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In Reply to: RE: Speculation posted by fmak on November 26, 2015 at 06:06:07
I've been using these particular batteries for over 5 years now in various digital & analogue devices so I have some direct experience from which I'm speculating. What started off as a seemingly healthy sceptical view seems more like a deep well of negativity.
But I don't want to enter a pissing contest with you - just let us know your impressions when & if you do the tweak.
Follow Ups:
My general experience with regard to batteries has been similar to fmak's. The have been nothing but a PITA in various applications. However, I have not tried the latest battery technology (unless it is hidden in one of my portable devices and so far, none of these has shown any miraculous properties as to reliability). In the past I had some really harsh demands on my batteries, namely powering avionics in my sailplane at high altitudes when it is very cold.
One thing I would like to see is measurements of noise on the output of the battery when it is being attacked by the type of load generated by computer logic (e.g. CMOS) where there is huge spikiness of the load at various frequencies depending on both hardware and software. I suspect this requires bypass right near the load, in any event since the inductance of the wiring between an ideal battery and the load would still leave noise.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
I agree and this is good practice.
To categorically say that no additional bypassing should be done when powering a usb chip thru a battery is theoretically and practically unsustainable. And to add that trickle charging by a power supply at the same time does not affect the operation or SQ is suspicious. All other battery power devices I have come across disconnect the charging power source when playing audio.
I actually get a big improvement in SQ powering the Regen with a 7.4V LiPO battery that should last for a long time.
In the days to come I shall directly power the Regen with a 3.3V LiFePO4 battery and a 3.3V Jung type regulator with preregulator, and compare/post sonic impressions.
My recent encounter with a major dealer's dead LiPO nano powered devices was a reminder that battery supplies do not last.
Anybody with half a brain cell left intact would know that there are bypass caps at the load i.e. at all the power pins of the USB Hub chip & on the PS input pin of the clock.In this thread, I am giving my long experience in using these batteries with chargers - you can be suspicious all you like about this but experience counts for a lot more than uninformed speculation.
I'm sure the people who try this will be able to report on the other thread who is correct & who is uninformed.
Edits: 11/27/15
Is 20 years longer than 5 years? What education and training in electronics do you have?A small capacitor next to the usb chip serves only as local hf bypass. Half a brain should know this.
You are advising everyone to bypass any of the protection afforded by the power supply chip in the Regen, and run an unrestrained high current dc supply into someone's expensive usb dac with no caution at all.
From a manufacturer, this is unacceptable advice.
Edits: 11/27/15
Are you trying to say you have 20 years experience using these LiFePo4 batteries - that would be some claim as the technology wasn't available to the public, 20 years ago.Why not plague some other thread with your BS or has everybody already cottoned onto you & ignores you?
It would seem that is the prudent thing to do - bye!
Edit: I see you edited your post since I replied. Yes local HF bypass is all that's needed. The battery itself acts as a very large capacitor with very low internal impedance & capability of delivering gobs of current as fast as required. The move of digital to lower voltages has resulted in higher current spikes & these batteries answer most, if not all of the requirements required for a good digital PS.
But then I expect you will come up with more BS speculative issues & snide remarks which will be ignored
Edits: 11/27/15 11/27/15 11/27/15 11/27/15
The issue I have with trickle charging the battery while listening to music is that there remains a potential coupling path for power line noise. This may or may not be a factor in any given environment, but it is at least a potential confounding variable and source of frustration.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Sure, Tony, I had the same thoughts when I first started on this journey with batteries - until I tried it :) They seem to also act as very large capacitors - capacitance in the Farads. The distinction between capacitors & batteries is becoming hazy - with Lithium capacitors 40F to 270F - the new term for these are energy storage devicesOthers have found no audible difference between charger connected or not in various configurations with various chargers & at least one poster here has reported the same - theob, on the other thread.
Edits: 11/27/15 11/27/15 11/27/15 11/27/15
Well, I started this thread to allow people investigate these batteries in this particular application. I can assure you that it improves the sound quality of the Regen many fold - much more than the difference between different PSes powering the Regen through its DC input.
I can also assure you that these batteries have been used on motherboards in the areas you mention (memory being one of the spikiest current devices) to great effect. Measurements - no? Audible differences - yes!
Did anybody read the paper I linked to?
Although it didn't specifically investigate the noise of this battery chemistry it did draw speculative conclusions based on the range of batteries it measured - namely the capacity of the battery had a bearing but particularly the internal impedance was a major factor in the noise of the battery.
As I asked Fmak before, did he know the internal impedance of these LiFePo4s. If anybody reads that paper I referenced & understands it, they will see that the internal impedance is the critical factor in both voltage noise & current noise of a battery.
So my question to Fmak was to check if he had done any research into these batteries or were his speculations based on uninformed guessing. The batteries are measured at below 8 milliohms internal impedance from which you draw your own conclusion
As to noise measurements - I doubt you will find any in the applications you
that 8 mOhm internal resistance is what makes a battery tick a sonic high.
As an audiophile I live for the days when I have a good powerline. On these days one can really assess if a tweak really is an improvement. Yesterday was such a day . I listened all day long until it ended. It was really a lot of fun. I can assuredly tell you that this tweak is magnificent.
Yea, it remains to be seen if others try this or if the naysayers frighten them off or others try it - time will tell
Hey, my parts are on the way. I will offer a clear objective and unbiased opinion of this upgrade/modification. I have NO friends or enemies here, no axes to grind. Although I am hoping for a marked sonic upgrade.
Lance A
Best to post on the listening impressions thread - this one is probably scuppered!
Maybe I should just make a post on this thread to bring it to the top of the list & act as a magnet for those who are compelled to post "noise" - consider it like one of those ultraviolet fly zapper traps?
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