends.
Is there a micro ATX, VIA based, low cost, low power consuption motherboard, running cool, with SPDIF outputs which could meet cics' demands?
Prior to that: is a (PC motherboard) SPDIF output able to send its signal to my DAC so that the DAC processes that signal and feeds 24 BIT/192KHz to the Amp? In other words: do I run the risk of finding a bottleneck to 24/192 playback when using SPDIF outputs?
By the way: what kind of output(s) have the motherboards cics recommends(when using them with external DAC)? RCAs or 6.3 / 3.5mm for stereo jacks?
Thanks in advance for helping me and I apologize if my doubts cause derision.

~ ~ ~
Re your questions (Posted by cics):
P4M900 VIA mobo does not offer digital out (strangely, P4M890 does via mobo header but is limited to 48k). These mobos have been updated to latest Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2C or GA-G31M-S2L which does not offer digital out. Instead, you need to install a soundcard - ESI's Juli@ is a good start and is capable of 24/192k SPDIF out via RCA.
Minlogon: Segers method help - Dawnrazor 12:28:59 03/25/09 (23)
I just did this and have a blue screen. I followed the steps exactly. Anyhow, I pulled the hdd and swapped the winlog.exe.bak and winlog.exe (actually minlog) and renamed.

The system booted fine.

I think the registry changes aren't being made. XPlite shows that WFP is disabled this is with xp2 and the reg file was correct and saved to .reg. I ran it and it asked me if I wanted to save the changes to the registry, etc.

But in the registry I dont see an option that says "config". Is that what it would show if it was implemented?

HOw can I get the registry to change. I am pretty sure the files are right at least they are the right size.

Also just in case this is not the gigabyte mobo if it makes a difference this is an asus.

Help!
- P.S. - seger 13:15:48 03/25/09 (16)
  your situation illustrates why it is good to have an extra system partition - you can get into the other system to repair mistakes, without the hassle of removing drives. It's even possible to edit the registry of the other system!
  - RE: P.S. - Dawnrazor 17:37:04 03/25/09 (1)
    Yeah. If I had to do this over again, I would probably have at least 2 if not more partitions. I am thinking one with a clean install, one after say autoruns and before minlog, and one for minlog. That way it would be easy to listen to the differences of the different steps and be ready to rebuild if needed. And silence the dbt people :)
    - RE: P.S. - seger 02:34:26 03/26/09 (0)
      On my main system I have 4 partitions on one HDD - 3 systems and one for music, etc. I use one for cPlay/cMP, one for other players/cMP - both are left in cMP mode. The other system is left at its desktop for general chores - e.g. transferring in new files, and for making playlist cuesheets which I then play in one of the other systems after a reboot. It's interesting to compare to listen for changes, as you say, and also to compare different players, asio vs. ks, different drivers, etc. But only to satisfy myself - not to convince anyone, except maybe to try for themselves.
  - How to edit registry to access disk manager - riboge 13:45:19 03/25/09 (13)
    I have a dual boot setup as you recommend. I cannot access Computer Management from my cMP partition with minlogon (though I thought I had been able to do so in the past), so I can't get to services to turn any back on so I can access disk manager. Is there a way this can be done via editing the registry (or some other way) from the other partition?
    - Fixed! )new question resulting - riboge 09:53:50 03/26/09 (4)
      DCOM was on 3. Edit to 2 did the trick. Logical Disk manager was on correct setting. Thanks seger and theob.
      
      The underlying corruption has to do with adding a second hdd which can be chosen to boot on instead of the first hdd. I have two hdds instead of two partitions on one hdd. The cMP was on C:, but when the other hdd was added and booted on, it named itself C: and the cMP disk boot partition became F:. Its registry, however, retains many settings with C: addresses. I have found a program called RegCure which found all these and can "fix" them, which may mean simply deleting them. Anyone have an opinion about whether this would be okay to do--no gaurantees expected?
      - RE: Fixed! )new question resulting - riboge 08:10:58 03/27/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Fixed! )new question resulting posted by riboge on March 26, 2009 at 09:53:50
        
        That was not my question. I already have all the cuesheets using F: and cMP2 runs fine. I am wondering about getting rid of all the remaining listings in the registry that refer to C. Some of these were created when installing xp pro. It would seem they must now not be integral to current operation with the drive called F, but I am still leery of eliminating them and so ask others opinion on this.
      - RE: Fixed! )new question resulting - seger 03:41:08 03/27/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Fixed! )new question resulting posted by riboge on March 26, 2009 at 09:53:50
        
        In cicsmemoryplayer.pth simply edit the drive letters to F: for each path.
      - RE: Fixed! )new question resulting - theob 10:18:28 03/26/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Fixed! )new question resulting posted by riboge on March 26, 2009 at 09:53:50
        
        glad it worked for, it was (I think) seger's idea though. But let me ask you this I added a 2nd hdd onto which I reloaded windows and all the cmp/cplay stuff through minlogon. I simply disconnected the 1st hdd which also has the same stuff on it. If I connect the old one I want to go in and delete the os stuff and just use it for music. I assume if I hook it back up it'll be ok and not confuse the pc. Am I correct?
        
        RE: Fixed! )new question resulting - riboge 10:38:25 03/26/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Fixed! )new question resulting posted by theob on March 26, 2009 at 10:18:28
        
        I am far from sure, but it seems to me if you boot only from the disk you want to keep the system on you should be okay. It wants to call whatever drive it boots from "C:" so if that's what it already is then it should stay that way.
    - RE: How to edit registry to access disk manager - seger 14:27:30 03/25/09 (6)
      But you can get into your cMP system, so shouldn't need to do remote registry editing. Probably (guessing here) you inadvertently disabled Logical disk manager Service - leave it on manual, stopped, and it will come into play when called. Start DCOM and you can get to Disk management.
      In general, leave Services on Manual unless they start themselves when you reboot or will not stop without disabling.
      - RE: How to edit registry to access disk manager - riboge 14:37:44 03/25/09 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: How to edit registry to access disk manager posted by seger on March 25, 2009 at 14:27:30
        
        I cannot access Services, as I said, so I can't do what you suggest. That is the problem. I have tried every way I can think of but still cannot get to Services to make changes.
        
        RE: How to edit registry to access disk manager - seger 14:54:41 03/25/09 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: How to edit registry to access disk manager posted by riboge on March 25, 2009 at 14:37:44
        
        Maybe corruption in Windows. services.msc file is in system32 folder. If you can't open it with Run > services.msc, you could go to system32 folder and see if it runs from there.
        
        RE: How to edit registry to access disk manager - riboge 15:16:20 03/25/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: How to edit registry to access disk manager posted by seger on March 25, 2009 at 14:54:41
        
        It won't run either of those ways.
        
        RE: How to edit registry to access disk manager - seger 15:40:05 03/25/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: How to edit registry to access disk manager posted by riboge on March 25, 2009 at 15:16:20
        
        How inconvenient! You don't want to go to registry every time to alter services. Try to find an expert solution to opening services.msc via google. In the meantime, if you want to start DCOM this once, go to HKLM\CurrentControlSet\Services\DcomLaunch and set the Start line value to 2
        This should change it to Automatic and it starts itself on reboot - but this is at your own risk, as you clearly have a system problem. I would try things for a while, but be prepared for a system rebuild as the final solution.
        
        RE: How to edit registry to access disk manager - riboge 16:05:14 03/25/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: How to edit registry to access disk manager posted by seger on March 25, 2009 at 15:40:05
        
        Thanks. I will try this tomorrow after I let someone hear my setup, since it may be offline when I do, as you warned. I too see a reinstall in my future. It would help to know how to turn on Logical disk manager Service as well, if as theob suggested it is off.
        
        RE: How to edit registry to access disk manager - seger 02:38:26 03/26/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: How to edit registry to access disk manager posted by riboge on March 25, 2009 at 16:05:14
        
        disk manager is in same place - "dmadmin" - set it to 3 for manual, (4 is disabled)
    - RE: How to edit registry to access disk manager - theob 14:01:14 03/25/09 (0)
      try enabling Dcom in services. Worked for me
- RE: Minlogon: Segers method help - seger 13:00:14 03/25/09 (5)
  Did you check for the Config line in registry before restarting? It's good to doublecheck everything when it's your first time - like check that a new winlogon with its odd icon doesn't appear at the end of the files in system32 several seconds after renaming. If so, WFP is not disabled. Creating the registry entry can also be done manually - go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon. Right click in the right-hand pane, click on New and select DWORD, name it Config and give it the value 00000017 That's where you check for the Config line after running the .reg file you made. Just don't restart until you are very sure everything has been done correctly.
  - Great post; I'll bookmark this for later potential use. nt - theob 02:36:41 03/26/09 (0)
    .
  - THANKS!!! That was it - Dawnrazor 13:40:34 03/25/09 (3)
    The registry didnt have the change for some reason. It said it had been updated but I guess not.
    
    I made the config addition and changed the files back and viola it worked.
    
    I noticed that there were some things missing from the desktop, and the color is a bit off...from blue to green. Is that normal?
    
    Also, am I done??? Anything else to do or check at this point?
    
    It does sound better at this point. YOu guys werent kidding about winlog getting in the way of the sound.
    
    Thanks for the help!!
    - RE: THANKS!!! That was it - seger 14:04:16 03/25/09 (2)
      Settings to do over: Folder options - all settings except offline files; Mouse settings; Display settings - all except Resolution and dpi; System Properties > Performance > Settings > Visual Effects: Tick "Adjust for best performance. Also do registry: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\ Desktop - MenuShowDelay set value to 1
      Luckily you don't have to do BIOS or Device Manager changes again. You will probably want to customize the Start Menu/Taskbar (right click Start > Properties) and maybe cleanup Start Menu folders (right click Start > Explore) Quicklaunch doesn't work in minlogon.
      - RE: THANKS!!! That was it - Dawnrazor 15:00:53 03/25/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: THANKS!!! That was it posted by seger on March 25, 2009 at 14:04:16
        
        Cool.
        
        One last thing.
        
        I noticed that there are still some things that are installed that seem to be unnecessary. DO I really need the calculator for instance? Or does it not matter now?
        
        Thanks.
        
        RE: THANKS!!! That was it - seger 15:08:41 03/25/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: THANKS!!! That was it posted by Dawnrazor on March 25, 2009 at 15:00:53
        
        Depends how good you are at maths (!) Nah - doesn't matter - it's the stuff that could use the system when you aren't looking that you have to get rid of.
What happened to the documentation? - Apokalypse 03:47:22 03/25/09 (3)
It's all gone...
- RE: What happened to the documentation? - Bertel 04:25:05 03/25/09 (2)
  Hi Apo,
  
  just checked and tried the link provided in cics' starting post - the documentation IS there, but maybe you couldn't find it: Click on the small image just below "Start Slideshow", then "Open this PDF" on the next page, and voila, you'll have the 6 page cMP documentation! :-)
  
  I hope you'll find this interesting and can convince yourself to give it a try - the results will be amazing, many if not all of us here have had the chance and luck to experience this, and you'll find help and support here whenever you need it!
  
  Regards,
  Robert
  - Make sure to hit Next for "Installation Guide & User Manual" as well (18 pages). nt - cics 06:47:24 03/25/09 (1)
    .
    - RE: Make sure to hit Next for "Installation Guide & User Manual" as well (18 pages). nt - Apokalypse 14:43:22 03/25/09 (0)
      Thanks bertel and cics!
      
      It is indeed there. Oops.
      
      Look forward to implementing one of these solutions thanks.
RE: cMP can't taskkill explorer.exe - RPC server displayed as running but in fact unavailable.. - theob 04:34:44 03/25/09 (0)
Hi Robert I was able to format, partition new hdd by re-enabling Dcom in services.
Juli@ Follies... - GStew 20:44:55 03/24/09 (35)
10/10/09 Updates...
I've the following info to my Juli@ Follies post below:
1. Info about one more regulator chip on the analog card which appears to power what appear to be the mixer chips, U24 and U26.
2. Info about the balanced outputs and the unbalanced and balanced inputs.
3. Info about the use of 5v on the digital card
4. Preliminary notes on where the outputs from the DAC go.

This all was prompted by:
1. I'm modifying a Juli@'s analog balanced outputs for another inmate, so I needed info on the balanced side.
2. I suspect there are some additional gains available by upgrading that last regulator chip that provides the negative rail to the mixer chips... the positive rail for those chips are covered by U10.
3. Replacing the output muting transistors with relay-based ones is a common modification for circuits such as this, providing some sonic gains.
4. I strongly suspect if one is using the Juli@ just as an output device, there are some serious sonic gains available by bypassing the mixers and output circuitry and taking the DAC output to a simplified and more direct output stage. I have this on my queue of Juli@ mods to try.
I hope this information will be useful for others!

Ok... I haven't abused one of my Juli@'s with my soldering iron... yet. But it's just a matter of time
What I did do is spend a bit of time poking around the Juli@ and wanted to report what I found... and also gather info others have posted into one place.
What's prompting this is the imminent arrival (I hope) of an I2S-connected DAC. It's not a commercial product, but just a tweaked set of boards as used by one of the EQ modifiers. I'm hopeful that this DAC will work well driven by the Juli@ as it is based on the AK4399, a similar DAC to the AK4358 that's already used in the Juli@.
I needed to find the reset pin in the J3 header, one that I haven't found identified in previous posts on various forums in the past. So I pulled out my trusty meter and started poking around... and then wanted to confirm some of the other pins... and then find the +-12v pins... And then kept going... and this is what I found:

J3 connector signal pinout (note much of this is taken from the Head-Fi post http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/easy-i2s-juli-pci-sound-card-242285/):
J3 Pin 1 -> 1724 PSDOUT[0] ( I2S data out) -> AK4358 SDTI1 (I2S data in)
J3 Pin 5 -> 1724 PSYNC ( I2S Word Clock ) -> AK4358 LRCK (I2S Left/Right Word clock)
J3 Pin 7 -> 1724 PBCLK ( I2S bit clock out ) -> AK4358 BICK ( I2S bit clock in )
J3 Pin 9 - > Xilinx on the digital board -> AK4358 MCLK ( I2S Master Clock in )
J3 Pin 11 - > Xilinx & AK4114 on the digital board - > AK4358 PCN (Reset)

J1 connector power supply pinout (note much of this is taken from the Head-Fi post cited above and some is taken from this Asylum post http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=35497):
J1 Pins 1 & 3 -> +12v
J1 Pins 7 & 9 > -12v
J1 Pin 2 -> +5v
J1 Pin 10 -> +3.3v
J1 Pins 4, 5, 6, 8 -> grounds

PCI power supply connections (note some of this is stated in this Asylum post http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=35497 . Also, a good source for the PCI pinout is here http://pinouts.ru/Slots/PCI_pinout.shtml):
First of all, the Juli@ only uses the +5v and +-12 lines from the PCI bus. If you look carefully at the pins specified as 3.3v on the Juli@ edge connection, you'll see that the conductive fingers are not connected to the board. This simplifies hooking the Juli@ up to a separate power supply... here's the PS pins:
B1 - > -12v
A2 - > +12v
B5, A5, B6, A8, B61, A61, B62, A62 - > +5v
While there are a number of +5v pins that will need intercepting to inject the 5v from a separate power supply, it's a LOT easier than if you also had to connect up twelve +3.3v lines too!

Digital card power supply notes (note some of this is stated in this Asylum post http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=35497):
U1 regulates 5v to 3.3v, with the first pin connected to ground, the second the output, and the third to the 5v bus. C1 & C3 are input filtering capacitors and C2 is the output filtering capacitor.
Also note these comments from a poster titled 'marcello' (from a post on this forum, sorry, I didn't dig it up to cite directly):
"Upgrading digital section:
Locate a good "audiophile"clock oscillator manufacturer. There are multiple offers available on the internet, varying from LC, Audiocom, etc. In NL, Audioart is making a VERY good clock but I'm not sure if they are selling it separately. If not I can intermediate.
I will come with my own clock this summer. 12V and the lowest noise and jitter you've heard of.
Two clocks are needed, one for 22.5792MHz and 1 for 24.576MHz. Replace the existing crystals (x1 and X2)with the corresponding clock oscillators. Power these external clock oscillators by a very good linear supply, or even a lead acid battery if the required voltage is 12Vdc.
Solder a 220uF/10V SG or SH OsCon capacitor from U6, AKM's 4114 chip AVDD pin 38 to ground. Best is to do this on the underside of the board, across BC25. Negative to the solder pad nearest to the "BC25" text.
Solder a 220uF/10V SG or SH OsCon capacitor across C8; positive to the pad towards text "C9", negative to pad towards text "C8".
These measures take care of the most basic limitations of the sound quality of the Juli@ card."

Analog card digital power supply notes:
U10 regulates +12v down to 5v for the digital chips and the mixer chips on the analog card, with the same pinout as U1 above, G O I. C13 is the +12v input filter capacitor and C14 the +5v output filtering capacitor. C16, C46, C17, and C85 are local filters for this rail.

Analog card analog power supply notes
U11 regulates +12v down to +9v, with pin 1 the +12v input (the pin towards the center of the card), pin 2 the output, and the tab ground. C18 is the +12v input filter and C19 the +9v output filter.
U13 regulates -12v down to -9v. with the tab the -12v input, pin 1 the ground (the pin towards the center of the card) and pin 2 the output. C22 is the -12v input filter and C22 -9v output filter.
U14 regulates -9v down to -5v(?), with a pinout of G I O. C24 is the -9v input filter and I haven't found (although I haven't looked very hard!) an output filter. It provides -5v to the chips I believe do the mixing, U24 & U26. They get their +5 from U10.

Analog card analog input circuitry notes
U15 and U16 are the unbalanced input opamps and I believe U17, U19, U20, and U21 are the balanced, I haven't traced this section much. C29 C34, C37, and C42 are the unbalanced input coupling caps and I don't believe the balanced input has coupling caps. I suspect Q1 and Q3 are the balanced output muting transistors and D2, D3, D4, and D5 provide some protection for the unbalanced inputs, but these are just guesses. The balanced and unbalanced input circuits look to be very different from each other.

Analog card analog output circuitry notes
U22 and U23 are the unbalanced output opamps and U25 and U27 are the balanced. C70 and C73 are the unbalanced output coupling caps and C76, C79, C81, and C83 are the balanced output coupling caps. Q5 and Q6 are the unbalanced output muting transistors, while Q7, Q8, Q9, and Q10 mute the balanced outputs.

Analog card DAC output circuitry notes
Although I haven't documented the details yet, I've traced the outputs from the AK4358 DAC to two vertical rows of components on the backside of the card, the rows starting with R71 and R76. The 4 sets of outputs (R&L, +&-) are found on the side of the components away from the part identifications.

