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Hi all,
Yet another question. Tonight while installing my new Jitterbug, I noticed that my PC has an S/PDIF output. My DAC has an S/PDIF input. What would be the advantages of using USB over optical S/PDIF?
Follow Ups:
Hi !
i like the usb to spdif converter approach a lot.
I do not have one high end but i still believe than when you have found one right then almost any decent dac will sound pleasant.
I remember the old times of the transport + dac approach.
Even some cheap dacs were sounding surprisingly good when fed with high quality spdif signals.
One of them, the Art DIO won a best of the show at one Ces.
You have to experiment a little.
However which dac are you using ?
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 10/08/16 10/08/16
Hi bg,
Thanks for the information. I have the Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus.
"i like the usb to spdif converter approach a lot."
So this is something I've been very curious about, as it would be the next logical upgrade to my system. However, I don't feel I have a complete picture/grasp of the USB converter topic/debate. My concern is that my DAC is already performing the cleanup operations that a USB to S/PDIF converter would perform, thus the pricey USB to S/PDIF converter would be redundant in my system. Any insights here from the Asylum community would be greatly appreciated.
Hi !
a lot depends on the execution quality of the usb input on your Cambridge dac.
Many people using usb to spdif converters have dacs with usb input.
This would be redundant but if they use them i guess they perceive an improvement with the converter in the chain.
You will never know unless you try.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 10/09/16
Duster and bg,
Thank you for the information. Still chewing on it.
This is my take on the matter. Other than Apple's built-in S/PDIF digital optical output, a Toslink output jack is not a common thing for PCs, so the use of a USB port is the only option for digital audio output in that case. Using a USB to S/PDIF converter still involves a USB port, so it's questionable if that approach is even possible to be superior vs. a USB to USB interface, whether asynchronous or not. I can understand how attractive it is for audiophiles to travel down the rabbit hole of USB when it can offer higher resolution playback vs. S/PDIF, but a listener must ask themselves how important it is to use a noisy USB port originally intended for computer peripherals rather than high-performance audiophile applications. The decision is not difficult when you consider the previous audiophile matter of Red Book CD vs. SACD. Just how important SACD vs. 44.1/16 Red Book CD was/is to a listener can be a good analogy in this case.
Prior to the onrush of the popularity of computer audio servers, configuring a high-performance Red Book CD digital front end was my only interest when it came to any digital audio application. SACD was never an interest of mine, but I fully understood why other listeners took it so seriously, and that perspective still continues in the realm of computer audio servers. So if hi-rez digital audio is a key factor, USB is the only way forward at this time. Compromise is a common thing in the audiophile world, and in this case, a compromised USB port vs. a lower resolution S/PDIF digital optical output are the only computer audio options, at this time.
From my perspective, even though it can be of great convenience, a computer is a necessary evil for audio purposes, not unlike how I considered digital CDs vs. vinyl albums back in the days when I refused to switch to digital audio vs. an old-school phono set-up. It wasn't until vinyl records became more and more awful sounding due to digital masters not transferring well to vinyl made me concede to even buying a CD player years after its introduction to the audio marketplace. Fortunately, digital audio is far more acceptable to my ear after many years of development, but I still have greater fondness towards the golden years of vinyl vs. digital audio in any form, but there's no going back now that the cat is out of the bag.
In a nutshell, while my attitude and approach is against the prevailing trends, I simply want a Red Book quality digital signal to exit my computer as straightforward as possible via S/PDIF digital optical, then optimize the Toslink interface by the use of a Monarchy Audio DIP (Digital Interface Processor) for jitter reduction and then conversion to an S/PDIF digital coaxial interface, or AES/EBU digital interface, which can be used with any DAC that features the corresponding digital input jacks. Other than an effective power line conditioner, an audiophile-quality power cord for my iMac computer, and a Lifatec Silflex glass Toslink cable, I pay much more attention to what happens to the audio signal after it leaves a computer than potential audiophile benefits of hi-rez audio via USB.
Hi !
almost all decent usb to spdif converters do not rely on noisy pc usb power to function. This should be a basic requirements for a converter.
However for the ones that do not have a dc socket you can use a usb power supply like the one i have from Teradak (see link).
And the very best ones provide even complete galvanic isolation from the pc. A very nice thing to have.
I have converters from Gustard and Melodious and using the AES/EBU outs i am quite pleased with both.
The nice thing is that changing pc upstream from a powerful tower to a very cheap laptop (all with Win 7) has no impact on the sound.
The sound is always very very similar.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 10/09/16 10/09/16 10/09/16
beppe61,
Your perspective regarding an external PSU for a USB interface is well-taken. Based on my experience, the USB DC power output sounds no better than a cheap 5V switch-mode wall wart. The next step up was a basic 5V regulated linear wall wart, while an audiophile-quality PSU made the most difference for the better. I'm also interested in the tendency of USB digital signal output quality in itself when compared to other digital interface formats, regardless of USB power supply configurations.
Hi !
thanks for confirming my sensations about the importance of a good quality (i.e. not noisy) psu.
