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In Reply to: RE: Yet another NAA-SBT killer almost RTG from Audiostream posted by Sordidman on May 11, 2016 at 11:00:59
USB and Thunderbolt/Firewire are all I have, Files only, no Streaming, no tweaks.
I don't know what most of the stuff currently being talked about even is.
I do know I don't want a new rack of equipment like in one of the Pix.
I'm sure it's good, but things seem to moving very fast, what will be obsolete tomorrow?
Besides my stuff, that is.
Follow Ups:
OTOH, if this forum represents the current state of Computer Audio it might be better to wait on that FAQ. Maybe another 10 years or so?
This forum does NOT represent the current state of computer audio.Most computer audio converts have perfectly good functioning set ups and can listen to the most current formats with tremendous flexibility.
A lack of knowledge by one or two posters does not indicate the need for an FAQ.
If I jumped on a Ferrari forum with little or no experience and tangle with people with decades of experiences with the cars, would that then
indicate they should drop everything and put up an FAQ?Laziness should not be rewarded. Just my take.
Edits: 05/13/16
"To dongle or not to dongle, that is the question."
Seriously though, maybe you can help set up the FAQ...
I'm no guru, or fountain of knowledge. I simply keep up. There are numerous CA FAQs on the web. There is an entire website dedicated to CA...Computer Audiophile. Stereophile has one.
Yeah, I can't believe that we setup a 24TB NAS server. Who needs that much storage and how to you back it up?
Well, you have music and video and .... it just grows.
I use Squeezebox Touch devices and they just work.
-Rod
I'm sure it's good, but things seem to be moving very fast, what will be obsolete tomorrow?!! The previous model !!
Below is a reader comment following the article in Audiostream about the SOtM sMS-200.
I own the previous model the SMS-100, and like it a lot. It's only a few years old, and when I wrote SOtM and asked them is they might update the OS with RoonReady or any other features, they answered, no it's a dead product, you should just buy an SMS-200.
Well thanks for that.
The example above is one risk I warned about when buying a dedicated audio appliance from some manufacturers. You are at their mercy in getting support. In this case the user is told his older product will not be updated and he has to buy the newer model in order gain new features. Your computer setup for audio will have a much longer usable lifespan as it can be updated (by you) with whatever software you choose to run on it. And if you ever decide not to use your computer for audio, it can be re-purposed for other things.
I'm not saying these dedicated audio appliances aren't good. I'm just reiterating the risks with a real world example above. Sure, these devices are only a few hundred bucks but if you have to buy a new one every couple years to keep up with the latest features.... well. What about other dedicated digital music player devices that cost several thousand dollars that will not or cannot be updated by the manufacture or user?
Edits: 05/12/16 05/12/16
WTF are you talking about?SOtM DISCONTINUED the product. As EVERY company has the right to, including Apple.
They sold out every last unit of the 100. Why would they update it when they were designing an updated product?
Can you call Apple and ask them to "update your iPod Nano? Your iPod Shuffle?
The SBT has not been supported by Logitech for 5 years now, and people are still using them daily.
You twist and spin to suit your misguided agenda.
Edits: 05/12/16
You've completely missed the point! Or conveniently ignored the facts.
As your ridiculous term, "audio appliance" implies a veiled abuse directed at high end audio manufacturers: it is grossly ironic that you wholly embrace these same manufacturers for other parts of your system.
You can't show any evidence that an NAA transport is becoming more or less obsolete than any computer.
As a matter of fact, you admit in your statement that a multi-purpose computer actually becomes obsolete QUICKER, - for audio. Which you conveniently leave out the word "audio" in your childish rant.
the fact remains that multifunction computer designers, hate, and SUCK-AT, building the kind of hardware need to run high end audio, leaving the CONSUMER or their paid agents (WHO ARE HIGH END AUDIO DEVELOPERS), to fix the shit that a multifunction computer generates as it goes obsolete on the "replace your gadget every year" model.
What's worse than a shite, multifunction computer designer/engineer who doesn't hate/believe in high performance audio? A consumer with a putty knife case-cracker, breaking it playing whack-a-mole.
I would rather put my money behind a designer like John Swenson who has learned a ton about digital file processing and networking to produce a product with 1 FUNCTION, than some computer designer trying to save money by combining analog & digital ports.
For all your blind, unreasonable, ignorant, prayers to the demigods of computer design, they, in turn, - mock and abuse you for your $30K audio system.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
I assured oldmkvi that his computer audio setup wasn't going obsolete any time soon and gave him just one documented example of a dedicated digital music player that was prematurely abandoned and no longer supported by the manufacturer.... and you go ape-shit berserk!!No, you don't have an agenda. ;-) You've only been spewing for the past year about how superior your little streamer collection sounds compared to any PC/Mac based audio system. Gimme a break.
Edits: 05/12/16 05/12/16
You are spreading MISINFORMATION.
The 100 is DISCONTINUED, NOT DEAD. Just like the SBT. No difference.
It runs on CURRENT SonicOrbitor firmware. I know several people using them just fine. It streams every known resolution. The only "updating" it would need would be if you wanted to use Roon with it. Otherwise, other products are STILL catching up to it. It was $450.
STOP WITH HE BS.
Manufacturers are absolutely entitled to discontinue products.
DISCONTINUED -AND- UNSUPPORTED for updates for new features in a mere couple years. Time to buy ANOTHER one!Manufacturers are absolutely entitled to discontinue products.
Sure, but DIY computer audio system users like oldmkvi don't have to be concerned with these issues as he is free to update his computer with any number of newer software applications he wishes. He is not dependent on one manufacturer, a manufacturer who in this case chose to abandon his loyal customers who bought the previous model which can no longer be updated..
There was no B.S. to what I was saying to oldmkvi so get over it.
Edits: 05/12/16
you are utterly disingenuous.
And a LIAR.
You do NOT have to buy another one.
As I said, there is NO NEED to update the 100 unless you want to use Roon. Period.
The product is NOT dead, it is discontinued.
STOP THE LYING. No body needs to buy re-buy anything.
You are clearly an irrational mental patient who has been stomped at every turn. You live to argue.
Roon is but one good example you keep mentioning. Many people want to run Roon and you CANNOT with the previous model SMS-100.
I didn't write this, "I own the previous model the SMS-100, and like it a lot. It's only a few years old, and when I wrote SOtM and asked them is they might update the OS with RoonReady or any other features , they answered, no it's a dead product, you should just buy an SMS-200."
Are you saying the owner of this previous model SMS-100 is lying? Get a clue, man!
STOP the disingenuous BULLSHIT. Stop it.Roon will cost $500 to own or $120 per year. It is absolutely optional and unnecessary if you have DLNA software running.
You are PURPOSELY spreading FALSE information.
I happen to know there is a language barrier with SOtM. I have exchanged emails with them in the past and their english is limited. They ABSOLUTELY meant it is a discontinued product.
When you walk into a car dealer and want to buy a 2 year old model, and there are non available, they will sell you THE CURRENT model.
Disingenuous clown.
Edits: 05/12/16
Nothing I said was false. I simply cited fact from an actual owner of the product.
And since you tried to side track the issue with a weak car analogy....
When you walk into a car dealer and want to buy a 2 year old model, and there are non available, they will sell you THE CURRENT model.
Sure, but say I already own that 2 year old model do they stop supporting it? Lets say I want new features and new points of interest in my Navigation system, they update it. They don't tell me I have to buy a new car!
Another misinformed post. More bullshit.
Sonore, who sold SOtM, in the US, WILL support it.
It is FALSE to call it a dead product.
It is FALSE to say you must purchase something new.
To say you have egg on your face would be an understatement.
Will they make it "RoonReady" and add other new features to the previous model SMS-100?
Not according to the guy who bought one.
S T F U already.
we want this to be a happy, fun and informative place to visit.
Telling somebody to 'shut the fuck up' ain't kosher.
Remember, just because you 'can,' doesn't mean you 'should.'
Thanks for playing along.
Chris
You're in a corner with egg on YOUR face so you have nothing else to say? I'm glad!
S
T
F
U
MYOB
Let's just agree to disagree.
Fair enough?
-Rod
WTF does "Roon Ready" mean? Don't you have to run Roon from your PC? How can a DAC be "Roon Ready"?
You are not being left in the dust. Obviously, you can enjoy your music with the system you have.
On the software front, new solutions to enhance computer playback are being offered.
And as Sordidman pointed out, new dedicated servers ( still computers ) are being offered with essentially the single purpose of playing music files.
Consider your stuff obsolete if you can't play the files you want to listen to.
but still don't necessarily know what it "is" and "does".
Any recommendations of what to read to get with the many new products available?
Seriously?
What is difficult to understand about a device that received digital music files through a network connection, then sends it to your DAC to decode, which in turn sends it to your preamp or integrated amp?
with my IMac/Lampizator Dac-
Where does it go, what does it do.
Seriously.
Sure.First, you do not need the iMac in the hifi room.
The hook up looks like this:
NAS (Network Attached Storage) OR networked computer with files on hard drive, or attached hard drive in any room in the house. You run DLNA or ROON software on either the NAS or computer (set it and forget it, once it scans your library, it is invisible, and you don't have to mess with it)
Ethernet Cable connects to your microRendu or SOtM 200 on your hifi rack,
then a USB cable out from either device to your DAC.
That is it.
You browse your library and control playback with any number of control points on an Android or iOS device.
Benefits?
No noisy computer in the listening room. No noisy hard drives. No software to mess with,
And best of all. ONE central library you can send files to multiple rooms with superior sound.
Edits: 05/11/16
from the computer or the Modem?
Can you give me a brand name/model of a NAS Device?
What initiates playback from an NAS?
I mean, I use HQ or some others on my IMac,
but if it isn't in the chain anymore, how does it play back Files, or choose them?
I know these are Baby Questions, and I appreciate your taking the time to respond.
If you could fill in these gaps for me, I think I'd have it!
I used to be this ignorant of the Finale Music Notation Program,
but eventually came to grasp it...
The real beauty comes when you realize how much more time you spend listening to music as opposed to finding, loading, unloading and putting it away. You re-discover stuff you might have forgotten about.
I already had a Win based desktop so I simply leverage it for music and video storage using LMS via my home network. I'm able stream both from a shared library to a range of devices around the house.
From one E-statter to another, appreciate the comment.
I think if more folks experienced the value of having a centralized music server, there would be more converts. The transition was perhaps easier for me since I have maintained a home network for many years.
FWIW, I'm in the process of shopping for a different DAC. While my current one sounds great, it has limited USB support. I currently use a S/PDIF connection to the Touch player which has worked just fine - and not required a host of external USB widgets. Ethernet already in place.
That environment will not, however support the USB only uRendu. :)
Never been a better time to shop for a DAC.
I strongly suggest the Simaudio line..full coverage on the DACs..every input, and every resolution.
yowza.
check it out. Linn Kazoo app. FREE.
Edits: 05/11/16
oldmkvi:
-The ethernet cable comes form an Ethernet jack in the room, a wireless router, or a switch. You must have a home network. I have ethernet in everyroom in the house with wirless for mobile devices.
-As I explained, a mobile control point like an iPad controls playback. Think of it as a very nice remote control.
NAS? I use Synology but there are so many good ones..high capacity and some come preloaded with DLNA software. You can also use your computer as a NAS.
Here is the beauty of the miroRendu..and previous SOtM products...they absolutely still allow you to run HQ Player! So in that case your computer is in a remote location, connected to the network, and your iPad/Android tablet, whatever, controls playback. Total isolation, total piece of mind.
So, if I have a "Roon Ready" DAC (eg, the new Ayre DAC), I only need a NAS and an Android or iOS to use Roon? No PC anywhere in the chain?
Roon requires the RoonReady DAC, - which the new Ayre is, correct.
Roon also requires Roon Core or Roon Server. People have installed Roon Server on their NAS, that has their audio files.
Most people are running Roon Server/Core on a separate computer that's connected to their home network. Several folks have installed Roon Server on their Synology brand NAS. And, I'm sure that other brand NASs will be able to install it soon.
Yes, - you'll use an iPAD or tablet as a remote control to play the files on the Ayre.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Hold on Sordid...
