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In Reply to: RE: Improved Regen sound posted by jkeny on November 23, 2015 at 12:47:00
This'll be my last post on the subject.
PLEASE, by all and any means, try the WIKI on Lithium Batteries. Find a cell with higher than required voltage and Than see if you can dig out the discharge curve. I've got lots on my plate (so to speak) and while I'd love to get into the minutia of your dilemma, I simply don't have the free time.
A few sources for discrete regulator information may be either DIY Audio or perhaps Elliot Sound Products. Paul Hynes didn't INENT this category, but does it well.
If you are interested in 3.3v OPEN CIRCUIT, I don't offhand know of an exact match. Some are higher, some are lower.
Knowledge of the tolerance of the circuit may also help choose a battery. Some electronics may work at -+0.2v given a 3.3v nominal. Something along those lines:
Too much is never enough
Follow Ups:
Hey pictureguy, again you seem to have the wrong end of the stick - maybe you are reading too fast & not comprehending? Your replies, although they seemed to promise a knowledgeable source of information on batteries, now seem more confusing than enlightening.
I don't have ANY dilemma - I find the LiFePO4 batteries perfect for my requirements & perfectly suited to the PS roles I have used them in. A 3.3V open-circuit is perfect using these & provides substantial advantages.
I don't believe there are any alternatives which match the characteristics of LiFePO4s & you seemed to hint at knowledge of this area but no worries.
Thanks anyway for your input
You want someone to TELL you what you need to know.
I want, or would desire you, to do some research. Everything is out there for your reading pleasure.
If you are happy with the current (no pun intended) situation, why bother to write?
Too much is never enough
Wow, you really do not comprehend my post sor what the thread is about, do you?
Sure, easy.
You don't like regulators and have replaced it with a battery which to you sounds much better.
So what? You mentioned some guy who I looked up and he does make some neat looking discreet regulators. You said they were too much $$, even though a fixed cost rather than a recurring cost of battery replacement and the hassle of recharging. I get the impression you think THOSE sound OK, or is that mistook?
Now what?
Too much is never enough
So this is why this place is called the "asylum" !!
Edits: 11/24/15
More subjective comments: after listening for 7 hours I am convinced that timbre has never been better in my system. This is especially noticed on good piano recordings. Almost lost is the superb bass: tight yet full. The other thing is air around everything. It is really enjoyable to have such a major impact on sound from just knowledge (thanks Jkeny) and minimal work. Can a single Regen be even better?
Thanks for the reprt, Theob - yes they are all the SQ characteristics that I have heard with this tweak.
Can a single Regen can be better? I suspect so but only trying it will sort this out
I will get there its just a matter of time. Other obligations in this US holiday week.
Sure, I wasn't pressurising you, just answering your post
No offence taken.
One more comment on the sonics. All instruments seem to emanate from a smaller space within the larger acoustic. As a result the imaging is phenomenal. Especially in a well recorded classical piece. I have one of those Spring music...4 Seasons et al.... files. One cut is a Vivaldi movement for mandolin and orchestra. You can almost guess the distances between instruments. You see the space.
Edits: 11/24/15
theob,
I would love to see a photo of your Regen board wired up with the bypass. Not that jkeney's original board photo and very clear descriptions won't get the job done, but things always feel better with a photo of the done deal.
Thanks Guys.
Send me an email
Chopper87@aol.com
Thanks a bunch! I just finished ordering some of the batteries and an appropriate charger. Your photo/s will help my confidence that I am doing it correctly.
Lance A
theobetley@gmail.com
My theory is that the solidity of the soundscape is the result of the lower low frequency noise of the battery & the resultant lower close-in phase noise of the clock but it's only a theory
I don't doubt the perceptions, but the theory seems somewhat incomplete. The problem is that the clock is the USB bit clock. Phase noise has nothing to do with phase noise modulating the audio clock, because this clock is at a totally unrelated frequency. A possible theory might add that the regulator noise caused jitter in the USB bit clock affects the USB receiver circuitry's power consumption. This is related to John S's theory of how the REGEN works to improve sound quality, but as far as I know this is just speculation as there is no hard evidence of what is going on.
We do know that noise on the REGEN power can be coupled into the analog output of some DACs in the form of common mode noise. This noise appears at the packet clock rate (8 kHz), indicating that the regulation isn't sufficiently stiff.
It beats me why DAC designers don't deal with these issues. There is no excuse for any 8 kHz noise to appear in the output of any USB DAC, regardless of the input signal, assuming only that the input signal conforms to the USB specification.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Why the usb interface is used without recognising the noise problems?
Yes, Tony, sorry my theory was a more general observation about what the characteristic improvements in SQ I have perceived Vs what I believe is the underlying cause of them.I find that the solidity & pinpoint placement of instruments in soundstage seems to emanate from reduction in close-in phase noise although I haven't measured this. However, what often accompanies such reduction in phase noise is also a reduction in the playback system noise. So these two factors are often interwoven & difficult to separate. The reduction in general playback system noise gives an impression of better realism to the sonic illusion.
Now, how exactly these two possible mechanisms are the result of using the Regen & improved by the battery tweak, I'm not sure - it seems to me that improving the digital signal does result in improved sonics but by what mechanism, I'm not sure. My simplistic thinking was that improving the PS to the USB clock was contributing to a better formed USB signal waveform being output from the Regen. Of course improving the Regen's PS also reduces noise on the output signal of the Regen. So, again we have an intertwining of mechanisms.
JS's speculation on how the Regen works was dealt a significant blow, in my mind, when JW (John Westlake) revealed that there is no ramping up of current in the USB PHY when dealing with progressively worsening signal integrity of the USB signal - no such mechanism exists in USB 2.0 receivers, only in USB receivers designed to handle USB 3. So, although I was initially a supported of the JS theory of operation - it seems less accurate to me now
But then theory is great but observation comes first or as an ex prime minister of ours used to say - that works in practise, now let's see if it works in theory :)
As regards CM noise - it's a lesser known issue on USB audio devices - most designers only consider differential noise & conclude that the differential USB receiver will take care of that, mistakenly, in my view. CM noise just isn't often on their radar
Edits: 11/25/15
In these days of rapid accumulation of knowledge in just about everything, it seems that we are even less capable of resolving mutlti parameter issues in software/hardware performance. In fact, the reverse is the case in that we now seem to latch on one thing or another, and simply speculate.
You might not know who JK is. I think he REALLY knows what he is talking about, and does not need any help. :)
Since you posted the in depth post on batteries maybe it was thought you had a direct relationship with the Energizer Bunny and could reveal some trade secrets, not just reference Wikipedia.
Regards
Bob
Wouldn't know JK if he ran over me in a crosswalk. Am I supposed to know him?
I was trying to simply help him find a better battery. Battery measurables include internal resistance and of course the voltage / output curve which for JK's purposes, needs to be as flat as possible. Given the huge number of Li and Lion chemistries, I'm not about to plow thru it looking for what is probably a marginal improvement, though you could get lucky. The battery chemistry which JK uses is from the 'dawn' of the Lithium technology and may have been bettered in ways that matter to HIM.
Too much is never enough
Where did I say I was looking to find a better battery??
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