|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
70.179.39.110
In Reply to: RE: flawed many of todays USB Audio interfaces posted by fmak on August 30, 2015 at 10:16:43
Posted by fmak (A) on May 20, 2009 at 06:14:50
In Reply to: USB port to DAC seems to be really difficult to implement posted by DSG on May 19, 2009 at 14:36:47:
The PCs 5V supply is rubbish and PS jitter is well known.
This is why all these posts about how marvellous the usb interface is for audio is just, well (rubbish?).
Follow Ups:
- RE: flawed many of todays USB Audio interfaces - soundchekk 00:00:02 08/31/15 (3)
In Reply to: RE: flawed many of todays USB Audio interfaces posted by Mercman on August 30, 2015 at 12:12:50
You seem to understand "No Nothin'".
You walk on thin ice (I know you wouldn't know how to do it down in San Diego) by trying to become a technical expert. Better leave it.
You just repeat what Gordon and the other commercials are trying to make you and these others non-teccies believe to hide their own deficiencies.
The basic logic is: As long as bits ( the bit-value = 1/0 ) arrive at the DAC as being send, we as users should be fine. Why? """We've got asynchronous USB.""" -- Just kidding. That's -- ah - no - it used to be -- Gordons story.
Because the DAC - and only the DAC - should take care on making the best out of what's coming in. No matter how unstable and polluted voltages - VBUS or D+D- or ground are, if the frames and bits stay in tact it should be OK to the DAC.
All isolation, reclocking/refreshing, filtering, rebuffering should then be done properly inside the DAC. Why?
Because an external filter can make a positive difference, can be neutral, can make things worse. The behaviour will change with every DAC, every transport, every cable, every system, every user. The users are forced to gamble for good sound. That's where we're still at.
And... The industry enjoys it. Just buy 10-20 USB-filters for all your USB ports in the house and you'll be fine.
Enjoy.
- RE: flawed many of todays USB Audio interfaces - Mercman 03:24:40 08/31/15 (2)
In Reply to: RE: flawed many of todays USB Audio interfaces posted by soundchekk on August 31, 2015 at 00:00:02
I'm doing just fine here in San Diego. Thanks for asking.
We all get what you are saying since you repeat it endlessly.
How about a few more personal insults?
- RE: flawed many of todays USB Audio interfaces - soundchekk 03:55:29 08/31/15 (1)
In Reply to: RE: flawed many of todays USB Audio interfaces posted by Mercman on August 31, 2015 at 03:24:40
"We all get what you are saying since you repeat it endlessly."
I don't think so. "We all..." -- for sure excludes you. Though you're not alone.
"Repetition..."
As long as I have to read over and over all this misleading nonsense or marketing BS, I'll keep doing so. Sorry.
"Personal insults..."
Saying that you don't have a technical background you consider an insult...
"Technical background " does not mean being able to swap boxes, cables
or applications to finally "hear " a difference.
Enjoy
- RE: flawed many of todays USB Audio interfaces - Mercman 05:32:42 08/31/15 (0)
In Reply to: RE: flawed many of todays USB Audio interfaces posted by soundchekk on August 31, 2015 at 03:55:29
"You seem to understand "No Nothin'".
I didn't realize this is a common greeting in the Fatherland.
You seem to have a fixation on my work, This is good. Maybe you'll learn something.
Be Happy.
- RE: flawed many of todays USB Audio interfaces - Dynobot 16:32:34 08/30/15 (10)
In Reply to: RE: flawed many of todays USB Audio interfaces posted by Mercman on August 30, 2015 at 12:12:50
So what if your Dac does not use the +5v, are the short comings of USB gone?
I think people have accepted that USB is the best way to get digital from a computer source...seeing that some if not most have some sort of spdif out...
Then there is Blue Tooth...
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
- usb? - fmak 02:07:09 08/31/15 (2)
In Reply to: RE: flawed many of todays USB Audio interfaces posted by Dynobot on August 30, 2015 at 16:32:34
They love it as it adds a baseline cost of e50 with the usb card. Plus, of course, isolation bits and power supply with perhaps another e50. This means a retail cost of 6x base cost.
In mid-end cases, it is better and more economic to use spdif with relock and wave shaping. In high end cases 384k spdif can be had. Most computer based hardware spdif is junk, with little understanding of proper implementation.
Even some designers think that cheap phono plugs are ok, or are forced to use them.
- RE: usb? - Tony Lauck 08:19:49 08/31/15 (1)
In Reply to: RE: usb? posted by fmak on August 31, 2015 at 02:07:09
"In high end cases 384k spdif can be had. Most computer based hardware spdif is junk, with little understanding of proper implementation."
There would still be a problem with the reclocker, if it requires adapting to the incoming clock rate, since this will require a variable master clock with attendant complexity and jitter. However, this could be easily fixed by adding a clock signal (could be in SPDIF format) from the DAC back to the transport and the transport could slave to this clock. Then the "reclocker" would just be a small shift register and there would be no need for a variable frequency master clock and phase lock loop circuitry.
