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In Reply to: RE: Regen makers are well aware posted by fmak on November 26, 2015 at 22:16:45
I really think the Regen folks did a great job.
Swenson himself mentioned several times - in the early days - that he's well aware that things can be improved further.
They've clearly shown to a wide community how flawed most of the USB DACs still are. And they proved most USB DAC manufacturers wrong.
That's where e.g. SOTM kind of failed. They've build an excellent internal PC USB interface much earlier. Their problems: 1. Desktop PCs as audio servers are a dying art 2. price
The Wyrd device wasn't good enough to push the competition.
The iPurifier 2 at 99Euro seems to be the logical next stage. I just ordered one for testing.
Let see if Rankin/AQ comes up one day with an active device @ $69 challenging the iPurifier2. ;) I guess AQ sold quite some JBs. Enough to realize that large volumes @ rather fair prices can make quite a nice business model.
For sure things are getting better soon.
Beside that I listened to the Schiit Yggdrasil the other day. The Regen
just made a very small, still IMO worthwhile, difference in that system. Obviously some DAC manufacturers are listing what's going on out here.
Follow Ups:
""They've clearly shown to a wide community how flawed most of the USB DACs still are. And they proved most USB DAC manufacturers wrong.""
No, they are clearly showing how flawed most USB buses are, and/or USB source outputs are.
""The Regen just shapes a digital signal and the noise floor.""
Uptone/Swenson says that it regenerates it.
If you are not disputing that, why not write rengenerate?
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
You listened a bit too much to the vendors around here and elsewhere trying to make people believe that the problem is NOT with their products.
You - as vendor - do that - blaming others - as long as you or your competition don't have a solution. That's basic marketing.
Meanwhile (after > 10 years talking and trying) every single soul around here should have realized that you'll never get the upstream (seen from DAC) environment under control.****
Svensson actually can't use the term "Regenerate", even though it's what every stupid $5 USB-hub does. It's trademarked by iFi. ;)
While doing what every $5 USB-hub does -regenerating,rebalancing,reclocking - the signal gets reshaped. Just the data values stay as they are.
Edits: 12/02/15
""You listened a bit too much to the vendors around here""
Nope, - I listen to music and equipment and make my own judgments.
""Meanwhile (after > 10 years talking and trying) every single soul around here should have realized that you'll never get the upstream (seen from DAC) environment under control.""
Until high-end gear manufacturers start learning about digital file processing, hardware-software, preemptive mult-tasking, charge pumps, role of RAM, USB buses, etc..
Which is what they've begun to do. Your point has been taken, and audio designers have begun to bite the bullet, and we're seeing digital file player/transports designed by the "right" people.
Lastly on this, just because getting these upstream components "under control" are just beginning to be addressed, doesn't mean that they are not a "problem." MY POINT is that the Regen/iPurifier are products that are addressing the PROBLEM, - they are designed to "fix" 1 of the problems in these upstream components, - namely, - the USB bus.
""Svensson actually can't use the term "Regenerate",""
I think that he did already, but I get your point. Capitalism is indeed quite evil....
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Yes, agreed, the problem is mainly at the source end although some blame the DACs for not completely eliminating the shit that comes down the communication cables along with the digital signalThe main issue is that computers & digital communications have no need to pay attention to the issues that have been noticed by audiophiles for years & are being addressed by products such as the Regen, iFi & others. For successful digital comms, the only concern is BER (Bit Error Rate) - noise or signal quality is only of concern if it introduces unacceptable rates of bit errors which will affect the comms.
So when this scenario has to play with & cross over into the analogue domain, all these issues raise their heads. Especially so when dealing with digital audio where the voltage or current levels at the LSBs is so low, delicate & easily disturbed.
I believe that a lot of what has been happening in computer audio over the last 10 years or so is the move towards this realisation & conclusion - that digital audio isn't just about the bits - the quality of the signal & what might be riding on it or alongside it is also of importance.
The Regen is just one of the many advances in this area.
Edits: 04/30/16
and does not improve computer systems that are not well assembled and set up for audio that much. It is NOT just the dac as some seem to think here. Using the smps to power the Regen suppress some of the subtle improvements, especially in dynamics and quality of hf.
The Regen just shapes a digital signal and the noise floor.
How this impacts soundquality depends on the associated equipment.
It shouldn't be much of a surprise though if most DACs respond in a similar way. Most of them use pretty similar input stages.
And even with the Regen in place, pretty much all other known tweaks apply again. Just on a level higher then before.
IMO the time for Regen in its current version is over. There are potentially better products at lower price.
I consider it waste of time and money to try to get such a device working properly by applying all kind of modifications that after all cost more than the actual device.
Enjoy.
passive filter???????
I would not trust any product is sold only in China at the behest of its parent company because of defects.
I'm lost.
What the heck are you talking about?? China?? Passive filter??
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