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In Reply to: RE: "Game Changer"? posted by Ivan303 on August 30, 2015 at 18:32:08
I am not one to usually judge,
you really need a better DAC.
if you heard a difference, at least, but you will not hear the difference too much more with the modded Connect unless you get a better DAC.
Follow Ups:
Please take it up with my wife as I could use a better one of those as well.
I like the DAC in the Marantz as I like the Marantz house sound. I use a DV-9600 as my main silver disk spinner. I liked it better than the OPPO 83 back in the day. IMNSHO 'revealing' and 'digital' are not necessarily two things that go well together.
You can say it's not a 'good' DAC because it is not YOUR DAC, and that's OK. Someday I'll build an Audio Note Kits 4.1. IMNSHO, that is a 'better' DAC. But that's just me.
I also tried the DAC in the OPPO HA-1 which is arguably 'better'.
It is a bit clearer, more 'up front' but is also more 'in your face' and a bit brighter and more 'digital' which is not to my liking. Again, the Remedy Re-clocker smooths things out a bit, again music 'flows' a bit better but I don't like digital anyway and I like 'audiophile' digital even less. Oddly, when the OPPO is used with the built-in headphone output into my HD-600's, it's OK.
But, to be honest, I am not disappointed as there really wasn't any great improvement I was looking for and I am not all unhappy with my system.
And do keep in mind that the Remedy Re-Clocker is designed to make improvements in sources like "Sonos Connect, Apple TV & Airport Express, Squeezebox Duet & Touch, iPod docks and many more". The problem is the sources, not the DAC.
And it arguably does.
Just not 'game changing'. Do keep in mind that we're still just streaming digital over the Internet.
nt
Cut-Throat
Yep, it's the first thing to go. :-(
ok, no offense.
I understand.
the Connect upgrade will pay off if you convince your wife to allow you better equipment down the line.
Now I know why I am single and lonely :)
Can you imagine the grief I'd be getting had the moderators not done a bit of clean-up around here this week? ;-)
These days, they all seem to measure well. How is a poor consumer able to tell the contenders from the pretenders?
JE
By listening. Also if you have a price range ask us and we will give our collective experiences sure to totally confuse you.
Alan
"we will give our collective experiences sure to totally confuse you"
True enough!
I've just noticed that the "differences" between modern CD players or DACs seem to be far subtler than the differences between different brands of phono cartridges.
JE
I have had several different dacs over the last few years and I have referred the differences to the differences in cartridges.
I have heard and owned 5 different dacs and they all had a definite signature sound
Alan
to Benchmark's latest and can't hear a difference then...
Whatever OPPO currently uses in their better products sure is more aggressive than the way Marantz goes about things, even in their 'mid-fi' lineup.
Then there is all of this new Chinese stuff, AudioGD and Lite Audio (I use one of their kit based pre-amps based on the 6SN7) which use hard-to-find, discontinued chips.
If I can manage to put together some decent work space and find all of my DIY crap in the storage room, I'd like to give one of the higher end ANK(Audio Note Kits) DAC a go. Heard one a few years ago mated to a Chinese top loading CD transport and it was a revelation.
I had an Audio Note CDII and my current Audio-GD Master 7 is simply better in every way you would compare dacs and I loved the Audio Note. The Metrum Hex is also a very good dac. The best cheap dac I own is the Teradac Chamelion at I think $580 with shipping. You will notice all these dacs are R2R Ladder dacs. I am sold on this technology
Alan
Perhaps some of these DACs are "voiced" to be more pleasing than accurate?
JE
DACs differ in sound for many reasons. The DAC processor, filter / filters, power supply, analog circuits, and on and on. How these variables are dealt with result in the voicing you are referring to.
It makes me wonder how much unit to unit variation there is between supposedly identical models. Could this explain why some folks like one model while others dislike the same one?
Do you think manufacturers might cherry pick units to provide to reviewers?
JE
My ears don't care much for digital to begin with, but the good news is that this changes with age so I'm not as sensitive to bad digital sound as I once was. Not being able to hear much above 10k helps, I guess.
20 minutes with a Benchmark DAC and I'd be confessing to just about any crime you could imagine.
Truth be told, DACs are getting better, I think. I can spend a day or two at an audio show now without running out most rooms screaming.
Still prefer vinyl but that's just me.
Oooh! That sounds expensive! Unless you've got a nearby shop (do they exist anymore?) with a very liberal return policy (an even narrower category of retailer).
At this point aren't we basically arguing over "flavors" of sound? Frequency response is for the most part ruler flat, distortion is negligible, obvious "wow and flutter" has been replaced by much more subtle "jitter." Again, we are arguing over such tiny variations from "correct," how is a consumer to know which product to pick? What if I prefer a "garage band" sound and you prefer a "string quartet" sound? Do we need to buy different DACs as a result?
For all the audiophile angst over digital as compared to vinyl, are there any papers or demonstrations that vinyl is somehow more musical than digital?
JE
Amen
Bill
Of course we then get into a discussion as to what do we mean by musical. I love both my vinyl setup and my digital setup. Both are very musical. I am convinced that R2R Ladder dacs can be as musical as vinyl. Vinyl and digital do sound different but I can enjoy both
Alan
Bullethead is totally right. Of all the components in the chain the Dac is the most critical. Save your money on upgrading the streaming sources and set a budget for a dac and we can give you suggestions
Alan
Do I STILL have to get a new DAC? ;-)
No
Alan
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