The usb to spdif converter has, among other things, also the duty to set the clock for the dac downstream. The better the power supply to the clock the better its stability i understand.
I remember that in many cd players one common mod was a better regulator stage for the clock circuit.
Unfortunately i do not have a very high quality converter and neither a high resolving system because i would like to verify one point.
I think that if the converter is very high quality, the resulting sound quality should be quite independent from the actual pc used as a source.
Another idea would be to try to test the digital signal out of the converter with some instruments.
But i have no idea how to do it. I think that with the right test signals something could show up.
Maybe there is out there a converter particularly well built and not very expensive.
One of the best instead is The Berkeley Audio Usb alpha.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 10/11/16 10/11/16 10/11/16
Optical SPDIF is usually called Toslink. Toslink is inferior to coaxial SPDIF because it is the same signal run through optical converters which reduce the bandwidth slightly. This reduction in bandwidth means that the downstream converter doesn't catch the transitions as exactly, meaning it can't recover the clock exactly. This is one kind of jitter. Many high end gurus will tell you never to use Toslink for this reason. However, the effect of this transmission-induced jitter is quite likely moot. The DAC will average the timing signal over enough cycles so there is little or no detectable jitter-caused distortion in the analog output. Any device accepting Toslink input knows what it has to deal with, so probably takes sufficient measures to deal with the apparent jitter in the transitions.
I myself have been using Toslink connection from my computer for high rez audio now for about 5 years and I have always thought it sounded fine. However I have recently decided to eliminate all Toslink connections just because they are technically inferior.
Meanwhile I had also decided long ago NEVER to use USB. USB comes from electrically noisy computers and there are no end to the technical problems it causes. I ban computers-as-such (with their constant updates and spying on me) from my listening area. So instead I've used ethernet based devices to bring music to my listening room, first Sonos, now Transporter. Unfortunately IMV these are still available but new ethernet-based high rez players are very expensive. USB has become the mainstream for more audiophiles.
USB is an extremely jittery data delivery system designed for computer peripherals. However, the special Isochronous mode makes it work as if it were a clean synchronous system. Just as with ethernet, there is a buffer on the receiving side which fills up with data and then clocks it out. In theory, neither ethernet nor properly-used USB will actually induce jitter, though they are made of jitter. I'm not sure if this is so iron clad however, I still wonder if jitter leaks through in various small ways. FWIW the lowest jitter device I have right now seems to be a 25 year old CD player outputting SPDIF.
I prefer the simplicity of SPDIF in coax or AES/EBU which is almost the same thing in higher voltage balanced to the packet based system. With SPDIF you just plug it in and you get lock. It hasn't changed in 30 years. No software updates to worry about.
I agree that S/PDIF digital coaxial is superior vs. S/PDIF Toslink, but sometimes there's no choice about the matter...
The Xfinity X1 digital CATV DVR box is essentially a computer that requires a boot-up process in order to function. It even reboots automatically overnight to transmit/refresh data. The audio options do not include remote-controlled line-level stereo outputs as per usual. The only options are fixed output line-level, HDMI digital audio interface, or S/PDIF Toslink output.
Hi Charles. Missed you at the symphony. As you know there are a lot of very good devices that isolate your dac from the computer like the Intona galvonic isolater or the Regen. I amcurrently using a usb converter ahead of my dac and will shortly be feeding my dac with an HDMI I2S feed. I currently am using an xlr feed. I have never hear detter sound anywhere. I stream everything from 16/44 on Tidal to 24/192 on Classicsonlinehd.
Alan
Raspberry Pi's are cheap! Less than $100.
BTW- All Music Streamers are computers.
Cut-Throat
Ah. My DAC implements asynchronous USB, so the DAC controls the data rate. With S/PDIF the DAC can't control data rate. Think I got it.
An asynchronous USB interface should be considered vs. an ordinary non-asynchronous USB interface.
It does not mean an S/PDIF interface is inferior to an asynchronous USB interface. In fact, some folks prefer S/PDIF vs. asynchronous USB.
See link:
As your link to the AudioPhilleo, a USB to SPDIF converter.
Might it be that people buy this type of converters not because they favor SPDIF over USB as you are suggesting but because their DAC have legacy input only?
The Well Tempered Computer
Edits: 10/05/16
The OP mentioned his computer features a built-in S/PDIF output jack (I don't know if he means S/PDIF digital coaxial or S/PDIF digital optical). To the best of my knowledge, the signal path of the S/PDIF output will have nothing to do with the functionality of a USB port which would indeed be involved if a USB to S/PDIF converter were used for the application.
Hi Duster,
Thanks for the link. I'll check it out tonight. BTW, it is an optical S/PDIF that would go directly from the PC's motherboard to the DAC. Might as well get a Toslink cable and experiment.
You might be interested in the excellent Lifatec Silflex glass Toslink cable. It's an outstanding digital optical cable -- both regular Toslink and Mini-Toslink connector options are available. The Lifatec cable is what I use for the digital optical output jack of my iMac computer workstation system.
See link:
Duster,
Thanks for the recommendation. I'll give this cable a look.
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