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In Reply to: RE: Wish we had the rationale behind the tweaks posted by Dave_K on September 02, 2015 at 08:16:27
You make good points here, and in general. As cynical as I am, I do try to keep an open mind and decide on the legitimacy of each product as they come and not try TOO hard to prejudge. Yes I know, some of it is so out there you can't help it, but this fellow seems to have a good reputation.
Follow Ups:
Yes you are not stupid, and in many ways we think alike. We all have limits of what is practical, and or over the top... But... sorry some of the super cynics are kinda moronic IMO.
Thinking nothing can improve sound makes little sense. You were clearly able to(before the fiber) improve your system with a cat 7 cable. I did the exact same thing! Not a $500 cable but a $7 one!!!!!
Looking at this it is rather insulting for them to scoff at the possibility that the switch (or other reasonably thought out items) can make an improvement.
PPA is not over priced and out to rip people off. He is just a perfectionist who is really into this, and makes some cool stuff.
I agree with you Bob; Paul Pang does fine work.
I look at this way...anyone who wants to get rich is not going to sell a $150 switch, or $175 USB re-generator. No. A get quick rich scheme would entail a $1000 USB cable that costs $50 to make, or a some other "Priced for Audiophiles" type device that, as the other poster said, that includes "audiophile trigger" buzzwords.
There are folks out there legitimately trying to improve the sound of computer audio, and there are some looking to fleece. Common sense will prevail...we can hope.
I am more likely to listen to a modder who demonstrates an understanding of the underlying technology and can articulate how his/her mods address the limitations of the stock design. There are some very good ones. I'm less likely to listen to a modder who just swaps his favorite parts into any place they may fit. After perusing his product list, Paul Pang definitely seems to be in the latter category. I'm not dismissing the possibility that his switch might improve the sound in some systems, but I'm not impressed with a guy who seems to blindly tack his clock module and transformer onto anything that requires a clock.
Dave,
Do you have anything technical to back up the comment that he is just blindly doing this. How do you know he does understand what he is doing, and cannot articulate on the subject??? How is your Mandarin? Give him a call... smh...
I'll explain further.
The clocking needs for mixed signal systems are different than for digital systems. When clocking digital logic, the clock jitter and drift has to be low enough for the circuit to operate reliably but improving the clock beyond that yields no improvement in the performance of the circuit. The same is not true when working with mixed signals, particularly at the boundaries between analog and digital circuitry e.g. ADCs and DACs. So there are applications where a more stable, lower jitter clock is always better and other applications where it's not.
It doesn't make any sense from an engineering standpoint to change oscillators which have no connection or influence on the analog side and are being used strictly for clocking digital logic. That's what Paul is doing. Lower jitter = better is a concept that applies to clocks that are directly or indirectly clocking A/D or D/A logic. Like the audio clocks on a PC sound card for example, or a USB clock when operating in isochronous transfer mode, but not to something like a PC motherboard system clock or its equivalent in an Ethernet switch. Or to USB using asynchronous transfer mode.
A whole other question is whether Paul's clocks are actually better, and/or what leads him to believe he can do better than the stock clock on a PC or switch mainboard. One concern I have is that his mainboard clocks in the servers are mounted on the side of the computer case and connected to the mainboard through 6" of loose wire. It is generally not wise to locate clocks so far away from where they are used, and through a length of wire exposed to a high-RFI environment. Also, it looks like the clock signal connection to the mainboard is a single wire (clock out) and the module is grounded through the chassis, which is also a no-no. And he's putting a transformer on the output of his clock module, which seems superfluous at best, since the clock signal is single ended and both sides of the transformer are connected to the same ground point. He warns customers that his clock upgrade doesn't work with most LGA1155 boards, which isn't confidence inspiring either.
Finally, I'm pretty skeptical that the same basic clock module design is appropriate for clocking a DAC, clocking a USB interface, and for high speed PC system clocks, because the design parameters are so different. I don't know where he applied it first, probably the DAC.
For the MB clock module in the music server, he claims "This upgrade will decrease the distortion and to make more smooth listening and analog like." I can't really second guess the sonic results because I have no experience with his products.
But for the standalone MB clock upgrade, he claims "Mobo clock will reduce errors with soft ware operating including the OS, You will got faster operating, less CPU regarding." That, to me, sounds like a bullshit claim.
Sounds real intelligent Dave, do you a CV to go with any of your technical comments.
"" I can't really second guess the sonic results because I have no experience with his products.""
Well I use his products and so have any others, with very positive results. So basically your comments hold no water...
"""But for the standalone MB clock upgrade, he claims "Mobo clock will reduce errors with soft ware operating including the OS, You will got faster operating, less CPU regarding." That, to me, sounds like a bullshit claim."""
Sounds to me more like you need to understand that things can be lost in translation. Pinhead comment about his lack of fluency in another language does not detract from the quality of his products.
"Sounds real intelligent Dave, do you a CV to go with any of your technical comments."
You asked for a technical explanation! Why must you always be such a complete jerk? You should be thanking him!
"Well I use his products and so have any others, with very positive results. So basically your comments hold no water..."
Comments regarding a complete lack of any technical justification whatsoever on the website along with an apparently fairly strong understanding of related technical subjects illiciting skepticism not holding water?? with respect to what exactly?? Your slob knobbin, break your back to bend over and kiss the butt of anybody you have irrationally deemed a guru? Repeated clue for No_Tech, your personal attacks mean zero to anyone with any intelligence. I am surprised you are allowed to persist here with that behavior but I suspect it will only be a matter of time for you....just like your good buddy carcass93.
"Sounds to me more like you need to understand that things can be lost in translation. Pinhead comment about his lack of fluency in another language does not detract from the quality of his products"
LOL! You mean understanding like your own? So, so laughable No_Tech. I would note you haven't graced this thread with the benefit of any your superior understanding as usual. Care to illuminate the forum with your brilliance by filling in what's been lost in translation here and how the technical points made by Dave are missing the mark here? hahahahaha ha
Did you see the word AUDIO at the top of the page. Please crawl back into your little troll hole now...
Since you are obviously disagreeing with Dave for some technical reason, and not just acting the fool you play here, and since this website contains no technical justification....lets just hear it then genius...
What are the technical reasons these are audibly superior?
"Please crawl back into your little troll hole now..."
Huh? and miss the unbounded oscillation I sense may be starting up somewhere over in your direction?
Since you still want to be a moron, I will respond once more to your foolishness.This is an AUDIO FORUM. People LISTEN TO MUSIC with their equipment. This should be the finial arbiter. CAN YOU COMPREHEND THIS? Endless technical chatter is meaningless unless there is listening associated with it.
Dave said he has never used any of these items, and does not even have a conventional computer source. And you are just a total clown who does not have the slightest idea of what is going on here...
Edits: 09/04/15
I repeat: You are the one who asked him about it. Then for some reason you tweaked when he told you. It seems pretty insane. That's all.
You can't even follow a simple threaded discussion.
Do you know what came first, the chicken or the egg???
You have it right if you are trying to suggest that no one outside your head can ever be quite sure what it is you are rambling on about half the time. It's certainly usually an off topic, personal attack of some sort in most instances lately. At least that much seems clear.
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