Separate Power Supply Voltage Insertion Points (note that this is inspired by and includes the information posted by Alfred in this post http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=49122 ):
DVCC1 - 5v into both digital and analog cards (Note that the 5v IS used by several chips on digital card in addition to regulator U1, such as U2 and U8. I've never tried it, but I suspect it will not work correctly if you don't supply 5v to the card in addition to the 3.3v. So if you feed it 3.3v separate from the PCI buss, either leave the 5v connections to the PCI buss or feed the card 5v separately (Note this is different than what I published before!).
Also be aware that the analog card uses both the 5v and the 3.3v, along with +12v & -12v.
P3V3D1 - 3.3v out of U1 regulator. Can be used as an insertion point for 3.3v to both the digital and analog cards by removing U1
DGND1 - Digital card ground
AGND1 & AGND2 - Analog card grounds. Use 1 if you are using the balanced outs, 2 if you are using the RCAs
P12V1 - +12v into the analog card
NVA1 - -12v into the analog card
P5VA1 - +5v out of regulator U10, which regulates from the +12v rail
PVA1 - +9v out of regulator U11, which regulates from the +12v rail
C19 - The side of this capacitor away from the center of the board is also the +9v out of regulator Ull
C23 - The side of this capacitor away from the center of the board is the -9v out of regulator U13
R29 (open pad on my Juli@) - the side of this set of resistor pads away from the 'R29' is an insertion point for the +12v
R32 (open pads on my Juli@) - the side of this set of resistor pads towards the center of the board is an insertion point for -12v

With all this information, modifying the Juli@ will be a snap.
So what do I plan to do with it?
Sorry, that'll have to wait for another night, I need to go back to work for awhile.
Greg in Mississippi

Edits: 03/30/09 03/30/09 03/31/09 03/31/09 04/01/09 04/01/09 07/08/09 10/11/09
- Late-breaking news... - GStew 16:55:18 05/11/09 (11)
  First, attached are the pictures I promised from a Juli@ I'm modifying for another inmate... came off a bit neater than the one I did for myself because it's for someone else!
  Note the Dexa regulator for the 3.3v laid down over the board to minimize the footprint.
  BUT, there's more! I'm getting ready to add a BNC connector for him to bypass the breakout connector. I spent a little time tracing the connections identified in an earlier post to their sources so I can wire it as directly as possible... and the SPDIF output terminates at the high 6-pin component labeled 'HanRun HY600652' just to the left of the breakout cable connector. Looking up HanRun's website (http://www.hanrun.com/hren/sortinfo.asp?ClassID=91), it is likely a interface transformer. Checking both the + and - SPDIF connections, NEITHER connect to the ground. The SPDIF is transformer-coupled!
  Two thoughts about this... first, a second transformer is redundant. Second, if we can find the parameters of this unit, upgrades may be possible.
  I still think that an I2S connection is going to be the best bet. But for those that are tied to SPDIF-input DACs, this news should be a bit of piece-of-mind (some decoupling is already present!) and offer a possible upgrade path!
  Greg in Mississippi
  P.S. The SPDIF input is also transformer-coupled, it's component is just to the right of the output transformer in the picture.
  P.P. S. Lifting the output pins on the transformer from the board will remove the connections from the transformer to the breakout connector from the circuit... likely another worthwhile tweak!
  
  Edits: 05/11/09
  - Direct-Connect BNC Mod.. - GStew 18:11:28 05/13/09 (0)
    Just finished testing it. It came out very nice... the sound with my Peter Daniel NOS DAC at 44.1, even through a BNC-RCA adapter, was much more tactile and impactive bypassing the breakout cable. This was the first time I was tempted to go that way instead of 192 upsampling through the Juli@! I may have to do this with one of my Juli@ cards!
    
    It also came out very neat... see attached pix.
    
    Note that the nut was scrounged from a fuse holder. You have to remove it when you put it into the computer and then put it back on... carefully because it wants to cross-thread. But do put it back on... it is a delicate connection at the board. And the washer is a rubber faucet washer.
    
    Also, if you do this, be sure the card is completely seated in the PCI connector when you mount it... because it isn't as firmly mounted to the hanger, it can go in and only be partly seated. I don't know if it will survive getting turned on that way... be aware of that.
    The BNC connector I used is available through Digikey and you can find it by searching for part number A97562-ND. To have room to solder the connections to the legs of the output transformer you have to grind a bit off the corner of the plastic base of the connector that faces the component side of the board ... you can see this in the first picture.
    You can't get more direct without hard-wiring!
    Greg in Mississippi
    
    Edits: 05/13/09 05/13/09 05/15/09 05/15/09
  - Great work! - abysstw 23:38:36 05/11/09 (9)
    Hi Greg,
    
    Just before I place my order of partsconnexion...
    
    How did you connect the Dexa Regulator to the pins on the Juli@? From your picture, I only see two connections to the Dexa (looks like GND and input to me), and one (3.3v output?) seems to be missing. Is the output connected somewhere else, or simply hidden in the picture?
    
    Thank you in advance!
    - RE: Great work! - GStew 06:41:39 05/12/09 (8)
      You can see it better in this picture... the output pin is conneected to the pad where the heatsink flange of the regulator was (same as output).
      
      The nice thing about doing it this way is that they form a nice tripod that helps support the regulator and prevent pulling up the pads.
      
      Several things to know about doing this mod:
      
      1. Replace/add the caps first and test to make sure it's ok. Then remove the two caps near the regulator before pulling the old one and putting on the new one... then put the caps back on.
      
      2. The pads are delicate. When removing the caps and regulator, use a tiny screwdriver to pry them up, but be sure that the solder is melted before moving them... it should take almost no force to lift. On each component being removed, use your soldering iron to heat the joint on one one end/leg, GENTLY lift it, then go to the next.
      
      3. The connection pins on the Dexa regulator have to be moved from one side of the board to the other to make it fit well. Plan how they need to fit make it work before putting them back in.
      
      4. Check that you are hooking up the capacitors AND the Dexa regulator with the correct polarity at least 3 times before you hook them up and at least 3 times after. YOU WILL NOT have a chance to correct it if you hook them up wrong and power it up.
      
      5. Make sure each cap and the regulator is secured so that they can't be hit and tear off the pads. For the regulator, I used two layers of original Dynamat on top of the controller chip (labeled 'ESI' and then a layer of double-stick to secure it.
      
      Let me know how else I can help
      
      Greg in Mississippi
      
      P.S. I really want to try the Paul Hynes series and shunt regulators here too... about the same package, they should fit too.
      - Input and Output capacitor sizes - abysstw 22:51:39 05/12/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Great work! posted by GStew on May 12, 2009 at 06:41:39
        
        How significantly do the capacitor sizes affect sound quality? I plan on using BG NX 1500uf/10v as input capacitors, and a spare BG N 100uf/50v for the output capacitor. Are they too big, or too small?
        
        TIA!
        
        p.s. Are you using a 180uf/20v Os-Con for the output cap? I think the Black Gates are probably STD 1000uf/16v.
        
        RE: Input and Output capacitor sizes - GStew 08:37:15 05/13/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Input and Output capacitor sizes posted by abysstw on May 12, 2009 at 22:51:39
        
        I haven't spent a lot of time listening to various capacitor combos... for these caps, I used how Peter Daniel setup his premium NOS DAC as a starting point for selecting which caps went where and roughly sizing them. I did see a couple of references to some comments he made on selecting caps... See here:
        http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=574431#post574431
        and here:
        http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=581230#post581230
        And have used those comments as some general guidance.
        I liked the sound of his DAC when I was using it with my Shigaclone CD drive and he uses parts similar to what I've seen some other modifiers use.
        To summarize the basic starting point, Peter's NOS DAC uses 1000uf Black Gate standards before the regulators, 10uf-50uf Black Gate N/NX after the regulator, 4.7uf/50v Black Gate N for coupling (unavailable now), Oscon for purely digital PSs.
        I think the parts you plan to use will be fine, the sizes are certainly in-the-ballpark and the N/NX are better than what I used.
        Later!
        Greg
        P.S. Yes, I used the 180uf/20v Oscons from the Parts Connexion and 1000uf/16v BG standards.
        
        Edits: 05/13/09
        
        RE: Input and Output capacitor sizes - abysstw 09:41:17 05/13/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Input and Output capacitor sizes posted by GStew on May 13, 2009 at 08:37:15
        
        Thank you, the information is very helpful!
        
        I find it interesting that Peter Daniel thinks more highly of the STD 1000uF than Ns of the same size for power supply applications. The combinations do seem promising, however.
        
        I might try a power supply with the 1000 STD / 50 N combo in the future, and see how it works out.
      - RE: Great work! - abysstw 08:13:55 05/12/09 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Great work! posted by GStew on May 12, 2009 at 06:41:39
        
        Thank you taking the time to explain, I think I know where to position the pin now.
        
        I'm glad that I read your instructions before proceeding any further. Though admittedly, there's still a good chance that I'll frying/breaking the Juli@, even with the additional help.
        
        I know that your time is pretty tied up, but will you consider modding the Juli@ for "another inmate" in the future?
        
        RE: Great work! - GStew 08:20:40 05/12/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Great work! posted by abysstw on May 12, 2009 at 08:13:55
        
        LOL.
        
        I can fit it in... I'm getting pretty good at it and doing it fast.
        
        Let's see how the BNC mod works first.
        
        Greg in Mississippi
        
        Really? - abysstw 09:37:22 05/12/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Great work! posted by GStew on May 12, 2009 at 08:20:40
        
        Thank you so much!
        
        By the way, have you tried using RAMDisk on your computer transport? I think I hear some subtle improvements by loading cPlay from the virtual RAM drive instead of my HDD. Might be worth trying out.
        
        haven't tried RAMDisk, waiting for SSD prices to fall (NT) - GStew 07:54:22 05/13/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Really? posted by abysstw on May 12, 2009 at 09:37:22
        
        NT
        
        I use an SSD (too used to typing HDD). Even so, placing cPlay in RAMDisk seems to subtley improve SQ. nt. - abysstw 08:12:32 05/13/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: haven't tried RAMDisk, waiting for SSD prices to fall (NT) posted by GStew on May 13, 2009 at 07:54:22
        
        .
- RE: Juli@ Follies... the epilogue - GStew 20:27:56 05/01/09 (6)
  I say the epilogue because I'm basically out of significant mods to the Juli@.
  The last thing I did this week was to remove the redundant Dexa regulators between the raw DC and the on-board Dexa regulators... so now I:
  1. come directly from the a raw +-18v supply to the on-board +-9v regulators for the output stages (this used to be fed from a +-12v regulator pair)...
  2. come directly from a raw +11v supply to an on-board +5v regulator for the DAC (this used to be fed from the same +12v regulator above)...
  3. come directly from another raw +11v supply to an off-board +5v regulator for the digital board which then feeds the on-board +3.3v regulator.
  My goal here was to reduce the number of cascaded regulators, which one of my tweak-mentors suggests will not sound as good as these regulators used solo per voltage rail. I need to go back and forth a couple of times to confirm which I think is better, but both are very good.
  At this point, the sound I'm getting is breakthrough compared to what I had at the beginning of this odessey. Detail, naturalness, impact, density, dynamics, complexity, composure when things gets loud and/or complex are all several levels above using the stock Juli@... which was no slouch itself in the linear/hybrid-powered cMP environment.
  I have a few more tricks to try at this point...
  1. Finding & cutting superfluous +-12v & +-9v links... I don't use the balanced outputs, so I could un-power those chips. Also since I'm feeding the input voltages directly into the regulators, all of the upstream on-card bus traces are now just sources for interference and noise pickup.
  2. Alternative RCA outputs, such as the WBT Next-gen's.
  3. Determining if there are transistor-switched muting circuits & disable them.
  4. Adding a fourth raw DC supply to feed the 3.3v regulator separate from the digital 5v.
  5. Battery-power, especially direct battery power for the 3.3v digital supply as suggested by Alfred.
  6. Alternative regulators, such as the Paul Hynes & Teddy Reg units.
  7. Physically shield the card within the PC environment.
  While I think these are all worthwhile avenues to pursue, I strongly suspect I have made the changes which will provide the greatest improvements... except possibly the battery power and shielding.
  So I'll continue to tweak my Juli@ as time allows, but given where I've gotten, I will start to turn my attention to other areas of possible improvement... First, I have some ideas for a custom-fabricated case that will provide better physical and electrical isolation... and second, start to look at the up-coming alternative motherboards and possibly motherboard tweaking.
  And of course, watch for SSD prices to fall.
  Any other suggestions?
  Greg in Mississippi
  P.S. I'll try to post some pictures of the seperately-powered Juli@ this weekend.
  
  Edits: 05/01/09
  - Not yet, mister ;) - abysstw 02:10:07 05/09/09 (3)
    We're still looking forward to the pictures you promised!
    - Sorry, took them last weekend, but haven't had the time to post them... - GStew 06:51:57 05/09/09 (2)
      Here they are.
      
      Hard to see much, it's all very 'busy' now.
      
      I'll be working on another Juli@'s digital board this weekend and will take pics as it's done... it'll be easier to see the add-on regulator there.
      - Crowded, yet beautiful in a disorderly way. But... - abysstw 08:37:30 05/09/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Sorry, took them last weekend, but haven't had the time to post them... posted by GStew on May 09, 2009 at 06:51:57
        
        I think it's a good idea to move the linear supplies out of the computer. I noticed an improvement in SQ after doing so.
        
        RE: Crowded, yet beautiful in a disorderly way. But... - GStew 13:40:36 05/09/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Crowded, yet beautiful in a disorderly way. But... posted by abysstw on May 09, 2009 at 08:37:30
        
        Agreed that moving them out is a good plan. But there's always that tradeoff between distance (less radiated field interference) and longer connecting cable (more cable losses & cable quality becomes more important).
        Also moving them out can reduce the amount of transformer-caused vibration that is fed back into the electronics.
        Trying to deal with all of this effectively, I'm slowly gathering ideas for a custom case. Current thoughts include:
        1. Three tiers with a butcher-block platform at the base of each tier.
        2. PS's mounted onto base of bottom tier. That tier will sit directly on the floor on either spikes or isolation feet and have no solid connection to the upper tiers.
        3. Middle tier and top tier bases will be mounted onto a carbon-fiber-based support/surround structure, basically a tube shaped to fit around the butcher block bases. The motherboard mounts on the base of the middle tier with the DAC on the top tier (may hang below to shorten I2S connections).
        4. The support/surround structure tube will fit over, but be spaced away from the bottom base and have the top two butcher block bases mounted to it. It will be multi-layer... current plan is copper shield on the inside, then damping material, with a carbon fiber exterior.
        5. Each tier will have own shielding zone, with the copper layer on the inside of the support/surround separate for each tier. Then there'll be a copper layer on the top of the base beneath the tier and another on the bottom of the base above. The top-middle-bottom shield layers will be tied together for each zone.
        6. A small mobile-type touchscreen will mount on the outside of the support/surround tube in the middle of the middle tier.
        This is an 'over the summer' project for me & I'm still tossing around ideas for it.
        Greg in Mississippi
        P.S. I should note that the GA-EG45M-UD2H motherboard is a bit deeper than the older GA-G31M-S2L, so I'll be shortening the base of the Juli@'s supply & possibly rotating it 90 degrees to make room for the new board.
        
        Edits: 05/09/09
  - RE: Juli@ Follies... the epilogue - Dawnrazor 23:12:01 05/01/09 (1)
    Hey GS,
    
    What about vibration?
    
    How about something like Jon Risch's sandbag tweak on the timing crystal or some rope caulk on the card like all those $39 toshiba dvd player mods had?
    - Good point, DR - GStew 07:07:20 05/02/09 (0)
      Sorry, I do that type of thing so automatically nowadays that I don't always mention it.
      
      I damped the crystals when I did the first mod to the Juli@'s cards... look closely at the picture below in this thread and you can see the small squares of damping materials. Then when I've replaced caps and regulators, I secure and damp them with a strip of Dynamat or 3M damping material from Michael Percy.
      
      Also I've damped the Zalman case top and sides with pieces of Dynamat Extreme and damped all the heatsinks on my add-ons supplies and regulators and the motherboard.
      
      And the Zalman sits on a damped stand on Herbie's damping feet with a collection of Herbie's damping pucks on the top.
      
      My impression of all of this was that the effect was subtle... the largest improvements came from siting of the Zalman on the damping feet and the case damping. More significant was getting the HDD on damping feet with a weight block on top of it and positioning the SATA and power cables to minimize vibrations fed back into the structure.
      
      Greg in Mississippi
      
      P.S. I've also wrapped the HDD in ERS cloth plus a swatch of the stuff on the back of the Zalman touch-screen. Again, the effects were subtle if any.
- RE: Juli@ Follies... - GStew 23:30:02 04/25/09 (3)
  Well... life happened and I didn't get the time to hookup the separate power supplies to the Juli@ until late this week.
  And I wasn't happy with it at first. No, it didn't sound bad... but I expected to be blown away and all I got was a little additional detail with a tradeoff of slightly diminished bass and dynamics. Not what I expected out of serious separate supplies. Yah, it could have been component break-in, but I doubted it. Heck, even replacing the caps on the Juli@ made a larger difference.
  But this evening, I had a thought and went with it... and it's all changed. My raw supplies were regulated to 5v/+-12v using Dexa discrete regulator boards. Then they went into the 3.3v/5v/+-9v chip regulators on the Juli@. Tonight I replaced the the 3.3v and 5v regulators on the Juli@ with additional Dexa boards. Now I'm getting the improvements in bass, detail, density, texture, and dynamics I expected at first. I guess that the combination of the high-bandwidth Dexa into the somewhat lower bandwidth chip regulators was not ideal. This cMP's sound is VERY compelling and emotive now... and I'm a very happy camper!
  And its only gonna get better as it breaks in. Woohoo!
  If I get time tomorrow, I'll replace the +-9v regs on the Juli@ that power the output opamps with two more Dexa. Could be good!
  Later this week, I'll post a report on what I did to connect up the supplies (I had a learning or two there) and post some pictures.
  Between you and me, my cMP is not very pretty... my Zalman case is now FULL with 7 separate linear supplies. I've been mulling over ideas for a custom case... I'll need to move on that if I want to do much more tweaking with this beast! It's also a poster-child example on the benefits of SMPSs... My setup takes up 3-4 times the volume, weighs 5-6 times as much, and produces 2-3 times more heat than an equivalent SMPS.
  But it sounds so good now!
  Greg in Mississippi
  P.S. The difference in sound between the modified Juli@ and having it powered by properly functioning separate supplies reminds me of an early tube-audio exprience I had a few years back. I'd I built up a phono stage that used 6DJ8 tubes and outfitted it with recent-manufacture tubes. Then I found a pair of NOS Mullard 7308s. Woah! I did not imagine it could sound that good. But the best thing here is that none of this setup will age and need to be replaced (except maybe the harddrive someday).
  
  Edits: 04/25/09 04/26/09
  - RE: Juli@ Follies... - GStew 08:48:09 04/26/09 (2)
    Sunday morning update...
    
    It was one of those 'listen until it's way-too-late and I fall asleeep' nights.
    
    The cMP with linear, linear/hybrid, and seperately-powered Juli@ is sounding very, very good.
    
    The improvement in sound quality powering the Juli@ with separate linear supplies and replacing the 3.3v & 5v regulators with high-bandwidth units is in the same magnitude as powering the motherboard with linear/hybrid supplies, perhaps even larger.
    
    Of course, one could look at this and say that I'm just getting to the same place as anyone who's using a separate DAC with their cMP. But as Alfred showed us, an I2S-connected DAC has some potential for greater performance than SPDIF.
    
