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In Reply to: RE: Whats The Benchmark For Digital Audio? posted by Dynobot on September 01, 2015 at 15:50:57
Playing CDs on a CD player is quite similar to what Thomas Edison did. One disc at a time.Today, using a computer or a stripped down dedicated box, one can mine through thousands of titles in a matter of minutes. For those with collections in the thousands, a one-at-a-time CD player is archaic. As for sound, modern DACs sound very good to me. But that's a personal preference.
Companies like Esoteric spend a fortune on transports for real time playback accuracy. But it should come as no surprise that computer drives playing to a memory buffer can be just as accurate at a fraction of the cost.
So your question really boils down to quality of your components. Learning how to squeeze maximum quality out of a computer has become very easy. Dedicated servers also work well and are simpler and probably less expensive.
Edits: 09/02/15Follow Ups:
$20000 for the accessory toys that you have just reviewed.
You need to state a balanced viewpoint ie a $10000 box , or a bunch of boxes with weird names that are worth little within a few years.
Fred,
Why the hell are you breaking my balls over the Shunyata gear? We aren't talking about power conditioners.
One's life doesn't depend on this equipment. If you don't want to purchase it, no one will be offended. But the fact is, that these are great products. Remember, we are not talking about cancer medication, but audio toys.
I see nothing wrong with folks buying this equipment.Everything doesn't have to fit into your world view to be desirable. Believe me!
on a system basis, not true.
You have to remember that Fred has pioneered every imaginable breakthrough in computer audio over the past decade so if your setup doesn't match his exactly, he will be quick to point out the excesses and shortcomings in your system. Pretty generous of him don't you think?
1. connect your DUT to a ground floating scope.
2. Connect your computer to a fanned power supply with croc clips to assess SQ 'function test???'.
Need anyone say more about pointless LOL posts about audio?
You might be suffering from a comprehension problem:#1) Connect the Device Under Test (DUT) to the AC mains through an isolation transformer floating the earth referenced ground. This is a common safety practice when using an oscilloscope on the DUT. Something you might consider trying next time when you get your blown-up Tektronix scope back from the repair shop.
#2) Was not a SQ test at all and I made this perfectly clear in my original post. It was a functional test after an electrical mod to ensure that everything was functioning correctly before proceeding further. Do you get it?
Are you still defragmenting your SSDs for 'better performance'? We are still awaiting your 250-Watt ATX linear power supply review that you promised last year... Same for your HDPlex linear power supply, or are you still waiting for your Tektronix scope to be fixed?
Edits: 09/03/15 09/03/15
"Are you still defragmenting your SSDs for 'better performance'?"
You love to make this comment... Do you still have food fights also???
Just a point for you... You should not always scoff and instead maybe try reading a bit. The author of Bughead also makes something called Rewrite Data, and people do find its use can improve SQ.
Actually, from Win 8, MS takes care of it through Defrag - Optimise with trim enabled automatically.This shows the lack of any knowledge by the poster and the trait whereby he distorts the truth.
Perfect Disk and the like were good for XO,W7 and worked.
Edits: 09/04/15
You blew up your scope. Are you trying to kill your SSDs now?
I find it alarming that he once recommended a defragmenter for inmates using SSDs. Most everyone knows that defragging SSDs are of no benefit and causes premature wear. He wasn't talking about 'rearranging' a couple audio files. He also suggested partitioning an SSD to prevent one of the partitions from premature wear by directing log file writes to the 'other' partition. Doesn't work that way because the SSD partitions are abstracted by it's controller and one has no control over which cells are written to (regardless of how the SSD is partitioned).When he questions my expertise, I question his. Food fight!
Edits: 09/03/15
His responses at Audio Stream and here are simply unbelievable. He doesn't like the names of the products. Give me a break!
As usual, you make light of genuine points and cannot accept the hard fact that $20000 will buy you a room with excellent acoustics and electrical properties (such as power supply and cabling) to start with, making a whole population of over-the-moon gadgets unnecessary.
