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In Reply to: RE: Listening impressions of Regen battery tweak posted by jkeny on November 27, 2015 at 06:21:15
I use double Regens into a Benchmark II HGC dac that requires 5 v input from the USB cable. So I only modded my 1st Regen. Once I isolated my battery acoustically on an Aurious the sonics were fabulous. Think depth and inner detail. Timbre was superb and space between instruments in large classical pieces opened up a bit so imaging was very precise. Hall ambience improved. Instruments like piano, mandolin, harpsichord were never better. Everything sounded much more real. Jk advises I can do better by eliminating the unmodded Regen which still uses the onboard regulator. I understand how to do it conceptually but I can't figure out how to do from a practical standpoint, yet.Strongly recommended.
One more thing: low level detail and dynamics are significantly improved.
Edits: 11/27/15 11/27/15Follow Ups:
One other sonic improvement, and maybe its the reason for all the other sonic benefits, is transients now are much more distinct and not smeared.
"One other sonic improvement, and maybe its the reason for all the other sonic benefits, is transients now are much more distinct and not smeared."Yes, I find the realism of the soundstage is greatly improved - more solidity & distinctness to the individual elements. As you say the distinctness of the leading edge of sounds seems to be improved. It's always difficult to relate our auditory perception of elements such as these with underlying changes in the analogue waveform (as we see from the inconclusive measurements done so far on the Regen) but I believe that & more stable noise floor (& possibly a lower one) is responsible for the lack of any perception of smearing?
It's hard to believe that these perceptually OBVIOUS sonic improvements wouldn't be measureable, isn't it?
I'm hoping to send my battery modified Regen to Bibo01 & Tom to do NCD difference measurements but I'm still not holding my breath that conclusive differences will be found as noise floor stability (in the presence of dynamic signals) is not easy to measure, I believe.
Edits: 11/27/15
Finally got just one Regen running by tapping into the little prong (that runs from the mobo to the top of the back of USB output connector ) for the 5v. And into the battery ground as you suggested. I used another Regen as the 5v source. Result was not as good as my initial 2 Regen configuration. Just to be clear I use a very expensive power cord into the 2nd Regen power source. Using a generic power cord makes the comparison closer. Sonic differences are (for the dual Regen) deeper depth, tighter bass more extension top and bottom, better inner detail and dynamics. Power cord is KK palladium or something like that. Retail value was something like $1k bought it when I was working and had more $ than diy skills. So there it is. Sorry to debunk the theory that 1 Regen is better than 2. It all depends on the individual power supply to the Regen 2nd one that is.
I've no problem being wrong but from what I understand of your setup you are running a 5V from your mobo to your DAC. It would not surprise me that this sounds worse than the previous 5V which was coming from your 2nd Regen?Do I misunderstand your config?
Edits: 11/29/15
I run a USB cable from PC to the battery powered Regen whether it's running solo or in tandem with a 2nd Regen. I don't understand your comment. When I ran solo battery powered Regen it was 5v powered by yet another Regen not connected to anything except the mains. I soldered its 5v terminals to get 5v to go to my 3.3v battery powered Regen. Even in single or double Regen the Regen dumps the incoming USB 5v power, as I understand. So the boundary conditions are the same for single or double Regen.
Right, when you said mobo, it confused me (I'm reading this on a phone) - I want sure where the 5V was coming from, that's why I asked.So the 2 Regens is still better than one - very good!
Edits: 11/29/15
I've also run a REGEN off a 5 volt (USB) supply rather than the supplied power supply. It seemed to work OK, but probably because my DAC doesn't require 5 volts from the REGEN.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
John Swenson early on recommended the following power supply for the Regen
http://www.ebay.com/itm/30W-DC9V-Hifi-Linear-power-supply-Regulated-PSU-for-DAC-amp-digital-display-/141503525422?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20f244722e
I bought one and have used it ever since on my Regan. It made a significant upgrade to the sound of the Regen
Alan
OK, perhaps try a TeraDak U9VA Linear Power Supply w/5V USB output if one's DAC required it?Seem to recall that the Audio-GD Amanero board is powered by a liner supply inside of the DAC.