    Me, I don't care what they say. I'm in listening heaven!
    
    Greg in Mississippi
    - RE: Juli@ Follies... - sonics 13:59:54 04/26/09 (1)
      Hi Greg,
      latest update of Julia PS:
      I fed the digital section without any regulator directly with LIpofer Batteries. They deliver 3,3 Volt with an inner resistance of 5mOhm-
      Sound is phantastic and shows the bad influence of any regulator.
      - RE: Juli@ Follies... - GStew 15:44:49 04/26/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Juli@ Follies... posted by sonics on April 26, 2009 at 13:59:54
        
        Alfred,
        Great update. I'm glad to hear you've made further gains.
        Personally, I'm cautious about powering things like sound cards which expect a fairly limited range of input voltages directly from batteries which go through a somewhat larger range between fully charged and near empty (easily over a volt for Li-ion and Li-Poly).
        Also, I'm not convinced of the evils of regulators, given they are done well.
        But I think the key learning here is that computer audio, just like amps, preamps, CD players, whatever, benefits from improvements to the hardware. As best as I can tell, few people are doing things like providing better power supplies for their audio computers the way we are. Personally, I am amazed at the level of improvement in sound quality that I've gained over the past 2 months with some simple and not-too-expensive upgrades.
        And of course, there are many ways to make those improvements... battery power, AC power supplies, tweaks to the SMPSs, etc. Just like tubes and solid state!
        Let's keep tweaking & finding better ways!
        Greg in Mississippi
        
        Edits: 04/26/09
- RE: Juli@ Follies... - GStew 20:57:49 04/11/09 (0)
  2nd update... first, the breakin continues, but I have a tale to tell about it.
  After the upgraded Juli@ had been running about a week, I was not happy with the sound. It was muffled and confused sounding. Not what I'd expect from a sprinkling of Black Gates. So I swapped out the modified Juli@ for my un-modified control... no joy, still sounding muffled and confused.
  Oh, I remember, a few days after tweaking the Juli@, I decided it was time to finally replace the Holco series Rs in my stepped shunt attenuater with those nude Vishay's I'd had around since last summer. Could the Vishay's be bad? No, they weren't, but when I looked at it, I saw solder joints that weren't pretty. I guess I was tired when I made those joints. So I cleaned the solder off and resoldered... and the magic was back.
  The sound of the modified Juli@ after two weeks of burn-in builds on the early strength of a competently & confidently served wealth of details (adding a lot of texture and 'dense-ness' to the sound) and adds an even quieter background, stronger dynamics, stronger deep bass, very well-defined and natural trebles, and a much-improved ability to handle complexity with aplomb.
  IF you were building a cMP setup and didn't have a separate DAC, the stock Juli@'s analog outputs by themselves are not bad after being fully burned in... and this modification takes it to a whole new level.
  Next there's powering the Juli@ from power separate from the motherboard. Danged, Alfred beat me to it for the 3.3v on the digital card, but I did get a full-house power supply built for just this purpose today (see attached picture).
  It's a tweak-ish supply... no magnetic hardware, MSR860 diodes, Jensen 4-pole caps, Dexa regulators for the +-12v, 5v, & 3.3v, and minimal wiring. With a little time-management tomorrow, I may be able to cut the PCI power fingers and wire it in.
  I'll keep you posted.
  Greg in Mississippi
  
  Edits: 04/12/09
- RE: Juli@ Follies... - GStew 13:10:20 04/06/09 (0)
  Just a quick update... life interceded and I had no soldering-iron time this weekend, so no update on a separately-powered Juli@ using both the digital and analog sides.
  
  Hopefully this coming weekend will be a bit more sane.
  
  OTOH, the breakin of the previous weekend's mods continue... I'm not hearing that the parts are fully in-song yet, still going thru that love-it/hate-it rollercoaster stage.
  
  Greg in Mississippi
- RE: Juli@ Follies... - GStew 18:13:18 04/01/09 (0)
  Quick update...
  
  First, as the parts run-in, the modified card is sounding better and better. Especially impressive last night was the bass, dynamics, improved ability to maintain composure when the sound got complex, and naturalness of the treble. I didn't do a comparison with the stock Juli@ at that time, but...
  
  Second, I did do a very quick and dirty comparison Monday night. This was mainly because I took out the modified Juli@ to change the mod a bit... I replaced the Oscons before the 3.3v regulator with 1000uf Black Gates... and replaced the 1000uf Black Gate after that regulator with an Oscon. Theoretically, this is a better configuration... and bass was improved immediately, but I didn't notice any other differences at that time.
  
  Third, inspired by Alfred's post locating an insert-point for 3.3v on the digital card, I spent some time finding and I'll be updating my Juli@ info post above with other insertion points to make adding separate supplies to the cards a bit easier.
  
  Then finally, I'm moving in the direction of adding those supplies this weekend. I have all the parts in-house now. I've been down with a cold the last couple of days, but if I feel better tomorrow evening, I'll start assembling the raw DC side of the beast.
  
  Based on Promethk's & Alfred's comments, I have very high hopes for this... although I wonder if I'll see a smaller SQ lift than others sinced I'm starting with linear & linear/hybrid supplies on the computer.
  
  Later!
  
  Greg in Mississippi
- RE: Juli@ Follies... - GStew 07:35:09 03/29/09 (4)
  Significant Juli@ abuse occurred last night.
  I implemented upgrades to all of the power supply rails included local reservoirs & upscaled parts before and after each regulator, using Black Gates on the analog card and Sanyo OsCons on the digital board.
  Note that I removed the balanced connectors to make it easier to add the resevoir caps. This is not a must, but did improve access to the connection points.
  I also replaced the output coupling caps at the Juli@'s analog outputs.
  With only a couple of hours of run-in, it sounds very good and very, very promising. The presentation is 'denser' with more texture and detail, but even with the added details, you can more clearly hear it all as a whole AND pick out individual instruments and singer. The spectral balance seems more even top-to-bottom even though I didn't sense an imbalance before. Treble details are more delicate and audible while strangly seeming less pronounced. Dynamics also increased, downward into microdynamics as much as large-scale dynamics.
  I first did the analog card, then the digital card. One interesting observation was that I think I heard larger sonic difference with the digital card upgraded than just the analog card.
  I do have an un-modified Juli@ and will do some back and forth, mix and match comparisons after the modified cards have had a chance to run-in a bit.
  Next is to setup separate linear supplies for the 5v, & +-12v supplies (the Juli@ does not connect to the computer's 3.3v line) and power the Juli@ separate from the computer supplies.
  Greg in Mississippi
  P.S. One thing that I think would make a worthwhile difference on the Juli@ analog outputs is to leave the side of the card that you aren't using not-powered. As best as I can tell without digging, both the balanced and un-balanced sides are powered all the time. I'm hoping to find some resistors that can be removed or traces that can be cut to do this.
  
  Edits: 03/29/09 03/29/09 03/29/09
  - RE: Juli@ Follies... - theob 08:24:44 03/29/09 (1)
    Would you consider doing these mods in exchange for an original juli@ card plus some $? I just cannot imagine doing that type of miniature soldering. You don't have to set a price on AA. But just curious if you would entertain doing it. If so we could settle on a price in private.
    - RE: Juli@ Follies... - GStew 08:42:46 03/29/09 (0)
      Let's take this private.
      
      I'll email you later.
      
      Greg in Mississippi
  - RE: Juli@ Follies... - Kaedrin 08:18:40 03/29/09 (1)
    Thank you for sharing sir!
    
    How large are the Sanyo OsCons used for your Juli@ mod? Are there any particular reasons (other than price and size) for using them over BG Ns on the digital board?
    
    Did you replace all the original caps on the digital board? The pictures wouldn't load in my browser for some weird reason.
    - RE: Juli@ Follies... - GStew 09:45:18 03/29/09 (0)
      If you send me your email address, I'll send you the pix.
      
      On the Oscons, I used them...
      
      1. Because I'd heard they were good for digital power supply bypassing and I hadn't used them before.
      
      2. Because this post referenced another post that recommended Oscons:
      
      http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/35892.html
      
      3. To minimize the impact on my dwindling supply of Black Gates.
      
      I used 180uf/20v Oscons that are currently on-sale at the Parts Connexion. BG N's should work as well or better.
      
      On the digital side, I replaced C1, C2, and C3, which are the caps at the input and output of the 3.3v regulator. Then I added the two caps as suggested in the post I referenced above... note that soldering the one across BC25 is a VERY delicate operation. You want to have your cap secured by double-stick tape and the leads bent to exactly where they need to be before soldering. Then using thin solder and a fine-tipped iron, make a very quick solder joint at one end of BC25, let it cool, then do the one at the other end. Otherwise you can lift and/or damage BC25.
      
      I hope this all helps!
      
      Greg in Mississippi
- Summary of Juli@ mods - cics 22:06:40 03/24/09 (3)
  I've posted this in another thread.
  - Juli@ Mods (Open in New Window)
  - RE: Summary of Juli@ mods - GStew 06:10:01 03/25/09 (2)
    Thanks sir.
    
    I'd used some of those posts as starting points for the information I posted. My hope is to take the Juli@ even farther than described in these posts... ultimately including powering it from a separate set of linear power supplies. Even though I have a separate DAC card coming, I believe that the Juli@ is capable of much better performance than what one gets with a stock card powered from the computer's busses.
    
    At a high level, Here's my roadmap...
    
    Phase I - Improve PS filtering by replacing the input and output caps on the two digital and two analog regulators.
    
    Phase II - Improve analog signal transfer by replacing the output coupling caps.
    
    Phase III - Clean up the power supply by cutting the links to the motherboard's power buses and feed the card with separate linear analog & digital supplies.
    
    Phase IV - Further improve the power by replacing the on-board chip regulators with upgraded discrete regulators.
    
    I have parts either in-house or on order to do the first two phases and hope to be able to report on them after this weekend.
    
    Greg in Mississippi
    - RE: Summary of Juli@ mods - theob 06:13:01 03/25/09 (1)
      Are you running analogue out, no exrernal dac?
      - RE: Summary of Juli@ mods - GStew 06:50:43 03/25/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Summary of Juli@ mods posted by theob on March 25, 2009 at 06:13:01
        
        Theob,
        Yes, I'm using the analog out of the Juli@. I'm actually very impressed with the SQ I'm getting, but I know it can be improved. I suspect that with better power supply bypassing and output coupling, it will rival many outboard DACs... and with separate linear supplies and upgraded regulators, it will beat most of them.
        We'll just have to see. That's one of the main reasons I got a spare Juli@ card.
        Later!
        Greg in Mississippi
        P.S. I should also say that the DAC I'm getting is just a circuit board with a seperate board for regulators. Since it will be connected via the I2S connection, which others have said is not very strong in the Juli@, I'll be locating it inside the computer case just beside the motherboard. Since it will start out with an upgraded chip in a minimalistic implementation, higher-end regulators and a separate set of power supplies, I do expect it will beat the Juli@'s internal DAC, even after modifying the Juli@'s analog circuitry.
        
        Edits: 03/25/09
Revenge of the Power Supply Follies... - GStew 19:09:07 03/24/09 (5)
I've spent the last 1 1/2 weeks working up a pair of linear supplies to replace the Granite Digital 'dirty' supplies.
I'll do a full report later, likely this weekend, but I have several learnings to pass along on this:
1. They DO make a significant difference... not as much as the linear/hybrid on the ATX-24 and a pure linear on the P4, but a close third. Lower hash, greater clarity, better dynamics.
2. Quality of these supplies is VERY important. I first did them with 'ok' caps, thinking they wouldn't be important. After two incremental upgrades to better caps, I bit the bullet and rebuilt them with full-monty audiophile-ish caps... Jensen 4-pole at the diode bridges and Black Gates at the regulator outputs. And only then did the tonality start to sound right... and it's gotten better as they break-in. I still have a hard time believing that the quality of this supply makes as much difference as it does!
3. Plugging the 'dirty' supplies into a separate AC line produces the best results, even when using linear dirty supplies AND various powerline conditioners.
4. The Granite Digital units are really pretty good, providing a 'phatter' bass, but less definition and detail top-to-bottom than good linear supplies. But the Granite Digital units do have a very listenable tonal balance and don't have any glaring bad habits.
More later!
Greg in Mississsippi

Edits: 03/24/09
- All supply is now Linear except for Pico PSU - cics 20:20:24 03/27/09 (1)
  Do you plan to replace this DC-DC converter? Pico's ripple voltage specs suggests higher ripple over better (Zalman / Antec EW) PSUs.
  - RE: All supply is now Linear except for Pico PSU - GStew 12:36:06 03/28/09 (0)
    Ultimately, that is my intention. But I don't have a clear roadmap yet.
    
    Bear with me while I think out-loud...
    
    I'm currently focusing on the D-to-A conversion... I've been using a stock Juli@ and it's analog output. While I'm getting exceptional sound already, I feel there are some significant gains to be made there. My 'Juli@ Follies' post earlier this week is my prelude to some serious modifications on that card, with the ultimate plan to power it from separate +-12v and 5v supplies AND upgrade the on-card regulators with aftermarket discrete units (likely Dexa). I also have a separate add-in I2S-connected DAC coming that I'm expecting to better anything I can achieve with upgrades to the Juli@'s DAC and analog section, but I still think tweaking the Juli@ will be useful as it will offer people an easy-to-implement alternative to outboard DACs (although without the benefit of galvanic isolation between the computer and the rest of the system).
    
    A related point is that the Juli@'s analog outputs are the only component in a cMP2 that uses the -12v supply line from the ATX-24. The Pico-PSU I damaged early in my hybrid/linear experiments only lost it's -12v output, so it still runs my cMP2 EXCEPT the Juli@'s analog output.
    
    Once I've removed the need for a -12v supply (by feeding the Juli@ with it's own supply or only using the Juli@'s digital side and using a separate DAC), I only have to add the 3.3v and 5v portions of the ATX-24 to do a fully linear supply.
    
    I've scanned, but haven't fully digested the implications of the PSU specifications. On first look, a lot of it can be creatively ignored for our purposes. That assumption will need to be tested by building the 3.3v and 5v linear supplies and seeing if they work with a potentially 'sacrificial' motherboard. I'll have to find some inexpensive ones that are similar to the current Gigabyte recommendation... I don't want to destroy a now-hard-to-find Gigabyte board developing this.
    
    After reading the PSU spec, I have a few thoughts... the 5VSB line provides a 5v supply even after the power is switched off for standby purposes, but we don't implement any standby functions in a cMP2 and I strongly suspect that it won't matter if this line is not provided. I do know that using a linear 12v supply that does not follow the PSU spec's turnon sequencing works ok for what we're doing. I would expect a well-constructed linear supply to meet the ripple, regulation, and noise specifications without any issues. The power-on sequencing specs that might be interesting to implement, but they really don't look too bad.
    
    Depending on how other aspects of my life go over the next several months (work is pretty brutal right now), this may be a late-summer project.
    
    In the meantime, the SQ gains I've gotten with the Pico-PSU-based hybrid/linear supplies have been very impressive. I now have better caps (Elna Silmic II) that I can install on my Antec supply and after I put them in (maybe in the next two weeks) I will do another listening comparision between the capacitorized-Antec and my hybrid/linear, but the initial comparisons were not a comparison... the hybrid/linear beat the Antec decisively in all areas. And the linear 'dirty' supplies have provided a nice additional boost. I can strongly recommend both of these to anyone wanting to get the highest SQ currently available out of their cMP2. And they are not dead-ends as the two linear 12v supplies will be retained when adding the 3.3v & 5v supplies
    
    At least one other inmate has done a similar setup and he may be able to add his impressions here too.
    
    As for ripple out of the Pico-PSU, I do have some caps on order to use on the output of the Pico. Of course, that's the parts order that has been the slowest to rrive, but I will report on that once I have them and can install them. BTW cics, where did you see the ripple specs of the Pico... I didn't see them in a quick look-around.
    
    I'll also report on my Juli@ mods over the next few weeks and on my dirty supply comparison trials (to try to determine what supply makes the most SQ difference).
    
    Greg in Mississippi
- RE: Revenge of the Power Supply Follies... - Bertel 01:18:49 03/25/09 (2)
  Greg,
  now that's really interesting! I see from your pic in the other thread that (since it's the 'dirty' PS) you use this to power USB and HDD with it, right? Anything else?
  Now: Apart from the USB bit, is there anywhere the power from this PS comes near the mobo / soundcard / CPU ? I have been under the impression since that this 'dirty' PS doesn't affect the 'clean' circuit and thus SQ in any way, so I try to understand and am looking for possible explanations why it in fact DOES matter. Do you (or others) already have any ideas on this...?
  I have made a contrary experience: In my setup, the only two "outside world connections" to the mobo (Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L, apart from P4 and p24 of course which I power with battery PS) are the SATA cable and the USB cable which I have modded as recommended to receive power from the Granite Digital piece. I have a "regular" mouse with a cord (no wireless) as only USB device (unplugging doesn't have any effect on SQ), 7" LCD in my Zalman case is only taking 12V power in, touch surface is not used. So all in all a rather "purist" setup. I power my SSD, the USB two-pin plus the 12V line for the LCD screen all from one Granite Digital. Now: I have tested and experienced that it doesn't make any difference in SQ, noise, interference etc. if I use the Granite, a linear PS, a very cheap wall wart - or if I unplug the Molex for LCD and USB altogether (SATA plug for SSD of course has to remain connected)! So maybe the HD is the difference between our two cases? Would really be interested to find out - there surely is another valuable learning behind this! :-)
  Cheers,
  Robert
  
  Edits: 03/25/09 03/25/09
  - RE: Revenge of the Power Supply Follies... - GStew 06:23:50 03/25/09 (1)
    That is very interesting information, Robert. In my setup, these two supplies power the LCD, the USB (for the wireless mouse and the touchscreen), and the HDD.
    One of the transformers is setup to produce ~18v which is fed to a 12v regulator which powers the LCD and the regulated 12v is fed to a 5v regulator which powers the on-board USB header that supplies the wireless mouse and touch-screen.
    The other transformer produces ~9v which is fed to a second 5v regulator and it powers the HDD.
    Because these are all plug-connected, I can try mixing and matching various combinations of the Granite Digital units with these linear supplies. I have gone back and forth between both linear 'dirty' supplies and both GD units, but I have not tried combinations of them. Possibly I can do that this weekend.
    And no, I really don't have a good explanation for why this supply makes a difference... and why the quality of the supply's components is important. I really didn't want to spend the time last week and weekend to rebuilt the supply 3 times... but it wasn't satisfactory until I finally relented and used 'audiophile' components. Your suggestion that the harddrive may be responsible is a good line for inquiry. Sorry, I won't be purchasing an SSD to try this out in the near future!
    I can also try a wired USB mouse to see if that makes any difference.
    Greg in Mississippi
    P.S. I just edited the post to add the picture... sorry, I'd intended to put it in when I first replied. It shows the inside of my cMP2 with both sets of linear supplies.
    
