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Anyone have or planning to buy the new Auralic Aries Mini streamer? It's relatively inexpensive and I'd like to get your take on it.
The article at AudioStream says they retail for $399 USD but most places I've checked show $549. Was there a price hike or does the $549 price cover the "free" 1 year promo subscription to Tidal?
And who actually has them in stock? I've heard that they're back ordered until next year.
Follow Ups:
Best thread I've read in along time. Entertains and shows manny points of view.
I will add my two cents that I want a streamer that is not astromically priced, lets me use my own dac, works without drops, has a good interface and will work with any service whether it be tidal Deezer or whatever else comes down the pike.
Is this too much to ask?
The Elacs streamer may fit that bill but who knows when it will come out. It will have Roon for what it's worth
Yeah, I want a "streamer" that supports every service, too. In the meantime there is a solution. It's called a computer. ;-)
Your "computer" will only Stream Deezer Elite if it's a Squeezebox or a Sonos.And my favorite feature of LMS is the "Smart Mix" pluggin that will play similar music as the track you are listening to. It's pretty much how I listen to music these days. Please tell me if you know of something better?
Cut-Throat
Edits: 11/24/15
You need a Sonos or a Squeezebox to stream Deezer Elite? Talk about highly restricted and limiting market share potential. Hmm, what if one does not want a Sonos or Squeezebox? ;-)
The main thing you need is LMS... And again my main feature of LMS is the Pluggin called "Smart Mix"... And I asked do you know of a similar product?Also, the Deezer Elite restriction to Sonos, is temporary. They will eventually open it up to the U.S. as they have the other 180 countries.
Cut-Throat
Edits: 11/24/15
And you're right, it doesn't exist yet. So, I continue to use SB Touches (And no I don't think they're the ultimate streamer)
Cut-Throat
Fuck forcing tidal. There are plenty of cheaper lossless services.
I'm not saying they don't exist. I'm just curious to know who they are. Tidal has gotten a lot of press and is well known, but who are the others?
Tidal partnering with some 'high-end' manufacturers is a brilliant idea and not an uncommon 'co-marketing' scheme. It benefits both partners, unless it backfires.
Personally, I don't like the fact that Auralic raised their price from $399 to $549 and as a consumer I can only assume that the price hike was to cover for the so-called "free" Tidal bundle.
Perhaps Auralic was too quick in announcing their $399 Aries Mini price to the press then changing their marketing tactics and raising the price. A bit of a foot fault on the first serve, IHMO.
You can get Deezer Elite (As I did). You can get a yearly Subscription which amounts to about $10 a month. What I did was buy a Sonos Connect and signed up for Deezer Elite (A sales deal)... I returned the Sonos, but still have a Subscription to Deezer Elite, which I run on my SB Touch via Ickstream.
Pretty Soon Deezer Elite will be available to everyone in the States. I did use it in the Bahamas last winter.
Cut-Throat
I got the Wyred 4 Sound modified Sonos connect, it is bliss. Why to these people in the music industry make it so much work and hacking away for us?
Good day.
that's what I pay for.
Fuck forcing Deezer Elite. ;-)I have no need for Sonos and don't plan to "game the system" to get the service then return the Sonos.
I am interested only in legit services and legit ways of subscribing.
Having to buy a Sonos to get Deezer Elite in the US is more "bullshit" than bundling Tidal with the Auralic Aries Mini. Just say'n.
Edits: 11/21/15 11/21/15
Sonos supports Tidal as well,
sorry I am grumpy today, apologies :)
if you register as a SONOS customer and list your address in Europe, but...
No Rhapsody for YOU, if you do!
I sub to Google Music and Deezer Elite.I'm in the US though. I used to sub to Rhapsody, they were one of the first companies that got it, that vision.
About 20% of the music I listen to isn't available on the "major" services, however the labels are very very very very very small, so that's understandable. Bandcamp.com makes up for that, and Sonos has a Bandcamp app as well.
btw: I'm on bandcamp, name your price of $0 for my album :)
Edits: 11/21/15
Typical of these companies, they produce a product and then when sales are lukewarm they realize that it's grossly overpriced for all that it delivers. So they come out with their "mini" or "light" version and pretend that it's inferior in sound, hence the lower price point.
Like most of the devices in this product category, it's little more than an ARM microcomputer running Linux and open source software, with a DAC chip and a couple of full sized audio connectors. It's at least double or triple the price that it should be. Yet it will appeal to some audiophiles who think that a $600 component is suitable for background listening in the garage.
What did you think of how it sounded? You have heard one?
Alan
nt
Cut-Throat
It's going to replace a Pioneer N-50 in a modest outdoor system for my patio. Sound quality isn't that important for this application, but I will give it a try in my main system.
The reason why I'm buying it is that I have a Linn streamer in my main system and another in my HT system and I love how they work, but they offer nothing at the low end. Auralic have basically copied the Linn feature set, even using some Linn software, and on paper it should integrate seamlessly with what I have. Some of the key features for me are:
- Integration of Tidal, can mix local and Tidal content in same playlist
- OpenHome extensions e.g. current playlist is stored on the player not the control point, multiple devices sharing a playlist, and proper gapless
- Songcast and AirPlay support. Songcast is Linn's version of AirPlay mirroring but it's cross-platform and is used to distribute audio between players in multi-room setups.
