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Hi and sorry if the topic has been already discussed.
In case please redirect me to the discussion.
I have a cheap chinese media player with some Android 4.X operating system.
I have installed the USB AUDIO PLAYER PRO app and the device sees a Gustard U12 usb to spdif converter.
Even using VLC player the sound is nice and not worse than my win 7 pc.
I mean, if i am not wrong Android is a rib of Linux OS that many Inmates use with success.
The question ... has an Android player any chance to be a good audio streamer/renderer ?
I remember some issues about latency for instance.
I would like to know if someone has tried one of these media player as digital source.
Thanks a lot.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 05/17/15Follow Ups:
Hi
I will try this one in the picture in the weekend hoping to find a decent compatible dac in the house
I have already uploaded the UAPP app and found at least one usb heapdhone dac working,
The sound is a little weaker than with my desktop pc
I think it is a power issue on the usb port of the media player working with just 5V ( i would have preferred 12V)
Anyway i am curious
I read of the intrinsic limits of a OS developed for tablet and smartphone
But i have to try anyway.
Thanks a lot.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 05/20/15 05/20/15
The main issue with Android is that the OS typically mangles the data.
You'll have a hard time to get bit-transparent (sample rate and volume usually gets adjusted) out.
However. USB Audio Player Pro uses its own "infrastructure" and that includes its own USB driver. That's the app to go for if you look for a clean stream.
Class Compliant USB Audio is officially supported from Android 5.0 onwards. However I recall there were e.g. old Samsung devices with Android 3.0 that were supporting USB DACs.
BUT. Even Android 5.0 won't guarantee that all USB DACs will work.
E.g. My Fireface UCX is causing cyclic restarts on my LG G3 on Android 5.0.2. I'm pretty sure that more DACs are causing issues. "Class Compliant" can mean a lot.
You still need to try each and every DAC and mobile device and OS implementation (manufacturer) if it is properly working.
Beside that you can't tweak a phone OS like I can tweak e.g. my Raspberry Pi OS. If your DAC requires lot's of transport related optimizations for best sound, Android on a mobile device IMO won't be the last word.
However. With USB Audio player Pro and a working DAC you can end up with
decent system.
Have fun.
Hi and thanks a lot for your always kind and very valuable advice.
You state " With USB Audio player Pro and a working DAC you can end up with decent system "
this reflects my impression as well.
I have an opinion on OS ... if they work ok even with very limited HW they are potentially very ok for audio streaming.
And i also think that they could be made bit-trasparent very easily.
Main issue, as usual, are drivers.
The support for Android from high-end audio manufacturers is not existing. And i do not understan why.
Is it really so difficult to write a driver for Android ?
I have uploaded usb audio player pro on the Hi Media Q5 in the picture
I have to try again in the weekend ... but i heard interesting noises.
I have to try with more calm anyway.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
The driver is part of the kernel (OS) and usually not part of an app.
Writing a driver is a hell of a job.
Especially writing a generic USB audio driver.
Most audio device manufacturers still do not officially support Alsa (Linux/Android > 1billion devices!!). They just call the device "Class Compliant" to stay out of potential trouble and liability claims. This way they can't be nailed on any commitments and still grep a piece of the huge Linux/Android cake.
However. To make many so called "Class Compliant" dacs work, it requires intense troubleshooting and reverse engineering by the community. Class Compliancy does not always mean the device works under Linux/Android.
Usually so called "quirks" (small device specific adaptations) need to be added to the driver to get this or that DAC working.
In my case with the RME Fireface UCX and Android 5.0, I don't have any chance to get it working. RME doesn't consider themselves responsible, even though they claim "Class Compliancy". Android won't feel responsible either. A catch 22.
Bottom line. My advise: Before finally buying a DAC, make sure it is working on all operating systems. Otherwise stay away from it.
Cheers
Hi and thanks a lot again for the very helpful advice and interesting explanations.
"Class Compliancy" would be a very good feature for any dac indeed.
I looked at pc audio mainly because i like the opportunity to have all my collection on a NAS and stream it from there.
Actually a streamer could do the work more easily and the 1st good rule, i think, would be to dedicate a unit only to audio.
In order to bypass the dac drivers issue i would use a usb to spdif converter class compliant.
I understand it is another element in the chain, increasing the number of variables. I will try anyway. I am reading about these converters a lot because i have always in mind the dream for a good old vintage dac that never comes with usb of course.
So a converter is mandatory.
Thanks a lot again for the very precious advice.
Kind regards,
bg
Hi,Been using this sort as travel system for ages.
