|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
69.165.140.237
In Reply to: RE: New F-1 U208 latest XMOS isolated USB to SPDIF IF posted by Sordidman on May 17, 2016 at 12:19:33
(sorry if that's a dumb Q)
Are you supposed to power it via the USB connection? Can the microRendu do that? i.e. is it a general purpose USB port on the microRendu, with power, or does Sonore presume an audiophile/external power supply method (or both)?
Definitely in my price range. :)
Follow Ups:
No other buyer of this board is powering it any other way to my knowledge. Not sure if there's a spot on the board where one even could wire in a PSU.
I do know that most all the boards that are shipping now do not have the I2s pin connector pre-soldered on the board. If I was an I2s user, I definitely would not buy this unit. But then, I suck at soldering....
Of course I haven't tested tons of other boxes, but the only one that I've heard people say is even getting close to this thing is the YellowTec PUC-lite.
And, no way I'm buying a $1000+ SPDIF IF....
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
So if you provide a good PS for the microRendu, e.g. say one of the ultracap ones since that's what we're talking about lately, it will "carry through" to the i/f conversion device. Considering those involved and JS's "obsession" with reducing PS noise/effects, I'm going to guess that the power at the USB output connector is pretty clean.
But I wonder how "powerful" it is. Maybe it's not "treated" to the level of the power used on-board the mR...I guess it's reasonable that it wouldn't be, leave that up to the receiving device. Have you noticed anything in this regard, or is it sufficiently good that there's nothing to notice?
Being able to use the mR PS is actually a decent consideration, compared to perhaps having to purchase/provide a separate PS (another box!) for some other i/f conversion devices.
Hi,
I haven't noticed anything, with any SQ issues.
I am assuming that the normal USB power coming out of the microRendu is fine & clean as is the USB signal, - (especially with the Regen tech built into the microRendu).
I assume that it doesn't have additional power requirements beyond what the HiFace series would, or my APL that I had previously. I was also looking at the Pro3a (& now Pro4a) models that folks were saying don't need to be powered, (but Pro3a) does have the capability to be powered external via 5v adapter.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Hi and sorry again if i jump in.
I see you mentioning the YellowTec PUC-lite.
Do you have direct experience of this unit ?
There is a guy here selling this unit.
Thanks a lot.
Kind regards,
bg
Thanks for re-mentioning that unit. As you know I'm a big AES/EBU fan, and if the F-1 had that, my order would be already in... They do mention AES/EBU on the F-1 page Estat linked to, but I don't really understand in what context (besides the 24/192 limitation), I think it said "capable"...DIY?[As for Yellowtec, I feel stupider after visiting their website. Talk about a dumbed-down "millennial" site, no real hard info, just pics and talk to assuage the ignorant and insecure. You can't even be sure that what you asked to see is what you're seeing (PUC 2 or Lite version), it's so superficial and mixed up. So I don't actually know *anything* yet...still "researching".] Edit: so it includes a split USB cable because of its power requirements, not handy when not using a computer as a source. That's what I thought: it *needs* the 2xUSB port connection to operate at all, I would prefer a separate "proper" external PS jack if I have to have one.
Edits: 05/18/16 05/18/16
Hi !
i have read some quite positive reviews about the PUC2 Lite and full version with XLR analog outs and having some dacs with AES/EBU i was very tempted. Then i read again the positive comment here above and i decided to buy one 2nd hand from a guy here in Norway.
In general i really do not like at all units that has to rely only on the low 5VDC of the usb bus. My ideal solution is a usb dac that uses only the usb signal and has a DC socket for 12-15 VDC so that i can provide clean and strong voltage.
However as i said the reviews are quite positive and some pictures show professional quality of execution.
From what i understand the best use is a usb to AES/EBU converter.
Not that i really needed it.
I read too much reviews lately, and i have to say one thing.
I am sincerely amazed by the quality of today equipment. Always is very expensive but the board are so beautiful that look like a work of electronic art.
In particular i love smd execution. Wonderful.
Speaking of the F-1 the same brand proposed at about 3-400 USD a different version with also AES/EBU out.
I think it is called SU-1 (see link).
Given the great performance of the F-1 i guess this is on the same level.
Good luck with your search !
Kind regards,
bg
Thanks. That's the one Ivan also mentioned, and I'm keeping my eye out for it.
Lack of AES/EBU output is not at all a deal-breaker for me though, it is just the most successful of the S/PDIF variations with the gear I have. Plus big signals and connectors....arrrrgh. Like you said before, this USB audio gadget stuff is changing practically daily, and performance that cost a lot a very short time ago is becoming very affordable.
For ~double the price of the F-1, it does have a case, the AES/EBU output, a built-in PS (not sure if that's a "pro" or not...), and some other stuff (I think) I don't care about. [The tiny F-1 could sneak into Canada much easier than the SU-1 too, they seem to be very lax re stuff from China/Hong Kong/Taiwan IME.]
http://www.jplay.info/#!blank-2/fbb2v
Thanks for the info. Wish the pics were larger. Looks nicely assembled.I wonder what "slimmer" means in the comparison of I2S vs AES/EBU sonics? Thinner-sounding? Probably...I think he is saying the AES/EBU sound is "fatter" and weightier.
Edits: 05/21/16
less bloated? full bodied?
Taobao price is $50 less.
A positive contribution this thread.
Thanks, very helpful.
People not talking about what *you* want to talk about? When you want to? Start your own forum. With your free hand that is. Let's see how it goes.
do you not understand?
your posts are almost off the mark or negative , thus breaking up discussion.
To inmate Sordidman's comment:
"Yeah, - reprogramming to the correct pin-outs on I2s is awesome"
You replied somewhat arrogantly:
"This is not necessary for the latest units and arose from a mistake in a post by Jesus which was corrected long ago. Somehow Gustard missed it and particularly AudioGD which persisted with the mistake."
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/15/158173.html
What 'Jesus' has to do with it I don't know
Then above you post a VERY HELPFUL REVIEW, THANK YOU!!! of the Singxer SU-1 where the author goes to great lengths to explain that there IS NOT OFFICIAL STANDARD for I2S over HDMI:
"HDMI LVDS I2S/DSD output"
"For many users, its specifications are headache, as there exists no standards."
And goes on to explain the the value of the dip switch solution by Syngxer and all of the problems and differences one may encounter with the lack of standards. This is a full eight paragraphs or more and over half of the review!
http://www.jplay.info/#!blank-2/fbb2v
So...
To finalize, the link to the review was VERY helpful, thank you fmak!
Your reply to me when I ask about the so-called 'standard' you had alluded to was, dare I say it?
Less so.
And we still have no idea what Jesus has to do with it. :-)
ignorance
Great question.
I don't pretend to know the answer but...
My Audio-GD Master 7 and Master 11 DACs both currently uses the Amanero card for USB > I2S conversion and those who have swapped out the Amanero for the F-1 in my brand of DAC claim considerable improvement with the F-1 board installed.
However...
In the Audio-GD product line, great attention (and weight) is paid to issues of Power Supply. And, the designer powers the Amanero card from one of the many linear power supplies inside the DAC. The F-1, OTOH, is powered by the USB source.
Further complicating this issue would be the use of a USB 'gadget' like the REGEN, because then the internal (or external) F-1 would then be powered by the REGEN, not the USB source, and totally dependent on the REGEN's power supply(stock or after-market linear PS).
So at the end of the day, it would appear to be all about 'F#$%ing Gadgets', as inmate Cut-Throat would call them. :-)
Yes, I was wondering about that, I asked Sordidman about the microRendu-> F-1 connection re PS.