- TuneIn
Thanks for the additional detail. I like the Auralic feature set too especially the integration with Tidal, but one of my concerns is the robustness of the control point App (on iPad in my case) and how well polished it might be. I'd hate to get the Auralic only to find the App to be an after thought clunker.
I have 2 Apple TV boxes in our home that do a great job of sharing my local Music content over Ethernet or Wifi from my Mac Mini (by turning ON iTunes Sharing), and it also has support for Panadora built-in. I can stream Spotify as well but that has to be done via AirPlay. These little black Apple TV boxes are a mere $69 each and the user interface is clean and polished, and they're fine especially in secondary audio systems.
The Apple TV downside vs Auralic Mini for audio:
- Supports up to 16/48 uncompressed or lossless but not 'hi-res'. But will down sample 'hi-res' content so it will at least play. Does not support DSD but I have so little DSD content and have no plans for more.
- No integration with Tidal.
- Requires an external DAC (or AV receiver) via Toslink or HDMI.
I'm trying to justify the Auralic Aries Mini at $549 which seems rather steep, but with a year of Tidal maybe not so bad. And I'll be able to play around with how it performs on my 'hi-res' files.
Did/does ITunes have to be up and running as well for that? I seem to remember not, - that it was just looking the AIFF files on the NAS: but I may have been mistaken ...
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
In my experience Roon offers the best integration of Tidal content with your music library. It is for all intents and purposes, seamless. While user interface preference is clearly a matter of taste, I also find Roon to be miles better than any other I've tried.
Word has it that Roon integration with devices like the Auralic Aries mini is in the works and may be available by year's end. In my opinion, this will be a game changer since you will be able to control multiple Roon-enabled devices, an Aries mini, a Mac, a Melco server, scattered around your home through the same Roon app all having access to the same library(ies).
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
Thanks Michael -
When I first read about Roon I didn't see the value as I'm not in need of all that additional 'metadata' like artist bios, lyrics, reviews, concerts, credits… etc., combined into a "surfable, searchable digital magazine about your music."
However, I do tend to search my music visually with album art vs text titles and long lists of tracks in text form. The visual aspect of a "control app" on the iPad with easy navigation and ability to control multiple devices is of great value to me.
Another important factor will be the sound quality from Roon on the Mac vs Audirvana Plus. I've read on another forum that Roon wasn't quite there sonically unless it was run in a server / slave mode or something to that effect by offloading metadata tasks from running on the same computer as the audio engine.
The sound quality of Roon is quite good on the Mac. As with all software, system synergism exists.
But Roon can run Integer mode with your QB9 DSD.
Good to know. Thanks Steve.
Speaking of software for OSX, Pure Music 3.03 sounds really great with the Ayre Codex.
Steve, will you be reviewing the Ayre Codex? What is the MSRP for that piece?
Also, I hardly see any Ayre dealers online. I wonder if Charles is an old guard traditionalist who prefers brick and mortar stores.
Yes, The Codex is here for review. From what I understand, Ayre is sold only through authorized dealers.
Looking forward to your review.
P.S. I wish these popular little desktop DACs / headphone amps all came with remote controls. That's my personal little nit on these products.
If it is on your desk within reach... Why do you need a remote?
Mine would be on the audio shelf across the room from my desk. It's not a big room but my arm isn't 9 feet long.The least they can do is bundle one of these for the Volume control knob:
Edits: 11/21/15
My pleasure Abe.
Roon came out with Roon Server a while back, which to my ears, offered improved sound quality. I use Roon and have no issues with its sound quality. I'm also very visually oriented and Roon is the king of that hill, imo.
Two of the features I enjoy with Roon; the ability to "add" Tidal content to my library with a few clicks, and the ability to tap on most any album or song credit, my favorites being songwriter and sidemen, and see where else they appear in my library. For songs, the app also shows you (and links to) other versions in your library.
I also find that the optional Roon Radio feature, which continues to play 'related' music after your current selection is done, digs up music I hadn't thought about for years in addition to introducing to music I didn't know (Radio includes Tidal content as well as your music).
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
In addition to the Auralic Lightning DS app, there's also BubbleDS, Linn Kazoo, and Lumin. These are all designed to work with a DLNA renderer that supports the OpenHome extensions.
The Lumin app is my favorite but it's iPad only. When I don't have that handy because my wife or daughter is using it, I use BubbleDS on my Sony phone or Asus tablet. Or if I have my laptop, Linn Kazoo. Because the current playlist is stored on the player, you can close a control point and things keep playing, and then you can open a different control point and pick up where you left off.
Thanks for the additional info Dave.
Being visually oriented toward navigating my music collection mostly with album art, are the apps you mentioned user friendly in a visual way?
To give you an example, I run my iPad displaying a screen full of album art. With a flick of a finger I can rapidly scroll up or down as the album art flies by on the screen. I can easily spot the album I want and launch it for playback. Of course there are other ways to search but this method is very quick for me as I can easily and very quickly recognize albums by their covers.
Most streamer reviews and forum discussions focus around the hardware and sonics but what drives usability of these devices is IMHO extremely dependent upon the user-facing software / apps.
