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In Reply to: RE: Ars Technica dissects an AudioQuest Vodka ethernet cable posted by Jaundiced Ear on July 23, 2015 at 22:01:41
you could almost certainly use them for 10-gigabit Ethernet over 100-meter runs [but] . . . you can also use other shielded Cat7-equivalent Ethernet cables that cost one-tenth the Vodkas' price for the same purpose, so the fact that they're high quality cables doesn't really justify the price.Without defending AQ's IMHO absurd prices, it's hard to miss that the product is explicitly aimed at the audio sector. How it compares to mainstream LAN products in conventional LAN settings has nothing to do with the price of eggs. Or fancy cables, even. IOW, it's a red herring, a straw man argument, whatever.
I am not smart enough or educated enough to judge the manufacturer's claim that the silver coating is "excellent for very high-frequency applications, like Ethernet audio," and that the high-frequency signals "travel almost exclusively on the surface of the conductor" and thus "use" the silver instead of the underlying copper.
As JE notes, ML also picked this one up. What it led me to wonder was what qualifications the author does have to review what is, by any stretch, an esoteric product. It's not as if he's even reporting on listening tests.
Note BTW that if his links are to be believed, the cable was bought from an Amazon dealer, not AQ. An e-mail to the latter might have determined whether the rather amateur looking use of masking tape is standard practice or even whether the cable was a genuine AQ product. All that guff about ethical behaviour is a diversion - Ars Technica's was anything but.
Folk here shout at Mercman because he sometimes starts his review procedure by talking to manufacturers. Maybe it's not such a bad idea after all . . .
Edits: 07/24/15Follow Ups:
"Folk here shout at Mercman because he sometimes starts his review procedure by talking to manufacturers. Maybe it's not such a bad idea after all . . . "I try to get the manufacturers to tell me things often not found on their sites. In the case of my last review of the MSB Technology Premium Quad USB module, I was able to include detailed information of the design not otherwise found.
I can only think of one inmate that likes to shout at me, but given his comments, he obviously doesn't take the time to read the reviews in their entirety.
Edits: 07/25/15
I'd like to know what qualifications the Audioquest cable designer has who designed these cables. This would help me understand what's esoteric about these cables (other than their price).
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Given the information at hand (the cross section, the ad copy, some reviews) someone skilled in the art who is qualified to judge would already know.
============================
As audiophiles, we take what's obsolete, make it beautiful, and keep it forever.
Hey! I have a blog now: http://mancave-stereo.blogspot.com or "like" us at https://www.facebook.com/mancave.stereo
But it doesn't stop some inmates here to conclude that it doesn't serve the purpose for which it is made. I don't use many AQ products but the higher end stuff do exude care and quality in construction over commercial computer products.
Silver coating? This is standard AQ and anyone interested in high quality audio should know about the skin effect along which hf signals ride.
"Note BTW that if his links are to be believed, the cable was bought from an Amazon dealer, not AQ. An e-mail to the latter might have determined whether the rather amateur looking use of masking tape is standard practice or even whether the cable was a genuine AQ product."
That's a bit of a stretch IMHO to think that the cable might not be genuine. There are a number of legit audio dealers who sell through Amazon as well as their own store front be it online or brick and mortar.
That's a bit of a stretch IMHO to think that the cable might not be genuine.
Not necessarily. The review cites a page on AQ's web site. Those who bother to check it will note that it prominently links to a warning about counterfeit products that offers to authenticate any cable claiming to be genuine. Finding that the cable under test was made using roughly wound masking tape seems a pretty good reason for any half-way intelligent reviewer to ask AQ to have a look at it before going public with a review. (BTW I did NOT suggest that most that most Amazon dealers are not perfectly upright.)
It's interesting that a couple folks (in the comments after the article) called this cable out for not being CAT7 at all
Although the reviewer says that "There's every indication that the cables conform to the listed Category 7 specifications", that remark and the comments thereon are sloppy. A quick look at AQ's site shows that it does not describe the cables as CAT7 though I accept that its wording is misleading, perhaps intentionally so.
I am certain that some will 'hear' the benefits of CAT7 cables from AudioQuest and others.
I'm equally certain that you won't so what's the point of raising the issue (aka repeating the jibe) again and again and again? It's tiresome. See my post below for a report on hearing differences between pretty modestly priced LAN cables (ten or a dozen times cheaper than AQ's and on a par with commerical grade mainstream LAN cables). I even suggest why that might be the case. Unlike you, I've compared them, more than once.
To repeat, I'm not defending AQ's products (bar an ancient but treasured AQ-branded tonearm actually made by Jolida, I've not tried them and don't plan to) or its outlandish pricing policy.
I'm simply pointing out that Ars Technica's reviews are pretty shabby and that its ethical policies don't seem much better. A corollary is that those who persist in citing its reviews ought perhaps to read them with a little more care. After all, if they don't, they leave themselves open to a charge of propagating audio mythology . . .
What do you know - it's here now!
As usual, it's a sure sign of lack of experience with matters discussed, and also lack of willingness to gain such experience.
I'm equally certain that you won't so what's the point of raising the issue.
True. Some of us know blatant snake oil when we see it.
I'm simply pointing out that Ars Technica's reviews are pretty shabby and that its ethical policies don't seem much better. A corollary is that those who persist in citing its reviews ought perhaps to read them with a little more care. After all, if they don't, they leave themselves open to a charge of propagating audio mythology . . .
Sounds familiar... Just like every review we read in main stream audiophile magazines.
I find it interesting that whenever anyone starts talking about "snake oil" they have usually been reading Skeptics' websites.Interestingly enough, I am curious. What about the Vodka cable is "snake oil?"
The only valid complaints I can see so far are:
1. CAT7 isn't an official standard, and since they aren't using the GG45 connector, the cable can't possibly be real CAT7, but some sort of Paeuso CAT7. While they do use copious shielding on the connector, it can only be rated as an over built CAT-6a technically.
2. It is expensive (a little over $100/foot). And even though the prices for their ethernet series starts at $8/foot, we're talking about *this* cable and boy is it expensive.
3. It seems somewhat over-engineered (Though that masking tape is weird. You'd think in a overbuilt expensive cable everything would be expensive in it?)
.----
For something to be "Snake Oil" is has to be like the patent medicine issued in the 19th century -- It cannot possibly do what it says on the bottle.
From what I can tell, the Vodka cable does what it claims to do. It carries ethernet signals. It's well shielded (if overbuilt) which would convey any benefits of shielding where it is used. It's only fault is that it is expensive, somewhat mitigated by the range of prices in their range.
That's not snake oil.
============================
As audiophiles, we take what's obsolete, make it beautiful, and keep it forever.
Hey! I have a blog now: http://mancave-stereo.blogspot.com or "like" us at https://www.facebook.com/mancave.stereo
Edits: 07/27/15
"For something to be "Snake Oil" is has to be like the patent medicine issued in the 19th century -- It cannot possibly do what it says on the bottle."
Having looked at the AudioQuest web page describing this product, I have to admit that they make no claims whatsoever regarding the "audibility" of the product, other than to caution that the product is "directional" (in an Ethernet cable?) and for best results "have the arrow pointing in the direction of the flow of music. For example, NAS to Router, Router to Network Player."
Caveat Emptor!
JE
Thanks for the followup.
I'm always a little skeptical about directionality, too. But, when I have put in cables in the 'ol stereo, I usually "follow the directions" -- and since most of the cables I have in the interconnect variety are XLR, so there isn't a lot of choice.
I agree, I think the strongest thing you can say about AQ's Vodka is "Caveat EMptor" you really can't accuse them of being liars.
============================
As audiophiles, we take what's obsolete, make it beautiful, and keep it forever.
Hey! I have a blog now: http://mancave-stereo.blogspot.com or "like" us at https://www.facebook.com/mancave.stereo
and ALL of the Amazon sellers listed for that product were indeed Audioquest dealers (according to Audioquest's web site).
Ebay?
Not so much.
I was looking at Audioquest USB cables on Amazon . . . and ALL of the Amazon sellers listed for that product were indeed Audioquest dealers (according to Audioquest's web site).
Fair point. Yes, the dealer cited in Ars Technica's review, Electronics Expo, is accredited by AQ.
I'd still have asked AQ to check the cable out if only to have the company admit in writing that the masking tape is pukka.
D
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