Perhaps you are unaware that one of the contributors to HiFi News did just that to house wiring 'for a fraction of the cost?' years ago and his house became a focal point for auditioning.
What if these boxes were installed in a room with your suggested modifications?
technical or scientific justification can you provide for doing so? For that amount of money, a musical acoustics consultant can do so intelligently and rid you of boxes that may be worth nothing in a few years' time.
For a tiny fraction of the cost, you can use your computer skills to analyse your room response with professional software and get an understanding of why your gear can sound much better in your home.
Yes, I have done it. I have also done it with room correction hardware and software.
It seems to me that a reviewer needs to have a wider horizon than simply endorsing what a vendor claims about products.
"It seems to me that a reviewer needs to have a wider horizon than simply endorsing what a vendor claims about products."
It appears after reading your comments that I foolishly spent a great deal of time trying to asses the sonic characteristics of these 4 products. It wasn't easy Fred. But I have to remain grounded and not venture off to your alternative universe.
I'm sure my next review of the Kubla-Sosna Realization USB cable will elicit the "Best Of Fred" comments. This cable is $3500 for a 1 meter length.
After that, I will be evaluating the Ayre Codex, a $1795 DAC, headphone amp, and preamp.
Please let me know if I am good to go ahead with these reviews.
not your sweeping statements about 'fraction of cost' and negative comments on non computer products that are not based on scientific/engineering knowledge or on reasoning. You will just need to begin to accept these without trying to whitewash them.
Edits: 09/03/15
Are you referring to my comments on the Esoteric VDRS drive? A truly excellent product, but one that I feel can be matched for much less. I'm just trying to exercise your economy of evaluation Fred.
permanently for much less.
Get it? If you don't, don't bother to prolong the conversation. If you do, I shall not reply.
Yes I get it Fred. And I can use the Shunyata gear in the improved room as well. This stuff is really quite exceptional.
''The noise-filter elements used in the Σ SIGMA AC Cables are entirely passive and non-reactive, meaning they will never get in the way of current flow, nor will they interfere with the power supplies of the components'' and produced a graph of the mains waveform which has been seen many times before, with noise being attenuated in a rather DISTORTED sinewave.
The statement has no rational basis except to suggest that the cable does nothing (or something because it filters and therefore 'interferes').
As I said before, I'd expect a review to be clear and not fudge such matters if you are going to be as positive about it as you are suggesting.
Sorry, can't help further response.
Fred, I agree with you.
The quote is marketing BS. It is sufficiently absurd that it enables me to conclude that either the company's management allows the company's marketing department to put out BS product information over the advice of a competent engineering department, or, the company's engineering department is itself incompetent.
Regardless of explanations given, I would never do business with such companies. Furthermore, when reviewers sing the praises of these kinds of products, they are demonstrating their lack of technical knowledge. This makes me reluctant to credit their ability to correctly ascribe the effect of these "devices".
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
If they are non-reactive and don't interfere with the current flow, they don't do anything! Perhaps he meant to say that they don't get in the way of the desired 50/60 Hz power line current.
That statement was given to me from Shunyata.
Perhaps Fred can advise Randall Munroe about audio product naming.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
The fact is:- do you want to spend $20000 on a collection of boxes and cable to improve SQ, or hire an acoustics professional to fundamentally improve rom acoustics, probably at a much lower cost.
Mercman cannot claim to have good computer audio playback at lower cost because his entire system(s) is geared towards computer playback, as opposed to having boxes with features offered by gadgets, built in.
"Mercman cannot claim to have good computer audio playback at lower cost because his entire system(s) is geared towards computer playback, as opposed to having boxes with features offered by gadgets, built in."
I don't know what you are trying to say.
Steve,
I really don't understand why you don't understand...
Please see the translation below...
then it should be pointless to shoot from the hip without asking for clarifications as you did earlier.
Fred, you're not making much sense again.
I know you can do better because I've seen you progress from being the king of 'hit and run one liners' to mostly complete sentences.
Whether you understand or not depends on your own capability to do so;no more needs to be said.
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