One clarification..Roon has nothing do with your DAC..it does not talk to roon, your streamer does...
Hi,
I think that the new Ayre DAC has a roon ready NIC/processor built into it so all you need is to connect the Ayre DAC up to the LAN via ethernet and you're ready to go.... Kind of like the PSAudio Bridge II which they're setting up to be RoonReady as well, - (if I'm not mistaken).
Cheers,
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
The new Ayre "digital hub" is a one box streamer with onboard DAC with multiple digital inputs. Just like a host of other integrated DAC/streamer boxes. $8500.(Side note, I found Ayre's immense stubbornness about only offering a DAC with a USB input amusing..their owner has railed against SPDIF for a decade. Funny how you can only swim upstream for so long. Folks still want SPDIF, AES/EBU, and now Ethernet.)
ROON has nothing to do with the DAC module. The firmware for the streamer module is what needs to be roon "ready".
Just to be clear, Roon in a networked audio set up talks only to your streamer.
You can also use Roon as a stand alone player on a computer connected to a DAC. Any DAC.
Edits: 05/12/16
Sorry...
I was referring to the new "digital hub" as a DAC. It's better to refer to it not as a DAC, cause that gets more confusing....
:-)
Cheers,
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
I admit, I would love to hear it, but I am leery of locking in DAC, streamer, and other functions into one box. I know Ayre uses firmware upgrades to add functionality, so maybe not a big deal.
At $8500, not cheap, but it will have Ayre quality.
Yeah, - I'm a + 1 on that too.....
I had a PSAudio Directstream DAC in my system for awhile. But, - I don't think that I'd want my network streamer built into that either. But, - that card is on a PCI, (or PCI-like), bus that can be replaced if there's an upgrade.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Your DAC has nothing to do with Roon, is is the file player/streamer.It runs on the device that hosts your files. Just like LMS.
You control playback with the Roon mobile app...
It is simply what is being talked about as a much more advanced protocol than DLNA.
By the way, Roon is a real thing, unlike MQA, which is essentially vapor ware. Roon is not a format, a decoding alogorithm, or DSP. It is just standalone software.
Edits: 05/12/16
Not quite.
Let me TRY, I stress try to explain, because it is can be confusing.
Think of Roon as a hyper engineered replacement form DLNA. The designers claim, and others have agreed, that is a far superior network communication protocol for networked audio. It does EXACTLY what LMS, MiniMServer, or Jriver does..catalog and you library and send files to your file player/streamer.
Your DAC has nothing to do with Roon. Your streamer (SBT, BDP-2, Sonore, SOtM, whatever) must have firmware that can communicate in the Roon protocol.
Roon must run on your NAS or computer, again just like LMS.
The other benefit touted by Roon is the meta data enhancemnts
Maybe I should retire my touch tone landline and join the 21st century? Nah!
So,what are the benefits of these "Roon Ready" devices?
Are you familiar at all with a networked audio set up? If not, I can't be of much help.
DLNA is simply a networking protocol that allows media devices to communicate. So I can stream a movie on my computer to my Apple TV in another room etc.
Don't get too caught up in the Roon buzz.
It is a very good software, written by the folks who used to work on Sooloos.
The benefits, besides perhaps better sound, and a cleaner protocol, is the meta data overlay.
For example for any given album you stream it will tell you who wrote the songs, who played on the album, who produced it, it will give you 20 other artists with a similar sound, show you album reviews etc.
Roon Ready SIMPLY means the device can talk to the Room software running on your NAS. Nothing more.
As the world turns away from multi-function computers and towards more single purpose networked devices, - the Internet of things....
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Any suggestions where/what to read and learn?
The folks at over at Computer Audiophile are pretty knowledgeable & for the most part very nice.
A lot of what is going on is distributive networking. Some really interesting new spins on old stuff, - like an improved Squeezebox-like version of NAA. Plus the interesting new USB extender tech that basically extends the USB signal via Ethernet: what PSAudio is going to be selling, - but has been around for a few years. And, Audio only communication protocols over layer3 switches & Ethernet, similar to Roon's RAAT, & AES67 which utilize DACs with Ethernet ports running RTP/UDP
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
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