I guess you could always disconnect the PS on the SU-1 *if* you were just going to use the RCA/BNC S/PDIF output. Or could you? At first I thought the SU-1 would essentially be a larger F-1 that's "wired out", with additional circuitry to fire up the AES/EBU output and accomodate the I2S/HDMI connector signal selection. I have no idea how it is. IMO it would be a good idea to have jumpers to separate the non-F1 circuitry PS from the F-1 circuitry PS so you could have the option of powering from the USB bus if that was suitable.
to my DAC's S/PDIF or l2S input I would certainly want the new SU-1 with it's separate, hopefully somewhat decent power supply.
OTOH, if the input is from a Regen with UpTone's new linear PS or a uRendu with an equally good linear PS, perhaps one might be better served with the F-1 which takes its power from the USB bus.
If I'm way off base here, please feel free to correct me.
Hi again !
i have followed with great interest a thread on modifications of usb to spdif converters sometime ago.
I do not know if you are on DIY but i read that modifications in the power supply and the use of more precise crystals can provide nice improvements in sound.
These mods can be quite simple to carry out (like a different transformer and ps caps) and my feeling is that they can elevate a cheap but "sane" unit (like the Gustard U12 in the link) to a higher level of performance.
I found those threads extremely interesting and educational.
Some people are very passionate about this topic. Usb to spdif conversion if well executed sounds really really nice. Low noise and clock precision are key issues.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 05/20/16 05/20/16
Yes, I have looked at the U12 on the forum that somebody linked to in one of the recent threads here. Also the X12 I think it is. The U12 is certainly a lot of tech for the money, I was eyeing it too just before this F-1 thread started up.What is so good about the Talema transformers BTW? I saw them mentioned as an "upgrade" in numerous forums. I know nothing about them, except that at least one of the pieces of gear in my system uses them. I never thought they were anything but "cheap", you know, my usual "disdain" but acceptance for toroidals in hifi gear...but if you have to have them (and it seems we do these days), may as well have good ones. [Just to be clear, I have at least a dozen toroidals in my main system. I have 3 pieces of gear that *don't* use them. I get by...]
In a pic of the SU-1 internals, which I can't seem to find right now, I do recall it showed a Talema xfmr, which reminded me of people talking of them in mod threads, and kind of prompted my Q.
The SU-1 also uses *proper* 75Ω BNC connectors. You can argue the "validity" of that, but at least they're trying to do it properly from a theoretical/technical POV. It shows me they're paying attention to details, I like that. (It's surprising to me how often $$ gear uses 50Ω BNCs, makes me wonder about the other stuff they do...)
Edits: 05/20/16
" Yes, I have looked at the U12 on the forum that somebody linked to in one of the recent threads here. Also the X12 I think it is. "Hi ! if i am not wrong the "X" units are the dacs also very very good for the money.
http://www.amazon.com/GUSTARD-DAC-X12-ES9018-384KHz-Decoder/dp/B00RCUC94Q
I took out some blood and i bought a X20U (still in the box).
http://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B015R112XA/ref=acr_search_hist_5?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=five_star&showViewpoints=0
I hope i am done with dacs. Actually i have too many.
Hope one will work ok." The U12 is certainly a lot of tech for the money, I was eyeing it too just before this F-1 thread started up "
this is exactly my same feeling. For the price is very well built.
But considering that the F1 is just a little more i agree with your preference." What is so good about the Talema transformers BTW? I saw them mentioned as an "upgrade" in numerous forums. I know nothing about them, except that at least one of the pieces of gear in my system uses them. I never thought they were anything but "cheap", you know, my usual "disdain" but acceptance for toroidals in hifi gear...but if you have to have them (and it seems we do these days), may as well have good ones. [Just to be clear, I have at least a dozen toroidals in my main system. I have 3 pieces of gear that *don't* use them. I get by...] "
from what i understand Talema transformers are good quality.
The main problem with toroidal is that they are very "trasparent" to noise in the mains. Of course if you have good filters before or after the transformer is also fine. But EI type or R-core transformers have an intrinsic better suppression of spikes and noise coming from the mains. A better isolation.
If i am not wrong there are also isolation toroidal transformers but i am not an expert.
For me i prefer EI or R-core. I am sure that just replacing the toroidal with a EI type pays dividend especially in presence of noisy mains. Toroidals are the normal choice for high VA because they are more compact for same VA. I still prefer EI always.
But they are very heavy." In a pic of the SU-1 internals, which I can't seem to find right now, I do recall it showed a Talema xfmr, which reminded me of people talking of them in mod threads, and kind of prompted my Q "
I do not know. But i much prefer the Hydra Z solution with external power supply. Consider that transformers emit EMI even toroidal.
They should be always shielded from close circuits.
And which best shield that a complete separate box ?" The SU-1 also uses *proper* 75Ω BNC connectors. You can argue the "validity" of that, but at least they're trying to do it properly from a theoretical/technical POV. It shows me they're paying attention to details, I like that. (It's surprising to me how often $$ gear uses 50Ω BNCs, makes me wonder about the other stuff they do...) "
Well ... imho a brand that makes an excellent and cheaper product like i understand is the F1 it is very likely that makes also a better product for more money. Actually i do not know which of the two units has the best coax out. But again if you want the AES/EBU the more expensive unit is the only option. Very nice looking unit.
Good luck !
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 05/20/16 05/20/16 05/20/16
I notice another product also sold by shenzhenaudio, coincidentally called the SU1, uses an R-core...gives me a warm feeling. :)
But yes, distancing the "noisy" large-signal devices (e.g. xfmr) from the small-signal devices is a good idea. I do like the idea of the xfmr plus mains rectification/filtering being in a separate box. That's what I do when I make stuff, I'm not suggesting it's financially viable in certain markets/price-points though.
It seems to me the pic of "our" SU-1 internals has vanished since yesterday. Of all the pics I saved, that wasn't one of them. So maybe they're changing the internals somewhat before release. I also now see some communication with Singxer where somebody else is apparently asking for the internal/external PS option that I mentioned earlier today.
It does seem that a potential clintele is turned off the F-1 because of a lack of packaging. Perhaps Singxer should just offer a small metal case as optional for the F-1, it would cost them almost "nothing" compared to what they're doing otherwise, and would make the product more attractive to some people.
" I notice another product also sold by shenzhenaudio, coincidentally called the SU1, uses an R-core...gives me a warm feeling. :) "
which kind of product is ? cant find it
" But yes, distancing the "noisy" large-signal devices (e.g. xfmr) from the small-signal devices is a good idea. I do like the idea of the xfmr plus mains rectification/filtering being in a separate box. That's what I do when I make stuff, I'm not suggesting it's financially viable in certain markets/price-points though. "
exactly what i have learned reading here and there.
Going with DC to the main unit is a good solution.
I can tell you that i have also a usb interface said to have good ADC and DAC but the smps inside is causing noise. I am sure that an external power supply would have been a much better solution.
May i ask you what kind of stuff do you make ?
" It seems to me the pic of "our" SU-1 internals has vanished since yesterday. Of all the pics I saved, that wasn't one of them. So maybe they're changing the internals somewhat before release. I also now see some communication with Singxer where somebody else is apparently asking for the internal/external PS option that I mentioned earlier today.
It does seem that a potential clintele is turned off the F-1 because of a lack of packaging. Perhaps Singxer should just offer a small metal case as optional for the F-1, it would cost them almost "nothing" compared to what they're doing otherwise, and would make the product more attractive to some people "
i can tell you there are guys that are very dedicated to test this things in good and revealing systems. Very passionate.
They are great testers. The fact that the manufacturer is willing to listen to their request is a great attitude.
I would wait a little and see the new version.
Thanks a lot again.
Kind regards,
bg
I just make small stuff. I can't compete, in any way at all, with what comes out of China these days for a very reasonable cost. So more often than not, all I do is PSs, thus my interest in new/better ways of doing them. Even the "oldest" tech part of them, the transformer, is still being modestly improved.
I agree. Some years ago the quality was so so.
But now i have seen great products for more than reasonable price.
