|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
31.153.91.166
The use of a good quality fuse can improve SQ.
I recently ordered bunches of HiFiTuning fuses and the much cheaper Aucharm Ag alloy fuses. They are Fast Blos
Measuring the 1A sample, I get, at 1kHz
Aucharm 2.2 uH and 0.46 R
HiFiTuning Gold 0.4 uH and 0.13 R
Quite a difference and in time, I shall measure and listen to the 2 and 3A fuses in my DACs.
Follow Ups:
The use of a good quality fuse can improve SQ.
It's funny how, when offbeat issues such as fuses come up in audio circles, folk invariably hit you with a bit of cod psychology then ask, "Have you any figures to back up that claim?". Here, amusingly, we have figures but no-one commenting on them though we have had some cod psychology.
To my chagrin, I heard a difference when I tried swapping the stock fuse in my power amp with an AMR "audio-but-not-silly-money" one. As I don't know why or how a fuse should affect SQ, I welcome pertinent data.
I agree that opening time versus percent of rated current is a key parameter in choosing a fuse but it tells you nothing about how it performs at average operating currents and less about its dynamic performance (peaks).
Audio devices are typically supplied via two or more fuses in series - a high-current one in the distribution box (these days usually an MCB), another, in the UK at least, in the plug top (ceramic, three to 13 amps) and a third in the PSU of a value and type determined by an engineer with a lawyer and an accountant looking on. Some amplifiers have fuses on the LT side. The average audio system connects three or four devices in parallel to a single mains outlet, perhaps with a bevy of other devices on the same ring.
Fuses everywhere you look, all behaving in a non-linear way under normal conditions. (With slo-blow fuses, non-linear by clever design.) It's years since I read about fuse manufacture but I remember that they are NOT simple devices. I'd suggest that every fuse safely designed out of a system is potentially a free tweak.
"It's funny how, when offbeat issues such as fuses come up in audio circles, folk invariably hit you with a bit of cod psychology then ask, Have you any figures to back up that claim?"
What was offered up were a couple measurements with no correlation to fuse operating performance or a subjective review of SQ. In other words the post had no substance. It's like saying I measured two lamp cords today. One was 3 feet and black in color, the other was 8 feet and white. So?
I agree that opening time versus percent of rated current is a key parameter in choosing a fuse but it tells you nothing about how it performs at average operating currents and less about its dynamic performance (peaks).
Neither did the OP's measured parameters. In fact, they told us nothing at all.
What was offered up were a couple measurements with no correlation to fuse operating performance or a subjective review of SQ.
But it was a beginning, however modest. I've not prior seen even static data (as here) for "audio" fuses and, until recent experience suggested I was wrong, would have derided the notion that there were such things. So, partly in an attempt at good manners, I tried to comment constructively.
Neither did the OP's measured parameters.
I was addressing G-Squared's (perfectly proper) point. What fmak's measurements told us was beside that point though, sadly, I didn't stop others scoring cheap points of their own rather than, just for once, keeping quiet.
D
but seriously, I have long eliminated as many in line mains fuses as possible and have opted for either the European plug or the US socket system in my main audio system.Modern mcbs and rcbs are so sensitive that they afford the necessary protection without going over the top with multiple high reactance fuses inline.
Some of the responses clearly demonstratae the lack of any understanding of how complex devices can affect SQ in audio systems. Sad but yet such posts keep on being made. If a ground bus bar plus a few cables costing hundreds of dollars can affect SQ, why shouldn't anuything thing else that is inline with a mains transformer? Such inmates have clearly not heard of snubbers or their effects.
Edits: 06/15/16
I have long eliminated as many in line mains fuses as possible
Me too though I suspect it's easier to do so safely under the UK's ring main/ fused plug system. I have two audio-dedicated mains circuits, one for digital, the other for analogue. Though each has a fuse in the plug top only, the systems comply with the Regs. Even so, upgrading the fuse on the analogue side did make a perceptible SQ difference.
and have opted for either the European plug or the US socket system in my main audio system.