    Edits: 03/25/09
    - RE: Revenge of the Power Supply Follies... - Bertel 06:47:15 03/25/09 (0)
      Greg,
      thanks for giving these details!
      Absolutely, it would be great if you could find the time to do this "swapping test". I would be very interested in your findings if both of those two power rails make a difference in your setup (and in which way), or if "only" the PS for the HDD makes the difference - that would then be much in line with my results. Wired versus wireless mouse shouldn't make a difference at all - you can easily check by just unplugging the small sender or whatever you have there and see if it matters, in my case it doesn't. HDD probably is the path to follow - we'll see from your results!
      I in turn would love to do this "swapping test" myself but currently can't - on my 5V "dirty" line there's only the USB power with a mouse connected, and I haven't managed yet to power this with any external PS I tried - it only works when there is also power draw from the SSD... Strange behavior which I simply can't understand, there surely is a solution to this but I had put this back for reason of other more important things to do (battery PS that is). If you now find that choosing a "proper" power supply for HD makes a difference then I'll have to be back on it to check what your results mean for SSD... ;-)
      Cheers,
      Robert
      
      Edits: 03/25/09 03/25/09
My metallic overlay is still with me after new hdd - theob 08:36:27 03/17/09 (74)
I needed one anyway so no loss but I put it in, formatted it and there is still a metallic overlay @ 146/192; 170 host clock everything else @ cics spec.

I initially listened to 176 @ 185 host clock and it played 9 hours no trouble. Then I switched to 192 (still @ 185 host clock) and it played 4 hours no issues. So I tried lowering host clock control to 170, after several hours there it was and it vanished with a re-boot. I'm thinking I have to permanently leave my host clock a bit higher than 170, listen to lower than 192 src or get a new cpu (I think its either that or the mobo, there's nothing else to change). So what's the advice on cpu, still E7200 or is something else compatible/better?

Oh well who said pc audio was easy, sigh.
- You must remove the old HDD (and unfortunately this means a new Windows install) - cics 16:02:28 03/17/09 (73)
  On new drive, create 2 partitions: 1 for Windows @ 2.5GB and the rest for Music. Copy all your music to this new folder. Install Windows on 2.5GB partition (i.e. new c drive).
  - Finally reloaded Windows - theob 18:31:13 03/20/09 (16)
    I removed old hdd, installed new, re-installed windows, don't have all optimizations done but I have installed cmp/cplay and the new 1.05 juli@ drivers just to see if it plays and it doesn't. I get cplay diagnostic saying not enough Ram, minimum is 160 mb. I never changed ram, still have a 256 mb kingston in there.
    
    Ideas anyone?
    - Min Avail RAM must be at least 160MB - try stopping services to free up RAM. nt - cics 02:34:42 03/21/09 (15)
      .
      - Not Enough Ram Error - etiennelemay@gmail.com 13:56:10 07/03/09 (13)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Min Avail RAM must be at least 160MB - try stopping services to free up RAM. nt posted by cics on March 21, 2009 at 02:34:42
        
        Hello
        I keep getting the "Not Enough Ram Error" while trying to play files with cPlay. I just installed a 256 MB Kingston ValueRAM (had no problem with my 512MB) .
        
        I have only 2 services that are running : Plug And Play and RPC.
        There's absolutely nothing else installed on the computer.
        In the Windows Task Manager the "Available" physical memory says : 177000.
        
        I'm confused... what else can I do?
        
        Any ideas?
        
        Thanks
        
        Etienne
        
        RE: Not Enough Ram Error - GStew 09:05:45 07/04/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Not Enough Ram Error posted by etiennelemay@gmail.com on July 03, 2009 at 13:56:10
        
        Etienne,
        
        With the 256Mb stick of ValueRAM, the Bios Post screen shows 259000K available after the RAM test.
        
        Then Task Manager shows the following 10 processes:
        
        csrss.ext - 2,996 K
        explorer.exe - 7,544 K
        lsass.exe - 340 K
        services.exe - 2,096 K
        smss.exe - 256K
        svchost.exe - 1,932 K
        System - 216 K
        System Idle Process - 24 K
        taskmgr.exe - 2,560 K
        winlogon.exe - 1,528 K
        
        Under the Performance tab of Task Manager, I get the following:
        
        Physical Memory
        Total 258476
        Available 213032
        System Cache 51876
        
        If you're seeing less physical RAM than what I show at either Bios Post or in the Task Manager, and a few removals-reinsertions-reboots don't fix it, then I'd say you have faulty RAM and should get an exchange.
        
        The other thing to look at are the sizes of your 10 tasks... of course, I'm still running SP2, not SP3, so yours may not be the same as mine.
        
        I hope this all helps!
        
        Greg in Mississippi
        
        Not Enough Ram Error (Update) - etiennelemay@gmail.com 09:00:44 07/04/09 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Not Enough Ram Error posted by etiennelemay@gmail.com on July 03, 2009 at 13:56:10
        
        Hello,
        Ok I've done a little bit of research to diagnose my "not enough ram" problem.
        
        Actually, in cPlay it says that I have 158Mb available (so close!).
        
        When I look in "System Properties" only 220Mb shows up. This is probably due to the fact that were using the onboard graphic. I can also see this in the BIOS POST messages : 222MB + 34 Shared Memory. Anybody else can see this behaviour (I'm using the GA-EG45M-UD2H MoBo)?
        
        Anyways, with 220Mb there should be plenty available for cPlay. On system boot, my Windows system takes only ~25Mb (in Task Manager).
        
        I'm 100% sure there's no other process I can disable (Only 2 are running), there's no unnecessary program running in the background. I pretty sure that the burn in process will not "magically" free up 2Mb but I'm willing to try and the system is currently burning in.
        
        Are there anything else I can disable (with Autoruns maybe..?).
        My system is a dedicated cMP2 transport.
        
        Thanks again!
        
        Etienne
        
        RE: Not Enough Ram Error (Update) - GStew 09:12:38 07/04/09 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Not Enough Ram Error (Update) posted by etiennelemay@gmail.com on July 04, 2009 at 09:00:44
        
        Etienne,
        
        You say you're using the on-board graphic. Did you do the series of customizations that forces windows to use the processor for video?
        
        Let me check my GA-EG45M-UD2H that's burning in right now.
        
        Greg in Mississippi
        
        RE: Not Enough Ram Error (Update) - GStew 09:32:43 07/04/09 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Not Enough Ram Error (Update) posted by GStew on July 04, 2009 at 09:12:38
        
        Ok, on my GA-EG45M-UD2H setup, also with a 256Mb stick of ValueRAM, the Bios Post screen shows 226304K available after the RAM test.
        Then Task Manager shows the following 10 processes:
        csrss.ext - 2,356 K
        explorer.exe - 8,260 K
        lsass.exe - 384 K
        services.exe - 2,096 K
        smss.exe - 356K
        svchost.exe - 1,932 K
        System - 216 K
        System Idle Process - 24 K
        taskmgr.exe - 2,660 K
        winlogon.exe - 1,528 K
        Under the Performance tab of Task Manager, I get the following:
        Physical Memory
        Total 225516
        Available 182028
        System Cache 53224
        With this, I cannot run CPlay (b25 on this setup, I haven't upgraded it to b26 or b27 yet) outside of cMP, but it does run inside of cMP. Are you trying cPlay inside of or outside of cMP?
        Greg in Mississippi
        P.S. BTW, cPlay under cMP diagnostics show 'Play starts after RAM load (available 57Mb, system 220MB).
        
        Edits: 07/04/09
        
        RE: Not Enough Ram Error (Update) - etiennelemay@gmail.com 09:50:35 07/04/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Not Enough Ram Error (Update) posted by GStew on July 04, 2009 at 09:32:43
        
        Ok thanks,
        This looks more like my results.
        
        You have Available 182028
        And I have more like 177000
        
        I'll go into deeper comparison later today.
        
        BTW are you using BIOS rev F2 or F3?
        
        Thanks for your help.
        
        Etienne
        
        RE: Not Enough Ram Error (Update) - GStew 09:56:30 07/04/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Not Enough Ram Error (Update) posted by etiennelemay@gmail.com on July 04, 2009 at 09:50:35
        
        Etienne,
        
        You didn't say whether you couldn't get cPlay to load just under Windows or under cMP too. Which?
        
        I'll check my BIOS revision and if I get the 'shared memory' message later this afternoon... with the highly-configured BIOS settings and my poorest processor (poorest in terms of how low it can be underclocked), I have to do a BIOS reset each time I reboot this Mobo. I figured I won't be using this processor when I put it in to listen and it may work ok with one of my other processors, so I haven't tried debugging it yet. But to check these for you, I have to do a BIOS reset and then restore the configured BIOS version... and I need to do some real work before I go and do this again.
        
        More later!
        
        Greg in Mississippi
        
        RE: Not Enough Ram Error (Update) - GStew 13:05:42 07/04/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Not Enough Ram Error (Update) posted by GStew on July 04, 2009 at 09:56:30
        
        Etienne,
        
        I did a reboot of my GA-EG45M-UD2H and yes, it does also show the 32MB message and is using Bios version 3.
        
        Let us know how you're getting along with this.
        
        Later!
        
        Greg in Mississippi
        
        RE: Not Enough Ram Error (Update) - etiennelemay 21:32:03 07/04/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Not Enough Ram Error (Update) posted by GStew on July 04, 2009 at 13:05:42
        
        Greg,
        Again, thanks for your help.
        
        I compared your processes in task manager to mine and all of them were about the same size (mine were only few Ks bigger than yours (I suspect SP3 for this))... except for svchost.exe which was twice the size (mine was 3,704k).
        I'll look more into that tomorrow.
        
        By the way, I can't get cPlay to load while in cMP so I imagine I won't be able to load them via XP.
        
        I did actually found a way to make it work for now: I had to kill the ciscRemote process (3096k in Process Explorer) before loading files into cPlay. The good news with this technique is that it tells me that i'm really few MB short of being able to load correctly the files.
        
        I'm looking for the magic tweak that will free 2 MB of RAM .... or maybe a new MoBo rev. that will not lock up 34MB of "Shared Memory".
        
        Thanks
        
        Etienne
        
        RE: Not Enough Ram Error - GStew 16:54:44 07/03/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Not Enough Ram Error posted by etiennelemay@gmail.com on July 03, 2009 at 13:56:10
        
        Etienne,
        
        I get this problem if I start up the Juli@ Panel and don't close it before I start cMP.
        
        Check to see if you have any applications or processes starting up that aren't absolutely needed. Also, is this a dedicated computer with all the optimizations done, especially the driver and Windows components removals? Having too large of a Windows setup running would also cause this.
        
        Greg in Mississippi
        
        RE: Not Enough Ram Error - etiennelemay@gmail.com 21:36:50 07/03/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Not Enough Ram Error posted by GStew on July 03, 2009 at 16:54:44
        
        Thanks for the suggestion,
        It is a dedicated computer and I'm sure there's nothing unnecessary running in the background (I made sure the Juli@Pan was not running).
        I did all the optimization + removals. After the initial boot, in the Task Manager the PF usage is at 28Mb and there's only 10 processes running.
        
        I also tried rebooting a couple of times, that didin't work either....
        I'll try leaving the computer on for a couple of days for burning and see how this works...
        
        thanks
        
        Etienne
        
        RE: Not Enough Ram Error - etiennelemay@gmail.com 21:42:03 07/03/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Not Enough Ram Error posted by etiennelemay@gmail.com on July 03, 2009 at 21:36:50
        
        The only thing different I can think of is that I installed a fresh copy of WinXP SP3 instead of SP2. Are there any other optimizations for SP3 that I didin't know of?
        
        Also, a strange thing, under the "General" tab of "System Properties", it says 220MB of RAM instead of 256MB. May I have a faulty Ram stick?!?
        
        Etienne
        
        RE: Not Enough Ram Error - Dawnrazor 16:54:18 07/03/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Not Enough Ram Error posted by etiennelemay@gmail.com on July 03, 2009 at 13:56:10
        
        I THINK I remember having that. I put the stick in and it happened a couple of times and rebooting fixed it. And the weird thing is that it never did after the initial time.
        
        Very strange but that burning in recommendation might be for real.
        
        RE: Not Enough Ram Error - theob 16:48:45 07/03/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Not Enough Ram Error posted by etiennelemay@gmail.com on July 03, 2009 at 13:56:10
        
        when I got that I think I rebooted and it cleared up. try it.
      - RE: Min Avail RAM must be at least 160MB - try stopping services to free up RAM. nt - theob 03:19:49 03/21/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Min Avail RAM must be at least 160MB - try stopping services to free up RAM. nt posted by cics on March 21, 2009 at 02:34:42
        
        that did it thanks back to optimizations/auroruns/kernal/minlogon
  - Calling all computer experts (aka ryelands and seger) - theob 16:28:07 03/18/09 (55)
    So I got my hdd installed, formatted, and partitioned. I put all my music on the new hdd. I got my original windows boot cd, my mobo driver cd to put a new copy of windows into a new sector (as per cics recommendation) but I have one thing I want to try before I do that. I would like to put my os on my flash drive just to hear how good that may be sonically. Can I put an OS on a fat32 flash drive so that I can boot from it? Or do I have to reformat the fd into an NTFS drive?
    Sorry to call you guys out but you are some of our sharper computer guys.
    
    Edits: 03/18/09
    - RE: Calling all computer experts (aka ryelands and seger) - Ryelands 04:28:38 03/21/09 (54)
      Theob wrote:
      
      Calling all computer experts (aka ryelands and seger)
      
      I can't speak for seger but Ryelands is NOT , and makes no claim to be, a "computer expert". He is an ageing techie with a print production background, many years in using computers and almost as many in managing their users with a sad weakness for home-brew audio mingled with a degree of contempt for its mythology. Expert? No way.
      
      That said, I have tried booting XP off Compact Flash cards. I was trying to solve a problem with my first cMP2 build. In the end, an elusive problem turned out to be down to bad firmware on then-new-technology 300GB 2.5" HDDs so I changed the drives and moved on.
      
      I never did get XP to boot of a CF but, scouring the forums, it seems that that was due to my buying a cheap CF card. The experts urge Addonics or equivalent.
      
      Using CF as a boot device is a little bit tricky as it involves issues like HORM (Hibernate Once, Read Many). Given your position on the learning curve, I'd respectfully suggest that you first get familiar with building an OS on an HDD and tackling the issues that can arise from that.
      
      Once you're relaxed about OS installs and cMP2 builds (which our off-list correspondence suggests you still feel a little daunted by), then by all means go for exotic alternatives.
      
      Hope that helps,
      
      Dave
      - Metallic overlay still with me, yikes - theob 05:03:10 03/21/09 (53)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Calling all computer experts (aka ryelands and seger) posted by Ryelands on March 21, 2009 at 04:28:38
        
        yes your advice helped. don't sell yourself short you are very experienced in this stuff which is why I always seek you(amongst others) out. Having said that I have reloaded windows and am 80% done with windows optimizations. Need to do some registry stuff/ kernal stuff and minlogon. But you were also right about my apprehension in doing this. It was greater than the reality. So I will stick to hdd for the now and near future.
        But lo and behold I have gotten the dreaded 'metallic overlay' issue after listening for 5 minutes. I guess now the root cause identification is back to something else. Could it be the cpu or mobo? That's all that is left to change. Remember I have gone through reloading windows, new juli@ drivers (1.05 and reloading 1.04), new juli@ soundcard, new power supplies, new memory. It still goes away after reboot. I'm playing off of flashdrive now to see if that's still ok (it was before).
        I will update progress/status later.
        BTW the only other differences I may have versus other cplay/cmp-ers is that I still have the fan operating on top of my cpu. I recently got a passive cooler to install but wanted to wait until I fixed this metallic overlay thing. Also running at 96 src or 192 (music off of flash drives) seems to be ok and that apparently reduces workload on the processor. Anyway anybody think this could be an issue?
        
        Edits: 03/21/09 03/21/09
        
        RE: Metallic overlay still with me, yikes - Ryelands 05:51:06 03/21/09 (52)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Metallic overlay still with me, yikes posted by theob on March 21, 2009 at 05:03:10
        
        Theob wrote:
        
        But lo and behold, I have gotten the dreaded 'metallic overlay' issue after listening for 5 minutes
        
        As you can be reasonably confident (phew!) that you now have a clean XP install, I'm tempted to repeat my earlier suggestion that you:
        
        a) remove the Juli@ card and its drivers;
        
        b) re-enable the on-board audio and load its drivers;
        
        c) adjust cPlay to use the on-board audio and try it.
        
        As Christrine Tham noted in a different thread, modern on-board audio is rather better than many here care to admit and offers you at least a viable interim solution.
        
        If the problem goes, you can be fairly sure (though not certain) that it's Juli@-related. If it persists, then it's most likely not. It's not a major change to make but is likely to be informative.
        
        Others may have better ideas but what I am certain of it that you need to find a way of "breaking the chain" and pinning down the cause of your problem rather than throwing new PSUs, MoBos, CPUs, RAM and so on at it in the hope you strike lucky. Chances are you'll be much poorer but little wiser.
        
        Hope that helps,
        
        RE: Metallic overlay still with me, yikes - theob 06:02:20 03/21/09 (51)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Metallic overlay still with me, yikes posted by Ryelands on March 21, 2009 at 05:51:06
        
        Yes I can do this but it will have to wait until I can get a gigabyte cable to use the spdif out on the mobo (a 3 pin connector) to run to my dac. I can't really use analogue out because I don't have a preamp (oh I guess I could jury - rig an unbalanced interconnect out of my pc to my 2 amps).
        
        But that is a thing to try for sure. So to do this I just re-enable Azalia in bios)? Is that it? If so that's simple.
        
        RE: Metallic overlay still with me, yikes - Ryelands 06:18:56 03/21/09 (50)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Metallic overlay still with me, yikes posted by theob on March 21, 2009 at 06:02:20
        
        Theob wrote:
        to do this I just re-enable Azalia in bios? Is that it?
        You need to enable the Azalia in the BIOS, load its drivers and set cPlay to recognise the new circuitry. At least for the "tizzies" test, the MoBo should happily drive an amp using cPlay's volume control. Don't forget to unload all Juli@ software and reboot.
        The hardest part is likely to be getting a lead with the right plugs on each end . . .
        
        Dave
        
        Edits: 03/21/09
        
        Can't do this Dave, I would need asio4all which only does 96 src - theob 07:19:57 03/21/09 (48)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Metallic overlay still with me, yikes posted by Ryelands on March 21, 2009 at 06:18:56
        
        ...and I can run all day at 96 src now and it does not go metallic. So the test would not show me anything.
        
        Remember:
        
        I can go 192/146 all day with music off flash drive--no metallics
        I can go 176/146 for 3-4 hours with music off my hdd before metallics strike
        
        I can go 96/146 all day, music off hdd, no metallics
        
        The only differences for each of the above is ps interference and/or less cpu load. Running off fd, I presume, does not have any power spikes as cics showed in some of his tests.
        
        Could you test with another DAC? - cics 11:38:56 03/21/09 (44)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Can't do this Dave, I would need asio4all which only does 96 src posted by theob on March 21, 2009 at 07:19:57
        
        One option is to use Juli@'s analogue outs - if you do this, output 192k for best results.
        
        Would be interesting to see how it compares to your Benchmark DAC1.
        
