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In Reply to: RE: Anything with an OS in it can be used as AV streamer - however, I don't get the attraction .... posted by AbeCollins on June 30, 2015 at 12:48:40
"Have you considered using variable linear DC power for your fans"
I have not since I am not using any fans.
"The control pulses are the real source of electrical noise in this situation, not so much the fan itself."
Yes they are and even for the MAC John Swenson designed a fan controller. Along with the Regen IMO necessary MAC upgrades.
Follow Ups:
I might order a Regen just for grins but I believe much of it's potential benefit is already achieved within the Ayre DAC. I could try it with a couple of my DACs to see if it benefits one more so than the others.
"believe much of it's potential benefit is already achieved within the Ayre DAC"
I believe you might be very wrong. You should read some of what people have been saying. The improvements are unrelated to what DAC you are using.
You should read some of the more in depth reviews of the Ayre QB-9 DSD DAC. Much of the USB isolation, noise reduction, 5v eliminating 'tweaks' out there are IN this DAC. But it's not exactly clear to me what the Regen attempts to do that some DACs may already accomplish within their chassis. Could be a fun little toy to tinker with considering it's reasonable price. On the other hand, one has to wonder if these inexpensive little devices are so effective why would a DAC maker not include similar capability and build them into their DACs. I think that's a reasonable question.
Edits: 06/30/15
"You should read some of the more in depth reviews of the Ayre QB-9 DSD DAC. Much of the USB isolation, noise reduction, 5v eliminating 'tweaks' out there are IN this DAC."
I have read the reviews and I'm very familiar with it.
" But it's not exactly clear to me what the Regen attempts to do that some DACs may already accomplish within their chassis. "
The REGEN cleans up the power and regenerates the signal right before it gets to the DAC. I think it would be good trick for a DAC to regenerate the signal before it gets to the DAC.
" On the other hand, one has to wonder if these inexpensive little devices are so effective why would a DAC maker not include similar capability and build them into their DACs. I think that's a reasonable question."
This is like saying how come doctors were not using penicillin before it was invented.
This is the first external device to do what the PPA studio card or Jplay card do for USB. All the people with Macs, laptops or other systems that cannot be expanded now are able to improve their USB output.
I think it would be good trick for a DAC to regenerate the signal before it gets to the DAC.
Not at all, the identical "regen" circuitry can be built right into the chassis and right at at the USB input. Why must it be in an external box?
This is like saying how come doctors were not using penicillin before it was invented.
Not at all like that. I'm sure that signal conditioning circuity does not have to reside in a box external to the DAC chassis.
If you read the CA forum you will learn that people hear further improvements when two Regens are daisy chained. JS provides an explanation for why this is so. Along these lines it is entirely plausible that the Regen will improve DACs that have excellent, albeit imperfect isolation from their digital input.One other thing to consider. It is common practice in RF devices that do filtering to isolate multiple sections of filters in separate boxes. This provides a perfectly good explanation for putting (some) stages of isolation outboard from the DAC itself. If this offends you, you can always get yourself a cardboard shoe box and put several components inside it and call it your "DAC". If you try this, I suggest punching some holes in the lid so your critter can breathe.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Edits: 07/01/15
"If this offends you, you can always get yourself a cardboard shoe box and put several components inside it and call it your "DAC". If you try this, I suggest punching some holes in the lid so your critter can breathe."
ROTFLMAO!!!
"Not at all, the identical "regen" circuitry can be built right into the chassis and right at at the USB input. Why must it be in an external box?"
Because it is...
No matter how counterintuitive something is, once you get a thought you latch on and do not let go. Do you own a pit bull?
Of course they could. They could also build different cables inside the box to switch in order to change the sound. They can actually build the computer inside the box too... Oh they have... It is a streamer...
You have not answered my perfectly legit question because the question is too simple and obvious. And we are all too aware that audiophiles are often too insane to comprehend the obvious.
It is difficult to tell if you are actually stupid or just acting stupid. My guess maybe the former.Of course any manufacturer could put anything in a box, did you ever think that maybe they haven't thought of it, this is something new in our field.
Just like prior to USB audio interfaces being built into DACs they were external and people connected them via SPDIF.
For some reason you think your stupid point that nobody has done this yet actually lessens credibility of the device, it doesn't. It is such a stupid question why does someone actually have to answer it for you?
Edits: 07/01/15
is when you call your opponent stupid multiple times.
