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I have a SBT hooked to a PS Audio Sprout. Only had it since the 7th (my previous system having been a full Ayre setup, but had to be sold a few years back....) and have been loving it. I promptly found several favorite albums on HD tracks in 96/24 and a couple 192/24. It was gorgeous sounding... warm, excellent bass, expansive soundstage etc etc.
Tonight, my dear husband was googling and found that the SBT doesn't even support 192 files... which I found disappointing... but he found the EDO app and promptly installed it with glee.....
To me it seems like now the warmth is gone, the bass is lighter, the soundstage a bit compressed and things have lost some life and fun. I sat to listen to a few favorite familiar songs and instead of being immersed I was 'meh'.
I've been combing the internet for threads on EDO to see if anyone else experienced this and didn't find much (but my google foo sucks sometimes). Everyone raves about how much better it sounds.
Am I the only one here? Do I just need to give it a better listen for a few days?
Is there a way to switch it on and off without uninstalling it?
THX
Danielle
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To me it seems like now the warmth is gone, the bass is lighter, the soundstage a bit compressed and things have lost some life and fun.
As compared with exactly what? Since the SBT will not play 24/192 to what are you comparing?
Anyone add EDO to their SBT and not like the sound?
I didn't find a change in sound quality (via my ARC DAC) and now has the ability to actually play 24/192 content although it is downsampled.
Everyone raves about how much better it sounds.
Really? All I find is the utility of being able to play 24/192 and output to USB (which I don't use).
Which output of the three do you use?
I'm assuming they were downsampled to 24/96. So I was able to listen to the same 24/192 file pretty much back to back. If you google and poke around on some other forums there are waves of people and long long discussions about the change in sound across the board for all sample rates.
I'm using spdif coax.
Anyways.... woke up this morning and had a listen to some CDs I ripped last night and then on to the high res stuff and it sounds awesome again. Ever so slightly different, but I don't dislike it now so *shrug*
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Evidently, you're using a different model Touch than I. I'm running LMS 7.9 from today's build.
I did a factory reset on my Touch and attempted to play 24/192 content. Oops! Did you perform a complete reset?
Reinstalled EDO and I'm back to having that capability. :)
[I'm really not following you around... :)]I sometimes play 24/192 via S/PDIF with EDO and it sounds very good (I am not sure in what context you're saying it doesn't do it). I mean, within the "limitations" of the SBT etc., I have no problems at all with it sonically. I don't have a decent USB DAC, so have never used the SBT that way for "critical" listening.
Edit: I did a quick google, and apparently some people can't get 24/192 via S/PDIF + EDO to work. It has always worked for me, no down-sampling, *as far as I can remember* (which is admittedly sketchy on details like this). However, I must say that that could have been why I reverted my firmware, and stopped updating the software...I do remember that i.e. features I don't use added, features I *do* use stopped working.
Edits: 05/17/16
I am not sure in what context you're saying it doesn't do it
Nor am I. Would you care to quote something I've posted?
I don't have a decent USB DAC, so have never used the SBT that way for "critical" listening.
I do. The Audio Research DAC7 is an excellent unit.
It has always worked for me, no down-sampling...
Inherently, the Touch cannot support 24/192. EDO fools it by downsampling. See my response to Enchantment1.6.
What? You clearly said the SBT + EDO will not do 24/192. In the post I responded to.I clearly said *it does*. It does NOT downsample. Here. It puts out 24/192 in the exact context I said. FLAC source files, converted to wav/PCM at the PC end.
I also said *some* people can not get it to work. Which implies that *some* people can. google is your friend. Trust me, *it works* without down-sampling here, why do you think I might try to mislead you?
Did you see the part I wrote about firmware and software? That includes LMS. You get some (new) features, you lose some others. I stopped updating when that became more regular, quite a while ago now. Since I only use S/PDIF, the 24/192 capability + a very slightly improved SQ are the only reasons I use EDO to start with.
Edit: from TRIODE:
There has been some discussion on the Touch forum about the EDO app and the potential benfits to audio quality from the spdif output at 96k and below. This is not the primary purpose of the enhanced digital ouput app but people have debated whether any possible change in audio quality exists. I thought it would be useful to spell out what the changes are that are in EDO. As I may speculate about any impact on sound quality, I thought I'd do it here as its definately a discussion for the audiophile forum...
EDO essentially comprises three parts:
1) A custom linux kernel which is the standard Logitech kernel with the following changes:
- spdif - additional clock divider values to allow 176.4/192k playback============================
...that's the pertinent snippet.
Edits: 05/17/16
You clearly said the SBT + EDO will not do 24/192. In the post I responded to.
Let's try this again since you are confused:
Quote the text I posted that gave you that impression!
It does NOT downsample.
Since the on board hardware does not support 24/192, it must . EDO did not *enhance* it's circuitry.