        RE: Could you test with another DAC? - theob 12:33:09 03/21/09 (43)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Could you test with another DAC? posted by cics on March 21, 2009 at 11:38:56
        
        I guess I could but I use other sources with the DAC and they are ok.
        Also if its the dac why would it go away with reboot? Doesn't make sense.
        
        Edits: 03/21/09
        
        Just test using headphones connected to Juli@'s analogue outs - cics 00:55:38 03/22/09 (42)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Could you test with another DAC? posted by theob on March 21, 2009 at 12:33:09
        
        This is an important test - let me know what happens.
        
        I set it up and ran.... - theob 04:25:44 03/22/09 (40)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Just test using headphones connected to Juli@'s analogue outs posted by cics on March 22, 2009 at 00:55:38
        
        ...intially I got an error message ---no asio drivers in cplay---but then I noticed the card was not firmly installed in the pc. I set in snugly then ran and got nothing out of the headphones. The music files appear to be playing ok on my audio pc monitor but I hear nothing even with volume very high on cplay.
        edit: I have large jack from headphones into balanced line out from juli@ analogue section of card.
        
        Edits: 03/22/09
        
        In cPlay, select Julia@'s analogue outputs (be careful with volume). nt - cics 05:18:49 03/22/09 (39)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I set it up and ran.... posted by theob on March 22, 2009 at 04:25:44
        
        .
        
        RE: In cPlay, select Julia@'s analogue outputs (be careful with volume). nt - theob 05:25:03 03/22/09 (38)
        
        In Reply to: RE: In cPlay, select Julia@'s analogue outputs (be careful with volume). nt posted by cics on March 22, 2009 at 05:18:49
        
        ok got it to work. It sounds fine. What should I look for?
        
        RE: In cPlay, select Julia@'s analogue outputs (be careful with volume). nt - theob 06:26:04 03/22/09 (37)
        
        In Reply to: RE: In cPlay, select Julia@'s analogue outputs (be careful with volume). nt posted by theob on March 22, 2009 at 05:25:03
        
        playing for 1 hour or more @ 192-- no problem. This is certainly feasible also going through my Benchmark but rare. But if its not in the pc system where do you think it could be? In the digital cable or dac? Doesn't make sense to me if a reboot fixes it.
        
        2 hours--no problem, will check every hour now... - theob 07:26:17 03/22/09 (36)
        
        In Reply to: RE: In cPlay, select Julia@'s analogue outputs (be careful with volume). nt posted by theob on March 22, 2009 at 06:26:04
        
        ...and only report if I get an issue
        
        ok 7 hours--no problem, - theob 13:47:20 03/22/09 (35)
        
        In Reply to: RE: 2 hours--no problem, will check every hour now... posted by theob on March 22, 2009 at 07:26:17
        
        I'm not saying I found the issue but it sure seems a possibility now. I'm listening to my dac through a different digital cable---a toslink glass. I'm running 192 but I assume juli@ reduces this to 96.
        But is the theory that either my other digital cable or my dac was corrupting the signal?
        
        Edits: 03/22/09
        
        RE: ok 7 hours--no problem, - theob 14:10:06 03/22/09 (34)
        
        In Reply to: RE: ok 7 hours--no problem, posted by theob on March 22, 2009 at 13:47:20
        
        5 minutes listening to cplay @192 through toslink to my dac there it was, the dreaded metallics, and w/o rebooting I switched over to headphones---no problem through the juli@ analogue out. Once again I could not get digital out to my Benchmark to work w/o rebooting.
        What does this mean? I can't believe my Benchmark is not functioning. I'm really confused on this.
        
        Edits: 03/23/09
        
        Possible explanations for my 'metallic issue' - theob 03:15:23 03/23/09 (33)
        
        In Reply to: RE: ok 7 hours--no problem, posted by theob on March 22, 2009 at 14:10:06
        
        Following are somethoughts as to what is the root cause of my 'metallic issue'.
        1) Its pure and simple the dac (a USB Benchmark).
        Pros: I can make it go metallic through 2 digital cables while the
        analogue out of the juli@ sails along with no issues @ 192/146.
        Remember I can go metallic on the digital out of juli@(running 192/146)
        and then w/o rebooting switch over to analogue out and no issue.
        Cons: the metallics go away with reboot; use of fd for music files @
        192/146 results in no issue; other cmp/cplay users use Benchmark-- they
        have reported no issues like mine
        2) Its the juli@ drivers that get corrupted
        Pros: goes away with reboot, juli@ analogue out does not require drivers
        (its all hooked up with hardware on the card)
        Cons: Use of fd for music files ok @ 192/146
        3) If 2 is true what causes drivers to go corrupt? Could be the processor
        which could be what we used to call 'a minus 3 sigma' processor. That
        is a processor that is way on the low side of the performance spectrum.
        
        Pros: Explains why higher loaded cpu precipitates problem
        Cons: Reboot solves issue for awhile
        
        I guess my next step is to try a dac with 192 capability other than the Benchmark.
        Anybody have ideas? I don't want to buy a new dac (costly) or a new soundcard (costly to go Lynx). Buying a new cpu is not too bad $ wise but don't want to do if this not root cause.
        
        Edits: 03/23/09 03/23/09
        
        Answer is option 1 (DAC1 is causing this at 192k input and not 96k or lower) - cics 10:36:15 03/23/09 (32)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Possible explanations for my 'metallic issue' posted by theob on March 23, 2009 at 03:15:23
        
        I wanted the analogue output test to verify this: Benchmark DAC1 experiences a re-sync when selecting another track or album but this seems to cause a DSP bug (which converts 192k to 110k). When doing a reboot, DAC does a "fresh" sync. In all other cases, DSP is upsampling to 110k - only when input is 176k or 192k, downsampling occurs.
        
        FD is always "online" whilst HDD goes from idle to read state causing the system to pause hence why a resync is needed at DAC).
        
        I'm very interested in comparing DAC1 to Juli@'s analogue outputs - cics 18:01:34 03/23/09 (25)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Answer is option 1 (DAC1 is causing this at 192k input and not 96k or lower) posted by cics on March 23, 2009 at 10:36:15
        
        Can you test Juli@'s analogue outs to Amps? Either RCA or TRS (Balanced) can be used.
        
        Also see this discussion for latest BIOS & Devices setup (in your case, host freq of 160 is safe but 150 is optimum). I'll update the usual revision post in cPlay once I'm happy with stability.
        
        Listening to juli@'s analogue outputs - theob 13:59:58 03/25/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I'm very interested in comparing DAC1 to Juli@'s analogue outputs posted by cics on March 23, 2009 at 18:01:34
        
        It sounds very very good. I'm not sure how it compares to Dac1 yet, my initial impression is that its not as good. But I'll listen for awhile and make a final judgement later. Oh heck the analogue part of the card is not even broken in. The final assessment will take several days.
        Initially very very surprisingly good though.
        
        Edits: 03/26/09
        
        RE: I'm very interested in comparing DAC1 to Juli@'s analogue outputs - theob 02:34:32 03/24/09 (23)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I'm very interested in comparing DAC1 to Juli@'s analogue outputs posted by cics on March 23, 2009 at 18:01:34
        
        ok I'm going to have to run this way after I send my dac back to Benchmark. I'm going to have to get some interconnect adapters so it may take a day or so. But yes I will do it.
        
        Contacted Benchmark Media very good folks(like Elias Gwinn) - theob 07:15:38 03/24/09 (22)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I'm very interested in comparing DAC1 to Juli@'s analogue outputs posted by theob on March 24, 2009 at 02:34:32
        
        They indicate that through the spdif input the Benchmark is asynchronous and so the likely cause of my issue is not the Dac 1 losing sync. So to test that theory I've hooked up my oppo (which outputs 24/192) out of specially modded rca outs on the back panel. I bought it so I could listen to single layer sacd's.
        
        I'm currently running a 24/192 source(IRobot on Classic HDAD--one side 24/192lpcm and one side 24/96 dvd) through the Benchmark to see if I get the 'metallics'. If I get the issue all agree that its the dac. If I don't, Benchmark believes its the digital stream coming out of the juli@.
        
        When I ran the juli@ analogue outs sunday and compared to Dac 1, the Dac1 was connected via toslink to the Benchmark. But, for normal listening I usually run spdif out directly to the dac1 all the time because it sounds better that way.
        
        We'll see.
        
        At any rate Benchmark offered to bench test my dac to make sure its within spec.
        
        Running 5 consecutive hours no problem - theob 11:49:44 03/24/09 (21)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Contacted Benchmark Media very good folks(like Elias Gwinn) posted by theob on March 24, 2009 at 07:15:38
        
        I'll let it go 7 hours (which was how long I ran juli@ analogue out). But if this turns out not a problem I'm thinking it could be the cpu or mobo.
        
        Cics would you agree with this assessment?
        
        I want to understand true root cause so I can fix it.
        
        Try this test - cics 15:43:17 03/24/09 (20)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Running 5 consecutive hours no problem posted by theob on March 24, 2009 at 11:49:44
        
        Mobo and CPU are OK.
        
        You have a sequence of actions that causes the problem. This time do same but before playing next track or album (i.e. before switching from stop / pause to play), switch inputs back & forth on DAC1, e.g. Toslink and then back to BNC (assuming this is the input being used). The idea is to force the DAC1 to do a sync. Start play - do you get the problem? If yes then its the SPDIF output on Juli@ otherwise its a DAC1 issue.
        
        RE: Try this test - theob 17:58:05 03/24/09 (19)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Try this test posted by cics on March 24, 2009 at 15:43:17
        
        Let me make sure I understand what you are saying:
        
        Put cplay on pause or stop, toggle the Benchmark full cycle back to bnc. Play cplay. Ok I can do that. But why do you say that if it goes metallic its the juli@ stream, if not its the Benchmark? Don't understand that logic.
        
        update on testing - theob 04:27:08 03/25/09 (18)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Try this test posted by theob on March 24, 2009 at 17:58:05
        
        Oppo went 8 hours with no problems
        Tried recycling or toggling input switch on dac & cannot precipitate issue. But I can't understand the logic of this test. I can sometimes go anywhere from 5 -30 minutes before I get issue on normal listening. I only toggle within a 5 second interval.
        I'm noticing when I get the issue is usually right at point where I believe cplay is switching off/on to get more data from hdd (right around the 2:00 minute mark) or at the beginning of a new track.
        
        Edits: 03/25/09
        
        RE: update on testing 2 - theob 06:33:12 03/25/09 (17)
        
        In Reply to: RE: update on testing posted by theob on March 25, 2009 at 04:27:08
        
        Got further input from Benchmark
        
        However, try his test anyway, so that we may rule out the DAC1. When the metallic sound is there, try switching inputs. Try power cycling the DAC1 (remove the power cord). Try unplugging the cable from the DAC1’s digital input and then re-plugging the cable. If any of these causes the problem to go away, then the DAC1 may be the culprit. Otherwise, the problem is with the digital outputs on your card.
        
        Tried them all & it didn't make issue go away.
        
        Cics do you agree with above? Tried your test which suggests dac and Benchmark's test which suggests its the juli@ digital stream..
        
        That's a similar test - looks like spdif out of Juli@ is causing this - cics 06:43:55 03/25/09 (16)
        
        In Reply to: RE: update on testing 2 posted by theob on March 25, 2009 at 06:33:12
        
        Could be a design fault which means buying a new Juli@ won't solve it. Doing I2S out could work as this is what we tested with analogue outs & headphones.
        
        RE: That's a similar test - looks like spdif out of Juli@ is causing this - theob 02:52:56 03/26/09 (15)
        
        In Reply to: RE: That's a similar test - looks like spdif out of Juli@ is causing this posted by cics on March 25, 2009 at 06:43:55
        
        I can confirm another juli@ won't fix (tried it and got same problem). Do you know of anybody else that has this issue? Reason I ask is maybe its an interaction. Maybe a better processor will fix. When the 35 nm processors come out I'll try as long as they are compatible with the Gigabyte mobo.
        Again thanks for all your help. Even though I don't have a clean solution I do have several workarounds. Listening to juli@ analogue outs, while not fully broken, is a delight. Perhaps not as extended nor dynamic as Benchmark, juli@ analogueout is very sweet/delicate. Once broken in I will lower host clock control to 150.
        
        Edits: 03/26/09
        
        RE: That's a similar test - looks like spdif out of Juli@ is causing this - cics 20:14:09 03/27/09 (14)
        
        In Reply to: RE: That's a similar test - looks like spdif out of Juli@ is causing this posted by theob on March 26, 2009 at 02:52:56
        
        See latest in cPlay's update post for BIOS and device changes. Juli@ analogue out should improve.
        
        Question: Are you using laptop HDD (2.5") or standard desktop ones (3.5")?
        
        RE: That's a similar test - looks like spdif out of Juli@ is causing this - theob 03:09:35 03/28/09 (13)
        
        In Reply to: RE: That's a similar test - looks like spdif out of Juli@ is causing this posted by cics on March 27, 2009 at 20:14:09
        
        I have a std 3.5". what would a 2.5" do for me? btw juli@ analogue out is very good. Still not as extended (highs and lows), not as dynamic, not as big spatially (esp depth) as Benchmark Dac1. But (and a big but) juli@ analogue out is sweeter than Benchmark. I could listen either way. One particular spec that may be contributing to this: Juli@ analogue out output impedance is 100 ohms, Benchmark is 0.1 ohms.
        
        Edits: 03/28/09
        
        Re-test with Main PSU powering HDD - cics 03:49:17 03/28/09 (12)
        
        In Reply to: RE: That's a similar test - looks like spdif out of Juli@ is causing this posted by theob on March 28, 2009 at 03:09:35
        
        Well I'm still on the problem and if you're powering your standard HDD from GD that could be the cause due to too much load. Standard drives consume much more power than laptop drives.
        
        Great feedback on the analogue outs - yes they're different but can you make a call on which you prefer?
        
        RE: Re-test with Main PSU powering HDD - theob 03:57:27 03/28/09 (11)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Re-test with Main PSU powering HDD posted by cics on March 28, 2009 at 03:49:17
        
        Right now I have to say the juli@ only because I don't get the problem. If the problem could be fixed I would have to go back and forth to make a definitive call.
        
        Are there any alternatives to the gd power supllies with more capacity?
        
        Btw the new bios specs are great, very very good midrange and sound is very coherent top to bottom, best yet.
        
        Have you tested hvavandepas recommendations? Seems like they may be worthwhile? See link
        
        http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=pcaudio&n=46559&hi (Open in New Window)
        
        OK Re-testing with Main PSU powering HDD - theob 04:23:15 03/28/09 (10)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Re-test with Main PSU powering HDD posted by theob on March 28, 2009 at 03:57:27
        
        Funny though my pc reset Host Clock control to Auto as well as system memory multiplier and Dram timing selectable on bootup. So its not optimum sonically. But we'll see if the metallics go away (I rebooted to get host clock control to 160 everything else to latest spec).
        
        36 minutes I got the metallics. nt - theob 04:57:27 03/28/09 (9)
        
        In Reply to: RE: OK Re-testing with Main PSU powering HDD posted by theob on March 28, 2009 at 04:23:15
        
        ,
        
        Further observations/data on this issue - theob 06:40:46 03/28/09 (8)
        
        In Reply to: RE: 36 minutes I got the metallics. nt posted by theob on March 28, 2009 at 04:57:27
        
        I really believe it is power related: always seem to be more frequent metallics when power line is noisy(noisy today good time to test). Also after I tried internal sata power feed I put back the gd and tried a different power cord to pc (still running juli analogue outs) listened for a while then rehooked up the Dac1 and it was metallic right from the start. Switched back to juli@ and I started noticing a 'beginning of the metallics'---lots of static---when I switched tracks not always but sometimes. But if I just indexed cplay to next track then back again to previus track it would go away. So, I don't know, I'm starting to think maybe power and/or cpu load related might be the issue.
        
        Why are you convinced its not the cpu?
        
        More feedback on juli@ analogue out - theob 08:16:35 03/28/09 (7)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Further observations/data on this issue posted by theob on March 28, 2009 at 06:40:46
        
        I'm liking it very much (maybe after 3-4 days its broken in now). Even though the shortcomings I mentioned vs Dac1 are still there, at 150 host clock control, eist disabled, new devices disabled I am starting to think I like it better. Even with the small ground loop I'm getting, I just love the highs, midrange. While the bass is not as tight (as Dac1) its plumpy in a graceful, musical way. Dynamics perhaps not as good but still better than anything I have heard (save dac1 via cplay/cmp).
        Many music files that were hard. borderline unlistenable through the dac1 are now much better.
        
        Edits: 03/28/09
        
        More feedback on juli@ analogue out - theob 04:17:09 03/29/09 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: More feedback on juli@ analogue out posted by theob on March 28, 2009 at 08:16:35
        
        Here is Windows Task Manager data(just to see if anything here is amiss):
        cpu usage: 44%-64%
        Handles: 1162
        threads: 120
        processes: 14
        Physical memory: 251k
        available: 74K
        sys cache: 91k
        commit charge:
        total: 164k
        limit: 239k
        peak: 164k
        kernel memory:
        tot: 8k
        paged: 6k
        nonpaged: 3K
        Anything pop as out of the ordinary?
        I am running 192/146, at 150 host clock control all else per latest spec.
        Also since I lowered host clock control I noticed cpu usage go up and my metallics come more often than before (while listening to dac1). Also I notice when I reboot the pc is re-setting host clock control to auto , multiplier to auto and dram timing to auto.
        Since I suspect my root cause may be power related I tried plugging my audio pc, power line conditioner(Hydra) into a different outlet--> however I got the same result: the metallics after 5 minutes of play time.
        Also since posting the above I noticed some services wer still started so after I closed all (except the 2) I get 997 handles; 100 threads; 13 processes while running cmp/cplay. Cpu peak usage still about the same as above.
        
        Edits: 03/29/09 03/29/09
        
        RE: More feedback on juli@ analogue out - cics 10:42:28 03/29/09 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: More feedback on juli@ analogue out posted by theob on March 29, 2009 at 04:17:09
        
        During playback, you should only have 12 processes. Check that you only have the 2 required services running (often Crytographic Services starts when doing thing in device manager and must be manually stopped).
        
        If not stable at 150, then try 160 or 165.
        
        Problem appears to be power related because you can't create it when using FD. Standard HDD causes a significant power spike (and associated ground noise) when transitioning from idle to sequential read. Using main PSU doesn't help either!
        
        I was hoping you were doing the test with a laptop drive - any chances of this?
        
        RE: More feedback on juli@ analogue out - theob 12:43:52 03/29/09 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: More feedback on juli@ analogue out posted by cics on March 29, 2009 at 10:42:28
        
        gotta buy one so unless absolutely necessary I won't (just bought a new hdd). If you feel I should I will though. you mean just for music files right? I won't have to reload windows again to set up a new os partition, I hope.
        
        I have 13 processes while running: cicsplay; cicsremote;cmp; juliapan; svchost; lsass;services; winlogon (aka minlogon);crss; smss; system;system idle process. Which one is un-necessary?
        
