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In Reply to: RE: Funny how a perspective of someone with actual experience differs from perspective of those without. N/T posted by carcass93 on July 24, 2015 at 12:55:24
Let's get real on this "review".
It is a major FAIL, as with the Darko and Lavorgna write ups.
They simply commit one omission that nullifies any of their findings.
They all refuse to compare the AQ to Rosewill, or equivalent, industrial grade Cat7 cable. Period. Not one.
There is not a single review out their with the guts to take on a fairly large company, by audiophile industry standards, like AQ for obvious reasons.
Follow Ups:
Hi Abe,
René van Es on ear.net compared a Supra CAT7 cable to the AQ cables.
When I reviewed these cables nearly 3 years ago, the main question was not whether different CAT-level cables can make a difference, the question was, and still is for some people, whether Ethernet cables can make a difference.
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
Michael:
Did you mean to respond to Abe or me?
Thanks for info on ear.net.
Yes, my mistake. This was only my second post on AA in a while so I really should slow down and pay closer attention.
My pleasure on the ear.net link.
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
No worries. For the record, a search here will find that I have posted many of your reviews here, I especially like what you do with sources.
I hope you don't feel upended in that I really feel AQ got a free pass with reviews for their ethernet cable, not comparing it to far cheaper, yet high quality CAT7 options is just common sense to me.
Thanks!
I was of the opinion that Ethernet cables couldn't make any difference going into the first review so I just used the cable I was using for comparison which was a CAT5 cable. Once I heard a difference, I bought a $16.99 CAT6 cable from Staples and used it as well.
One reason I focused on the CAT5 cable for comparison purposes in my reivews was to instigate conversation. Since most people were saying Ethernet cables cannot possibly make a difference, by using a CAT5 cable I had people comment as to why a CAT7 cable would be a more appropriate comparison. This brought the importance of shielding into the conversation from people with the requisite knowledge to discuss why this may be an important factor when choosing an Ethernet cable.
While I touched on this in my first review, I felt it might be taken more seriously if a number of people talked about shielding and noise in the comments. While this did in fact happen, it didn't seem to sway anyone's opinion.
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
thanks for the follow up.i remember the review and the follow up comments.
i kinda get you were in a no win situation.
here is what irks some..AQ uses the rattiest CAT5 cable in their live demos and in their invite, press only demos at their factory. More than a little disingenuous. I have seen this first hand at several demos.
The fact that the 5 or 6 reviews that have been published have done the same, except for the one you noted, makes it look like reviewers are kinda following AQ's lead. Here is an example..when John Darko was asked about what control cable AQ used at a show he attended, where was happily reporting how good AQ cables sounded in comparison to the control..he replied he had no clue. I can't imagine not knowing or asking..if I actually gave a damn.
for the record, I absolutely believe ethernet cables make a difference other wise i would not blather on about using CAT7 instead of CAT5.
One of the reasons I post Audiostream reviews here often is I think you do show that natural curiosity and a desire to drill down and find out why things affect the sound that really does serve the readers.
Edits: 07/29/15
Thank you for the kind comments. They are very much appreciated.
I obviously have a vested interest in making AudioStream a valuable resource for our readers. That's not only the job I was hired to do, I could not imagine living with myself if it wasn't the case when I go to work every day.
John Darko, whom I consider a friend, used a Blue Jeans CAT6 cable for comparison in his review. In terms of the AQ Ethernet demos, they are clearly intended to show their cables in the best possible light. I would think it foolish of them to do otherwise. I personally don't place much value in these kinds of demos and prefer to make decisions based on hearing things in my own room/system.
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
Just one more comment..I promise!!..i like the way you bring in industry experts, sometimes even two at a time with TOTALLY opposing views, to help explain certain highly technical matters. Many reviewers just fake it, which is just sad. It takes a humble journalist and someone who really is trying to serve the readers to say "hey, I don't understand this stuff or know how to explain it, but here is someone who can."I get what you are saying about AQ, but we don't expect a journalist to fall for their trying to put their products in the best light. It extends beyond pure marketing when the get John Darko, who i also like, to fly home down under and rave about what he heard at a sham demo. Journalistic due diligence would require he report what the control cable was and the entire chain.
Keep up da good work!
Edits: 07/29/15
The Q&As are among my personal favorites. Having access to the people behind the products is something I value and I really should do more of them. There's one in the works which will hit in a few weeks that I'm really looking forward to. There's nothing like learning.
I have also written about the AQ demos and I agree with your point. I should have taken more care in describing the specifics of the setup.
Cheers.
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
Did you read the article?
He compared it to a "CAT7" cable he sourced.
============================
As audiophiles, we take what's obsolete, make it beautiful, and keep it forever.
Hey! I have a blog now: http://mancave-stereo.blogspot.com or "like" us at https://www.facebook.com/mancave.stereo
Perhaps I missed it. Please point out where he compares the AQ to Cat7 cable. I saw he used Cat6 cable he purchased from a vendor called Cable Matters on Amazon.
Oh, wait. I just went back and re-read the article. Should have paid closer attention. You are correct, it was Cat-6, not pseudo Cat-7.
*blush*
============================
As audiophiles, we take what's obsolete, make it beautiful, and keep it forever.
Hey! I have a blog now: http://mancave-stereo.blogspot.com or "like" us at https://www.facebook.com/mancave.stereo
Uh yeh exactly. You had me worried, but I re-read this POS write up and thankfully I have not lost it...yet.
Appreciate the follow up.
I found in my house that paying attention to shielding, calbe routing, and what switches I was using paid off in throughput in the network. When I upgraded to gigabit internet (long story. but if you can ... DO!) I found my wired network was much slower than my wireless. I upgraded my router, cables and switches and found that my sound improved greatly when I switched to shielded cables (pseudo Cat-7). Another neat trick is to get the gret 3M anti-static bags and wrap them around the areas where you connect cables - or individual cables, and throughput improves, too. But I had to buy and ditch a few cables that were supposed to be "Cat-7" that weren't even shielded, or in one case the shield was on the cabl but not hooked up to the shield don the connector!
I also had to move my phono amp away from my switch further, too. That helped with records.
I'll be honest with you - when I saw the cross section of the Audioquest, I realized that with a slightly larger budget, and a little less tech, I'd buy Pearls to Cinnamon and be done with it in the "problem solved" kind of way.
None of this is rocket science.
And for the record, I didn't find the Part Time review to be a POS. But horses for courses!
============================
As audiophiles, we take what's obsolete, make it beautiful, and keep it forever.
Hey! I have a blog now: http://mancave-stereo.blogspot.com or "like" us at https://www.facebook.com/mancave.stereo
This is why I pay little attention to reviewers. My working assumption is that they are whores until proven otherwise.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Hi Tony,I've followed your posts here and have found you to be a reasonable person. So I'm wondering, beyond me simply stating that I am not a whore, what kind of proof would make you change your mind?
Thanks.
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
Edits: 07/29/15
There is nothing to prove. You and your web site are not on my "do not read list". If there is an article on a subject that interests me I will read it and if it appears to be factual and relatively unbiased I will enjoy and/or use it. I have nothing against people of the (R), (M) or (D) persuasion per se, but I follow the principle of caveat emptor and assume that all three groups of people are trying to sell me something, even something that I may not need, unless proven otherwise.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Thank you for the clarification Tony.
Michael Lavorgna
Editor, AudioStream.com
Although I get your drift, it is not so black and white.
Real journalists are in business of "selling" information which could be quite useful. There is not always an ulterior motive, and many times there is.
Broadcast networks were given licenses to use the airwaves with the concession that they serve the public good in the course of their making a profit. That is how prime time news started. Of course that has all been forgotten and networks offer infotainment, and have totally and completely ceased to fulfill their obligation to the public, as detailed in the stellar HBO series, Newsroom.
"This is why I pay little attention to reviewers. My working assumption is that they are whores until proven otherwise."Thanks for the chuckle. It must be rather confusing for you to read Stereophile and then go to a burlesque show. ;-)
You might read the review before pronouncing judgement.
============================
As audiophiles, we take what's obsolete, make it beautiful, and keep it forever.
Hey! I have a blog now: http://mancave-stereo.blogspot.com or "like" us at https://www.facebook.com/mancave.stereo
Edits: 07/27/15
Yes, exactly right....
As I mentioned in the other thread... this kind of poor testing/reviewing needs to be fixed as it could be that whatever these high priced audio manufacturers are doing, makes no significant difference.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Okay, color me interested.
How would you perform a test, then?
============================
As audiophiles, we take what's obsolete, make it beautiful, and keep it forever.
Hey! I have a blog now: http://mancave-stereo.blogspot.com or "like" us at https://www.facebook.com/mancave.stereo
Use a much wider sample group.
As stated numerous times by others, comparing an Audioquest Diamond to a cheap CAT 5e is essentially creating a straw man.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
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