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In Reply to: RE: CA posted by Cut-Throat on June 23, 2016 at 09:45:56
Roon doesn't do anything I want to do that I can't already do. With SW I "own".I never look at my "interface device" while listening, I really don't care what it displays after I tell it what to play. I guess I'd care more if I didn't know what I was playing, but I still wouldn't look at it. Usually my eyes are closed, I have a crappy attention span as it is. Regardless, I'm listening not reading.
[Edit: for grammar, just can't get it out right...]
Edits: 06/23/16 06/23/16Follow Ups:
Using LMS, if you have multiple cd collections, say Billy Joel's Greatest Hits Vol I&II, the LMS server will capture up all of it in one set (sometimes). I often experienced problems with multiple versions in my library, sometimes inexplicably, one or two sings would have different tag data and would not be incorporated into one album. If I wanted to have a multi-cd set more easily accesible via the menus I would have to load them as separate albums. The larger my collection got, the harder is was to manage those outliers.
I always loved the ability to set up a playlist in LMS with selections from my own library mixed with individual tracks from Tidal/Spotify/MOG/Rhapsody (I used them all at one point or another). No other server software made that as easy as LMS. Until Roon. Now, Roon does the tagging for me. When I am building a playlist, I can easily find tracks in my own collection, as well as on Tidal with one search and add it. Roon will combine multi-cd sets for easier visual browsing, but also shows the collections on separate "sheets" so you can still browse all the tracks by cd: i.e., cd1 cd2, etc. Roon shows when you have multiples of a track and lets you toggle between the versions. At this point I have over 2500 albums and more than 29000 tracks in my collection. That amount of content is better served by the additional graphical content and metadata available in Roon than by using a simple list format like LMS. The more you use the interface in Roon, the more you appreciate what it can do to help you select music. If you always just pick an album, cue it up and play it like an LP or a cd, maybe you wont appreciate the power of Roon. Personally, I like to read the liner notes and always did. But for listening, I usually do just listen with no media device except to control playback.
My prediction is that Abe will be the next to fall; you wait, in another month he'll start singing the praises of Roon. Like all new paradigms, it takes awhile to adjust. For those that keep crustily protesting without actually trying to use the software, you are only limiting yourselves.
Actually my favorite use of LMS was with 'Smartmix' (A pluggin)... It has quit working this month due to Spotify purchasing TEN.... They eliminated the API use for TIDAL and others....Does Roon have anything like Smartmix? -- It was how I listened on a Daily basis. But I guess even if Roon had a Smartmix, not being able to stream Spotify would probably be a Show Stopper.
Cut-Throat
Edits: 06/23/16
It is the current auto-playlist. It looks at your collection and makes selections a track at a time. I haven't checked to see if they got it working with your tidal selections yet, but that was on their to-do list. You can se an auto-leveling so that you don't have large changes in volume when the Radio function is on. I expect them to be improving it over the next year, as there is a lot of demand. It is interesting to look at the Roonlabs community forum where they have a "requested features" section. FWIW, you can join the forum without even purchasing a license to the product. I did before I bought an annual subscription. I didn't have an extra $500 in January. But I will buy a lifetime membership sometime this year.
I have yet to play with the Roon Radio feature. Do they simply link to various internet radio stations? Do they try to choose higher bit-rate stations? The audio quality of internet radio is usually not very good. Your thoughts on it as it relates to Roon? Thanks Paul.
"Internet Radio" in the menu lets you add urls to your favorite Internet stations. I have several SOMAFM stations, KPLU and KEXP. The metadata provided by the station doesn't linkback to the Roon servers on those, so there are no hyperlinks to read about the artists as the radio station plays but you can see song/title info. The advantage here is that you can get MP3 streams into Roon and out through HQPlayer and you have to do your own searching/selection. They don't have a menu of suggestions. It is largely a courtesy functionality requested by the community.
The "Roon Radio" function is like Pandora. It looks at various metadata associated with your collection and chooses selections to play if your playlist is empty. It is turned on by default, but is easily toggled off. You can use up-down thumb to teach the program as you go. So far the Radio function is limited to your own collection, although future Tidal integration is a priority for them. I use it sometimes and it works fine. Nothing shocking has come up so far like the death metal I got on "Beat It" radio on Pandora. You can use Tidal automated playlists using the Tidal screen from the menu. If you want curated music in a genre, it works pretty well. Dinner Jazz, etc.
