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In Reply to: RE: Cost/price of a "generic" Audiostream Syrah-like server posted by Frihed89 on June 19, 2016 at 23:50:40
You could use any low powered computer or even purchase one that doesn't use a fan for the CPU. You could then modify Windows 10 Pro with Fidelizer Pro and or Audiophile Optimizer. Purchase JRiver Media and JRemote. Purchase dbPoweramp if you want that. All of this can be done for much less than $6500, but you have to do a little work. It is also very easy to assemble your own computer.Computers are low profit items for the manufacturers. It can't be compared to what a small high end audio company builds.
Remember, the dealer takes a 40-50% of the retail price. Playback Designs also has to provide service after the sale. And on and on.
Here is an example of something a little more fancy:
Edits: 06/20/16 06/20/16Follow Ups:
I know that, but how much of a computer do you need to read audio files from a hard disk (internal or external) and send the digital signal to an external Dac. Couldn't a prototype easily be designed from the bottom-up by an EE, using readily available parts? I suspect a non-switching power supply would be the biggest part of the cost. The I/O boards already exist. The rest is processing and controlling from a PC point of view. Surely this must not be rocket science.
It's not that hard. You will see other companies offering Server products that are more affordable as time goes on.
Unfortunately, as you pointed out in another post, the business model for audio companies is completely different from the business model for PCs. There is always going to be a markup of 3x or 4x the cost of commodity products if you expect a customized and supported product. This isn't specific to products catering to the high-end audio market, it applies equally well to any low volume market segment.
I would go a step further. If there isn't a large markup, then there would be little reason to believe that one is purchasing a product from a viable business. Consequently, if one is expecting support, one is likely to be sadly disappointed if one got a "bargain".
If one is not budget constrained and lacks time and/or computing skills, then it can make sense to spend one's money on these products. However, if one is budget constrained and still lacks the time/skills, then perhaps one would get better sound for the bucks spending it on a DAC, amplification, speakers, etc... It would be interesting to see reviews that explored these tradeoffs.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
There seems to be at least 2 approaches.
First are those with genuine hardware and software expertise, who try to arrive at a nicely made package costing $1000 to say $8000. A user is locked into a dedicated system for his/her purposes but will know that some kind of holistic approach has been taken by the propreiters. The Plyback Designs rig falls into this category.
Second, there are those who try to conduct software 'optimisation' of nuc type of computers in fairly cheaply made 'low end China type' cases. They seem to be selling these for $1000 to $2000. We are talking of the approach of using a Convent Garden PC or laptop, with 3 to 4 different kinds of OS modification audio suites to make the device 'sound good'. There will be little or no improvement on the hardware side except by way of claims of resonance control or whatever that cannot be challenged.
Most inmates with any kind of scientific or engineering education and training should know that, with the latter approach, there is no clarity of what is going on with the operating system or how this may be modfied. The user is unkikely to learn anything by using this approach and will be locked into a cycle of paying more for any 'software upgrades'.
In a free world the inmate chooses but unfortunately not all will be informed.!
First are those with genuine hardware and software expertise, who try to arrive at a nicely made package costing $1000 to say $8000. A user is locked into a dedicated system for his/her purposes but will know that some kind of holistic approach has been taken by the propreiters. The Plyback Designs rig falls into this category.I think you're very confused again.
The Playback Design Syrah Server at $6500 is based the "Convent Garden PC" NUC motherboard.... just like the Nimitra Server, with commodity Windows 10 Pro and some optimizations. Add River Media Center, and commonly available dBpoweramp to the Syrah. All for a mere $6500!
Not much different than the $1395 Nimitra Server you are talking about also based on your "Convent Garden PC", commodity Windows 10 Pro with some optimizations, but the former is $6500! The Nimitra is $1395.
You're doing your best to discredit Windows X because you have some 'history' with him. But anyone can see right through your misinformation.
Edits: 06/28/16
You have no idea what you are on about.
"If one is not budget constrained and lacks time and/or computing skills, then it can make sense to spend one's money on these products. However, if one is budget constrained and still lacks the time/skills, then perhaps one would get better sound for the bucks spending it on a DAC, amplification, speakers, etc... It would be interesting to see reviews that explored these tradeoffs."
That is a good point Tony. Definitely something for me to think about in my future reviews.
For the $1200, you get:Switching power supply
Just about the most tinny ssd, never mind what the computer testers say
ssd filter, which is not very good for SQ
One can do better for less. Or splash out on a STEC ssd or similar.
If one really wants to minimise the impact of background services and processess, forget networks, AV software and firewall, don't go on the web, disable all OS security not needed for audio, disable DEP, forget about fancy graphics and don't use an AV player that writes loads of registry entries and creates loads of cache folders, and above all learn how to slim OS oneself and how each step affects sound quality. This way there is no need to use non transparent software that is billed as universally 'optimising'.
And pay a lot more attention on how to separately power PC, SSDs and USB boards with genuinely good power supplioes..
Edits: 06/20/16
the configuration of the player and the streaming hardware are crucial elements and it is not just a case of buying this package or this device.
I forgot that aspect, because I buy CDs or download non-MP3 music files.
Thanks for mentioning it. I don't "get" streaming.
No, by streaming I mean the configuration of software and hardware that handles your music file inputs to the computer. For example, the buffer size of your XMOS interface can change SQ significantly. Yet many devices omit this functionality. Equally, your player may have a buffer length setting, and this affects SQ also.
I see little reason for paying for a streaming service, since all I need to do to get quality classical and light music is to connect to BBC Radio on my non-audio PC system which is web security equipped.
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