I was looking at some screen shots of the Lumin app online.
What are you using as your player and storage?
I humbly suggest that you read a little between the lines of what Dave is saying.
You said that the software is important to you, and I agree. With me the demands are pretty high, (as with you IMO). Of course, part of the sound of the overall player is the software, and how does it compare to Amarra, Pure Music, Jplay, Jriver etc. on a commercial computer. Usuability is, DB organization, whether or not it does Internet radio or just connects to a LAN or ext HD.
Yes the SBT is dead. But LMS is not. LMS is a very dynamic, contstantly improved, well supported, with many, many, users and developers. In short, LMS has grown beyond any brand of hardware.
It is a big feature, in the plus column, that one can use different software if they don't like LDS.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
The Lumin app has the standard icon grid view displaying album covers which you can scroll or flick through, or you can use the alphabetical shortcuts that pop up when you start scrolling. It also has a list view with small album cover icons, and a list view that also includes the songs in each album. You can sort by genre, artist, album title, song title. And search. The other two apps I mentioned have similar interfaces.
I have a bunch of different players. A Linn Akurate DS in my main stereo system, and a Linn Majik DS in my HT system. I got the Majik over 5 years ago when I was moving to Australia for work and didn't want to move a library of discs. It's what got me hooked on streaming. I also have an Oppo 103 and a Marantz AV8801 in the HT system which are DLNA renderers but I don't usually use their streaming capabilities for music. The other DLNA renderers are a Pioneer N-50 which was previously in my HT and now used for the outdoor speakers, and a Pioneer SMA3 portable speaker, which is wireless, weatherproof, and rechargeable.
The Linn streamers support OpenHome, the others do not. So I use BubbleUPnP server installed on my NAS to turn the vanilla DLNA 1.5 renderers into OpenHome renderers, so that all my players work basically the same way.
Regarding storage, I've been a home NAS proponent since 2008 or 2009. I started with a cheap single drive NAS as a proof of concept, and then moved up to a HP EX495 in 2010 which I absolutely loved. This year, I replaced it with a new mini-ITX home server build and I'm running Windows Server 2012 R2 Essentials for the OS and Twonky Server for DLNA. I'm using storage pools and the main pool is 24TB which stores all my music, all of our family photos and videos, all of our important documents and files from the last 20 years, and all our DVDs (but not Blu-Rays). All data is duplicated in the pool (a copy of every file exists on 2 physical drives). I keep local and offsite backups of everything but the DVDs.
We also use DLNA for streaming photos and videos around the house. Mainly we access them via a couple of Rokus in the HT and bedroom, occasionally via the Oppo, and via an old Phillips streamer we picked up in Australia connected to a portable TV.
Hi Abe,
Auralic has changed the pricing of the Aries mini to $549 which includes one year of Tidal.
Cheers,
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
With one year of Tidal I guess that's not so bad. Thanks Michael.
I looked at this Last Spring and concluded that a Used Squeezebox Touch on E-Bay would be a far better use of your $400. ---- Read the comments (Which are more helpful than the review) on the link you provided. I even made a few. The Teac Streamer looks more promising, that is due out soon.Cut-Throat
Edits: 11/19/15
From what I could gather on the product page, the only network audio it supports is DLNA 1.5 over Ethernet and the only wireless it supports is Bluetooth. Support for online music services is via the rudimentary phone app which streams to the player.
The Teac is for people who want a headphone amp/USB DAC combo primarily. I can't see anyone buying it to use it as a network audio player.
If that is the case with the Teac, I'll keep looking....The network Player market is very, very weak.
Cut-Throat
I didn't see anything too informative in the comments section after the AudioStream article.... No offense but it was mostly comments by a bunch of people clutching their beloved end-of-life'd SB Touches. That's understandable but it doesn't help me at all with how the Aries Mini functions or performs.As for the Teac, it may well be a great sounding streamer with all the right boxes checked in the specs table but in the world of streamers, I think the user interface for the control app on a phone or tablet are incredibly important. The Teac's looked pretty bare bones minimalist and almost an afterthought, but there are probably other apps that will work on it.
Edits: 11/19/15
Well, As far as I know, the Auralic streams your Music Files (Big Deal, they all do that).... I don't think it has the ability to stream music services other than Tidal (Which I tried, but is pretty lame).And there is a reason that people love their SB Touches. They work, and nothing has been developed to take their place. Also, I have not seen a better App than LMS as far as controlling your music Player.
I keep wishing that someone would develop an Audiophile Music Player better than the SB Touch. One that can Stream all music services, Has a much better power supply and NO on-board DAC etc. - Until then I will continue to use my SB Touches. There is just no Replacement yet.
Cut-Throat
Edits: 11/19/15 11/19/15
I'm still have 4 Duets.
One is brand new and unopened, one runs analogue out for the kitchen, one digital out for the main living area and one needs a doctor.
I have 4 SB Touches. 1 in my Main Listening area on my Lower Level, 1 in my Great Room, 1 in my Den and 1 in my Shop. Been using them for 5 years now.
Cut-Throat
... the tendency is... was... to get some more, and I find it very easy to keep them.
