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Hi !
to be honest i have always heard more noise than real music from my pc.
Yesterday as i had a SBT left unused in a corner i tried it as a spdif source to the dac.
What a change ! i started to hear music like never before using the pc.
And the dac sounded quite decent.
So i think i have narrowed down the problem. It is the spdif signal coming from the pc source.
And i thought it were easy ...
However ... then i started trying out some cheap usb to spdif converters i had at hand.
Again ... more noise than music but there were remarkable differences from one to another. Quite different noises let's say.I am sure that keeping all other things unchanged a better USB TO SPDIF converter could provide a more musical sound and transform my pc from a noise generator to a music machine. I am sure of this.
To end the question.
Are you aware/using a not very expensive usb to spidf converter that tested with different pc sources has been consistently ok ?
I would like also to understand the price threshold that separates "toys" from good unit.
But i would be willing to make a sacrifice because i am sure this converter is key to good sound in a pc set-up.
Even very cheap would be fine of course.
Thanks a lot indeed.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 05/12/15 05/12/15 05/12/15Follow Ups:
I've been wondering about this in a different context. I have an audiophile, outofdate AV processor: B&K 202. It was around $2000 new, and probably has a good DAC. The only digital inputs are optical, and coax.
How can I digitally transmit music from my Mac to my receiver?
Hi ! i am sorry but i do not have a clue. I am everything but an expert.
But if you open a specific thread here is full of great Mac experts indeed. They will be able to answer all your question.
I can only say that you could try a usb to spdif or optical converter compatible with your Mac.
I am on win 7 so i do not know if the converters i am using work also with your pc.
If you do not get answer here i suggest you to open a thread with your question.
Kind regards,
bg
Relatively inexpensive but high quality.
Just my 10 cents!
Hi thanks a lot for the kind advice.
Actually i am using just that ... i was just too embarassed to say.
Seriously, do you think it is a good piece ?
I have been a little let down when i discovered that it does not provide power isolation from the pc , a must for any usb dac/converter, i think.
This is a little trivial design flaw. They could have easily found somewhere inside a +5VDC line i guess.
But i am waiting for an usb isolator, that should not work with high rez streams but ok with redbook that is what i use normally.
Another thing that i do not like is the absence of a mains filter before the toroidal.
Toroidals are notorious to let through all the garbage from the mains (i.e. RF/HF noise, so harmful for digital units sound) at the point that i wonder why they are so common in digital units.
However do you use it standalone or with a usb power supply ?
With which PC/OS ? which cables ?
I could change my mind on the device.
I am sure that usb to spdif conversion is key to good sound.
And i trust very much AES/EBU digital connection that the U12 sports and also my dac.
I am using a Canare cable that i find very very good and cheap.
I am even tempted to use it for analog balanced connections because i read some advice from Belden tech department. And from respected mastering engineers also.
Obviously ANY advice about how to get the most out of the Gustard would be much appreciated and welcome.
Thanks a lot.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 05/16/15 05/16/15 05/16/15 05/16/15 05/16/15 05/16/15
Im using a split usb cable and a separate 5v supply into the Gustard and antivibration pods from ebay.
Seems sensitive to usb cables so a better cable helps.There is a very long thread over at Head-fi about Gustard:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip/1530
Good luck!
Edits: 05/17/15
Hi and thanks a lot for the valuable adviceMay i ask you which split cable are you using ?
The usb port on the Gustard uses the power from the pc (not nice)
I understand that also data lines can carry noise ... but their isolation is more complicated i guess.
Another thing that i do not like is the absence of a RF filter on the mains. Best units have some sort of filter.
However a very interesting unit also considering its price that with some more attention could have been even better.
I just hope that they will stop using toroids in digital equipments.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 05/18/15
My system is listed here:
http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/8490.html
Hi and yes i read that. I did not know Paul Pang cables.
I found now the web site in the link. Great products.
So isolation is important and the stock U12 benefit from some special accessories.
Thanks a lot again.
Kind regards,
bg
Upgrade to the Teradak power supply from EBAY
Defeat the screen on the Squeezebox
Upgrade to USB output, compare the USB out with the SPDIF out.
So much less hassle than trying to make your noisy PC into a music transport....
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Hi and thanks for the very valuable advice.
I will keep both, and the SBT for the serious listening.
But i would like to improve the playback from the pc as well
But i think that i am quite close to achieve maybe not the same sound i have with the SBT but decent enough.