You have way more tunes than I do, I only have in the 10k range.But funny you should mention the multi-disc set or "different version" things. Maybe we crossed-posted or cross-thought, but I agree that it takes some...experience...to get LMS to do that the way you want. It *is* doable with appropriate tagging/LMS setup, but definitely not exactly transparent/obvious. Because, you know how excellent the LMS documentation and in-app "help" is...
I'm just not a sophisticated user I guess. I only want to select and play *my* owned albums/tunes, if I want to read the notes or LP covers for some reason, I pull them. When I stream, it is background, and I'm usually in and out of the room and barely care what's playing, usually. I do notice if I like it or it sounds good though.
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of LMS and championed it for years. I bought my first SB3 in 2006, then had a Transporter and eventually 3 more SBTs. All are still in service here. I've used it and tweaked it and loaded skins for a Nokia N800 used as a remote among other things over the years, which at the time predated the iphone and any other mobile control for a music server. It was state-of-the-art. But it just isn't anymore.
Roon is where it's at. And will be going forward. And it is $10/month annually, which is less than some people pay for Netflix.
But Roon doesn't do anything new that I want to do. That is the bottom line. That it isn't limited to a specific type of platform or even listening "style" is its big deal, and will be the reason for much of its popularity.
I would never buy a lifetime subscription to anything. Especially something like this. They'll be owned by somebody else soon enough if they're really that great (as determined by the *real* market, not enthusiasts....see Squeezebox in case studies...), and your "contract" will be essentially worthless. "Lifetime" of the company is what it'll be.
You are as enthusiastic re Roon now as you were re LMS some time ago. That should tell you something. I am "old", so don't mind me, just reminding you of what you already know.
I wasn't trying to infer *you* didn't know LMS, I was being tongue in cheek, it is typical of lots of Logitech stuff re virtually useless documentation beyond the absolute beginner level.
is that it provides a very usable front-end for HQPlayer. That is my primary reason for using it, because HQP really does sound better than anything else I've used. And by a long-measure. It makes some older cds I used to think unlistenable absolute treats. One example: Bruce Hornsby & the Range, The Way it Is. Flat, strident and nearly unlistenable for all those years.
I take your point about the lifetime sub; in this case its a gamble against will I buy more than 4 annual subs or just make one $500 purchase. If the company lasts more than 5 years, I saved money.
Thanks for being reasonable to different POVs (no small thing sometimes...).
I am sure very many people have very many excellent reasons for using Roon. I just don't happen to be one of those people. I don't do any transcoding (only native format [via FLAC] of my own discs), and am anal about tagging and bloat my FLACs with info (sometimes pics) I might want to know/see, tag stuff my own way so *I* can find it in my own strange way, etc. Maybe when I have a DAC that can play all the fancier formats I'll have a different opinion...
And being in Canada, the U.S. disc covers are often not the same as those here, and I often pick by the cover I'm used to (I scan all the covers myself to make sure). Plus I often have different disc versions of the same title and the ones I want to play are often quite obscure, hard to find any info even at discogs = manual entry for a large part.
Roon doesn't do anything I want to do that I already can't. With SW I "own".Just curious to know, what software do you own and use?
I'm still discovering and learning Roon on my 60-day trial period. Haven't made up my mind if I want to buy it.
As a 'visual person' I do look at my remote control interface device (iPad in my case) as I navigate and choose albums, songs, create playlists, and add to the queue.
I also scroll thru the album art rapidly to aid me in finding albums that I want to play. It's often quicker for me that way vs typing as I easily recognize albums by their cover art.
Once I have my selections made, I just sit back and listen. If I get the urge to listen to additional tunes, I'll pickup the iPad and make more selections.
So the visual interaction with the player and ease of navigation are very important to me. Otherwise, why bother with the convenience of computer based audio in the first place? I'm not one to play the same 1/2 dozen tunes over and over again through a stripped down player just to hear minuscule tweak differences in my setup. Music library management and navigation are hugely important to me.
Just my 2-cents.
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I'm using iPeng.
Yes, I am also very visual when choosing my music, I certainly do often pick by the album pic, that is from within an artist's albums. But that's when adding to the playlist, or choosing the album to play.
After that, I don't really look at the display, except to see what's next. I mean, I don't need any more info. Sometimes I check to make sure I'm playing the version of the album I want when adding to the playlist, if they have the same pic.
But during playing, I'm not looking at the gear or interface device. I don't need suggestions or lyrics (used to get that anyway) or other stuff, I tagged my FLACs with what I might need/want to know.
I only Judge it based on ease of use. If I want to look at pictures of the Band, I can use Google Image etc.
Cut-Throat
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