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It seems there is a relationship between them, hence the willingness of them to trash JPlay... Simply just another unethical manufacture.
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Some programs/apps work on some hardware/software environments and not on others. No one has an obligation to support everything and manufacturers decide what they think is best based on technology and marketing factors.
If you disagree, that does not mean there is anything collusive or unethical but you are free to express yourself with your checkbook.
Kal,
I was not even aware of this and really could not care about exaSound until our resident Ansel Adams brought it up. I put it a new thread because it had nothing to do with the OPs thread.
A manufacture does not have to support anything, and if necessary just say that, no harm no foul.
But when they say things like this...
""""In our view JPlay is an unnecessary layer of processing. We like, use and endorse Windows players like J River Media Center and Foobar. We like them because they give the user control over the sound processing. With these players we can turn on as little or as many features as we need. More importantly, we understand what is going on within the player. JPlay works in magic ways, and therefore we prefer to stay away from it.
Using JPlay with J River Media Center
Here is the official position about JPlay on the J River website:
Jplay is a Hoax
JRiver recommends that you uninstall Jplay. It adds a layer of sound processing that can degrade sound quality, performance, and stability. You will achieve the best sound quality with JRiver alone.""""
They are unethical... Sorry...
Regards
Bob
I do not see anything unethical. I see strong opinions expressed strongly.
"Imprudent", "ill-advised", "not great marketing", or "overreaching"...maybe.
"Unethical"? Nah. Not in the least.
I see an alliance against another trade member. It is uncalled for.
I support everyone's free speech, including yours.
is regarded by you as 'imagination', then it calls into question your own posts, and the motives behind tham.
You see facts where I see statements. Consequently, I see no need to pursue this exchange.
Do you have proof of collusion? Show us.
nt
There is no alliance, collusion, or conspiracy. These exist only in the minds of the overly imaginative and emotionally charged souls.
you are not capable of understanding a post, do not interrupt.
I read your post correctly and understand what you said. It appears that you are letting your imagination take over all reasonable thought on the topic.
""I do not see anything unethical. I see strong opinions expressed strongly. ""
Well IMO it also depends who you are and your position... stature... status... not always just what you say.
Someone with your reputation and as well respected as yourself I hope would understand that.
JPlay is the real deal, but I do like George's exaSound DACs.
Yes Steve from what I have read they are excellent DACs.
Seems that maybe they just made a bad choice of friends... We have all done this as teenagers... But we are all adults now...
Yes, I also dislike the negative stuff about JPlay.
I see nothing negative about saying one's software product does not need anothers to sound it's best
I see nothing negative about saying one's software product does not need anothers to sound it's best .Agree. But it appears to go beyond that.
When that add-on software causes known compatibility and support issues for a respected DAC maker and another software product, I see nothing wrong with demanding that customers remove it before providing support.
Our tech support department runs into this type of issue frequently enough that they demand certain software that does not adhere to standard programming interfaces to be removed before providing support.
Edits: 09/23/15 09/23/15 09/23/15 09/23/15
My response was over simplified. They are not the only ones making that request/demand. For example, aftermarket performance equipment for cars. Use of many add-ons violate the car manufacture's warranty.
Again, I agree with this. I think your take on me is wrong. The only thing I disliked was the referral of JPlay as "magic".
Perhaps so
Of course...
And the weight of the statement varies with who makes it...
"I tell the kids, somebody's gotta win, somebody's gotta lose. Just don't fight about it. Just try to get better."
Yogi Berra
But... when something is said in public you cannot control who hears it...Subsequently people should think before they speak and possibly realize as a manufacture they need to take a more intelligent stance and not promote or perpetuate negativity.
Edits: 09/23/15
People should exercise temperance in their public statements but how they are judged by a wide public is not entirely in their control, especially if there are many with strong feelings on the topic. Some will judge the statements one way and others will have an opposite reaction.Of course, those with negative responses tend to respond with more frequency and volume.
Edits: 09/23/15 09/23/15
If limited to that, I agree.
With credit to Mr. Cervantes.
I went through that thread, and perhaps I feebly missed the part where anyone disparages JPlay. Could you be more specific? I thought I had checked all the links as well.