        Edits: 03/29/09 03/29/09
        
        Hooked dac1 back up - theob 07:07:31 03/30/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: More feedback on juli@ analogue out posted by theob on March 29, 2009 at 12:43:52
        
        Tried running cplay (w/o cmp engaged) off of fd and it went metallic right away. Tried running off of fd with cmp engaged and 1st time it stuttered (had to reboot). After reboot it started but went metallic right away.
        My conclusion is that at 160 hcc and eist disabled I'm getting the problem even on fd. Cpu related?
        I upped clock back up to 165.
        
        Edits: 03/30/09
        
        Listerning to juli@ analogue outs - theob 08:24:52 03/31/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Hooked dac1 back up posted by theob on March 30, 2009 at 07:07:31
        
        had to bump up hcc to 175 to avoid anomalies: stuttering, noise (static-y almost like a metallic overlay but goes away by re-indexing)
        
        Edits: 03/31/09
        
        RE: Listerning to juli@ analogue outs..back to hcc @ 150 - theob 06:28:49 04/01/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Listerning to juli@ analogue outs posted by theob on March 31, 2009 at 08:24:52
        
        after I implemented nopae and checked services each time I reboot to get back to only 2 services. I have to say the sound is very, very good. Cics yes this is a great foundation to build on.
        The mids, highs are absolutely best I have heard in my sys. If I lost any soundstage, bass to the dac1 I pick it back up with nopae.
        While I love the sound I'm bordering on instability. I get the fuzzies almost metallics when cplay swithches tracks or reloads in a track. But I re-index it manually and its ok. I hate to keep asking but doesn't it sound like borderline processor performance? I know you said it probably isn't but there's not much left in my pc to suspect as root cause of my issue. (Follow up: Running music files off flash drive fixes this noise issue for awhile, but had to go back up to 155 hcc.)
        But bravo on new spec!!
        As you can see I think my sys is right at the borderline of stability (or at least this crazy noise I now get in the juli@ analogue out mode).
        
        Edits: 04/01/09 04/01/09 04/01/09 04/01/09
        
        hate to be a pia to you cics but... - theob 11:46:33 04/01/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Listerning to juli@ analogue outs..back to hcc @ 150 posted by theob on April 01, 2009 at 06:28:49
        
        ... the tics, drop outs, metallics, fuzzies got so bad today I could not listen to cplay 20 so I loaded cplay 18 back in. Not a tic, drop out, no fuzzies, no anamolies.
        
        Its interesting because I get about the same cpu usage as cplay 20 and 18 is not as good sonically but something about my machine does not allow cplay 20 to play w/o problems.
        
        Does this make any sense to you?
        
        Thank you so much for your help in diagnosing this issue - theob 12:23:51 03/23/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Answer is option 1 (DAC1 is causing this at 192k input and not 96k or lower) posted by cics on March 23, 2009 at 10:36:15
        
        You are a gentleman and a scholar (in the literal not figurative sense). If I have to get another dac (that is if Benchmark can't fix mine) I will do so so I don't have give up on cplay/cmp.
        
        Thanks again for a wonderful player.
        
        I was hoping this was not the case. - theob 11:21:06 03/23/09 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Answer is option 1 (DAC1 is causing this at 192k input and not 96k or lower) posted by cics on March 23, 2009 at 10:36:15
        
        I guess I will see if Benchmark will fix it. I'm wondering if others with Benchmarks experience this problem? I guess its time to get a Buffalo Sabre which has a way to input I2s.
        
        Rickminnis: my apologies to you. You had suggested this before but I defended my beloved benchie.
        
        RE: I was hoping this was not the case. - RayBan 13:39:57 03/23/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I was hoping this was not the case. posted by theob on March 23, 2009 at 11:21:06
        
        I am also using a Benchmark DAC1 PRE. Yesterday I was listening, off and on, and suddenly I noticed something like an echo and distortion in the right channel.
        
        I had just had the HDD out to copy the C:/ partition and thought I had not secured it properly. I shutdown, repositioned the HDD on the mounts and started up again. Everything was now ok.
        
        Makes me wonder if what cics is saying applies to all Benchmarks???
        
        They have excellent CS and will probably look into your problem Theo. Ask them to tell you what they find.
        RayBan
        
        What 192 capable dacs are others using with cplay? - theob 12:16:13 03/23/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I was hoping this was not the case. posted by theob on March 23, 2009 at 11:21:06
        
        Appreciate some input.
        
        RE: What 192 capable dacs are others using with cplay? - sondale 14:28:42 03/23/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What 192 capable dacs are others using with cplay? posted by theob on March 23, 2009 at 12:16:13
        
        theob,
        
        I am waiting for the new Buffalo - it seems to promise a lot - but no idea on the price just yet!
        
        Alan
        
        RE: What 192 capable dacs are others using with cplay? - theob 14:59:01 03/23/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: What 192 capable dacs are others using with cplay? posted by sondale on March 23, 2009 at 14:28:42
        
        me too unless Benchmark can fix my dac
        
        RE: Just test using headphones connected to Juli@'s analogue outs - theob 03:51:59 03/22/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Just test using headphones connected to Juli@'s analogue outs posted by cics on March 22, 2009 at 00:55:38
        
        ok let set it up. I can do this yes. So you want me to run untill the metallics come---or not. What are you expecting to learn from this? I don't see it.
        
        RE: Can't do this Dave, I would need asio4all which only does 96 src - sondale 07:36:50 03/21/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Can't do this Dave, I would need asio4all which only does 96 src posted by theob on March 21, 2009 at 07:19:57
        
        theob,
        
        I think the idea of eliminating juli@ is a good one, one of the things that strikes me about all of your problems is the time element. If it was a heat problem - bad solder joint - or a capacitor problem then it probably would exhibit the same behaviour for all settings.
        
        One of the problems that always occurs when programming is that things are not cleared properly and problems ensue when a certain point is reached. It seems strange but it is almost like a buffer is being filled faster than it can be emptied - hence a reboot clears it. So it would not be apparent with the lower levels of playback 96K etc - however the time it takes to show itself seems to be several hours - except when you still had services running (taking up resources) - which would seem to suggest a massive buffer!
        
        So - back to juli@ - I think take it out for the moment.
        
        Over here in England we are enjoying a fine spell of weather - so that is me done on the computer till Monday.
        
        Alan
        
        RE: Can't do this Dave, I would need asio4all which only does 96 src - theob 08:05:42 03/21/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Can't do this Dave, I would need asio4all which only does 96 src posted by sondale on March 21, 2009 at 07:36:50
        
        You guys would be proud of me---all the way through with optimizations only needing minlogon. All that in 8 hours of work--not as bad as I thought.
        But if I replace juli@ with Azalia how can I run at 192? That is where the problem occurs. So do I do a Lynx card (here in the states thats $600, can't afford it)? Do I do an RME card (don't want it, per AA probably not as good sonically as juli@)? Whats left--- (I don't know I'm at a loss)? (Did I put my question marks in right place?)
        
        Cics what do you think?
        
        Edits: 03/21/09
        
        RE: Can't do this Dave, I would need asio4all which only does 96 src - sondale 10:35:07 03/21/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Can't do this Dave, I would need asio4all which only does 96 src posted by theob on March 21, 2009 at 08:05:42
        
        theob,
        
        Jolly good show!
        
        I get your reasoning - the problem only occurs on 192 and for that you need the juli@.
        
        Is it possible to produce a cpuz print when you first start and everything is going well and then as soon as the metallics come along to take another print?
        
        There may well not be any smoking gun - but it might be worthwhile.
        
        Alan
        
        RE: Metallic overlay still with me, yikes - theob 06:25:24 03/21/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Metallic overlay still with me, yikes posted by Ryelands on March 21, 2009 at 06:18:56
        
        yes I just figured that out. Have to go to my local Guitar Center and get some unbalanced to balanced adapters.
        
        thanks for your help.
        
        I'll go silent on this board until I try this.
RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player - tsearay 11:29:37 03/16/09 (8)
This is my problem, BC (before Cics) I ripped all my cd's as individual wav files, I have close to 300 gig. I now want to be able to take those wav files create cue and be able to open in cplay. I have spent several days googling this tried several so called trial versions only to find that track information etc is missing. I can and have in EAC burned back to CD and then re ripped, very time consuming. Is there anything out there that would allow me to create cue files without doing this. I can do this with EAC but my music PC and my edit PC are not the same and when I transfer the file the cue will not work and with the OS modifications editing on that PC is very limited. Thomas
No worries!
- RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player - seger 12:37:17 03/16/09 (7)
  If by "individual wav files" you mean single file CDImage, then the best alternative may be to run your CDs through EAC again, but only make a cuesheet - much quicker than re-ripping. If you mean you have separate files for each track then the best way by far is to use aljordan's RecursiveCueCreator .
  - RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player - tsearay 17:57:40 03/16/09 (6)
    Yes excellent software but, I could not install the java environment in the cics modified OS. Some thing/s in the modified environment must be re-enabled to allow the installation of the Java runtime environment. I lack the knowledge as too the source of this solution. Thomas
    No worries!
    - RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player - seger 04:38:19 03/17/09 (5)
      It's better if you can do all your cuesheet preparations in another computer and then transfer them to your dedicated music computer.
      - RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player - tsearay 08:27:40 03/17/09 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player posted by seger on March 17, 2009 at 04:38:19
        
        Yes understood however, the File address within the cue sheet when created with EAC/write-cdr/save cue sheet, which functions very similar to RCC uses a file address which must be edited when moving from computer a to b. Cmp error file wav not valid. Where as, a cue ripped by EAC from a source CD does not require this edit when transfered from computer a to b. Thomas
        No worries!
        
        RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player - seger 10:17:47 03/17/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player posted by tsearay on March 17, 2009 at 08:27:40
        
        I have my directory structure the same on several systems, just so I can work on one and then transfer successfully to the others - that way you don't get any errors. I'm not saying you should do this, as there are many ways to skin a cat, including making cuesheets with EAC - hope you find a way that's convenient for you.
        
        RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player - tsearay 11:59:12 03/17/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player posted by seger on March 17, 2009 at 10:17:47
        
        Thank you I will try modifying my directory structures. Thomas
        No worries!
        
        RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player - tsearay 13:32:55 03/17/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player posted by tsearay on March 17, 2009 at 11:59:12
        
        I wanted to thank Seger for walking through this with me.I would also like to post a brief description of the process. I have been using EAC to create CUE from single wav files that I have ripped to my music drive. First create a folder(Duke Ellington)and put all wav files to cue in that folder. To use EAC on your Cics music PC you must re-enable your CD drive or EAC hangs up, if you use another computer the file path must be identical (E:\EAC). So, EAC> Tools> write cd-r> layout> append files as new tracks(index 1),your choice> File> Save Cue sheet. I have been able to do this with both redbook and HiRes, I don't actually burn anything. I cut and paste the track titles from the source file into the EAC window, Track 01 etc... Then edit in notepad. File> open> select cue> add spaces at top> REM GENRE Jazz(if you want)> PERFORMER "Duke Ellington"> TITLE "Standards"> Save. By putting in the PERFORMER and TITLE Cplay and Cmp display the information. That's it open in cplay to test and play music. Thanks again Seger, Thomas.
        No worries!
        
        RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player - seger 11:11:31 03/19/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: cMP - the open source high-end Memory Player posted by tsearay on March 17, 2009 at 13:32:55
        
        Hmm... This is an interesting way to arrive at full-address cuesheets, but not what I was pointing toward. If you are going to do this much copy & paste, you might as well copy your files into a genre/artist/album/music files structure and make cuesheets for all of them in a few seconds with RecursiveCueCreator. Then just copy the whole lot to your music computer, making sure the drive letter for the music directory is the same.
I need to enable something in bios to set up and format a new hdd... - theob 11:16:17 03/16/09 (9)
...what is it? I have full cmp/cplay system with minlogon enabled. I installed a new hdd and it shows in device manager under disc drives but I cant enable disc management under Computer Management/Storage. So do I simply re-enable something in bios or restart some service (I tried restarting all the logical disc services and the RPC Locator service but I keep getting a The RPC Server is unavailable message). How do I get Disc Management to work?

Edits: 03/16/09
- RE: I need to enable something in bios to set up and format a new hdd... - GStew 13:32:23 03/16/09 (8)
  Theo,
  
  I don't have the answer for your question, but I do have the work-around I would use.
  
  Shut your computer down, disconnect the current harddrive, then connect the new harddrive in it's place. Then put your Windows XP CD in your CD drive and start the installation process. At one point in the process, you get the opportunity to setup a partion on the drive and then format it. Do that, then shut the computer down as soon as that's done. Voila', you now have a formatted harddrive!
  
  Doing it this way means you don't have to undo all those carefully entered customizations in Windows XP.
  
  You can then connect your current harddrive back where it normally goes and the new harddrive to the 2nd drive position and see the new harddrive in Windows Explorer. Of course, I assume you are now wanting to copy the contents of your current harddrive onto the new harddrive without having to install and customize Windows all over again... if so, let us know and we'll have several suggestions on how best to do that.
  
  Greg in Mississippi
  - RE: I need to enable something in bios to set up and format a new hdd... - RayBan 15:07:42 03/16/09 (1)
    I for one would like to see what your follow up would be after both HDDs are formatted and running; one cMP2 capable and the other partitioned but bare.
    
    The ability to have a "backup" HDD totally prepared/loaded with full tweaks is too good to pass up!!
    
    I have 2 identical 1 TB HDDs one of which is currently in the machine and running. I would like to make an exact "clone" of drive A just for restoral purposes. Sort of like RAID but safely stored outside the machine, ready for use.
    RayBan
    - RE: I need to enable something in bios to set up and format a new hdd... - theob 16:19:32 03/16/09 (0)
      Ray I put an empty 10 gig parttition in my new hdd. Then after formatting the rest of it (490 gigs) I left my os on the original hdd to see if running cplay with music files from the new hdd whether I'll get the metallic overlay. The conclusion after trying reloading juli@ drivers, adding a new juli@ card, new memory was that my problem was probably caused by my old hdd. The reason for this conclusion is that running music off a fd did not cause the problem. So we shall see. If this works I'll transfer the os to the partition, transfer all music files to the new hdd and take out my old hdd. If it doesn't work I'll try cloning my os to my fd, taking out my old hdd and see if that works. If not I'm back to manually loading my music onto my fd and running that way. I needed a new hdd anyway so its all good
  - RE: I need to enable something in bios to set up and format a new hdd... - Ryelands 13:58:53 03/16/09 (5)
    GStew wrote:
    
    I don't have the answer for your question, but I do have the work-around I would use.
    
    Another possible way is to install the drive on a different machine and, using its Disk Management tool, delete the existing partition, create a new one and re-format the drive.
    
    I have no idea why (and it seems rather to defy logic) but that has more than once enabled a "stripped-down" cMP2 system to recognise a drive that it did not recognise before.
    
    Whatever, I've yet to succeed in getting the Disk Management tool to function in a cMP2 box even though its BIOS and its Device Manager both acknowledge the target.
    
    (If others have, perhaps they'll explain how . . .)
    
    Best
    
    Dave
    - RE: I need to enable something in bios to set up and format a new hdd... - riboge 14:25:01 03/16/09 (0)
      I, too, have been unable to get Disk Management to work even turning back on various combinations of seemingly relevant services. Me too on hoping someone has succeeded and will report on how.
    - RE: I need to enable something in bios to set up and format a new hdd... - theob 14:20:17 03/16/09 (0)
      ok good so install/format/partition on another computer and re-install on audio computer will work huh?
    - RE: I need to enable something in bios to set up and format a new hdd... - seger 14:11:04 03/16/09 (2)
      Dave - try turning on DCOM service temporarily - does it for me.
      - RE: I need to enable something in bios to set up and format a new hdd... - theob 14:25:45 03/16/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I need to enable something in bios to set up and format a new hdd... posted by seger on March 16, 2009 at 14:11:04
        
        that worked
        
        RE: I need to enable something in bios to set up and format a new hdd... - theob 16:20:49 03/16/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I need to enable something in bios to set up and format a new hdd... posted by theob on March 16, 2009 at 14:25:45
        
        I also restarted all the logical disc services in addition to dcom and that worked.
        
        Edits: 03/16/09
Need feedback on this experimental setup for cMP² - cics 09:50:55 03/16/09 (31)
This is the latest BIOS settings and applies to setups having the lowest CPU VID setting (for E7200 etc. this is 0.85000V) and playing WAV (FLAC may work if output rate is less than 192k).

Try the following (both Gigabyte G31M-S2L and GA-G31M-S2C mobos should do):
1. Advanced BIOS Features: disable EIST
2. MB Intelligent Tweaker (M.I.T.): set CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) to 150. This should give FSB of 600MHz, CPU of 900MHz and RAM speed of 300Mhz.
My setup is very stable at this low CPU speed.

@Rick - some power measurements on this would be very useful.
- RE: Need feedback on this experimental setup for cMP² - GStew 18:56:39 03/24/09 (5)
  cics,
  
  I performed the bios changes fairly quickly after you first posted them and did not find a significant difference. But seeing the response of others AND seeing additional changes to make, I tried them again tonight. At first, with just the mouse changes, the device disables, and the bios changes alone, I was still not blown away. But your post on RAM timing got me to try different timings.
  
  I started at 3-3-3-8 and it was ok. Up to 3-3-3-9 and it was a little too etched. Then down through 3-3-3-7 and 3-3-3-6 to 3-3-3-5 where I got a smoothness in the highs, an aliveness in the mids, and a stronger sense of PRAT in the bass and now I'm with it.
  
  BTW, my cMP uses the recommended case/Mobo/HDD/processor/heatsink/memory/audio card and has all the customizations applied through Minlogon, but uses a linear/hybrid supply for the ATX24 connection and fully linear supplies for the P4 and two 'dirty' supplies, replacing the Granite Digital units. More on those in a different thread.
  
  Greg in Mississippi
  
  P.S. With each change like this, I go back through the bios and try both recommended CPU GTLREF Voltage Ratios... and always come back to preferring .566
  - RE: Need feedback on this experimental setup for cMP² - GStew 11:12:26 03/25/09 (0)
    cics,
    I forgot to mention that I'm running 192 oversampling with FLAC files and have had not hiccups or stutters since dropping the host frequency to 150.
    Greg in Mississippi
    
    Edits: 03/25/09
  - Test on GTLREF voltage ratios is useful - cics 07:05:14 03/25/09 (3)
    I leave mine on 0.566 and haven't tested others when doing these changes.
    
    Look at switching to SSD from HDD - this should make a bigger difference in your setup. Robert also uses SSD.
    - SSD vs HDD (Open in New Window)
    - RE: Test on GTLREF voltage ratios is useful - GStew 08:30:52 03/25/09 (2)
      cics,
      
      Replacing the HDD with an SSD is in my upgrade plans, but my intention was to wait a bit (as the prices continue to come down) and do that after I build a custom case where I can better control vibrations and shielding between sections of the cMP.
      
      And that's all after I have spent some time upgrading the Juli@ and installing the DAC boards I mentioned.
      
      One question... do you know if anyone has compared the sound of a cMP with an E7200 vs an E7300? I have both available, the E7200 is currently in my cMP, and I'm wondering if it's worth swapping it out.
      