Did you not say: "As compared with exactly what? Since the SBT will not play 24/192 to what are you comparing?"I was hoping you'd fix your installation *now that you know*.
A snippet from John Swenson:
The way EDO works when selecting the 192 digital out will use less memory and will result in less processing going on. (please note that this output will do all sample rates up to and including 192, not JUST 192). What Triode has done here COULD have been done with the original S/PDIF driver (and IS done in TT3.0). Triode has just chosen to bundle the changes in the way the driver is used with the new driver, as far as I can tell there is nothing different in the new driver other than support for 192. The differences are all in the way the driver is used.
[I just noticed I posted in that thread too, so it must be from the slimdevices forum, probably the EDO thread, I have it saved as a text file.]
I can tell you the SBT FW, EDO version and LMS versions that work if you need 24/192 S/PDIF.
More edit: not trying to be a dick, just trying to help anyone with a prob re this who may be interested...
I actually did log my work with this issue! (Normally I'm good at documenting, from job, but sometimes get lazy at home...) Jan. 2013, I wrote that sometimes 24/192 (S/PDIF) didn't work with EDO, especially if you wanted to decode FLACs at the Touch end (I don't, but for completeness, and because some find it sounds better). I eventually found that LMS and Touch FW both at v7.8 plus EDO at v0.7 (or 0.6) will do it fine and reliably. So that's what I kept installed. This was not even the latest stuff at the time, never mind now. I can't say that other combos won't work, but some do not. It's fine with iPeng too for anybody who also uses that.
Edits: 05/17/16 05/17/16 05/17/16
I am not trying to embarass you, I was hoping you'd fix your installation *now that you know*.
No embarrassment here since it is you who cannot read. Are you confusing me with Enchantment1.6?
Quote what I posted that gave you that impression! Do you understand simple English?
What Triode has done here COULD have been done with the original S/PDIF driver
Fine. Out of the box, it does not. That's the raison d'etre behind EDO!
If you read my post to Enchantment1.6 here , you'll find that the only difficulty I had is when I removed EDOs since she claimed that a Touch would play 24/192 out of the box. Shessh!
1.6: To me it seems like now the warmth is gone, the bass is lighter, the soundstage a bit compressed and things have lost some life and fun.Estat: As compared with exactly what? Since the SBT will not play 24/192 to what are you comparing?
I see what you're saying ^, but your response was not 100% clear in context.
Why didn't you just say, outright, exactly what you wanted to say, in your first response to my response to you? i.e. that a plain/no-EDO SBT will not play 24/192, so you can't fairly compare 24/192 + EDO. You made a blanket statement, and for some people who can't get 24/192 to work via S/PDIF, they might just think that's the end of it. Plus the mention of potential down-sampling. Just wanted to make sure others knew there were options. Nothing to get excited about here...
Edits: 05/17/16 05/17/16
exactly what you wanted to say, in your first response to my response to you?I assumed (incorrectly) that you read the two observations I made in the post to which you referred (where I thought context was clear), i.e.:
" I didn't find a change in sound quality (via my ARC DAC) and now has the ability to actually play 24/192 content although it is downsampled...
Really? All I find is the utility of being able to play 24/192 and output to USB (which I don't use). "
Nothing to get excited about here...
Certainly not. And I'm not convinced that a (stock non-EDO modified) SBT is capable of playing 24/192 content as she continues to aver.
Edits: 05/17/16
just that it played period. I was assuming after I learned the SBT doesn't do 192 without modding that it was just down sampling the file to 24/96.But I'm seriously not lying when I'm saying that pre EDO it played entire albums that were 192/24 FLAC as purchased from HDTracks with no hiccup, no pop-ups, no nothing.
Believe me I'm just as curious as to why this SBT plays the files when others don't. But I'm slightly terrified to revert back to no EDO because what if it changes or resets something and then it ends up like yours, or bricks or some such other thing.
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Edits: 05/17/16
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Yeah, gotta agree there, I certainly couldn't get it to work (plain-jane SBT). But as JS said, Logitech *could* have made 24/192 work, it's almost like they intentionally didn't, as if it might compete with a future product? So many questions about Logitech and the whole Squeezebox thing (I did read the stories from some of the devs, from their POVs, not management's).
Even with EDO, I had to be careful as sometimes the Touch wanted to update its FW (like today!, ??). I just don't know what works, afraid to touch anything. I still have all the EDO versions from 0.1, still sometimes use 0.6 (remember all the controversy?, people swore that was the best version).
I found that EDO sounded unimpressive on the SBT. I think it's like the talking dog - just amazing that it talks at all. The EDO USB output is very basic and definitely not async USB. I think the SPDIF output sounds better, but anyway, the SBT is not a high end digital device, sound-quality-wise imho.