Yes, I am aware of JRiver's antagonism to JPlay. Yes, I realize how bent out of shape JPlay loyalists are, and how much of a hot button that is to an outraged, but vocal minority. I do not use JPlay myself so it is an irrelevant issue to me.
I am also aware of the synergies between JRiver and Exasound. I use that combination myself into an e28 with great success, as does Kal Rubinson at Stereophile. It does make sense to me from a business standpoint for Exasound to try to integrate with one of the leading library/player packages - one of the few that actively supports Mch audio.
Ok, I found an old discussion on the Exasound site. I do not, as I said, use or have any interest in JPlay, myself. Exasound's technical issues seem to make sense to me, though. It is what it is.
I do not think fervent attempts to "shame" Exasound into JPlay support will bear any fruit, as strongly and vehemently as JPlay supporters may protest. They have little credibility in their fervor with the rest of us who do not give a hoot about JPlay. If that Is a mortal sin, I am guilty. But, it is my choice, though I may be damned in hell for it.
Meanwhile, I am perfectly delighted with the sound of my system without JPlay. I lose no sleep about the issue. But, flame away if you feel it necessary. It actually harms and destroys any credibility about your cause, but I can handle the heat.
You're exactly right. It's when inmates get their emotional panties in a wad instead of following reason, is when this place called the Asylum goes to hell.
Sorry.
Couldn't resist.
You and Fitz are much too reasonable!
.
I have also read good things about exaSound from people I respect, they make good DACs.
This came about when Abe decided post the negative JPlay link just because I recommended someone try it for his possible future streamer build. The thread had ZERO to do with JPlay, or exaSound. It is below if you want to see it.
Really.
Luckily, you can say anything about anyone on the Net...
Bob,
We stand behind what we said about JPlay. We had to say it because of ethical reasons.
exaSound
To be honest, this doesn't look good for you. I'm not sure why you think that supporting "bits is bits" mythology, and its purveyors in JRiver and Foobar, is good for business - it's a huge turn-off, for me personally, and I'm sure for many others.
The reason your ASIO driver is not working with JPlay is obviously insufficient testing protocol, which seemigly only includes 2 players - not surprisinly, JRiver and Foobar. Asking a software vendor to borrow your DAC to ensure compatibility seems a bit hypocritical - how about you downloading a version of JPlay, and making sure your software is comparible?
If anything, this snippet from your web site below is definition of UN-ethical, in my opinion:
In our view JPlay is an unnecessary layer of processing. We like, use and endorse Windows players like J River Media Center and Foobar. We like them because they give the user control over the sound processing. With these players we can turn on as little or as many features as we need. More importantly, we understand what is going on within the player. JPlay works in magic ways, and therefore we prefer to stay away from it.
which is as intrusive on your computer as JRiver. It writes loads of cache files, monitors your usage and uninstall unless you stop it, and leaves scores of registry keys on your PC.
Uninstall JRiver with something like Revo Uninstaller and scan for leftovers and anyone can see what is left behind.
Thank you for bringing the quote, it says it all.
Regarding the ASIO compatibility, our ASIO drivers are strictly compatible with the Steinberg specification. Besides Foobar, JRiver and all the studio recording software, I should mention HQPlayer as perfectly compatible choice. The compatibility issue with JPlay happened after changes on their side.
It has been discussed here and on many boards over and over again… But I would like to ask you the question. Do you think there is any such thing as the perfect DAC that will not be affected by the transport in front of it?
Is your DAC immune to software and hardware changes that are feeding it?
Bob, no DAC is perfect....
The basic logic behind what we say is that there are technologies that don't make sense to be used together. We've made some choices, we use ASIO, not KS. We've expressed our preferences for simplicity and rational design. We understand that these choices are not attractive to everybody.
exaSound DACs work more like streamers. They have internal memory, so music is plaid from the memory storage inside the DAC, not from the computer sound system, not from the USB. Therefore the impact from optimizations of the computer sound system and the USB connection won't bring much return on investment.
With the architecture that we use, the special optimizations of the playback engine must be deployed inside our DACs, somewhere between the memory buffer and the DAC chip.
In the exaSound usage scenario tweaking of the player can alter the sound in a pleasant and desired way, but this amounts to changing the flavour of the sound, not getting closer to the original recording.
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