      Greg in Mississippi
      
      P.S. I am convinced of the benefit of eliminating the spinning drive due to an experience I've had a number of times... sometimes after I have made a change to my cMP, when I close it up, it won't sound right. Almost always, I go back inside and find that I have the HDD up against one of the internal standoffs and vibrations are getting fed back into the case. Moving it so it is on the isolation feet underneath it and not touching one of those 'non-removable' internal standoffs in the Zalman always fixes the sound.
      - E7xxx processor all have same basic specifications (3MB Cache, Dual Core, VIDs, FSB) but different frequency - cics 09:39:51 03/25/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Test on GTLREF voltage ratios is useful posted by GStew on March 25, 2009 at 08:30:52
        
        It would be a waste to change within 'family' rather wait for next generation 35nm processor technology which would offer less power consumption.
        
        Why don't you store HDD in 3.5" bay - just use a 2.5" to 3.5" bracket.
        
        RE: E7xxx processor all have same basic specifications (3MB Cache, Dual Core, VIDs, FSB) but different frequency - GStew 10:14:42 03/25/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: E7xxx processor all have same basic specifications (3MB Cache, Dual Core, VIDs, FSB) but different frequency posted by cics on March 25, 2009 at 09:39:51
        
        Ok. I was just curious as I had an E7300 processor available (it's in my ripping PC) and could change it pretty easily.
        
        On the harddrive, I had it in the 3.5" bay with a homemade adapter that provided some vibration isolation (see attached picture). But when the drive touched the sides of the bay instead of being isolated, I noticed a SQ reduction. So I went to the setup in my picture in my previous post... the HDD is mounted to a bamboo block which sits on 4 isolators and has a damping weight on top. This works well as long as it's not pushed against the standoffs... which can happen when I am changing between the GD dirty supplies and the linear dirty supply and don't remember to check it's position.
        
        Also, I figure anything that's not in the case won't be able to vibrate and possibly affect SQ.
        
        Greg in Mississippi
- Additional USB Device Manager setup / optimisation - cics 16:22:06 03/17/09 (7)
  For all USB devices connected: goto Device Manager > select Device (e.g. Mouse or Keyboard) > right-click > select Properties > select Power Management Tab > Uncheck "Allow this device to bring the computer out of standby."
  - Two more devices to disable - cics 02:38:36 03/21/09 (6)
    From Device Manager you can disable the following under System Devices:
    1. Microsoft System Management BIOS Driver
    2. System Board
    - RE: Two more devices to disable - Ryelands 04:40:21 03/22/09 (5)
      cics wrote:
      
      From Device Manager you can disable the following under System Devices:
      1. Microsoft System Management BIOS Driver
      2. System Board
      
      As we all know, if you right-click each line in the Devices Manager > System Devices list, some have a "Disable" function, others don't.
      
      On both the Biostar and Gigabyte MoBos as well as on an Asus skt754 board now replaced, I can disable every device that can be disabled with no apparent ill effect.
      
      These typically include several lines called "Motherboard Resources", a "Direct Memory Access Controller" and so on. I had expected that some at least would either cause problems or "freeze" the system but none did. There are no Road-to-Damascus improvements either but the step seems in line with cMP2 design goals.
      
      A slight exception was the Biostar, where I recently had to re-enable the third "PCI standard PCI-to-PCI bridge" to install a PCIe 2xSATA card for extra HDDs. (With hindsight, I might have done better to change the MoBo for one with four SATA ports as it would have been easier to do and as I need to run with Issass enabled when pulling data off the new HDD under cMP.)
      
      On a different and purely cosmetic point, it bugs me that Windows shows e.g. "My Network Places" with the obduracy of a drunken sailor on shore leave even on a machine with no network interface.
      
      The following Registry changes stop "My Network Places", "Shared Documents" and the Control Panel from being displayed in both Explorer and cMP's navigation menu.
      
      Expand:
      HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\{208D2C60-3AEA-1069-A2D7-08002B30309D}
      
      Select the ShellFolder and, in the right-hand pane, select New > DWORD value; name it Attributes and enter the value 20180000 to hide "My Network Places".
      
      Expand:
      HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\Explorer
      
      (If there is no Explorer folder, right-click Policies, select New > Key and name the folder Explorer.)
      
      Select the Explorer folder and, in the right-hand pane, select New > DWORD value; name it NoSharedDocuments and set it to 1 to hide "Shared Documents".
      
      Select the Explorer folder and, in the right-hand pane, select New > DWORD value; name it NoSetFolders and set it to 1 to hide the Control Panel, Printer and Network Settings buttons.
      
      These changes can easily be found and checked on the usual web sites but I thought some folk might like them listed here: even if they are only cosmetic, anything that lessens Microsoft's patronising whimsy has to be worth a look.
      
      Dave
      - RE: Two more devices to disable - seger 03:21:28 03/26/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Two more devices to disable posted by Ryelands on March 22, 2009 at 04:40:21
        
        Is this what you're referring to? Right click Start button > Porperties > Start Menu tab > bullet Start menu > Customize > Advanced tab: untick My Network Places, and anything else you don't want to see. My Start menus usually look like this:
        
        RE: Two more devices to disable - Ryelands 04:36:45 03/26/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Two more devices to disable posted by seger on March 26, 2009 at 03:21:28
        
        seger wrote:
        
        Is this what you're referring to?
        
        Possibly - but the method is not, as far as I can see, available to users of the Windows "Classic" desktop.
        
        I wanted to rid cMP's browsing GUI of XP-derived clutter but "tips" off a variety of web sites proved flakey (though TweakUI is fine for hiding system partitions). However, I found the Registry edits I cited to be reliable: it's a tiny cosmetic point, no more.
        
        On a more substantive note, as cutting system power consumption is a cMP2 design goal, users might like to try this simple "optimisiation".
        
        Measure the power drawn by the monitor as its brightness is turned down. (How to do this depends on whether your monitor is mains- or DC-powered.)
        
        At first, the draw falls as the brightness is cut but it then levels off. Obviously, stop just as it starts to level off. At it is probably now a shade dark, raise the contrast slightly to restore legibility as that doesn't increase the draw.
        
        I cut the power consumed by my monitor by about a third this way.
        
        Best
        
        Dave
        
        RE: Two more devices to disable - seger 09:36:59 03/26/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Two more devices to disable posted by Ryelands on March 26, 2009 at 04:36:45
        
        Wow, that is a tiny thing, now I see it - nice job hunting down the fix!
      - RE: Two more devices to disable - cics 10:46:46 03/23/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Two more devices to disable posted by Ryelands on March 22, 2009 at 04:40:21
        
        PCI users must keep 3rd "Motherboard resources" enabled.
        
        "DMA Controller" should always be enabled.
        
        RE: Two more devices to disable - cics 06:59:49 03/25/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Two more devices to disable posted by cics on March 23, 2009 at 10:46:46
        
        The 2 other remaining "Motherboard resources" should be enabled - this affects south bridge chipset.
- RE: Need feedback on this experimental setup for cMP² - Ryelands 06:58:16 03/17/09 (1)
  I've been running cMP2 with the system clock at 840 MHz and the RAM at 200 MHz for several months in a non-overoversampling setup. I'm not sure if your settings matter much with non-OS but they seem to do no harm either (inc turning off EIST).
  Perhaps of more general interest is that, as my mobo and CPU are now both powered by a 5-amp linear supply and pico-PSU (as GStew describes), it is not difficult to calculate the power draw by measuring current and voltage after the power supply. (This allows for PSU dissipation and should be slightly more accurate.)
  Set as you ask (900MHz/300MHz), the current is 1.8 amps when playing straight non-OS data, rising to 2 amps when busy (i.e. decompressing large flac files). The voltage is as close to 12 as makes no odds so the draw is between 21 and 24 watts (assuming PF = 1 [DB edit "D'oh - it's DC").
  I tried measuring with default settings (2.6 GHz) for a baseline. The current rose to 3.6 amps for a brief period before, for whatever reason, tripping the circuit breaker (!). I'm pretty sure I was within the PSU spec but I don't want to risk the board by trying the measurement too often.
  Whatever, I left the meter monitoring current with the underclocked settings for several hours and it didn't waver from 1.8 to 2.0 amps except to go briefly up a little bit (~500 ma) during bootups.
  Hope that helps,
  Dave
  
  Edits: 03/17/09
  - Power consumption of 21.6w was expected - range of 21-24 is excellent! nt - cics 16:05:20 03/17/09 (0)
    .
- RE: Need feedback on this experimental setup for cMP² - telrab 06:47:14 03/17/09 (7)
  Wow, lot's of improvements here! Instruments getting bigger, better separated, more spatial information. Only drawback : slow response of userinterface when hitting keyboard or mouse.
  
  Setup: Cplay playing Flac-files upsampling to 192K, G31M-S2L, Antec Earthwatts PS with additional capacitors, E7200@0.85V, juli@ connected via I2S to buffalo-dac.
  
  I even tried to lower the CPU Host Freq to 100, but mobo didn't boot after that. So i changed it back to 150.
  
  Cics, thank you very much for this upgrade!
  - @bertel & telrab: Do you get improvement with additional Device Manager changes? - cics 01:03:43 03/22/09 (6)
    Use SSE4 version and set RAM timings to Auto (this would give 3-3-3-7@300MHz).
    
    Midrange performance should have a purity and lushness that delivers an amazing emotional impact. I have no tubes in the chain.
    - RE: @bertel & telrab: Do you get improvement with additional Device Manager changes? - telrab 03:18:11 03/25/09 (0)
      Cics,
      
      The additional changes give a clearly noticable improvement in SQ: a more delicate and detailed midrange, the 'S'-sound in voices is more prominent as well. I now tend to push the volume even louder.
      
      Thanks!
    - RE: @bertel & telrab: Do you get improvement with additional Device Manager changes? - Bertel 15:11:01 03/22/09 (4)
      Although I'm still right in the process of burning in my newly installed all pure battery power supply for the P4 connector (first step, 24pin to follow next) as well as getting used to the sonic changes this brings, I think I can clearly say that I did not see any change when unchecking the Mouse-wakeup-property alone, but think I DO hear a change when disabling "System Management BIOS Driver" and "System Board". I would describe it as quite noticably more air, spatiousness and even more "correct" positioning, all in midrange events - if that's what you mean by "purity" we're probably experiencing the same, because these effects came together with a feeling that once more it's another tiny step towards perfection that made me notice that the listening experience feels again even more "right". Difficult to describe (even more so for a non-native English speaker...), but I think you get the point.
      
      Now will try to disable the other system devices as well as per Dave's suggestion and also do the Registry changes.
      - RE: @bertel & telrab: Do you get improvement with additional Device Manager changes? - Ryelands 06:35:17 03/23/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: @bertel & telrab: Do you get improvement with additional Device Manager changes? posted by Bertel on March 22, 2009 at 15:11:01
        
        bertel wrote:
        Now will try to disable the other system devices as well as per Dave's suggestion and also do the Registry changes.
        I look forward to hearing how you get on with these but do remember that they have been tested by me only so be sure to make them one at a time and to note what you disable in case you need to restore it.
        Note also that the registry changes I described are cosmetic only and that I forgot to mention that the Control Panel one makes the CP inaccessible from the Start menu. Instead, type "Control" in the Run line.
        
        Dave
        
        Edits: 03/23/09 03/23/09
        
        Changes to System Devices, Registry - Bertel 06:54:02 03/23/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: @bertel & telrab: Do you get improvement with additional Device Manager changes? posted by Ryelands on March 23, 2009 at 06:35:17
        
        Hi Dave,
        thanks for the "disclaimer" ;-) Yes, I did try them one at a time, and as was your experience (I too have the Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L) I also could disable the remaining system devices without any problem.
        Please allow a very personal / highly speculative / probably rather placebo-wise "I hear what I want to hear" assessment of the effects as I perceived them: The immediate result was a meanwhile quite familiar one - while the 2 changes recommended by cics did bring the "predicted" results in midrange, the additional changes then were a bit "too much" at once and resulted in some harshness and a feeling of being "not quite right yet" - the usual situation when the system after some changes needs some time again to break in. It has done so for a few hours now, and things are starting to get smooth and mellow again.
        I am a bit uneasy about reporting such tiny and VERY subjective effects, but we know how all these ever so little steps and improvements in our digital audio domain all have lead and still lead up to such a tremendous achievement as cMP/cPlay in fact is - and concept-wise the additional ones discussed here are also absolutely in line and therefore just "right" :-)
        
        Edits: 03/23/09 03/23/09
        
        Do not disable the 3rd "Motherboard resources" device which is for PCI bus - cics 10:27:59 03/23/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Changes to System Devices, Registry posted by Bertel on March 23, 2009 at 06:54:02
        
        This will impact negatively on SQ. First 2 can be disabled.
        
        RE: Do not disable the 3rd "Motherboard resources" device which is for PCI bus - Bertel 11:04:50 03/23/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Do not disable the 3rd "Motherboard resources" device which is for PCI bus posted by cics on March 23, 2009 at 10:27:59
        
        Oh wow - so the loss in sound quality that I could notice (as described above) was not due to the again required break in period but to these two devices (3rd "Motherboard resource" for PCI, and "DMA controller" as per your other post)?!
        It DID work without instabilities, but that of course is not the point here - interesting that you can follow the rules of "less is more" too strictly and turn off too many things... ;-)
        Thank you indeed for this very valuable advice - will sneak back and silently turn those two back on again... ;-)
        
        Edits: 03/23/09 03/23/09
- Works great - Bertel 04:46:58 03/17/09 (0)
  In my almost recommended setup (Gigabyte GA-G31M-S2L, E7200, Kingston 512MB HyperX which I prefer over 256MB ValueRam, Lynx AES-16, all optimizations done incl. minlogon) this worked without any problem right from the start, no dropouts (I play wav only upsampled to 24/192) or instabilities whatsoever.
  
  At first listen I was immediately aware of greater and finer detail (cymbal strokes I hadn't noticed before, additional small ounds and tonal colours that came to my attention for the first time) while the soundstage seems a bit less wide, a tad constrained - but of course this may all be placebo, will let the system burn in for 48 hours and then report my findings.
  
  look forward to what the fellow inmates experience and (most important) hear!
  
  Cheers,
  Robert
- RE: Need feedback on this experimental setup for cMP² - theob 16:43:37 03/16/09 (5)
  I'm not sure I can go that low because I had to bump it up to 185 to minimize my 'metallic overlay' issue. I'm now trying music off a new hdd. But I will try once I go through my 'test out' program on the new hdd. But question are you now recommending disabling Eist?
  - RE: Need feedback on this experimental setup for cMP² - cics 17:26:58 03/16/09 (4)
    Disabling EIST is experimental - the difference in is minimal but am hoping this will allow for lower host freq.
    - RE: Need feedback on this experimental setup for cMP² - theob 11:46:12 03/17/09 (3)
      Does your statement imply that disabling EIST may make low clock speeds more stable? Maybe that will help my metallic issue.
      - With EIST disabled, there's much better low CPU voltage stability - cics 16:14:13 03/17/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Need feedback on this experimental setup for cMP² posted by theob on March 17, 2009 at 11:46:12
        
        On my second cMP² I couldn't get CPU voltage below 1.00625V to work and anything below 1.00000V would require a CMOS reset. Now that EIST is disabled, the opposite is true! That is, at CPU Host Freq of 150 (CPU at 900MHz) higher voltages (above 1.00000V) is unstable.
        
        I now have it operational at CPU Voltage of 0.85000V and Host Freq at 150. Need more time to see if this setup is robust. It seems EIST's benefit of L2 cache down sizing (and resultant power savings) is not without penalties.
        
        RE: With EIST disabled, there's much better low CPU voltage stability - theob 09:18:38 03/21/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: With EIST disabled, there's much better low CPU voltage stability posted by cics on March 17, 2009 at 16:14:13
        
        I can go as low as 150 as long as I run files off a fd. But sonically I prefer 170.
        
        By the way do you have any ideas on my issue? If so would appreciate your feedback.
        
        RE: With EIST disabled, there's much better low CPU voltage stability - Bertel 00:24:41 03/18/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: With EIST disabled, there's much better low CPU voltage stability posted by cics on March 17, 2009 at 16:14:13
        
        So given this effect of EIST to downsize L2 cache and thus further lower power consumption, wouldn't the best combination be the new settings (CPU Voltage @ 0.85000V, Host Freq @ 150) and EIST enabled? Tried that in my setup, seems to work fine without problems or instabilities.
New GIGABYTE motherboard G31M-ES2L - n_vincent 01:12:56 03/15/09 (1)
Cics,

I was on the way replacing my motherboard with the last recommanded one and I discover that the G31M-S2L is replace with the G31M-ES2L. I bought the G31M-S2L but after examination on both, it look like the PBC could be the same, the E is for Energie Saving. BIOS like to be diferent.

Nicolas
- Recommended G31M-S2L is no longer available. Rather use GA-G31M-S2C (which should offer same BIOS settings) - cics 04:17:38 03/15/09 (0)
  Maybe I'll get one and test.
Granite PS for USB + LCD + SSD - dtrange behaviour... - Bertel 01:11:58 03/08/09 (5)
*** sorry, can't edit typo in subject - of course it's "strange", not "dtrange"... *sigh* ***
Dear cics and fellow inmates,
ok, my setup may be rather "purist" and minimalistic, but still:
I initially used 1 Granite PS to power USB for mouse and power for LCD inside Zalman HD160XT case (don't use touch, would need additional Zalman software install - no way! ;-) ) as well as SATA II SSD - worked just fine. (Hardware and optimizations all as required/recommended - Giga mobo, Kingston ValueRam, E7200 etc.)
But hmm, I have been not too comfortable with 'dirty' power always on the USB line (thus probably also 'spilling' onto the board maybe...) and mostly with a LCD screen inside the case that HAS to cause at least SOME radiation, interference and so on - so with Granite PSs having such a neat On/Off switch, why not use two Granites, one for the SSD (which of course has to stay always on during playback, for OS and .wav file loading reasons) and another for USB and LCD which I can turn off for longer listening sessions (e.g. listening to a whole CD or so).
That's what I did, and it BASICALLY works of course - but there's some strange behaviour now:
Now issues with the SSD and with the LCD, they work as expected, but now with a dedicated Granite PS for only LCD screen (remember, no touch here) and USB mouse, the mouse has irregular "dropouts" which increase over time! To be more precise: Startup is fine, first few minutes usually work fine - can be easily judged by the red light the mouse displays (am using "regular" Microsoft optical USB mouse - no 2.4 GHz so close to where brilliant sound is crafted! ;-) ). Then after a few minutes the light starts to go out occasionally for a second or two but comes back, and this behaviour increases over time. When I leave the system untouched for some time, I can watch the light on for say 12 seconds, then go out for 3, then come back for 4, go out for 10, stay on for 2 minutes and so on - totally random, no pattern for me to identify... It goes out completely after 10? 12? 15? minutes (also no pattern here) and comes back only when I unplug and re-plug it, then same behaviour as above. This btw is a mouse-only issue - an USB memory stick when used in the same USB port stays on all the time without problems (judging by the light it has, it very rarely flickers but never turns off completely or even for a few secs). And I DID in fact also try the Logitech Nano wireless mouse, just to be safe - the glitches and dropouts are substantially less often and present (although they do exist), until after 10 to 15 minutes of being idle it's going off too and there's no way to bring it back. So similar behaviour, seems to be "mouse-related" only.
This is very strange, isn't it? And I can't make any sense of it... Tried it with three different Granites and different mice, no change. And what puzzles me most is that it works when I just use one Granite PS and have the SSD connected, as soon as I disconnect it from this Granite and to another Granite, the behaviour occurs...
Anyone has a hint or already kind of an explanation...? Would be greatly appreciated, because I really like that concept ;-)
Many thanks,
Robert

Edits: 03/08/09 03/08/09 03/08/09 03/08/09 03/08/09
- I suspect its a power supply issue where load is too insignificant (only a mouse!) thus causing problems - cics 09:39:43 03/08/09 (4)
  Try another alternative to GD PS - you just need a 5V source for USB mouse.
  - RE: I suspect its a power supply issue where load is too insignificant (only a mouse!) thus causing problems - Bertel 09:47:53 03/08/09 (3)
    Hm, power load too insignificant, that's what I thought as well - but the LCD which is powered through the same Molex plug from the same Granite works without a flaw, and when I have an USB stick on the second USB port, its light doesn't even flicker... So at least the LCD should "draw" enough power that Granite doesn't shut off due to too insignificant power consumption (if it has that capability at all).
    - LCD puts load on 12V line only leaving 5V to idle. SSD puts load on 5V line. nt - cics 10:37:32 03/08/09 (2)
      .
      - RE: LCD puts load on 12V line only leaving 5V to idle. SSD puts load on 5V line. nt - Bertel 10:46:19 03/08/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: LCD puts load on 12V line only leaving 5V to idle. SSD puts load on 5V line. nt posted by cics on March 08, 2009 at 10:37:32
        
        Oh, I see! I was under the impression that it also uses 5V because there are 4 cables coming from the LCD (yellow=12V, black=GND, red=5V and pink=stand-by 5V), and I thought I remembered that it didn't work without the red 5V line connected. I'll test it right away by removing the red line, LCD should still work then.
        
