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In Reply to: RE: The "STATE" of Computer Audio/Digital Playback posted by Awe-d-o-file on July 26, 2015 at 07:07:10
Interesting thoughts and questions to ponder for sure.Are you talking 'high-end' computer audio / digital playback that we so passionately argue about here on a daily basis, or the general trend across the entire consumer market?
I don't have the answers but some observations that come to mind for 'high-end' audio. Here's my cynical history of digital audio with many gaping holes that you are free to fill.
- CD Players weren't good enough so high-end CD players came on the scene and soon there were hundreds to choose from all trying to differentiate themselves from the rest claiming to squeeze even more musical life out of the redbook format that had no more life to give. Parallel DAC chips were incorporated within, better DAC chips, HDCD decoders, better transport mechanisms, chassis vibration control, damping material, isolation devices, magic dots, magic rocks, big fat power cords, and interconnects, etc.
And since this still wasn't good enough separate transports and DACs came on the scene because audiophiles have been conditioned to know that 'separates' are better and 'all in one integrated' solutions are for budget limited hobbyists. But there was hope.
If your CDP had a digital output you could buy an outboard DAC..... because separates are better. So now we have outboard DACs popping up like weeds from every corner of the audiophilosphere. Now you can hopefully take that aging CDP and bring it up to the standards enjoyed only by those with separates. And don't forget the onslaught of high-end designer digital cables from all corners of globe from Monster Cable to Dingleberry's Digital Cable garage. But there had to be a better way!
- SACD Players hit the scene and more or less left the scene but not after a few years of audio euphoria over this great new invention. Fizzle pop. You can still buy SACDs just like you can still buy vinyl but the excitement is gone. No one cares except for a very few audiophiles. BestBuy no longer sells SACDs.
- Computer Audio hits the scene with very limited choices across the board initially. The PC/Mac argument rages as PC users claim there is no software choice available for Mac while they use Windows Media Player and some freebie open source players. The 'no software for Mac' issue is short lived. Dozens of audiophile players for the Mac hit the scene along with dozens of free open source players. Same for the PC. And now the market is saturated with software players so the developers are left to come up with features to differentiate themselves from the crowd. Minimalist counter culture players appear because it's no longer cool to use popular products. Same for the PC and OS itself. Why use what everyone else uses when you can DIY some 'exotics' like Linux, Pi's, Picos, and the like?
Remember those dusty old DACs from our CDP days? We now have converters, reclockers, adapters and the like so they can be attached to the ubiquitous computer USB port! But why stop there?
- USB DACs hit the scene but the early ones are adaptive in that they are governed by the PC clock and jitter is claimed to be a major problem. Asynchronous USB DACs arrive and clean up most of that mess but some die hards claim async USB is just marketing hype and a fad but we all know that is not the case. A couple excellent clocks internal to the DAC isn't enough so some DAC makers will sell you atomic clocks to bring you into the atomic age!
Lets not forget the cable makers. We need audiophile USB cables to go with our audiophile computers and DACs. But that's not enough so we have USB purifiers, sterilizers, reclockers, declockers, regenerators, isolators, insulators, terminators, injectors, and desalinators.
- Dedicated Streamers hit the market because audio manufacturers don't make money selling PCs and reviewers can't review DIY 'one-offs'. Every computer based system is different and tweaked to the owner's liking. So, Streamers are the answer claiming to eliminate the computer for those who think computers are a hassle, and they claim to sound better too. Maybe, maybe not.... but you now at least have a differentiated product with a model designation and an audiophile brand associated with it so the dealers and reviewers are happy again. And we now have dozens of brand name streamers to choose from.
But don't forget the Ethernet cables because plain-Jane CAT5E or CAT6A is so pedestrian. We need designer Ethernet cables to go with our fat power cables and interconnects. Everyone is happy now!
I do wonder if a better way will leave all of what we have today behind.
Pono
Edits: 07/29/15Follow Ups:
Read this;
The products change but not audiophiles.
The products change but not audiophiles.So true. Nice article on Meridian. Thanks.
I had a late start to 'high-end' audio around 1990 when a friend introduced me to his Nakamichi Dragon Cassette Player, Levinson CDP, Levinson preamp, Krell power amp, and Martin Logan speakers in his San Francisco apartment. I was hooked and went through a number of CDPs over time including:
- Cal Icon MkII
- Denon DCD-1650AR
- Sony XA7ES
- Cary 306/200
- Cary 303/300
- Cary 308
- Cary 308T
- Adcom GCD-700 5-disc carousel feeding Accuphase DP-65V CDP DAC section
- Accuphase DP-65V*- Philips CD Recorder (plastic parts cheap build broken within a month)
- Sony RCD-W222ES multi-disc player/recorder
- Pioneer Elite PDR-19RW player/recorder*- Denon DVD-5900 Universal Player
- Denon DVD-2900 Universal Playerand a few others I'm forgetting.