I am not an expert but i read so many positive reviews.
Some dac boards, like the one in the link, are very very good indeed.
I am also obsessed with power supply.
They are very important for overall performance.
Thanks a lot again.
Kind regards,
bg
Hi again, I actually don't know a thing about that pictured *DAC*, even its description is a bit inaccurate/fuzzy (it's not exactly a USB converter, the way we call it).
It just came up as an "SU-1" when I was trying to find the internals pic of the *real* SU-1. And of course I noticed the R-core, it's not like you see a lot of them, though some of the popular SBT PSs use them. Again, would rather have a good toroidal than a crappy R-core...I think...depends on app. Still, nice to see 'em out there in affordable gear.
I have a F1 and a stock U12, the F1 is like the difference between an expensive hifi and medium range hifi in that the instruments get their own space and the detail/treble is pretty much all you could want.
My thoughts are how does it do it, it's so nice to listen to, hopefully there will be further developments in the years ahead.
http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/
" I have a F1 and a stock U12, the F1 is like the difference between an expensive hifi and medium range hifi in that the instruments get their own space and the detail/treble is pretty much all you could want.
My thoughts are how does it do it, it's so nice to listen to, hopefully there will be further developments in the years ahead.
http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/ "Hi and thanks a lot for the valuable advice.
I am pretty sure the F1 is a superior interface given the many positive reviews around.
Still the U12, quite decent in its stock form (i have one), seems to have a good margin of improvement after some modding (starting from the power supply).
Moreover i am using the balanced digit out.
I am following the reviews on the SU-1.
I am also waiting for another unit i boudght very recently, the Yellowtec Puc2, said to be also very decent.
I have decided to stop when the sound from my pc will be musical enough.
I am quite far from that.
Thanks again for the advice.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 05/20/16
.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Hi thanks a lot !
bought it because of the AES/EBU out mainly.
I checked and this one has also balanced analog ins/outs.
But this F-1 seems indeed one of the best converters with spdif out currently available, if not the best.
Next one.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 05/18/16 05/18/16
and with CRYSTEK clocks yet.
Is anyone in China putting it into a box yet with I2S output?
Seem to recall that the TeraDak Power Supply came with a USB cable that allowed powering boxes with other than USB source power. That said, maybe with an outboard PS of great quality for the uRendu that is not even desirable?
I think that there's a box coming by Singxer in July that has a built Talema transformer PS.
I don't think that it's an F-1, but an X-1 board.
Cheers
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Coming in May.
More importantly, with dip switch programing of the HDMI output pins for I2S because everyone's idea on pin-outs is different(Gustard reverses channels on my DAC).
Link below:
I wouldn't consider Shenzhen, and I would want to make sure that they have the Talema transformer. July? Perfect for someone needing I2s, ESU/EBU, & a more finished product. Yeah, - reprogramming to the correct pin-outs on I2s is awesome. And the price is excellent for all the features.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
This is not necessary for the latest units and arose from a mistake in a post by Jesus which was corrected long ago. Somehow Gustard missed it and particularly AudioGD which persisted with the mistake.
Seem to recall someone claiming that the Gustard to Audio-GD DAC via HDMI reverses the channels.
If both are 'wrong' vs. the 'STANDARD', which is the PSAudio standard? , then perhaps DIP switches might be helpful.
Also, Audio-GD HDMI pin outs can be custom ordered:
"Customer can send the different definitions to us for custom order the different definition of the I2S (RJ45 and HDMI ) ,we can promise the product can follow customer's request but we can't promise the unit can working well with customer's device."
Link below:
too big to post pdf
the usually show the insides. CRYSTEK Femto Clock? I hope so. Blue (not green) TALEMA transformer? We'll see.
and pay more!
F-1 XMOS card looks to be the same price with free shipping on eBay out of Hong Kong?
search Chinese taobao
Ivan wants CRYSTEK FEMTO CLOCKS!!!
The Amanero board built into my DAC has NO Femto Clocks. :-(
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: