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In Reply to: RE: "total electrical isolation for the connections between your computer and music system " posted by beppe61 on April 14, 2016 at 08:54:09
The idea that only add-on vendors have a lock on good USB interface design practice is bogus. There is no reason why DAC makers cannot incorporate many of these benefits within their DACs. Some have. Some use their own clean internal 5V for the USB receiver and some also incorporate galvanic isolation.
For example, these DACs do not rely on dirty 5V VBUS from the computer USB port. This is certainly not the definitive list and some of these DACs have been on the market for quite a while. I took this list directly from the AQVOX website:
Here our USB-power supply brings no sound improvement because the USB-chip is self powered (powered from the DAC internally)
Ayre QB9
Benchmark DAC1 new Generation
Arcus rDAC
Arcam iR DAC
Nortstar 192/24
Antelope Audio ZODIAC
T&A DAC8 - USB-Chip Tenor TE8802L is internally powered
Weiss
Arcam rDAC
Eastern Electric Mini Max & MiniMax DAC Plus
Musical Fidelity V - DAC II
Chord Qute HD
Audiolab 8200 CDQ and all other Audiolab devices with USB
Micromega myDAC
Wired4sound W4S DAC2 DSD
Teac UD-501 DAC
Metrum Acoustics HEX USB DAC
Moon 380D DSD
"Inside the above devices, the USB-chips are powered from the DACīs internal power supply. The 5V from the computer are not connected to the DAC, and as they are not connected, no "evil-computer-power" can affect or alter the USB-data lines or the DACs electronics."
Follow Ups:
Hi
i agree completely that this should be a basic requirement.
Thank you very much for the interesting list.
Another aspect that leaves me a little puzzled is the connector.
I do not like the usb connection.
Much better rj45 with the locking mechanism. Like the CAT7 Double Shielded 10 Gigabit 600MHz Ethernet Cable with RJ45 metal connectors in the picture ... gorgeous.
I guess they provide a much better contact quality without costing an arm.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
"In Audio-gd products, the Amanero Combo 384 have not power supply from computer for the less disturb."
So there!
That said, I am not surprised the REGEN and the Intona makes an audible difference in Audio-GD DACs as noise on the +5VBUS coming from the computer is not the only source of problems with USB.
I would like to try a USB cable without the +5V line just to see if it is being used for hand-shake or any other reason and somehow introducing noise even though it is not powering the USB > I2S board.
Hi !
if i may give an advice, sacrifice a cheap usb cable. Split it open and cut shield, + and - wires and leave the + and - data wires.
It is a little gross test but it is definitive to see if you usb dac is completely isolated or not.
It could be that, without the Intona in between, it shares the ground with the pc ? that could be a path for noise ?
But if you try with the sacrifical cable you will be sure.
I did this on my Cambridge Audio Dacmagic and it worked (not a bad dac by the way).
For me this should be a requirement for all serious usb dac.
I do not know why it is not. I would call it even a design flaw.
Very very easy to avoid.
Kind regards,
bg
Sure there are other benefits that many of these add-on devices offer but not all of them can be taken advantage of, depending on the DAC.I would like to try a USB cable without the +5V line just to see....
I posted about this last year. You can do it w/o butchering your USB cable as some others are fond of doing. ;-) All you need is a business card, 3x5 card, or similar.
Cut and fold. Toothpick shown for rough size comparison. I'd use a thin business card or 3x5 card. You don't want it to be very thick.
Insert into USB connector covering USB Vcc pin-1. You may want to cover the USB ground pin-4 as well, but this is not necessary if all you want to do is to determine if your DAC requires external 5V.
Edits: 04/14/16 04/14/16
This is a bodge up.
For those of you that don't know British English, a bodge up is:
To do something badly, especially to make or repair something badly because you do not have enough time or the right materials to do it properly.
So be it, a bodge up!My definition in this case, "an elegant alternative to fmak unnecessarily and permanently butchering a perfectly good USB cable for the sake of a simple test". Bodge up!
Edits: 04/14/16
or child's play?
Both an elegant alternative and child's play compared to your method which involves the unnecessary butchering of a perfectly good USB cable. It's pretty obvious to most folks which method makes the most sense for testing a DAC to see if it requires USB 5V.
What else is in your lineup for criticisms today? Bring it on! I'm having a ball discrediting your every jab at me.
''unnecessary butchering of a perfectly good USB cable''
you have again invented what I did or did not do. This has never happened to any of my quality cables.
Anyone who reads and understands my posts will know that I make up various lengths and versions of my own usb cables from Wireworld Starlight and other long cable lengths. This gves me ths insight into important parameters that you do not understand or know.
A fabrication? Hardly!I have a pretty good memory and I'm even better at searching the Asylum archives.
From the Asylum archives, a 2014 quote from fmak:
"Take a good quality and short usb cable. Cut the red (+5V) cable at the transmitting end. I use Wireworld cables 'cause it is easy and neat to cut up and remake if you want to."
Edits: 04/16/16 04/16/16
Link below:
this prove anything? Remaking a commercial cable is not butchery and you may actually learn something by doing it. Unless, of course, you want to sell your cables after a few weeks, or you want to fabricate a story based on selective interpretation of what is said.
'Remaking'
LOL!
...so why the denial? It was pretty clear what was said.- I thought my solution was elegant, creating no damage to the USB cable at all. Temporarily block USB +5Vcc pin-1 at the connector with a strip of thin cardboard to test if your DAC requires external +5V via USB.
- You thought my solution was "child's play" and a "bodge up" - your words, not mine.
- Your solution was to "cut up" the USB cable - again, your words not mine.
Is this not what you said? At least two of us viewed it in the Asylum archives.
"Take a good quality and short usb cable. Cut the red (+5V) cable at the transmitting end. I use Wireworld cables 'cause it is easy and neat to cut up and remake if you want to."
Edits: 04/17/16 04/18/16 04/18/16
Gee, that's what I initially thought as well Abe :)
Edits: 04/14/16
Oh, it is a 'function' test. I note that the poster places his screen on top of his dac. This is 'great' practice and ensures that the field generated around the screen will find it's way into the replay chain.
"I note that the poster places his screen on top of his dac."It's called an iPad or Tablet. Get a clue dude.
"This is 'great' practice and ensures that the field generated around the screen will find it's way into the replay chain."
Except when the portable screen is not on his DAC but resting on his lap across the room ensuring that the field generated around the screen finds it's way to keeping his balls warm while enjoying beautiful music. Problem solved!
Edits: 04/14/16 04/14/16 04/15/16
These USB add-on's are certainly interesting. I have the Zodiac DAC mentioned on ABE's list. It is self powered. Putting a USB Disruptor in the system made a significant improvement in sound. Adding a Regen unit was a step backward.
Next I will compare the Disruptor to the iFi USB 3.0 unit.
I really think all one can do is try and return if there is not an improvement with these USB devices.
I did have a nice improvement when I replaced the Antelope DAC fuses(2) with Synergistic Research Black fuses.
David Pritchard
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