There remains one additional problem: conveying the speed the DAC is to operate at which will change depending on file format. This can be done by having the transport select its local clock based on the file format and use this clock whenever the clock from the DAC is at the wrong rate, but when the DAC is at the correct rate switch to the external clock. The DAC does the corresponding thing, namely when it sees that the incoming clock isn't at the same speed as its master clock it switches the master clock to the appropriate speed. (There are some messy details that need to be worked out, viz. state diagrams with timed transitions and when the analog output is muted and unmuted.)
There are also issues of DSD unless one uses the DoP kluge.
Of course this requires compatible logic on both sides, i.e. proprietary to one manufacturer or some kind of a "standard". However, were this to be done it would be advantageous over using packet based mechanisms such as USB and Ethernet, since the basic mechanism used between a transport and a DAC would also useful for isolation mechanisms within a DAC. If you compare the number of logic gates needed for this scheme and compare it with the number needed to implement any USB, Ethernet, or other packet based scheme you will see that all of the packet based schemes are obscenely more complex. This means that they will all create obscene amounts of digital noise in the proximity of critical mixed-signal and analog circuitry and hence for high end sound quality there will have to be additional isolation after this obscenely complex circuitry, adding unnecessary cost.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
- RE: usb? - Dynobot 17:13:58 08/31/15 (0)
In Reply to: RE: usb? posted by Tony Lauck on August 31, 2015 at 08:19:49
Hey Tony how many Dac's operated in this optimal format that you suggest?
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
- {I think people have accepted that USB is the best way to get digital from a computer source} - three_sox 18:10:14 08/30/15 (6)
In Reply to: RE: flawed many of todays USB Audio interfaces posted by Dynobot on August 30, 2015 at 16:32:34
...They have?Toslink?
Ethernet?
Wireless?
Even HDMI?
Or analogue?
The choices are many.I don't know if there is an unequivocally clear winner of which is best.
Smile
Sox
Edits: 08/30/15
- Winner? - fmak 01:14:04 09/03/15 (1)
In Reply to: RE: {I think people have accepted that USB is the best way to get digital from a computer source} posted by three_sox on August 30, 2015 at 18:10:14
SDIF 2 and 3, with up to 3 cables L, R, and Clock.
Not invented here as it was a Sony format but adopted by dCS. The whole chain is still affected by cabling, even an impedance matched clock cable!
- Thanks for your ... - three_sox 01:22:56 09/03/15 (0)
In Reply to: RE: Winner? posted by fmak on September 03, 2015 at 01:14:04
... Opinion.
Smile
Sox
- "Mytek recommends the use of Firewire, as it is a true streaming format." - oldmkvi 18:25:55 08/30/15 (3)
In Reply to: RE: {I think people have accepted that USB is the best way to get digital from a computer source} posted by three_sox on August 30, 2015 at 18:10:14
I use Firewire, but USB 2 doesn't work for DSD on Mytek/Mac,
So no real choice.
- RE: "Mytek recommends the use of Firewire, as it is a true streaming format." - Sprezza Tura 18:42:02 08/30/15 (2)
In Reply to: RE: "Mytek recommends the use of Firewire, as it is a true streaming format." posted by oldmkvi on August 30, 2015 at 18:25:55
Basing your whole system around a unicorn format like DSD is rather quaint.
- Quaint it is, Jack. It is Jack, isn't it? I Knew you'd live up to your rep! Thanks. nt - oldmkvi 18:58:58 08/30/15 (1)
In Reply to: RE: "Mytek recommends the use of Firewire, as it is a true streaming format." posted by Sprezza Tura on August 30, 2015 at 18:42:02
/
- RE: Quaint it is, Jack. It is Jack, isn't it? I Knew you'd live up to your rep! Thanks. nt - Sprezza Tura 19:03:09 08/30/15 (0)
In Reply to: RE: Quaint it is, Jack. It is Jack, isn't it? I Knew you'd live up to your rep! Thanks. nt posted by oldmkvi on August 30, 2015 at 18:58:58
Man your posts crack me up. Are you communicating in a secret language?
Everything your post requires a decoder. LOL. And most of your posts have nothing to do with the threads you post in. Rock on. Different drummer for sure.
- well - fmak 12:34:32 08/30/15 (0)
In Reply to: RE: flawed many of todays USB Audio interfaces posted by Mercman on August 30, 2015 at 12:12:50
you were amongst the first to sing high praises for it, with the SUSB - sometimes universal serial bus which took some years to sort.
Post a Followup:
FAQ Post a Message!
Forgot Password?
Moniker (Username): Password (Optional): Remember my Moniker & Password (What's this?)  Eat Me E-Mail (Optional): Subject:
Message: (Posts are subject to Content Rules) Optional Link URL: Optional Link Title: Optional Image URL: Upload Image: E-mail Replies: Automagically notify you when someone responds.
To view your new posting or follow-up, click on the RELOAD or REFRESH button on your browser.
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: