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In Reply to: RE: RRE: "the sound of the hall before the first note was played"? posted by genungo on January 24, 2016 at 10:49:28
I believe that when very low level sounds (which exist in all rooms apart from very specialised anechoic chambers) are reproduced accurately on a recording, the illusion of realism is enhanced because we now can hear the venue ambience as a separate, distinguishable auditory entity from the foreground sounds - just as we do in real auditory spaces when listening to any sound.
In the natural world, every sound has a background ambient environment - that's why people report that sitting in an anechoic chamber is an unnatural & weird experience
That's my take on it - maybe John's is different?
Follow Ups:
> I believe that when very low level sounds (which exist in all rooms apart
> from very specialised anechoic chambers) are reproduced accurately on a
> recording, the illusion of realism is enhanced because we now can hear
> the venue ambience as a separate, distinguishable auditory entity from
> the foreground sounds - just as we do in real auditory spaces when
> listening to any sound.
Exactly so. Thank you for the clarification.
When I am making my own recordings, there's always that magic moment
when you bring up the faders on the microphones and you sense the space
in which the performance will take place. I always record a couple of
minutes of room tone, with everyone as silent as possible, so I can splice
in a few seconds worth between tracks on the CD rather than fading to
black when I master the record.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
Absolutely correct. For me the first opening of the mikes wasn always a magical moment. I wish more people could experience this and the initial console feed of sound from the studio. It is as John has indicated a wonderful experience
Alan
I have said many times, that anyone who has not actually made recordings is not really an audiophile. They have not experienced this magical moment and then have, IMO, absolutely no basis for making any comments about playback of recordings that other people have made, other than their personal enjoyment or fantasies.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Questions are more important than answers in certain cases.BTW, I had thought that sitting in an anechoic chamber sounded weird because it's about the only time one can hear the blood flowing through one's own eardrums against a backdrop of pure silence. But who knows? Maybe, anechoic chambers do indeed have a *sound*?
For now I am reminded of what Herman and his Hermits used to say. Is there, in fact, "... a kind of *Hussshhhh* all over the world tonight..."?
Edits: 01/24/16
"Questions are more important than answers in certain cases." Depends on whether the questioner is genuinely interested in learning or not?"Maybe, anechoic chambers do indeed have a *sound*?" I believe, it's the lack of the natural background ambience that is "weird" because we never encounter such conditions in the natural world, only in a man-made structure.
One of the ways auditory processing works is via a comparison of the auditory stream signals to it's stored auditory models built up & stored in the brain from experience. It's like the old fairground hall of mirrors - disorientating & unnatural for vision
Edits: 01/24/16
They do not have a sound . The total lack of sound is what inables you to hear the internal sounds of your own body. We had a chamber at IIT and you could not stand it for very long
Alan
the PROBLEM is..95% of rock and pop recordings are done with close mike, in isolation booths, with baffles, in neutral rooms. So there goes that theory. At final mixdown, treatments are applied.
If one focuses exclusively on classical music or a small number of purist jazz recordings, yeh, sure.
IMO it is a complete waste of time to even talk about the reproduction of 99 percent of rock and pop recordings. They are garbage, made for one purpose only, extracting as much money from the plebes (while giving as little as possible to the "artists"). In many cases, the "talent" includes "singers" who are selected for their sex appeal without regard to their ability to sing, and who would never have gotten anywhere without disgusting electronic tricks such as "autotune".
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Sure, most recordings are done with fabricated soundstage & so you are therefore writing off that MQA can have any affect on these recordings. On what basis? Because you have decided to isolate & focus on one aspect that Harley & Atkinson reported as being the only improvement that MQA brought to the recording?This seems a very simplistic & biased approach, if you ask me
I believe you could benefit more by getting over your obvious ire & examine what MQA might be doing that could be responsible for the increased realism of the hall ambience experienced by Harley & Atkinson.
From my reading of Harley's piece, I believe two technical focusses were being followed in MQA - improved noise stability & decreased temporal blur. Both of these factors are of great interest to me & I could well see them being responsible for the perceptual improvements reported, so far in hearing MQA
Edits: 01/24/16
How many times do I have to ask this. How can we report on how well M works when we can't listen to it. At least with 4k and 8k tv we can buy the hardware even though there is no software. With MQA even if you can get a meridian explorer II there is also no software. By the way the Meridian device needs a firmware update to do MQA. Guess what. The update is not ready yet.
Alan
Yea, but I'm sure there were early reports from reviewers of just how realistic 4K & 8K TV was before it became generally available - it's the nature of how products come to market - I'm not sure what the problem is?
And I ignored those reports also
Alan
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