With an external DAC it's very good and I really like the controller, not being big on using a phone for that.
I had bought two extra players off eBay and then got a completely new one for $170 before the prices started going up.
Sonore: Sonic Orbiter, Signature Rendu, and upcoming Micro Rendu.Not going to have LCD screens, touch screens, or connect & stream via wifi.
But they do run LMS, and will have Internet radio and streaming apps/services: all at much higher quality.
You asked for higher quality, and to do so, you have to let go of those other features. No one has built another SBT, and no one will, because it can't be done for that price. Aurilic, (if they tried), was a more notable failure. Their hardware is not-so-much, and it would be a stretch to call their software mediocre.
The SBT may be end-of-life, but LMS is great, widely used, and well supported. I would love to get someone's Aries Mini and compare it to an SBT with the screen defeated & with LPS: I would bet that it would be a close contest....
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Edits: 11/19/15
Aurilic [sic], (if they tried), was a more notable failure. Their hardware is not-so-much, and it would be a stretch to call their software mediocre.Can you elaborate with some details? I am truly curious about the Auralic Aries Mini. Have you any experience with any of their streamers or can you point out any of their "failures" or notable deficiencies in their software?
I just looked at a 6Moons review of their higher-end streamers and screen shots of their software interface looks pretty spartan. Do you know if they've improved it at all?
Edits: 11/19/15
I borrowed an Aries for a few days.The sound quality was appreciably better than my MacMini, - with what I'd describe as faster, smoother, more lifelike bass response in the low mids and upper bass area. I did notice that sometimes that it was a bit hot in the lower treble region that seemed to overemphasize a singer's "S's"
The noise floor was a lot lower than the Macmini. And most of the folks who heard it were non-audiophiles and they were in agreement about the improved SQ. However, - it's plastic, - the display is just ugly and not defeatable. I experienced start up issues that others have had. No LDS software for Iphone or Android....
I buy for sound quality, - so I wouldn't be unhappy buying it. But I promised myself that I would research-to-death my next purchase.
My criticisms of the Aries Mini are not based on listening, and therefore, just speculative... First they put a DAC in it. All the connectors are junk, no offer of a better PSU. Using cheaper hardware to make up for adding software, especially when the software isn't that great, is a bad move. IMO Tidal sucks, & it's a super bad call to force it upon people....
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Edits: 11/20/15
I use Tidal every day and would not want to live without it. So I'm puzzled when you say "Tidal sucks". Care to explain?
Also, when you say, "...it's a super bad call to force it upon people", what are you talking about?
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
The quality is lower (and not easily measured) than building your own files.
It encourages homogenized content
They do not pay
It is empty, and devoid, of many artists & styles of music.
It is offensive to artists, who should be national treasures, to be demoted and oppressed (with their work) to the category of a subservient commodity: that serves to increase the wealth of a precious few in the ruling class.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
""It is offensive to artists, who should be national treasures, to be demoted and oppressed (with their work) to the category of a subservient commodity: that serves to increase the wealth of a precious few in the ruling class. ""
This sounds pretty grim... I thought music was a happy thing...
Gulag Acapella...
Streaming was supposed to be the move to making everything available all the time to everyone.
At least within reasonable limits.
But that hasn't worked out at all it seems.
When Taylor Swift released her last album, sales took up 22% of the entire US market in its first week.
Now the download market is apparently in retreat even before most consumers have really got to grips with it, and I can't figure the economic model for Tidal and the others from the artists' point of view at all.
But now Adele's new album is expected to supersede Taylor Swift's figures.
I have nothing at all against those artists but I do have something against a system which has the effect of reducing the range of product and that certainly seems to be the effect today.
Interesting.I find the quality varies depending on your network/system. Having access to Tidal's library far outweighs any perceived sonic shortcomings (which I do not perceive), imo.
As far as encouraging homogenized content, my experience is the exact opposite - I've never discovered more music that's new to me across many genres. My feeling is it depends on the user.
Of course they pay, you must mean you feel they don't pay enough. This argument is applicable to every online streaming source so to suggest "Tidal sucks" because of it is misstating your point.
Yes, their catalog does not include everything. There's no such thing as one that does. You may very well find Spotify or Deezer to have more of the music you are interested in, which is fine (although seeing how you feel about the streaming business model, I'd imagine you don't use any of them). I find Tidal's catalog works very well for me.
Again, you are not talking about Tidal, you are talking about the streaming business model. In my opinion, free streaming is the largest problem in terms of the ability to provide meaningful compensation to the people behind the music. Of course there are many other issues including the fact that millions of dollars in streaming revenue sits with the major labels because they can't match a 'play' with an artist.
So yea, there are real issues with the streaming business model. To say "Tidal sucks" does not communicate what you seem to be trying to say.
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
Edits: 11/20/15
Is mostly a very Limited catalog for the music I listen to (Mostly Jazz).. This is compared to Spotify and Deezer. Also the Tidal Search engine has much to be desired. I can't quite remember but I also think that Tidal Subscription was twice as much as Deezer and Spotify.
There are just much better streaming solutions for less money.
Cut-Throat
It is twice as much $$, is it twice as better in sound quality? No its not!
I wouldn't give those bastards a dime they have enough friggin money.