Curious as to why. Both strike me as, at best, no better than the UK design, esp if you upgrade plugs and sockets.
Modern mcbs and rcbs are so sensitive that they afford the necessary protection without going over the top with multiple high reactance fuses inline.
Agreed. Is any other domestic device typically fused at both ends of the mains cable? And that despite audio kit being the only ones whose performance is (arguably) degraded by fuses.
are not fused. They are easier to clean and the connection systems are better. The 'best' MK plugs are a pain to connect and clean properly.
I still use the ring main system but isolate using ultra isolation transformers with ac regenerators.
I don't have to solder bridge wires as in the case of UK plugs to get rid of having 2 fuses in series for components.
I don't have to solder bridge wires as in the case of UK plugs
Got it. Same cat, different swing. I fit a fuse in one plug top only (as it complies with Regs), hard-wire via this and that to IEC sockets and omit or by-pass fuses on the devices. Good sound, good and cheap.
I agree re MK plugs and use MS HD Power Plugs instead - better metal, much easier & bigger connectors but reasonable prices. I also agree re isolators - big SQ difference as well as good for safety.
In fact, it's all so audiophillic it makes your eyes water.
Do you understand electronics ?
Inductance and capacitance matter when you are pulling current. Without current flow neither one of them will do shit. Their effect is a function of impedance.
I remember when Heathkit decided to put the speaker fuses inside the feedback loop because at extremely low frequencies the intermittent heating of the fuse element would cause odd order harmonic distortion.
No, what you do is put the fuses where they are not in the audio path at all. And if you are in a DAC you aren't pulling enough current to make any difference. Only in amps is where this comes in. And rarely.
In amps, the fuses need to be placed where they do not affect the sound. For example if using common collector configuration with a complementary pair with the output coming off the emitters, you can fuse the collectors all you want. But if you put them on the emitters it could affect the sound.
It is a matter of proper design, and this is why some companies achieve.
The fuse should not matter. If it does the engineer screwed up.
Know what ? Analog engineers are extremely hard to come by these days, worldwide. Companies keep throwing money at the old geezers and they pick and choose their jobs. And the old geezers would not mind hiring some new talent but cannot find it. They don't really want to work anymore they got it made, but then here is ten grand and they got the design doe in two hours and the prototype made in two days. That is pretty hard to pass up.
Bottom line, I don't know how to tell you how to learn electronics if you want to. It is extremely hard to teach real electronics. The concepts of current and all that are so foreign to most people, and they have no background i science, at least in this country. Even in college, it's like everyone wants to be an investment banker.
Electronics is VERY hard to teach. I don't even try anymore.
Yes, but even if it doesn't make any sense at all, some here will hear a difference.
Cut-Throat
.
Opening time versus percent of rated current? That's how fuses are typically measured.
These things don't affect SQ like reactance as in a cable. I guess holder contact impedance comes in also.
Thirty or more years ago, Stan Curtis (audio electronics engineer and audio journalist) carried out measurements on contact impedance and concluded that the best contacts are those that support surface 'piercing'.
I replaced all my HiFiTuning fuses (After trying all highend fuses) with industrial fuses. So long for audiophile fuses.Regards,
Windows X
Edits: 06/14/16
not sure what that would be.
thanks,
industrial fuses
There are no such things as industrial fuses
Thanks for clearing up that bit of misinformation.
I have 'mid-fi' fuses, because I cannot tell the difference between the High-end fuses.
Cut-Throat
There are no such things as industrial fuses by definition, Some of the convent garden ones have high Rs and Ls at 120Hz, which is the lowest frequency available in my instruments.
You might want to look at this.http://www.littelfuse.com
Regards,
Windows X
Edits: 06/14/16
Something like buzzman or littelfuse for an example.
Regards,
Windows X
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: