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Anyone else out there fiddling with the previews of Windows 10?
I've noticed that since build 10130 Windows 10 refuses to play audio at any of the 41000 Hz settings. Anyone else have that experience? I'm now on build 10159 and it still doesn't work. You can get the 48000 Hz settings to work.
Now this is only on a modest PC that only has a built in Realtek chip for the audio. Still, with only a month to go before RTM it concerns me that something so fundamental could be so broken.
JE
Follow Ups:
J-Ear,
I contacted the Windows 10 sound & device driver group. If you have details on your setup and testing, why don't you list them and I will pass it on.
Thanks,
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin
installed and left all the sampling rates enabled!
Thanks again for your help!
JE
Why, thank you!
Actually, I finally figured out and resolved the issue on my own. It was a combination of a sucker punch and user error.
It is a Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3H mother board with Realtek ALC887 audio. Core i3 processor, 4 gigs of RAM, and 64 bit Windows 10 Pro preview.
The issue was that apparently from Build 10130 onward, the installation process goes into:
Sound->
Realtek Digital Output->
Properties->
Supported Formats
and then disables all sampling rates except for 48.0 kHz.
This is not obvious when using the controls for the actual output devices, as they show the newly unsupported sampling rates exactly as they did before. Those newly unsupported sampling rates just won't work anymore. Further, if you try to use an unsupported sampling rate it may also kill off the supported 48.0 kHz sampling rate you were just using. You then have to fiddle with different bit depths to restore the original functionality. Even when re-enabling the unsupported sampling rates in the appropriate properties dialog box you still have to fiddle around with various bit depths in order to "activate" them.
I didn't figure this out until I was on Build 10162. (Man, what a week this has been for updates!) I do know that the 44.1 kHz sampling was left enabled by Windows 8.1 and by the various builds of Windows 10 up until 10130. I do not know if disabling the non-48.0 kHz sampling rates was a one time thing with Build 10130 and subsequent builds simply left things as they found them or if this is still recurring in subsequent builds. I guess I'll find out the answer to that after the next build is released.
So, please pass on to your contacts at Microsoft that people don't only use 48.0 kHz sampling rates. How about at least enabling both the 48.0 kHz and the 44.1 kHz sampling rates by default? Or, how about noting what the user has previously selected and enabling those sampling rates? Further, if a sampling rate is not enabled, how about providing some indication in the properties for the various audio devices that those rates are not enabled?
Thanks again for your time and trouble with this! It is much appreciated!
JE
Edit: had to delete entire post in order to add "Problem Resolved!" to subject line.
je
> I've noticed that since build 10130 Windows 10 refuses to play audio at
> any of the 41000 Hz settings.
You mean 44,100Hz. If you try to set the audio output to 41,000Hz, it won't
play.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
JE
N/T
Probably not a priority right now for MS as they don't care about audio. Your only hope might be to wait a month until the official release and see if it's fixed. I'm in no hurry for Windows 10 but I'm signed up for a couple free upgrades from 7 and 8.1.
I'm pretty sure that if you opted in to that reservation program MS offered your PCs are going to flip to Windows 10 on July 29th. The point of that program was to allow MS to preposition code on participants' PCs so they wouldn't be struggling with MS' overwhelmed servers on July 29th.
Let us know what you think about it!
JE
I don't know. I've been very close to getting the Windows 10 preview, but I noticed that it could be out by August 1st anyway, so I might as well wait.
What exactly does all these Hz settings do for you? Just wondering as I just play with normal settings usually, which is?? Isn't 41KHz the normal sampling rate anyway??
I briefly tried Windows 10 at the Microsoft store: I found it as disorienting going BACK to the Start button as when I first found out that Windows 8 DIDN'T have a Start button!
" Isn't 41KHz the normal sampling rate anyway??"
It is if you are playing CDs or FLACs ripped from CDs. Other sources, such as DVDs or downloaded music files, may have other sampling rates. The idea is to match the PC's sampling rate to that of your source. If you've read these forums for a while you'll know that I'm a champion of CD resolution playback (Redbook), so this failing in Windows 10 is a pretty big deal for me.
JE
Most likely, this is hardware related and/or device driver related. It could also be "cockpit error" on your part as there could be new rules as to how programs share the audio stack and who gets control over sampling rate.
Frankly, I could care less about bugs related to the Windows audio stack. My two DACs both have ASIO drivers and I don't use the Windows audio stack for playing music files.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
I'm guessing it's driver related. Builds before 10130 worked fine. 10130 killed off the 44,100Hz settings and they haven't worked since. This is not some fancy third party sound card either, but the bog stock Realtek chip. It shows in the device manager, says it is properly installed, it just doesn't play sound unless it's on one of the 48,000Hz settings.
I don't use this PC for high end audio, but I do use it watch things such as you tube or news snippets. Sound can be pretty important for them, too!
JE
Pretending that 44.1 kHz is SO important for watching youtube or whatever on your PC is rubbish, honestly.
As long as it plays, it's fine.
In this context worrying about sound quality would be wasted energy.
Now if Win10 somehow refused to let your music player software, like foobar, play your existing .wav files at 44.1kHz, now THAT would be a problem. But I wouldn't put it past the intellectual property lawyers to arrange something like that, since by now there must be billions of .wav hard drive copies of CDs burned by, say, EAC or dB power amp, and those are potentially copyright issues for any software manufacturer, including Microsoft. These are real issues. I certainly doubt there is any paid lobby which would pay to have 44.1khZ decoding included in the feature set of win10. But Microsoft would look pretty stupid if it refused to play its own .wav file format completely.
I'm not saying sound quality is an issue on that particular machine, far from it. I am saying that it is a test machine for the Windows 10 previews, and for the last month or so a pretty core part of Windows audio has been broken. If you set the audio output to 44100Hz, you get NO sound output.
JE
"I am saying that it is a test machine for the Windows 10 previews, and for the last month or so a pretty core part of Windows audio has been broken. If you set the audio output to 44100Hz, you get NO sound output."
Windows audio is of zero interest to anyone serious. It is a non-issue.
I have to disagree. While "serious" may mean a studio or producer of commercial projects with extensive facilities, multiple sessions and lots of editing, it can also mean someone - such as myself - who does recordings for schools and other organizations like churches and local performing groups, who will not pay $1,000+ to have their recording done on a purpose-built audio recording and editing system. I know a guy who has such a rig for location recording. He brings $25,000 worth of stuff to a site, and gets paid $500 for 6 hours of work. The numbers just don't add up. On the other hand, a Win-based PC with a good sound card, a FireWire or other interface, five good microphones and preamps can be had for under $10,000, and still get paid $300 - $500 for the job.:)
Edits: 07/03/15
As carcass93 already mentioned players will bypass the Win audio.
I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about dedicated hard drive recorders which don't use Windows PCs.
:)
I personally do not do any computer recording and I think most here do not either. The last recording I did was on half track tape several milleniums ago! :)
Instead, to built-in audio facilities (services etc.) in Windows OS, which get completely bypassed in properly used for audio playback Windows machine.
Windows Audio is kind of irrelevant in a context of quality audio playback.However, DirectSound still has to be able to function at correct sample rate - I wouldn't want to hear signal resampled to 48 KHz, even if it's only for sampling music on YouTube, through Realtek chip and Yamaha computer speakers.
Edits: 07/02/15
Normally when I listen to music I don't run any other applications. But sometimes I use the computer to play samples from music web sites or watch videos. If I do this, then Firefox glombs on to the Windows 7 audio stack and will lock in the sample rate. If I then try to run HQPlayer through the ASIO interface there can be a "war" as to the sample rate. Sometimes the result is comical, reminiscent of playing an LP on the wrong turntable speed. The cure is to exit both applications and start over. One other thing that I discovered is that the Mytek driver is perfectly happy to take audio from its ASIO interface and its Windows interface and mix them.
It is possible to avoid all of these conflicts by dispatching the Windows audio stack to a different audio device. This is the only certain cure, and it guarantees no "You have mail!" warnings coming out of the speakers. Another way for me to lock out Windows is to run HQPlayer and have it convert to DSD. This puts the device driver and DAC in DSD mode and the Windows audio stack doesn't support DSD, so it's locked out.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
That would indeed be a big deal.
Joe
Yes, I meant 44,100Hz. And yes, to me it seems like a pretty big deal.
JE
Joe
d
Edits: 07/01/15 07/06/15
"The jitter is out of control."
As if jitter were somehow all a software problem.
del
Edits: 07/03/15 07/06/15
Mind explaining or providing links to evidence of improvements you've made and how this jitter reduction software is supposed to work?
You haven't the slightest idea of what you are talking about, so the two of you will get along perfectly.
del
Edits: 07/06/15
Please explain what you talking about?
Tell us about each OS or a core and process level and how they differ and how this can cause or effect jitter...
del
Edits: 07/06/15
So you're one of those posters who when replying to a post has nothing on topic to say, but still has to say something?
JE
d
Edits: 07/06/15
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