Edits: 12/03/15
Thanks for your impressions, TheobJust to clarify, I'm saying that your battery powered Regen MAY be better than the two Regens that you are currently using.
What you need is a 5V Vbus signal for the Benchmark DAC for initial handshaking between PC & DAC.
What I suggest you do is use only the tweaked Regen but power it normally through its DC input AND also have the battery connected - this will provide 5V to the DAC. When DAC has done handshaking disconnect the DC input to the Regen & leave battery connected.
This should now play just using this one Regen.
Let us know if this sounds any different to using 2 Regens
Another solution:
I would normally DIY this but to give you an idea of how to remove your second Regen you could use a 5V power spliced into the USB cable like is done in this AQvox solution.
http://www.aqvox.de/usb-power_en.htmlEssentially, it's a USB adapter which has had the 5V Vbus trace interrupted & spliced into so that this 5V can be provided with a suitable external supply.
As you don't need the 5V for powering any part of your DAC, just for an initial handshake signal, the quality of your %V is no that important so you won't need the Aqvox solution - this was just to give you an idea of how to go about this.
There are some USB adapters which have been modified in this way but I can't find them now - maybe someone has a link?
Edits: 11/27/15
I have been all over this (trying to bring 5 volts to my Regen USB output connector)and there are no easy solutions. So I think using a dual headed USB cable as you suggest is the best least intrusive solution. Do you (or anybody else) know of a short version of this?
Actually, Theob, it's not tight or difficult at all to connect 5V to the USB output connector on the Regen - this is the connector on the right of the picture. The pin at the bottom of this connector in the pic is the 5V pin - it is the one with the wide trace going to it from the REG5
You should connect your +5V from your PS to here & the PSes gnd to the battery ground or any other ground point on the board
That was my plan but it still requires soldering on the battery powered Regen. If I could avoid that, that would be preferable. I was hoping to construct a aqvox like power injector. But maybe I'll have solder on the board.
I'm not sure what the problem is - you've already soldered wires into the vias for the 3.3V battery supply, right?
Only problem is there is no hole for the 5v feed. So i would have to do surface soldering. Look I am going to get there. I"m just taking my time exhausting all possibilities.
Teradak makes one, and Paul Pang also makes a power injector.
Edits: 11/28/15
Build one yourself. It is easy. I can walk you through it if needed.
Lance A.
You've got mail.
Try searching for "5V power injector for USB" & I'm sure you will find something that suits
I don't know how good it is but I found this http://linitx.com/product/mikrotik-5v-power-injector-for-usb-on-rb411uahr-and-rb493g/12849
Thanks. The aqvox power injector is just what I need. Hope I can buy just the power injector portion of their cable. I sent them an inquiry.
Only problem is that I believe the Benchmark uses the 5v for handshake and for ongoing operation.so I need to splice it insomehow
I was initially thinking of running 5v to the 2 outer pins of the Regen outgoing USB connector. I see where to do it but it is very tight in there and difficult in my mind to solder. Your idea of a dual cable going from Regen to the dac is a good one but Alex from a Uptone says to keep that cable really short. I'll keep working on it because I believe the payoff will be worth it.
Oh, right, I thought the Benchmark DAc only needed the 5V for handshaking.
So you do need a quality 5V supply if this is powering some parts of your DAC. Why not look into the Aqvox then - it provides a reasonable PS & a modified USB adapter into which this 5V PS is connected to. If you do this, the only extra bit added between DAC & Regen is this modified USB adapter. At some later stage you can use a better 5V supply - maybe even battery :)?
BTW, how are you charging the battery?
Do you notice any sonic hit to charging it concurrently while playing music?
"BTW, how are you charging the battery?
Do you notice any sonic hit to charging it concurrently while playing music?"
I have the trickle charge on all the time and notice no degradation with it on.
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