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In Reply to: RE: Whats The Benchmark For Digital Audio? posted by Dynobot on September 01, 2015 at 15:50:57
With most audiophile owned systems, IMO the DAC rules the day regardless of transport. Purchase the very best DAC/Converter you can afford, or not afford for that matter and you'll be a happy camper.
Follow Ups:
Agree 100% about the DAC being the low hanging fruit with greatest impact on overall sound quality in the digital chain - aside from the source file of course.The rest are tweaks or accessories in support of a great DAC whether the tweak is a cable, reclocker, regenerator, separate linear 5VBUS power, linear power supply for computer, OS tweak, player software, etc.
The DAC is first, the rest are secondary to overall sound quality in the digital chain. Of course, I've been saying this for years in heated debates that got very nasty and personal.
Edits: 09/02/15 09/02/15
I agree, but most computer audiophiles in forums seem much more obsessed with cables, power supplies, OS modifications, software, add on tweaks, etc.
Must have add on tweaks......hundreds of dollars worth if not thou$ands
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
about $20000 on power and cables? Worth $2000 in 5 or 10 years' time?
You guys crack me up. First off, Shunyata provided around $33,000 worth of equipment to me to review. Most of us, including yours truly, can't afford all of this gear. But I see Fred going through all these machinations to try convince himself and everyone else that no one should purchase this equipment.
I don't know of any audio gear that has proven to be a great investment in terms of resale. But I know that most of us would enjoy trying this stuff because it is great fun.
And don't fool yourselves that this equipment is bullshit. It is the real deal.
FWIW my comment has nothing to do with you.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
you invent a version of history to try to get you out of deep waters. This is a disreputable trait.
''
But I see Fred going through all these machinations to try convince himself and everyone else that no one should purchase this equipment. ''
I made no statement of the sort and what you said was a figment of your own imagination, just because you cannot defend the basis on which you posted. This consists of cut and paste of vendor's claims and graphs that don't make sense in supporting your claims about products' 'superior' audio effects.
You don't even remember what you are posting everywhere.
Clearly bullshit on your part.
what I said without adding your own misinterpretation or inability to interpret what had been said.
I am innately suspicious of reviewers because of potential conflict of interest. Playing with someone's $33,000 toys is a good example.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Tony,
That makes little sense. Is everyone corrupt? How much do reviews influence your purchases?
Steve does not deserve all bullshit here...
Often items like these, and many audio items for that matter can be auditioned in one's home, you can then be the judge.
I have never been so influenced to purchase something crazy due to a review... Have you?
The applicable phrases are: "business is business" and "caveat emptor".
By becoming a reviewer Mercman has chosen to place himself under suspicion. I am not attacking him personally, but I am criticizing the role that he has chosen to play and questioning some of the scenes in which his character has found himself.
Persuading people to spend their money on useless trinkets that they do not need may be perfectly legal, but it does not make it in any way moral. I find that being involved in such matters, however remotely, to be somewhat suspect. (I speak from personal experience, since my Grandfather owned one of the largest advertising agencies in New York and was responsible for creating the market for diamond engagement rings with his adverting slogan, "A diamond is forever." A scam if there ever was one...)
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Tony,
Then you are looking for a Utopian society.
Caesar's wife must be above suspicion
Not sure I'd look to a slave-owning aristocrat with a genocidal streak for moral guidance but what do I know?. Still, if I were you, Steve, I'd stay away from the forum for a week or two or at least know where the exits are.
After all, TL is adamant that reviewers are as suspect as the inventors of RBCD and designers of DAC and that RBCD is so musically bad that anyone who listens to it is all but deaf.
Beware the geeks with opinions verging on irrational.
You are in rare form this morning. Let me tell you this:
Being a reviewer is a thankless job. You're damned no matter what you do.
Thanks for your vote of confidence.
Being a neutral reviewer is difficult, but being a partial reviewer is relatively easy.
I am neutral. I received some heat from another source due to my stated preferences. I really don't care since my livelihood doesn't depend on it.I don't know how much more neutral one can become.
But I'm going to enjoy the long holiday weekend and take a break from this place.
Edits: 09/04/15
I wonder how many here think that.
You feel that the Shunyata equipment is too expensive and that some of their promotional material is poorly written. That is what I was able to get from your many statements. Did I miss something?
I reported on what I heard. My endorsement of these products was based on their performance in my system. I don't worry about price or promotional statements. If you feel product endorsement should be based on these factors, then we will be in disagreement. I leave it to the customer to determine if the product is too expensive.
Many of the manufacturers do not have perfect or satisfactory explanations of their products. I will say that Shunyata is very up front about their design and what is in the boxes and cables.