Not from me. My opinion of course.
Welcome to the wonderful world of audio, where spending twice as much money rarely gives you twice the sound.
Oh I agree, been in this for 40 years, Tidal is a pet peeve.
But but but.... Spotify, Pandora, Amazon Music, Apple Music, Google Music (or whatever they call themselves), etc. do not stream 16/44 uncompressed CD quality. Isn't Tidal one of the very few that streams true "CD quality" ?
I have Spotify and Pandora and the content is great but it's no where close to CD quality that I get from my own rips..... I would hope that Tidal is on par or very close.
Deezer Elite is also Lossless, which I use and has a much better catalog than Tidal.... I also use Spotify which is 320 kbps.... I would not bet MY money that I could tell the diff in a blind test. I like the Pluggins for LMS that have been written for Spotify.
Cut-Throat
For me, the Tidal catalog is pretty good. I used to be a Spotify user. When Tidal first rolled out, I hung on to Spotify because the Tidal catalog had a lot of holes. But they've been plugging away at it and somewhere around the middle of the year I decided to ditch Spotify because almost everything I look for is on Tidal now.
My only complaint with Tidal is the search. Really, it's bad. A search function that can't handle a single character spelling error is pathetic. They really need to fix that.
But I'm digging the Tidal integration. While Tidal was silently collaborating with several high end companies to integrate their service, including Auralic, Spotify was holding all the manufacturers back while they developed their proprietary solution, Spotify Connect, which IMO turned out to be a dud. Spotify really has their heads in 2012, which in streaming terms makes them a dinosaur. They seem to think they are important enough that users and manufacturers will come to them, and don't seem to appreciate that music steaming services are fungible. For example, expecting people to still use their app. No thanks.
I think I paid about $14.99 for DEEZER ELITE (Lossless FLAC) and $19.99 for TIDAL, same bit depth.
Spotify something like $10 for 320kbps MP3?
Liking ClassicsOnlineHD, forget how much that will be after the free trial period.
Have dropped the DEEZER and Spotify and living with TIDAL, QOBUZ and ClassicsOnlineHD for now.
Clearly ClassicsOnlineHD is a keeper if only because of the 'Advanced Search' feature. Sorry, no Rock-n-Roll. :-(
I got Deezer Elite for about $10 a month, when I signed up for 1 year..... And I still use Spotify... Frankly I can't tell that much difference (If Any) between Spotify and Lossless. I really like Spotify because of the Pluggins written like 'Smart Mix' that serves up new music based on the track I specify.
Cut-Throat
Me neither, but PLEASE don't tell anyone!
Because, AUDIOPHILE!
nt
Cut-Throat
That's because you use a Squeezebox!
(joke ;-)
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
nt
Cut-Throat
Hi Ivan,
I'm curious - as you approach your 33,000th post on Audio Asylum, if you're not an audiophile, what are you?
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
Well possibly to annoy people with a giant cat who has since been retired... ;)
Plus, even in my 7th decade on this earth, I seem to have retained more of my sense of humor that those here fraction of my age. ;-)
Not saying you take yourself too seriously, Michael, but...
Audio isn't a REAL hobby, like say PHOTOGRAPHY, is it?
OK, Ken Rockwell writes about both, so there's that.
I prefer Norman Rockwell.
I'm 60+ and have nearly NO sense of humor. Except the weird stuff I find funny, which does not have a broad audience.
I've been a phtotogrpaher at many levels since I was maybe 10 or 12 years old. Father bought me a camera for a reward after slaving away around the house one summer. It was an Argus C3. And while not interchangeable lens, it was a good picture taker and good learning tool. I started doing my own B&W at the same time.
Audio came by the time I was about 18, going to College, though we always had music in the house. I'm not an equipment changer, either. I can pretty much remember everything I ever owned from my FIRST setup courtesy of Lafayette! I kept the Dual 1209 bought at that time thru the next several itererations.
Too much is never enough
Did Boxing Photography as a hobby and in support of a professional boxing writer here on the west coast in the late 70's.(British Boxing News the last weekly boxing publication).
No more. Still have friends who haven't kicked the habit.
Still have a 135mm f4 Elmar around somewhere, but the single stroke M3 it went with is long gone.
Several adaptors exist for Leica Glass to modern Digital bodies. This is still a great lens, though NO automation. Any serious photographer (like me, for example) would love to have this lens.
Too much is never enough
Of course audio is a real hobby. You've spent over 32,000 posts talking about it ;-)
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
VEEKTOR!
;-)
;-)
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
Which had nothing to do with audio and was mostly about politics. I do miss the outside....And the Green door did not suffice.
Cut-Throat
No?
nt
Cut-Throat
Ah yes, Only 3,300 posts on audio, give or take. Point taken.
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
I don't know what your talking about, but please inform me. I am running Deezer Elite with Ickstream.
So, what is the "Squeeze2 UPnP bridge" for?
Cut-Throat
It is a plugin that you install in Squeezebox server that allows one to connect UPnP based devices to your Squeezebox LMS & world. I am still asking questions about it and researching. But I am hoping, (for Aries) that when you switch over from OpenHome to UPnP with the Aries, = it'll show up as just another Squeezebox device in the Squeezebox IPAD app.
For example, = (different plug-in). The BBC World service went off the air because they changed their streaming method, (forget what it was). So folks in the Squeezebox community wrote a plug-in that you install in LMS that now streams BBC in AAC format.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Apparently so. I have a used Aries on the way and I am going to try running it with LMS.
I am confused as to what function this pluggin provides. Do you have a link to the pluggin that explains it? I have installed quite a few pluggins... Some of the most useful are Triode Spotify and Smartmix
Cut-Throat
Link attached.....
You'll see any UPnP enable player as another squeezebox device, just like a SqueezeRadio or SBT.
I don't have the Aries here anymore, so I likely will install this over the Thanksgiving break.
I also don't really need a feel a need to add this plugin until I'm sure it's needed. If I go with Sonore, - it will not be...
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
I completely understand the catalog objection. It's also a very personal thing. As I said, the Tidal catalog works for me.
Tidal costs the same as everyone else unless you opt for their CD-quality service. I have to admit to being surprised that this distinction has not been mentioned since some people are talking about sound quality.
So no, there are not "much better streaming solutions for less money". Unless you think everyone has the exact same taste in music as you ;-)
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
Yes, I opted for CD quality service and Deezer Elite (which is the same quality) is half the price.
Cut-Throat
...in the US as far as I know.
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
you can then download an app/player which will allow you to stream DEEZER in Lossless FLAC much like TIDAL and QOBUZ.
At least that's how I mostly used it as the SONOS has little or no cache/buffer so drop outs are frequent when everyone in the neighborhood is either downloading Netflix or porn. :-(
I ordered a Sonos and promptly subscribed to Deezer Elite..... I was then able to access Deezer Elite on my Squeezbox Touch via Ickstream. I sent the Sonos back after trying it out for a couple weeks, but I still have my Deezer Elite Subscription.
There is no doubt in my mind that Deezer Elite will be available to everyone in the States Soon.
Cut-Throat
Sure. I hope Deezer Elite does become available, unchained to Sonos, in the US. Competition is good for everyone.
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
Edits: 11/20/15
Yeah... I did... (I am one busted little troll)You're right...streaming services.... not good. It doesn't follow the model of the traditional music listening enthusiast, - "my music."
You are correct that I mean that the artist doesn't get paid enough. It encourages formulaic, homogenized content because the artist isn't getting paid enough to be unique, - someone playing someone else's songs. When you don't get paid enough, you've got to sell more in order to continue, or eat.
Sigur Ros, Brian Eno, Frank Zappa, Joy Division, Dead Can Dance, if they were first coming out, could never have a place to be in this world....
Certainly streaming services vary in quality. But, hey, who needs another Chesky records? Chesky had great quality recordings, but who cares if/when they have no interesting content?
PS> love your work....
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Edits: 11/20/15
I still buy CDs at about the same rate as I did before streaming services. The streaming services have just made it more convenient to surf for new music. I went from surfing YouTube and listening on my computer speakers, to surfing YouTube and/or Spotify on my laptop and streaming via AirPlay or Songcast to my system, to having Tidal integrated and treated the same as my local content. Convenience and sound quality is a lot better obviously. I still like using YouTube because the related video links sometimes send me off in unexpected and interesting directions, but don't use it as much anymore because of Tidal.
These days, I still buy CDs for two reasons:
Number one, to make sure that I will always have a copy of music that I really like. Online services and their content will come and go. I learned that lesson from Netflix. At one point it seemed like we could rent every movie we could think of from their DVD by mail service, but that selection has declined a lot in recent years and their streaming service has a worthlessly miniscule catalog.
Number two, if I really like a lesser known band, I want to vote for them with my wallet. Especially if they're on an independent label.
So although streaming services have changed some of my habits, and I buy more downloads than I used to relative to CDs, I still buy music at about the same rate as before.
when I buy a used CD from an Amazon Seller for a buck or two plus the cost of media mail shipping?
Or worse, but a 50 year old used LP?
At the end of the day, streaming will 'save' the music business, not destroy it.
I'm just trying to better understand your point of view. And I do. So thank you for the exchange.When I'm looking for new music on Tidal, the first thing I click on is "Tidal Rising". If you look at the selection you are presented with, I think you may very well change your opinion. Then again, maybe not.
Thank you for the kind words on my work.
Cheers,
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
Edits: 11/20/15
I tossed in melodrama.....
Sorry about that....
I carry some bitterness that substantial songwriting success in the music business has not made me successful enough to stop working a day job. I could blame early 2000s .mp3 uploading, short term myopic business practices of robber-baron labels, American Idol, shifts in listening habits, or my own inability to express what was in my head onto magnetic tape: likely the latter is most at play.
Point is, streaming isn't the only thing....
Cheers,
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
I think artists have been screwed by the the music business since the beginning of time. Some things never change.
The mid-to late 70s was certainly a "better" time for aspiring artists. That doesn't mean that people were not being screwed over by the "industry."
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
I had no idea you were a songwriter. I wish you continued, and better, success.
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
I appreciate your criticisms of the Aries Mini with built-in DAC and cheap connectors but as you know Auralic has their higher-end models w/o the DAC so they have that covered. I think they built the Mini to a price point as an attractive entry point into streaming.