Sony Xperia Z Ultra or Sony Xperia Z2 Tablet as source, music (including HD and DSD) on 64GB transflash, with a small USB adapter, to easily copy music onto the TF cards. Right now I have six in use, with anything from Chillout and related to audiophile and classical. Streaming Spotify or Tidal also works fine. So does playing from a NAS.
Lest you think the Travel System is not "High End" enough, I (obviously) use my own USB DAC's designs and as headphones I have a pair of Kings Audio electrostatic headphones with a prototype battery powered amp for the electrostatics.
While quite portable, it does make for a very high end set-up. Critical to me in this whole thing is that using the (optional) stand for the Sony's, so I can play music while charging the Phone/Tablet. Not too many of these devices allow that, Sony do.
As I also carry a USB Hub (mainly as charging device - it can charge 4 devices each at full BC 1.2 spec 5V/1.5A) I can also charge the DAC while playing and indeed the headphone Amp as well. So when I pack up at the Hotel in the morning to catch the next flight, I have Phone/Tablet/DAC and Head-amp (and extra battery pack) each fully charged and ready for Transatlantic or shorter flight and going into the On-Board bag.
I do not find any drawbacks from just using "plain android", compared to so-called "dedicated streamers" (of course also running Android or other flavours of Linux and in the end Mobile Phone CPU's etc. - which may have something to do with the result) or fully fledged Computer systems.
Ciao T
At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to untolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?
Edits: 05/18/15
Hi Mr. Thorsten and thank you very much indeed for the very precious advice.Which Android version do you have on your devices ?
any app uploaded ?
any driver issue ?As i said i have 4.X (i have to check better the X this evening) with usb audio player pro app.
But the nice thing is that this app allows for the use of the usb option also with other SW players, like for instance VLC.
Now, if there were a Foobar version for Android this would become very interesting indeed.
I was impressed how the special effects with some movies were rendered. An impressive level of detail.
I have to try again this weekend ... if the media player is still working.
I bought and connected to it a cheap chinese usb stick that shortened.
I left my finger attached ... it was not working i touched it and got burnt very badly on one finger.
But i have still other nine ... not a big issue.
Thanks a lot again for the very valuable advice.
Have a nice day.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 05/18/15 05/18/15 05/18/15
Hi,
My Xperia Z Ultra is on KitKat 4.4.4, my Xperia Z2 is on Lollipop 5.0.2.
I use USB Audio Player Pro (pretty much the last version), but I often just use the Sony Walkman App which is build in if all I want is background music.
Other apps exist on my devices as well, Tidal and Spotify have their own (obviously).
I do not need any app or driver to get sound from Android App's via USB on either Device, it used to be a problem on the Z Ultra (always worked on the Z2). I think one of the recent Firmware updates on Z Ultra fixed it.
Ciao T
At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to untolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?
Thanks a lot again.
I will go on with the test then ...
maybe i have found a decent digital source for little cash.
Kind regards.
Kind regards,
bg
I want to try this too.
USB Player Pro out to good USB DAC. You can use onboard memory for the music files, or even stream from a network location...
First reaction around here was "can't possible be good, too much jitter...".
I say hearing is believing... want to try...
Cheers,
Presto
Hi and Thanks for the reply
i did it and it worked with a Gustard u12 usb to spdif converter.
But problem is that what works for me for serious listener could not work at all. I do not have an high rez playback system for sure.
But all this discussion about Linux or slimmed OSs ... in the end Android is both, it comes from Linux and it is quite slimmed down judging on the fact that does not require a lot of resources to run.
Usually media players have very limited HW.
The player SW is an issue ... i do not know if a Foobar for Android exists.
Kind regards,
bg
USB might be a problem.
Android 4 doesn't support USB audio hence you are "forced" to use a media player that does.
Android 5 is said to support USB audio class 1 (24/96 max)
Latency is not a problem as far as playback is concerned. It is by design a delay, troublesome when recording but not when doing playback.
The Well Tempered Computer
Hi and thanks a lot for the valuable reply.
Good to know about the latency being an issue only for recording.
I am very ignorant and discovering things every day.
I uploaded the USB AUDIO PLAYER PRO app and when i connect a usb audio device there is a message if i want to use it as default device or something like that.
I click yes and then i play the audio files with VLC player.
I was impressed by the quality of audio even with movies ... the effects were extremely clear and detailed ... you know that kind of sound relaxed and still extremely clean and detailed. Very very good.In general i have been thinking a lot about OS in particular.
For me an OS able to run properly also with limited HW resources is the way .... it can be only better with a more powerful pc.
I am planning to do some more serious listening the next weekend.
I will send the signal from a Hi Media q5 to a Gustard U12 and then to a dac and listen.
Thanks again for the very valuable advice about latency. Very very important and i was confusing things.
I am more confident now.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 05/18/15
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