The converter is fundamental to isolate the noisy pc and to clock the signal.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 05/13/15
The converter is fundamental to isolate the noisy pc and to clock the signal.
Is it?
Does every USB to SPDIF converter galvanic isolate the DAC from the PC?
It has to clock (it is SPDIF out). Any clue about the quality of this clocking?
The Well Tempered Computer
Hi i was mentioning what i understand a good converter should provide:
1) isolation from the pc power (i.e. it must have an independent low noise power supply)
2) a spdif signal with a stable clock.
For point 1) that can also be achieved cheaply with a usb power supply and a suitable cable, like the Teradak U9 i have.
Point 2) is much more tricky.
Only expensive units seem to satisfy point 2).
It is like the old discussion about good and bad transports.
The good ones were rare and expensive, with some cheap exception like some particular dvd players or br players.
I am looking for an exception among converters.
I think also another thing. A very good converter is good independently from the "feed" quality.
Just a decent pc shoud be enough for very good sound.
I do not have the evidence because no one would ever mate a 2-3000 USD converter with a 200 USD pc.
Maybe the opposite ?
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 05/13/15
1) isolation from the pc power (i.e. it must have an independent low noise power supply)
What about the data lines?
http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2015/05/measurements-corning-usb-3-optical.html
2) a spdif signal with a stable clock.
A DAC with a async USB receiver does the clocking. No need to rely on external clocking (SPDIF)
The Well Tempered Computer
Hi and thanks for the advice
I did not think about data lines actually
You mean that they can carry noise ? that is bad indeed
I wonder what people use as standard solution for this issue
Thanks for the recommendation if the usb optical cable
I see some opinions non 100% positive ... maybe it depends on the actual set-up ?Yes in case of usb dac is done in the dac and this i agree is very good
Mainly i looked at the usb to spdif converter solution with the aim to try some vintage dacs that do not have usb input.
Let's say that a good usb to spdif converter frees the hands.
For instance i have a friend with an old California Audio Labs Alpha tube dac that he is willing to sell me.
I have always appreciated its nice sound when i listened to it.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 05/13/15
I settled on the M2tech Hiface two: cause it's cheap and I'm getting out of the "computer as transport."
The other is the very expensive, - but great Audiophileo II. In my system it absolutely shattered the HiFace, - but needs an USB cable.
And the other is the Wyred4Sound uLink, - that one was in between the two, in my system. YMMV.... etc etc....
Cheers,
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Thanks a lot for the recommendation.
I think i will set on the cheap level and use the SBT for more serious listenings.
However where nice the Audiophileo II. Beautiful object indeed.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
d
Edits: 07/06/15
Hi and thanks but what is "balanced power" ?
i do not know. Thanks.
Kind regards,
bg
Why go with a converter? Just drive your content via USB2 or USB3 to your dac. On the other hand, if your dac doesn't accept USB you will be stuck with S/PDIF and hence, a converter or are you totally outdated and drive your s/pdif dac via a s/pdif computer output? If that is the case I suggest you upgrade.Anyhow, this whole computer transport genre is an art form in and of itself. You should be good right off the bat now that you have an outboard dac. After that you can up the ante by numerous things the same as you would any high-end rig. Personally I like clean power, fancy power cords and good software players.
Edits: 05/13/15 05/13/15
Hi and thanks for the helpful reply
actually thinking about it a little more i think you are quite right
The idea was to be free to use some vintage dac i could find around.
Sometimes they pop up in the 2nd market. Something multibit i mean.
I see that you have a Bifrost.
It is 520 USD but quite more with shipping and custom to EU i am afraid.
I read that is a very good unit by the way.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
I also have respect for older multibit dacs being that I occasionally use an EAD 7000III. Yet, it's an emi spitting machine that needs some love to sound it's best. As for the Bifrost, though it's a first gen, I used it mainly because it's got kernal streaming ability from it's USB drivers. A must have in order to get the most out of Jplay software imho. Later gen C-media drivers on the bifrost do not have this option. Plus, the bifrost outputs two volts and it's not a variable output/volume control dac. Something that I tend to like.
I don't know about you but my rig is as quiet as it was when it had a standard cd tranport. Noise isn't an issue with my computer transport. Of course, power conditioning, both passive and active, help a lot.
Hi and thanks again for the very helpful advice
I do not have big noise issues.
I just compared the pc sound vs. SBT and clearly the SBT is superior as transport, let's say. Both with spdif connection to the dac.
I will check the usb dac option anyway.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 05/13/15
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