I guess what I need from you is what you define as reviewer neutrality.
''do not have perfect or satisfactory explanations of their products''So, if you are neutral, why do you feel obliged, on many occasions, to repeat the descriptions from manufacturers without understanding them, to the point of rejecting comments by inmates as being superfluous?
If a reviewer is neutral, then he or she should just post the effects of the products in his or her system, and let others judge whether the comments may apply generally. Better still, it is common practice to review with a 'control' system, without the embellishment of 'software' enhancements for computer playback.
Some reviewers even get a second opinion in a different system before making the kind of definitive statements you like to make frequently.
Edits: 09/05/15
I like to present the company's philosophy of design when reviewing. I summarize things down to a short description relative to what is available on the manufacturer's site.For the Shunyata review, I derived information from their site, the company, videos on YouTube, and information the company provided on their sponsored forums. I think I summarized things in a concise manner.
So your idea of a neutral reviewer would be for me to just post my findings and take out the personal preference end of it.
That's pretty dull if you ask me. But hey, you can do this on your reviews. I don't know of any reviewer who just reports his observations without commenting on his preferences.
As for software enhancements, I did most of the reviewing with just Roon on Windows 8.1 and 10. I did some listening with Fidelizer Pro. The effect of Fidelizer on all of this was quite small.
As for second opinions, I like that. But why do I need a second opinion to proclaim if I like something? Do both reviewers have to be in agreement for one to post his preferences?
Fred, I am not writing scientific studies. The reviews represent my experiences with different products.
Edits: 09/05/15
take out the propaganda; you can simply provide a link, or a description, with none of the Zen stuff in sales literature
"take out the propaganda; you can simply provide a link, or a description, with none of the Zen stuff in sales literature"
That is part of the story, it is painting a picture with words, it is the way reviews are written. It is clearly separate from the author's opinion. It paints the entire picture... It fills the page... This is not the New York Times or London Post...
What do you want, just one line... I am Steve and I approve this DAC???
If one goes back to the original Absolute Sound in the very early issues, the reviews were short opinion pieces followed by opinions from the other guys.Maybe this is what Fred is seeking.
Edits: 09/05/15
I loved reading Absolute Sound, brings back found memories. :)
But that was a totally different world back then...
I appreciate your suggestion Fred. I will discuss this with Michael.
Fred,
Maybe you do not realize, but you are way too picky when it comes to... almost everything... :)
Try taking what people do at face value,and not that it is some nefarious plan. Just like when you say this or that was better I take you at your word, so maybe you should also.
I may not planing on buying these expensive items either but still can enjoy reading about them.
If we look at the big picture, any advertising driven publication cannot be taken as totally independent, but they are not as corrupt as some want to make them out.
''advertising driven publication cannot be taken as totally independent''
No problem, but Merman is professing neutrality and regurgitating stuff with no meaning.
If he doesn't make sweeping claims about the superiority of his brand of audio, and tries to understand what inmates are saying instead of branding them, then I have no problems.
I simply do not like intentional skewing or re-interpretation of my posts to represent something else.
I have never been told by anyone at AudioStream what to write. And I can assure you that I ruffled some feathers with the Shunyata review, but this was how I honestly felt.
I now understand what Fred means by "neutral". He would like my reviews to just present my observations without accompanying opinion. It's a reasonable view, but passion is what this hobby is about.
Steve, anyone who has an issue with your integrity is, well, delusional.
Quick question..when you say you ruffled some feathers...did you mean the usual suspects here? A competitor? Shunyata themselves? Audiotream's parent company?
I'd rather not say, but it wasn't AudioStream.
Oh man you suck! :) :)
It was the NBC Peacock...
It's fine by me. Just accept that it is your opinion and that others exists and are valid.
.
show this in your responses.
Listen to some good music from Scotland and cheer up:
"I don't know of any audio gear that has proven to be a great investment in terms of resale. But I know that most of us would enjoy trying this stuff because it is great fun."
Two that I have personal acquaintance with are MAC275 and Marantz 10B. Unfortunately, I sold both of these at a small profit over their list price, but then the price ran way up.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Sure Tony. There is collectable stuff. I wish I had the Marantz today.
Well I have to agree with everyone that this Shunyata equipment won't be collectable.
The $20k cables, etc. were worth only $2k brand new. The fact that someone paid 10x that much does not change the real value...
-RW-
This is a fair assessment
More like $200.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
I think the boxes probably cost more than this
And here I was tryin' to be all nice and such and you guys pile on - GREAT! Hey, who brought the soft, warm pillows?
Those aren't pillows....
-RW-
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