* Still own these, stored in the basement along with boxes full of CDs and vinyl.
Edits: 07/29/15 07/29/15 07/29/15
My first CD player spent half its life in the shop. Ugh.
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"I was thinking about getting that remastered Beatles mono vinyl box set, but then I decided I wanted to have sex."
Not only did the 'AudioPhool' market started pushing separtes for everything, but also made everything in the audio chain a 'Component'. From Cryo treated, Silver plated electrical outlets to Silver Fuses in your amplifiers. Nothing was too ridiculous. The higher the price tag, the more likely you were to read a glowing review in an Audio Rag.
I never saw Audiophile grade romex for electrical wiring, but would not be surprised at it in the least.
Cut-Throat
VH6 CRYO 10-2 w/ground Romex ROLL
CRYO 10-2 w/g Romex ROLL
$469.99
10-2 Cryogenically Treated Romex (10 AWG) is fantastic for dedicated lines and is UL approved for in-wall AC power use. Deep Cryogenic treatment. by American Cryogenics, using a proprietary process developed in conjunction with VH Audio.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
I did Install a separate Sub-Panel and dedicated circuit, Hospital Grade Outlets and 12 gauge romex to my Audio Room. Didn't hear a difference, but it looks cool!
Cut-Throat
... from $17 to $24 per foot.
he laughed and asked me what it cost. When I told him, he laughed again.
However, when the job was over, he said it was the easiest 20A cable he had ever worked with and wished his other customers used it, too.
Whatever.
Plus the Balanced Power Circuit Breaker/Power distribution from Equi-Tech
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
N/T
We have been remodeling our house. I used this super Romex throughout. Our food tastes better now:)
I'm surprised you don't have a Equi-Tech product.
Truth be told, my next project includes super ROMEX and of course Audiophile grade outlets etc.
Dismantled my upstairs listening room and am in the process of doing some changes.
Bad thing is, everything is in boxes and/or crowded into my office.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
I'll live the the old original wires. One can't have it all!
Sure you can!!!!!!
Where is that American Spirit!!!
WWLD?
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
Don't give them any more ideas!!!
Wow nice detailed post. Other posts here made me think of this but for me it is more about a digital format and not how it is carried out hardware-wise. Thanks!
E
T
Nice review of the topic Abe!
I think for the hobbyist, choice is good to help squeeze out as much potential sound quality. But of course this can be perceived as unnecessary to those not used to computer audio.
Ultimately, even for those involved in the fine-tuning of computer audio, we need to understand that not all claims are true and be able to separate the "wheat from the chaff".
I think the next real step is more integration of DSP techniques into playback. I've been spending time with Acourate room correction software lately for example. Wow. Substantial difference.
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Archimago's Musings : A 'more objective' audiophile blog.
Of course, I don't follow your blog, so may be it happens more often - I wouldn't know, going strictly by what you usually post here.
Now, let's employ a bit of logic:
In your opinion, would a hearing-impaired person, listening through $10 computer speakers, be able to appreciate changes - improvements, according to you - provided by digital room correction? In my opinion - not likely.
By the same token, why is it so difficult to allow a hypothesis that a person with better, more resolving audio system than yours, and possibly better hearing and more developed listening skills, can perceive audible differences MUCH subtler than the gross ones, afforded by room correction software?
Speaking of which - did you notice any trade-offs, while using it? I mean, it's known for at least 8 years (to those who bothered to experiment), that additional processing on computer side, no matter what it's doing - room correction, or infinite loop adding 1+1, or even sitting idle doing nothing, like a service listening to events - adversely affects performance, i.e. sound quality. Any thoughts on that?
Oh, and BTW - I think most folks here are pretty good at "separating wheat from the chaff". Why do you think your "can't hear, can't measure" so-called tests are routinely dismissed as useless?
I know that the things that absolutely fascinate engineers and most audio geeks, don't hold nearly as much interest for the average person. The average person is drawn to things they can hook on a belt or stick in a purse. Sad, but true, and also, probably, inevitable.The people who say the right approach is to stick as much audio capability in one, little box are absolutely right.
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"I was thinking about getting that remastered Beatles mono vinyl box set, but then I decided I wanted to have sex."
Edits: 07/27/15
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