While sound quality is important to me, the user facing software is just as important. If I were in this for sound quality alone, it wouldn't matter what clunky software I used. I have a reasonably large Library and I don't spend hours on end playing one or two tunes to listen to my system. ;-) [Not implying that you do, but some folks here seem to]. I use my system to listen to tunes, so managing them all is very important.
So "computer based audio" or "streaming audio" HAS TO include a great user interface otherwise it's just not worth the hassle to me.
I'm on the fence with Tidal and figured $549 for the Aries WITH a year of Tidal isn't so bad for something new to "play with". I'm still researching and just looking for something new. I don't want to dump a ton of cash into a high-end streamer. I may decide to play with Roon instead.
Sticking a DAC in the product cannot be described in any other way but stupid.
They fail to realize that the Squeezebox system is two parts, the player and the server software. If they're going to build a sub-500 box, - it better have a "better" LPS, it better have high quality connectors.
The Aurilic Aries does not have a big footprint.
Perhaps I'm being negative and harsh, - but if the Aries Mini doesn't sound exactly as good as, (and just speculating, does anyone think that it will)?, the regular Aries, - why do it? The Aries does Tidal too. Of course, no one's heard it yet, but we already know that it's unlikely to sound as good as the regular Aries if it has a DAC, & cheap connectors.
IMO, any review of the Aries Mini will be REQUIRED to compare it to a semi-optimized Squeezebox touch. As the non hardware part of the Squeezebox paradigm is obviously better...
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
In consumer electronics, low price usually means low margin. So to make money on a low price product you need larger sales volume, which means adding more features to satisfy a broader audience. That is the curse of mid-fi.
They already have the original Aries and the Aries LE for people who want to use a good DAC.
You're right of course.....
Sorry for my "mid-end" meter.......
From a hi-end perspective, - I'd rather see them go the other way, and make a $2K player that's another step up...
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Sticking a DAC in the product cannot be described in any other way but stupid.
Maybe but that depends on what you're looking for. Auralic is not the only streamer maker that includes a DAC in some of their streamers. The Mini also includes the ability to install a local disk. Again, Auralic is not the only manufacturer that makes streamers with internal disk.
I think they're just trying to cover a broader range of users and what they want.
Oh, I wouldn't expect any reviewer to claim that the Aries Mini sounds as good as the Aries LE or the Aries with femto clocks. These devices ALWAYS sound better as you go up the price ladder, even if they don't.
I refuse to consider the Squeezebox Touch in the equation for any shootout or comparison not because it wasn't a great product but because it is dead, obsolete, gone, history, etc. Get over it people! It is no longer relevant to the conversation. ;-)
""I refuse to consider the Squeezebox Touch in the equation for any shootout or comparison not because it wasn't a great product but because it is dead, obsolete, gone, history, etc. Get over it people! It is no longer relevant to the conversation. ;-)""
Oh so now you are being a jerk too... Must be your speakers!!! Join the club! Maybe some things just never are obsolete... Doesn't your MD still use leaches??? lol
I have to laugh... Every time a new device is mentioned we must be reminded by the gentleman with 47 SB touches how pppppperfect it is.
Hey I still have one... If it wait a few more years I will probably be able to trade it in for a Lamborghini! :)
Abe, Yes the squeezebox is dead. Certainly as far as new sales go.
But when I look at my Stereo System it is made up of a lot of 'dead' components. I have Tube Amps that I built as kits from Welborne Labs, that have been 'dead' for 5 years before the Squeezebox Touches hit the Market. The Tubes in it are RCA Globe 45s from 1934 and have been dead longer than I have been alive.
My Welborne Tube Pre-amp has also been dead for 12 years.... The 6SN7 tubes in it are Sylvania Chrome Domes that have been dead since 1961.
My Klipschorn Bass Bins were designed in 1949... I do have modern Oris Horns from 2011.
So, even though my Squeezebox is 'Dead', it continues to play as well as my other old stuff. It's just a matter of perspective.
Cut-Throat
I've got about 4,000 classical LPs and most all have music composed by folks who are dead.
I would imagine a lot if not most of the musicians playing on them might be as well.
nt
Cut-Throat
There is nothing wrong with old stuff. I have built and owned tubes since my teens, and have maybe 2,000. Own SET amps, 45s, 2A3s and 300Bs. The touch is nice but it is not the ultimate device...really. Since you can build things if you are so inclined it is easy to duplicate a SB with a BB Black or similar. No screen though. Daphile is also nice.
Who said the touch was the ultimate device ?.... I hardly think so. I have been looking for a better replacement, ever since I bought one..... But spending $3 Grand on a streamer is not something I'm doing. I also have 45, 2A3, and 300B amps and none of them cost close to $3 Grand.Yes, I have a raspberry pi, that I put together and ran under LMS. Not sure what these build your own devices would have over a SB Touch though..
When and if I find a better replacement for a Squeezebox Touch, I'm buying one. I merely said the replacement does not exist yet IMO.
Cut-Throat
Edits: 11/21/15
I would not spend $3 grand either for a streamer. I just think there are other cost effective ways to get features like the SB.
To me streaming from remote sources is more like a an FM tuner. I always knew I cannot get sound which equaled my system so I did not worry about it. Never owned a Marantz 10B, but did have a Scott 310E and Leak tuners.
As far as streaming locally... IMO if you understand what you are doing you can build a system equal or better than most commercial offerings.
But... not everyone has the background or wants to hassle with building computers, so off the shelf is the alternative... You just pay more for the convenience, and loose the flexibility of DIY.
The PI is a bit limited because of the way it handles the Ethernet, but there are other cool ARM devices out there. The Twisted Pear Audio guys are actually doing something pretty high end.
The difference between streaming and an FM Tuner, is that you can stream lossless from a remote location. Your DAC does not know whether the bits coming down the Ethernet Wire are from a Music Streaming Service or your Music Library located on your hard drive.
BTW - I am more enamored with LMS than the Squeezebox itself. It would seem that someone in the audio industry, could come out with a Streamer, with a quality power supply, clock, NO DAC, that could stream Music Services as well as personal libraries for a pricepoint of under $1000. No need for a Screen, remote etc.
Cut-Throat
Seeing as a) I'm a reviewer, b) I have the Aries mini here for review, and c) I also have the Aries proper, we can put your (lame) theory to the test!
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
Hi Michael
Did you ever do that comparison?
Am looking to move on from a Squeezebox Touch but can't afford Aurender money.
I have a pretty big "mid-fi meter" that sometimes causes the knees to jerk. To some degree, I think that digital file playback, (since it requires elements of commercial computing), carries with it some "computer engineer" attitude of "everything sounds the same: and you are really stupid to spend thousands of dollars when the device is the same (sic) as a commercial computer)."
I see the Aries as one of the best $1300 you can spend with digital file playback right now. As is corroborated by others, having it in my system was the best digital file playback to come through my system. Yet, - it's not good enough for me, - and I'm still looking. Even a NAA device carries with it the cost of configuring a second computer, software, interfaces, and networking optimization.
All this talk (speaking for myself) accounts for little compared to LISTENING: its SQ. If it's better sounding than SBT, than that is super great, - and it will likely do well. And due to some talented LMS fans, it can be used with LMS. Buying a SBT, buys you LMS, the real value of Squeezebox.
On the surface, adding a DAC, using cheaper connectors, etc. brings the SQ down. Bluesound, Sonus, Peachtree, whatever, have already "won" the lower mid-fi market. Plus, there's a fanatical contingent of people carrying their SBTs to the grave. And I'd be willing to bet that Aurilic won't push the fact that the Aries Mini can run LMS.
On the other hand, in this decaying and failed economy, people are sacrificing SQ for convenience; as they can't afford to listen as much, and pay for superior playback.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
I bring up my lame theory because there's a lot of evidence to support it in the Recommended Components section of a magazine I subscribe to.
But seriously, I would love to get your impression of the Auralic Aries Mini. And then beat you up afterwards for a predictable outcome. ;-)
Hi Michael
I would very much look forward to your results of this shootout.
I just purchased an Aries used and am interested to find out if I made the right decision for more money.
What do you think of it?
"IMO Tidal sucks, & it's a super bad call to force it upon people...."
+1
In total agreement about that. I was very interested in the Aries Mini at $400. Lost all interest when it came in at $550 with Tidal latched to it.
Thanks for your impressions on the sound of the Aries.
Cheers,
Scott
nt
Cut-Throat
I had the Auralic Aries for about 6 months. I was only streaming Tidal over WiFi. Had lots of problems. Dropouts, couldn't make connection. Eventually I couldn't get it to work at all. I got the best router I could but still wouldn't work Spent 5 hours on the phone with Auralic tech and it would not work. Sent it to them and it worked fine but I new if they sent it back I would still be unable to use it. I must say they spent a lot of time with me and after 6 months they gave me a full refund. I now stream Tidal from a MacBookPro using Amarro. Works perfect with no problems. When the Aries did work it sounded excellent and there Tidal remote was very well done.
Alan
Thanks for this.... And I agree with you on LMS. I am more 'wedded to LMS' than the SB Touch. I think LMS is great!I briefly looked at one of your selections. The "Signature Rendu" and I don't see it streaming Spotify or Deezer Elite, so this would be a NoGo for me.
I am not looking for any of these features. "Not going to have LCD screens, touch screens, or connect & stream via wifi."
I would just want a quality player, without a DAC that would stream Deezer Elite and Spotify and my music files. ---- Had a Sonos for awhile, but it could not beat my SB Touch.
Cut-Throat
Edits: 11/19/15
I am pretty sure that they will do Spotify and Deezer via Squeezelite connection to LMS....
If not the Orbiter or Sig Rendu, - the microRendu as a NAA should....
The folks at Sonore are super nice and cool: sure that they would be happy to say for sure....
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Yes it is he best audio player in the world nothing can ever top it.Every time someone mentions a new device we must be reminded that nobody beats a SB touch... Except it just does not sound that good compared to a many newer devices...
You have no idea what you're talking about. IF they sound inferior to you, you probably need better speakers.Cut-Throat
Edits: 11/19/15
SMH... Makes perfect sense... I guess I need to hook my SB touch directly to my speakers... Thanks for the info...
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