I don't have any "high end" digital devices here. I am not one of those people who'd say there's no such thing, but there are many who would. :)Is it as good as even my "best" CDP? No. But very acceptably close, considering the extreme convenience of music accessability. Easily worth the slight sonic compromise to me.
I know others could massively outperform the SBT with their digital gear. Maybe you're one of them. If you've left it behind, I know a good home for one...
I won't bore you with how important the PS is with the SBT, though plenty of others will use perfectly reasonable arguments to suggest it shouldn't/can't matter. For whatever reason, it does. "Cleaning" the AC helps too. Seems like a lot of trouble for a cheap device, but pretend it's not, and use the good stuff from your other gear with the SBT and it's kind of surprising, not just in a talking dog way, but in a "this computer audio is definitely worth some more time if this POS can do *this*" way.
Edit: forgot to say the most important thing, and that is that I am actually *satisfied* with the SBT into a DAC via S/PDIF. So anything better is truly gravy, and is not "necessary" for me. But I am certainly interested in it, who wouldn't be? I have no idea where the "diminishing returns" kicks in for this stuff yet, but I'm not really of the temperament to find out when new stuff is "a bit" better, I need a fairly large leap before I take something that's basically OK out of the rack.
Edits: 05/17/16
I updated to the latest LMS build today and while experimenting for this thread, I completely reset the Touch and reloaded EDO anew.
I only have *one* SBT, so I'm wary of screwing with it now, until I get something better (I know, microRendu etc., but no USB DAC, so it become a chicken/egg thing re electronic boxes).
I had lots of trouble when things were more in a flux, early 2013 I guess. I see I removed EDO 0.8 back then, it didn't work for me with whatever SBT FW version and LMS versions were floating around at the time. I do recall I had some definite issue with infighting between LMS/SBT SW/FW versions. One much more recent LMS version also caused some feature I used to fail. If it's all working for you, maybe I should update it all now. Or "if it ain't broke..."
I never got the pop-up that you did. After EDO was installed, husband hacked into the SBT's linux system (he's a software engineer) and you can get bit stream out of the coax or whatever you'd want to call that and it confirmed that 192 was going out, no downsampling. Switched to a 96/24 and coax output read 96, swapped back to a 192 and output again confirmed 192.
Other people have confirmed via their DAC that they are receiving 192 in.
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How did you achieve this "back to back comparison" between using EDO and not using EDO (since that requires a new kernel)?So I was able to listen to the same 24/192 file pretty much back to back.
edit: once you've installed the EDO enhancements, you must do a factory reset to remove those kernel changes.
Edits: 05/17/16
As I said, It played fine. Husband interrupted my listening session and dl'd the app and installed it, rebooted... which was fast, about a minute. Then I played the same song I'd been just listening to again. Not quite one right after the other... but close enough.
If he had never googled whatever it was he had searched for where he learned that the SBT doesn't actually do 192/24 unless you have EDO.. I would have remained blissfully unaware of the issue or the app and gone on thinking that I was actually listening to 192/24 since it played the files with no popup or warning or any indication that I wasn't getting full resolution.
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gone on thinking that I was actually listening to 192/24 since it played the files with no popup or warning or any indication that I wasn't getting full resolution.
Two possibilities:
1. The download was not actually 192/24
2. Your Touch is different from mine and that of most in the field.
the digital line out readings off the SBT's linux system all say that it is in fact 192/24 I'm going to go with option 2 and say mine is different for some reason.
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Test that theory by doing what I did today with mine:
1. Reset to factory settings. That's found under advanced settings if I recall correctly. Upon reboot, you'll be prompted to enter language, etc.
2. Play 192/24 content and see what happens
3. Optionally reload EDO app if your magic Touch is successful with #2
As an IT guy, I'm not averse to rebooting or reloading an OS. The only bummer is that you need to remember to change some defaults. Here are those I choose:
1. Set volume control to max
2. Set screen saver to blank after 30 seconds
3. Set player name
Have had good success with USB and optical/RCA SPDIF outputs into various DACs. However, I wouldn't say I've closely A/B'd with/without EDO.
You certainly can boot up the SBT with or without EDO in the settings. I'm sitting at work now; I'll post a detailed How-To when I'm looking at my SBT tonight.
Jeff
"Decaf is for cowards."
Jack Kevorkian
so you've changed from sp/dif to usb into the sprout ?
Maybe the usb in the sprout isn't that good in which case you need a usb/spdif convertor and then you'll need a regen and then you'll need a better usb cable and then you'll need a better power supply or you could uninstall EDO and forget about 24/192.
http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/
but it must have just been my mood or perhaps my ears were stuffy last night, because I listened to a bunch of stuff this morning and couldn't peel myself away. It sounds awesome again... slightly different (smoother?) but still awesome.
*shrug*
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