You just seem so smart and superior when you do that.
"opponent"
This is not a game! Games or sports have "opponents"...
This is people trying to have an intelligent conversation.. Maybe you should try it sometimes.
lol
"This is not a game! Games or sports have "opponents"...
really, No_Tech? I don't know if I'll ever recover my former sense of dignity after this scathing bout of having been put in my place.
So your idea of having intelligent conversation is calling someone stupid over and over again like a broken record without ever actually discussing technical subjects?
Linked below.Looks awfully familiar - managed to antagonize at least 4 different people in the same thread with nasty, clueless, insidious BS, putting down a product he'd never heard, or even seen in flesh.
Makes you wonder why he is allowed to be - and do damage - here.
Edits: 07/01/15 07/01/15 07/01/15
That is funny as hell!!! LOl God only knows what he would say about Julius Futterman or Hiroyasu Kondo amplifiers...
I am glad we have an expert in out midst..
It is like kindergarten show and tell...
Or, best (worst?) case, the difference will be so insignificant, that it won't make sense to stress over, but instead "rather just listen to music".
Count on it.
I think part of the problem especially for people who keep DAC searching is that they don't realize that they can improve their front-end significantly, and this may and this search.
By just keep ignoring this that will never get anywhere and just keep buying a new DAC trying to find something better and still never get the sound they want. .
We have all done this to some degree, but honestly lately I'm listening to something pretty old actually. I'm not using my DSD DAC or my ESS saber minimax plus, instead it's an old Pacific Valve modified NOS DAC. It only goes up to 96 but with the newest Jplay 6.1 streamer and Audiophile Optimizer it sounds totally amazing.
At the end of the day some people will probably never really want to understand that all these things in the chain do matter. There is still no such thing as a perfect DAC that will take whatever you put into it and make it sound great.
Even if this perfect DAC ever does exist I still feel improving the front end will always have a significant effect on sound quality.
is going to lead to endless frustration.
After spending tons of money.
I think that it's a good idea to swap in a decent mid-high-end CDP or a decent turntable as a reference point. This is where Carcass, (and others), get a good perspective on things as their/our DACs are the same as our CDPs.
Besides there are far too many DACs on the market, it's digital file transports, sans DACs, that are rare.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
If one throws into the equation different media types this can be helpful. But there may be pitfalls.
If one's speakers in one's room are too bright this may make some DACs sound hopeless. Switching to a vinyl rig that is itself rolled off may alleviate the problem and the conclusion might be that the problem was the DAC, whereas it might have been elsewhere. It might even have been that the system itself was OK, but the recordings used in the testing had problems.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Tony,
You can always come up with these type of issues but hopefully one uses varied music and is familiar with what they're listening to. Also you would hope that the individual understand their system and its shortcomings before they make drastic decisions. Not every vinyl system has to be rolled off, nor one speakers bright. I would hope that if someone lives with the system they have built one to their taste and can make intelligent choices when adding to it.
Indeed, hopefully one knows what one is doing. However, getting to this point requires a certain amount of listening, studying, and the experience of making mistakes.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
"some people will probably never really want to understand that all these things in the chain do matter".
It's some kind of mental block, more than anything else. After they convince themselves that their source is "good enough", the only way they see to improve sound is to go on a merry-go-round of swapping DACs. Of course, without ever realizing that they have no chance of even coming close to a full potential of any of those DACs.
It's the same as with some people endlessly swapping speakers, while keeping their mass-market POS receivers, or some vanishing THD solid-state wonder-amps from 80's.
I think part of the problem especially for people who keep DAC searching is that they don't realize that they can improve their front-end significantly, and this may and this search.
By just keep ignoring this that will never get anywhere and just keep buying a new DAC trying to find something better and still never get the sound they want. .
Exactly the same can be said of those who tweak their source endlessly and never bother to try a variety of DACs. Some of us are perfectly happy with the way our systems sound but we enjoy trying different gear. For example, I have owned dozens of amps in the past 20 years or so and a handful of recent DACs.
While improving the front end may have a significant effect on sound quality especially if the source is pretty bad to begin with, it is my experience that a much bigger difference can be readily heard among various DACs. For example, the Luxman DA-06 and Wavelength Brick v3 are the polar opposites of the PS Audio NuWave and W4S DAC2. A couple tweeks do alter the sonics of my source but nothing like the different DACs.
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