        Anyway, that's the reason then - many thanks for explaining! I'll now have to figure what a practicable solution involving a second PS for the USB rail will be.
        
        RE: LCD puts load on 12V line only leaving 5V to idle. SSD puts load on 5V line. nt - Bertel 11:23:46 03/08/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: LCD puts load on 12V line only leaving 5V to idle. SSD puts load on 5V line. nt posted by Bertel on March 08, 2009 at 10:46:19
        
        Ok, just to be complete: Verified that LCD works with yellow (=12V) and pink (=stand-by 5V)connected, red (=5V) and black (=GND) not required - don't know what that is then, all four are connected on kind of a "ribbon cable" so maybe power for touch screen (which I don't use anyway).
        
        Ok, so for just powering USB (which is populated only by mouse and occasional USB stick for data transfer) can I use any 5V PS like, say, these: ;-)
        
        http://www.power-chinese.com/ehibition/ehibition_default.asp?pro_id=5
        
        Many thanks!
        Robert
SSD vs HDD - cics 23:03:51 03/06/09 (12)
cMP and cPlay 2.0b20 is truly formidable, however the case for switching to SSD is compelling. Jitter is reduced through:
1. Less EMI pollution (power supplies and data signals), and
2. No mechanical vibrations (no BLDC motors)
Both these factors are caused by the BLDC motors of HDDs - see here for more details and DSO measurements.

I rebuilt my cMP² using Super Talent's SSD which offers SATA 2 capability (MLC NAND based).

Overall, don't rush into SSD as it's more important (and cheaper) to have all cMP² changes applied. A fully specified cMP² setup includes these undocumented changes. Aside: maintaining constant temperature (which improves XO stability) has higher benefit to lowering jitter than removing vibrations. Fans (Case, CPU, PSU, etc) cause temperature variations, nasty vibrations and pollutes power supplies (fans also use BLDC motors). A complete fanless setup (including removal of PSU fans) demands a low power setup . When removing fans and HDDs, be sure to physically remove them - a simple disconnect is not good enough as magnetic inteference from BLDC motors remains.

Using externally powered HDDs goes a long way in removing EMI pollution. Also, modern cases offer good vibration dampening (another alternative is to use eSATA and store HDDs in a sepearate case). So is there benefit to SSD?

YES! As multiblitz puts it:

...my first impression: The sound has more body, more 3D less thin, mre natural. It is subtile, but noticable...

I have the same experience. As competiton and sales ramp up, costs should rapidly decline whilst capacities grow.

It's certainly worth the effort and there's other benefits: complete silence and read / write speeds are factors better than laptop HDDs. What used to be a few seconds of "loading..." is gone - this applies to WAV only (as FLAC's bottleneck is the CPU for decoding). Background loading in cPlay is seamless (HDDs must transition from idle to read state which has a delay and causes a power spike). Mixing SSDs and HDDs is not recommended.
- RE: SSD vs HDD - theob 02:13:19 03/07/09 (11)
  Is it possible to provide cmp/cplay capability such that when you choose a file to run in cmp it loads the entire file onto a flash drive or ssd 1st so we can get the benefits of ssd w/o buying an expensive one with lots of memory? This is what I'm doing manually with my 4 gig fd but I can only load 4 or 5 files at a time on it. And while it is not only worthwhile for the sonic benefits you mention it provides me with a way to run cplay @ 192 w/o any glitches (running off of hd still gives me issues albeit at a lower rate with cplay version 20 than prior versions).
  Just a thought. Others have mentioned this as well.
  FWIW so that others who wish to may try this. I copy the music file and cue sheet from my hd and paste onto my fd. Then I rename the cue sheet title line (I append a 999 at the end of the title line) so that it will show up differently in a 'cmp scroll' of music. You have to designate your fd in cmp as a source for music and cue files. Then when you initialize cmp it will find and display the renamed title line for the cue sheet on fd. Then you simply click on it in cmp and cplay runs off the fd. I assume if you have a big enough fd or ssd you can put the os (Windows et al) on the fd for further improvements but I haven't gotten this far. This work around gives you better sonics and seemless loads into memory with no clicks during playback.
  
  Edits: 03/07/09
  - Using a small SSD drive - cics 11:34:03 03/07/09 (8)
    I DON'T recommend this but its a way to get the SSD benefit using a small SSD drive (4GB):
    
    In your setup, install Windows on the SSD (remaining space is ~3GB for copied music) then your HDD becomes the music library. When you do this, you can set the HDD to spin down (after 3 minutes - see Power Options). This spin down action yields the benefits (but is risky as Windows tends to give a BSOD).
    
    Copy cMP selected files from HDD to SDD using a batch file. You do this in the PREP_PLAYER call (see cMP documentation on "cicsMemoryPlayer.pth" file). Instead of calling cPlay with %c, call it with nothing. That is, cPlay will prompt you on the file to select (set cMP to No in cPlay).
    
    Example of cicsMemoryPlayer.pth file using this setup (notice CUE_PLAYER and PREP_PLAYER):
```
      
 RIPPER #M "c:\program files\exact audio copy\EAC.exe" 
 CUE_PLAYER #N "c:\program files\cics Play\cicsPlay.exe" 
 LIBRARY_MANAGER "c:\windows\explorer.exe" 
 OSK "C:\Program Files\cics Memory Player\ahkosk.exe" 
 PROCESS_EXPLORER "c:\program files\process explorer\procexp.exe" /p:n 
 EXPLORER_KILL "c:\windows\system32\taskkill.exe" /F /IM explorer.exe 
 TOUCH_SCREEN "c:\program files\touchkit\touchkit.exe" 
 PREP_PLAYER #H "C:\cMP_prep.bat" %F 
 REFRESH "cpu-Z" "c:\program files\cpu z\cpuz.exe" 
  
    
```
    In "c:\" copy this into batch file "cMP_prep.bat" and create an empty folder called "c:\tmpmusic" in your c: drive.
```
      
 @echo off 
 del c:\tmpmusic\*.* /q 
 cd c:\tmpmusic 
 copy %1 /y 
 exit 
  
    
```
    Please note that I have not tested this at all. You'll need to experiment and see if it works. When you select an album in cMP, its first content file is copied to "c:\tmpmusic" and cMP then starts cPlay which will prompt for a file - select the tmpmusic folder and the file.
    - RE: Using a small SSD drive - theob 12:03:48 03/07/09 (7)
      wow I did not expect this! I truly appreciate you thinking this through. But I am not a computer guy so let me study this and see if I can get my head around it then I'll eventually try it. I especially want to be careful since you do not recommend but have provided the work around since I asked.
      
      thank you.
      - Cics a few more questions - theob 16:53:58 03/07/09 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Using a small SSD drive posted by theob on March 07, 2009 at 12:03:48
        
        If I just want to use the copy methodology (of hd to fd) without doing the os on fd (I'm doing it now and its ok & I just want replicate it) do I just do the
        
        RIPPER #M "c:\program files\exact audio copy\EAC.exe"CUE_PLAYER #N "c:\program files\cics Play\cicsPlay.exe"LIBRARY_MANAGER "c:\windows\explorer.exe"OSK "C:\Program Files\cics Memory Player\ahkosk.exe"PROCESS_EXPLORER "c:\program files\process explorer\procexp.exe" /p:nEXPLORER_KILL "c:\windows\system32\taskkill.exe" /F /IM explorer.exeTOUCH_SCREEN "c:\program files\touchkit\touchkit.exe"PREP_PLAYER #H "C:\cMP_prep.bat" %FREFRESH "cpu-Z" "c:\program files\cpu z\cpuz.exe"
        
        in the cicsMemoryPlayer.pth file?
        
        Also exactly where do I add the
        -----------------------------------------
        In "c:\" copy this into batch file "cMP_prep.bat" and create an empty folder called "c:\tmpmusic" in your c: drive.
        -----------------------------------------
        
        Is it then on the drive which includes windows and cplay/cmp or on my fd?
        So I create a batch file called "cmp_prep.bat" with contents
        
        @echo offdel c:\tmpmusic\*.* /qcd c:\tmpmusiccopy %1 /yexit
        (sustituting fd for c)
        
        Is that correct? then run cmp, choose an album,then id temp file as the file to run in cplay. Do I have the logic correct?
        
        RE: Cics a few more questions - cics 09:47:08 03/08/09 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Cics a few more questions posted by theob on March 07, 2009 at 16:53:58
        
        "C:\" is referring to the main drive where Windows is installed. If your FD is not the OS then don't do what is suggested.
        
        What you suggesting will not give benefits. Are you getting better SQ by copying media to FD then cPlay? How have you connected the FD?
        
        Media is RAM loaded before playback so where the media is stored is not going to affect SQ. However a HDD has issues as mentioned in "SSD vs HDD" post and by removing it entirely or spinning it down, there's benefit.
        
        RE: Cics a few more questions - theob 10:59:32 03/08/09 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Cics a few more questions posted by cics on March 08, 2009 at 09:47:08
        
        With my current workaround of putting cue/music files on fd(powered by mobo) while my os is on hd gives me these benefits:
        1: I don't get the 'metallic issue' while running cplay @192 (running off hd does). Yes maybe I have a bad hd that needs replacing but if I can hold off on this expenditure or avoid it all together with this proposal then better yet.
        2: I get fast load of music into cplay (or into memory if you will) with a lot less glitches during 'background loading' (I earlier said none but it is a lot less) and that is a sonic benefit to me.
        3: I get some of that solidity to the sonics that you talk about but perhaps not as much as I would by running the os off ssd.
        So for me if I can automate what I do now by putting music on fd one at a time manually that gives me all of the above then that is significant to me. Plus its a stepping stone to then going os on fd as you outline. Although I would want to slow walk that 2nd step because of the BSOD risk you mention.
        I really appreciate your help on this and quite frankly I understand your priority of making cplay/cmp better w/o wasting your time on specific problems such as mine.
        I only suggested this because yes it helps me and since others have suggested it too, it might help them.
        So if I understand you, you believe I can do what I suggest but you believe it may not be worthwhile because I won't get the full benefit of ssd. But if it can work w/o any BSOD risk(and that is what I would like your comment on) I'll try it and see. And if it works, fine. If not I'll go back to my manual process and start looking for another drive (ssd or hd tbd).
        Again thanks for the help and I really do appreciate all you have done. Cplay 2.0b20 SSe4 b9 is an absolute wonder easily besting any analogue playback system I have had. In fact I had a buddy of mine visiting me from Florida during mid January in my home in Michigan. Needless to say I questioned his judgement on the timing (we had -20 degrees F and 10 inches of snow to greet him). But anyway he is an audiophile with a prestige analogue and digital system. He came to Michigan partly to see me and mostly to see his son who lives in Michigan. They both listened to my system and the son (who is a musician and is building a recording studio) reacted to hearing cplay/cmp by saying it was the closest thing he had heard to a live feed ....except maybe his dad's analogue system back in sunny Florida.
        
        Edits: 03/08/09
        
        ok it didn't work... - theob 15:37:45 03/08/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Cics a few more questions posted by theob on March 08, 2009 at 10:59:32
        
        ...didn't know that the system would not recognize my fd as a valid drive(I think anyway). I loaded the recommended cicsMemoryPlayer.pth into my c drive(in the cicsmemory folder) and the cMP_prep.bat file into my cicsmemory folder and the c:\tmpmusic onto my fd (with an h in place of the c)and I got through cmp initialization, I selected a music file and explorer opened but it did not recognize my fd drive when I tried to click on the file location. It just opened explorer for my d drive and when I clicked on anything it just hung up and I had to reboot.
        So to do it your recommended way I have to load windows and all my program files onto the flash drive and call it my c drive. Is that correct?
        
        Edits: 03/08/09
        
        RE: ok it didn't work... - cics 09:31:05 03/09/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: ok it didn't work... posted by theob on March 08, 2009 at 15:37:45
        
        I think your problem is related to your current HDD (esp metallic issue which always happens at load time - a task that requires HDD to come out of idle state and read sequentially). Rather look at replacing this drive which you can use as a backup.
        
        ok will do nt - theob 09:32:55 03/09/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: ok it didn't work... posted by cics on March 09, 2009 at 09:31:05
        
        .
        
        tried setting up tmpmusic on my c hd, this did not work either--- - theob 09:29:38 03/09/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: ok it didn't work... posted by theob on March 08, 2009 at 15:37:45
        
        ---same outcome. so unless I'm doing something wrong (which is always a possibility) I'm giving up. Even with tmpmusic on c hd I never get anything copied into it and cplay justs hangs up with a NOT RESPONDING diagnostic.
  - Speaking off the top of my head - rickmcinnis@dogwoodfabrics.com 10:54:33 03/07/09 (1)
    I would think the flash drive, though similar, is in a different league from the SSD. A bicycle and a motorcycle are closely related but very different. Plus, you go back to USB with the flash drive and that's another thing.
    
    Then, you would need some kind of device to turn the HDD on and off.
    
    THEN, cics said that he did not recommend mixing so there might be a conflict there.
    
    I have been in analogue land the last few days and still have not auditioned #20. I thought it would be a good idea to totally immerse myself with LP's and then see where we are with #20.
    
    I have not had a working turntable for the last year.
    
    One thing for sure, analogue is really noisy but it is magical that when the music begins you simply lose consciousness of the noise, and it seems you simply lose consciousness. It is a very strange effect.
    
    I, too, am intrigued by the move to SSD. One could keep a reasonable amount of music on the 256gB drive and then when they wanted a different selection easy enough to re-connect temporarily the old HDD and transfer/replace files.
    
    It all makes a certain amount of sense and if cics hears it, it is there.
    
    Theo, you have been looking for the next thing to try, why not?
    
    Bye,
    
    Rick McInnis
    - RE: Speaking off the top of my head - theob 12:07:32 03/07/09 (0)
      I am absolutely flabergasted and a lot humbled by cics response. But I am really gonna try to understand it and give it a shot. What a brilliant way to save the cost of a big ssd.
My feed back on building the cMP transport as per cics manual - hfavandepas 15:37:39 02/18/09 (5)
Hi all,
I learned much from cics manual and the postings on this forum. And I enjoy the cMP transport very much.
So I feel it’s about time to also contribute to this forum. Thus not only collecting info but also bringing some info.
On the software part I did all the XP optimizing as in cics manual. But I also added 2 extra and left one out.
-> Disabling the cd-rom autorun feature.
(tip from RME site)
With the autorun feature disabled it’s no problem to have a cd-rom installed in the PC transport (when the drive is powered separately by a second power supply). With the autorun feature disabled, the drive just sits there waiting quietly with no unwanted PCI-bus traffic every x seconds.
Go to the following registry items:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Cdrom\
Next, look towards the right side of the registry screen for "AutoRun" or "AutoPlay". Double click on this text then in the "value data" field, enter a "0" to disable Auto Insert Notification.
-> setting the PCI latency time for the soundcard.
(tip from Martin Walker, soundonsound)
In the bios the PCI latency time for the processor to pay attention to the PCI bus is raised to the max: 128.
When XP starts up, the driver of a PCI-device sets the time the PCI-device is allowed to transfer data over the PCI-bus. For the Julia card the PCI latency is set to 64.
You can check (and alter) these timings with tools from ESI pro
http://downloads.guru3d.com/PCI-Latency-Tool-3.1-v2-download-951.html
or with the tool from Mark Knutson:
http://www.mark-knutson.com/t3/_index.html
These tools also allow to cutback the time which other devices are allowed to transfer data on the PCI-bus (If there are any other on the PCI-bus)
I set the time which the soundcard is allowed for transferring data on the PCI-bus to max 248.
(may be 128 is enough. But video card manufactures tend to set there timings always to the max of 248. So I just copy their behavior without knowing if it is really necessary for a soundcard)
-> I don’t use the CPU EIST function.
Using the build-in drivers in XP, the EIST-function throttles CPU speed and Voltage according to processor load for saving energy and keeping the processor cool.
When al XP optimizations are done according too cics excellent manual, the DPE Latency checker reports a latency of only just 1 or 2 µs ! (on the GB-G31M-S2L mobo with no ESI Juli@ card and drivers installed yet).
Enabling the EIST function ads an extra 1 or 2 µs latency (according too the DPE Latency checker) With a passive CPU-cooler installed and having the processor under-clocked and under-volted, the processor stay’s cool in my setup (33 C / 92 F ) at a room temperature of 20 C / 68 F. So I see no reason for enabling the EIST function. Not using avoids the adding of an extra 1 or 2 µs latency. Sow I don’t use the EIST function. I disable the EIST-function in the BIOS and I also don’t use any XP energy–savings-policy’s. Thereby not using/activating the build-in XP-EIST-drivers.

So far on the software (XP) tuning part I did.
May be It’s good too state that I don’t know much about PC’s. Nor do I know much about electronics. So I’m not hindered for spreading nonsense by real knowledge. Sow may be cics can comment briefly on my post if there’s any nonsense in it , to prevent me from spreading ‘snake oil’ and ‘voodoo’ on this forum
ESI juli@ or LynxL22 dig i/o -> Lavry Black DA10 -> Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
- http://www.mark-knutson.com/t3/_index.html (Open in New Window)
Edits: