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Linux seems to be getting really close to being desktop ready, but one area that it still seems to be lagging way behind Windows is audio quality. I have tried many players and some are better than others, but all are light years away from Foobar 2000 with wasapi in Windows 8.
Are there other sound systems, settings, etc. I can try to close the gap or is it a lost cause at this time?
I am using OpenSuse 13.2 and have a usb dac.
Tried asking on Linux forums, but got mostly Windows sucks, sounds fine to me, you need to upgrade xyz, etc.
Follow Ups:
Gang,
Look nobody is paying these people. Linux was not made to be free. Nobody is going to spend limitless amounts of time tweaking stuff for people to run off and use it and resell it as theirs.
Look how many Audio servers use code and do not sell it.
Sure Fedora is a free os. But is everything else they are using to make it a server free? Absolutely not. If these people don't get paid they are not going to continue doing this stuff.
Thanks,
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin
these guys seem ok with open source linux development
http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/
My thoughts exactly. I used to develop ROM for better audio quality on Linux and now Android which is Linux-based as well. Some people really turned me down to keep on improving audio quality on Linux for free. At some point, I stopped updating it and keep it only for personal mods then sell with with my hardware mods on other devices.
It's ironic but people who pay are more appreciated and welcomed than people who don't.
not if you don't know what you are doing.
Having been a long time Mac user in my main system, I have put together a modest laptop based system running Lubuntu for heaphone listening. I use Deadbeef and it sounds very good indeed with my USB dac. NO DRIVERS! Better sound than any Windows configs I tried with Foobar.It is a bit of a pain to setup but no more so than trying to tweak a windows system to work properly. And with a low memory footprint of under 300k even my 2 GB limited laptop serves me well.
Not quite as transparent as the mac but very enjoyable.
Edits: 05/08/15
When you ask your question, and use the term "linux Audio"
Do you necessarily mean the Linux OS & GUI that is uniquely and only applicable on a traditional multi-purpose PC?
You're not talking about the version of Linux on a Aurilic Aries for example, correct?
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
I would say no!
http://www.gameaudio101.com
My special purpose Linux audio installations sound better then any Windows system I had in front of me. And that's since 2008.
As with all systems it requires some work to get the best out of it.
Windows 8.1 won't support samplerates higher then 96kHz in 2015 over USB.
You should rather ask the question, if there's any hope for Windows audio.
Good luck.
Although I happily use AudioLinux, you should also ask yourself how many DACs are supported under Linux for DSD native or for DSD256.
You should ask yourself how many users use native DSD or DSD256. --- 0.001% or less??I havn't looked into DSD support. I read you can run DSD512 on a e.g. iFi Micro iDSD under Linux.
I know that Daphile, Vortexbox, Squeeze on Arch are supporting DSD/DoP. I also read that Volumio supports native DSD and DoP.
If it requires a proprietary driver for a DAC to run these formats is a different story.
The vast majority of manufacturers still do not officially support
Linux. They do claim "class compliancy".Considering > 1 Billion Android (Unix/Linux) phones out there, with a market share of > 75%. It's a shame that many manufacturers still do not focus and commit to Linux Audio support.
A lack of Linux/feature support is usually not a Linux issue. It's a manufacturer issue. I'd stay away from manufacturers, who wouldn't commit to Windows, OSX/iOS and Linux/Android in 2015.
Edits: 05/06/15 05/06/15
"Windows 8.1 won't support samplerates higher then 96kHz in 2015 over USB."
Is this a joke?
Klaus is referring to the fact the Windows doesn't support USB Audio 2. It needs a driver for the DAC to play over 96kHz.
Hi Steve,
Yes I know that... :) We all do, but his representation not an accurate representation of what people are doing with Windows. Nobody really cares about the native capabilities of windows at this point as there are appropriate drivers for all the popular interfaces. IMO Windows is by far the best sounding OS platform. People need to try the new JPlay, and if they are bit more adventurous, Bug Head Emperor which is really amazing...
Regards
Bob
"his representation not an accurate representation of what people are doing with Windows"
No, but it IS and accurate representation OF Windows as an operating system.
I'm sure you guys could even argue about whether a driver sounded better than Windows OS at 96kHz.
By the way, would it?
It is not a good representation. I think the problem is people do not understand what a driver really is and how it interfaces with the operating system. The thought that having built-in compatibility is an advantage is not necessarily true. It can actually be a disadvantage IMO. Having to use drivers to access an operating system is perfectly fine, in fact probably better in some ways as the creator of the interface can write necessary code to really make their device were properly. Drivers do not have sound, and do not affect the sound. Maybe people who think this way do not really understand the process.
"Drivers do not have sound, and do not affect the sound. Maybe people who think this way do not really understand the process."
good one. At least you are here to set us all straight.
"good one. At least you are here to set us all straight."
Yup, I feel better already. I've got a whole mental locker of such tawdry aphorisms including such golden oldies as Nixon assuring me that "your president is not a crook". They just make life more...more... interesting?
Rick
why don't they make the O/S and player software out of the same code used for drivers, then it would all sound the same and we could relax and listen to music.
http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/
Do you realy have to be joining the two stooges? Beneath you IMO...I am sorry that you misunderstood what I was saying. Of course as Tony said anything "CAN" have an effect on sound.
The function of a driver is to interface with the OS and in that regard it is not there to alter sound.
Do you have different sounding drivers for the interface you use?
Some like XMOS may have settings for buffers etc...
The comments regarding Windows not having built in support is pretty useless IMO.
Edits: 05/09/15
until you hear music played without a driver you won't know how much it affects the sound.
I've tried the windows native driver for 16/44.1, didn't sound that good.
I've read numerous reports where people say this or that driver sounds better or worse.
My problem with drivers is that for usb attached devices the driver has to interface with the client for every buffer loaded meaning multiple user to kernel mode switches. If people were serious about sound quality the driver would just get passed the pointers to preloaded ram and just render the music in kernel mode. MS does this with waveRT, but that's just for PCIE cards.
http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/
Do you have different sounding drivers for the interface you use?
Blow the dust off a suitable device and software then compare the results when using the ASIO4ALL and AQVOX USB drivers, hardware identical.
Night and day? Well, certainly coffee break and half past four.
D
" Drivers do not have sound, and do not affect the sound."
There are many possible ways that drivers can affect the sound, from the subtle to the gross. Drivers are part of the software that is active while music is playing, in this regard they are no different than player software, or certain parts of the operating system involved with scheduling, context switching, memory management and file I/O, etc...
The nice thing about Linux is that if you don't like a driver you can write your own. (That is, if you can find sufficient hardware documentation, which may be proprietary or are a sufficiently clever experimenter.)
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
That the guys who are wetting their pants over Bug Head Emperor (VERY cool name, BTW!) are using top of the line gear like $400/pr. Polk monitors being driven by 50 watts/ch. Onkyo receivers and $500 laptop servers???
GMAFB.....
-RW-
Gosh, I'm one of those guys that's wetting his pants over Infinity Player SQ (Bughead). My speakers are Focal Grand Utopia BEs. They were a bit more than $400/pr as I remember . . .
The rest of my rig and music computer servers are of similar quality.
The player is very good. It is the best I've heard on my system. Mr. Yokota Hiroyuki, the author, seems to have a great understanding of computer audio.
The manual that is included with the software is full of audio tips. Unfortunately for now, the manual is in Japanese.
Try it. It's free. Nothing to lose . . .
William
I don't know how you came up with that one... But I think you are off base.
He's looking at this:
That page is not working. People should go to FaceBook.
It's working here Bob.
Funny I used all browsers and it was blocked. Must be my ISP as I was able to get it with the TOR browser.
That is not what he uses. He has a high end headphone system. All the other people that have commented also have proper systems. The thread on JPlay is a good indication. Phil who created Audiophile Optimizer also mentioned how good Bug Head is.
I know! Many if not most users are using high end systems. Ignore the nonsense.
All of this talk about operating systems is a little silly.
I do not understand this "concern" about drivers. What is wrong with a good driver like thesycon? Nothing I can hear.
I would try/use LINUX if there was a good player but there is not.
I find it interesting that there was no player mentioned for this better than any WINDOWS LINUX setup.
Mystery works better for some people than others.
No question the new JPlay properly implemented (dedicated and optimized WINDOWS install) sounds damned good. Can something be better? Well, I sure as hell hope so.
I will wait patiently for it to arrive.
I agree. I just purchased a new Windows computer. Haven't tried Bug Head Emperor yet.
Edits: 05/06/15
"I agree. I just purchased a new Windows computer."
Cool! :)
"Haven't tried Bug Head Emperor yet."
You should it is really excellent! It is different and I am amazed by what the author Hiroyuki Yokota had done. I have done some latency testing and with a low power ATOM CPU this software still maintains low latency results even with the CPU hitting 90% plus!!! This is not normal as with everything else latency goes through the roof well before this. Other software will just choke and totally stop.
It uses ASIO, a bit of a learning curve and a basic interface, but it sounds great. It also can be used with JPlay.
There is a good thread on JPlay about it.
Facebook...
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bug-head-technology/221354151338856?sk=info&tab=page_owners
Thanks Bob. My problem is that I have too many things to try and not enough hours in the day.
I hear that!
Has anything changed lately? As far as I recall, people needed the Thesycon USB driver to get higher samplerates going.
Perhaps I mixed things up.
No UAC2 support and it looks like it is not going to make it to Win10 either
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-insider_devices/windows-support-for-usb-audio-20/0d633b9f-3193-4c63-8654-fb10b3614a04
Much to my surprise Win10 will support FLAC and MKV
The Well Tempered Computer
You are correct.
Thx for confirming. I'm not following up Windows audio developments that closely.
Apparently people are impressed by the new version of JPlay, wonder how it would rate against linux. Some people still think it's a con.
http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/
JPlay is no con. I am listening to it now on my new computer. It makes a very positive contribution to the sound. Fidelizer Pro is used as well.Good stuff.
Edits: 05/07/15
Most music players that come pre-packaged with Linux distros (like Banshee or Rhythmbox) route the audio signal through Pulse Audio, which is the equivalent of Windows mixer. To get the best performance out of Linux, you need to use playback software that lets you bypass Pulse Audio (just like using WASAPI or ASIO in Windows to bypass Windows mixer).A good discussion of how to do it is in the post linked below, starting with post #3:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/561961/bit-perfect-audio-from-linux
Edits: 05/05/15
This is not quite right (anymore).
Pulseaudio elevates the audio thread and makes sure that the rest of the system won't interfere with the audio stream.
Basically Pulseaudio does what so called "audiophile players" do. It does it on a system layer that's very close to the kernel. The PA configuration can be heavily tweaked.
There is an issue that comes with all system mixers and that's the resampling. Every mixer needs to resample to a common samplerate to be able to handle streams from different sources.
At this point you can configure your samplerate of choice with Pulseaudio.
This way you can stay bitperfect on your favourite samplerate.
You can even use high quality resampling algorithms with Pulseaudio.
Afaik you can't do that under Windows.
Fact is. Removing Pulseaudio from your system, usually leaves you with a (to a certain extent) broken system.
On my desktop Ubuntu I don't have any issues with Pulseaudio. My Desktop Linux sounds as good as my tweaked Windows 8.1.
On my Squeeze on Arch (SOA) installations, as well as Volumio and Rune - all of them are single purpose installations - you won't find Pulseaudio.
"Fact is. Removing Pulseaudio from your system, usually leaves you with a (to a certain extent) broken system."
No, it certainly does not. There are Ubuntu variants - Lubuntu comes to mind - that don't ship with Pulseaudio by default. Lubuntu is far from "broken".
Neither do I suggest that someone remove Pulseaudio. Rather, following the instructions in the link simply allow the playback software to bypass Pulseaudio to avoid downsampling during playback in a way that makes setting up playback easier than digging into text files.
I too run Lubuntu and do not use Pulse. Pulse did not sound as good to my ears as ASIO with another Linux variant and my USB dac. Nothing about not using Pulse with Lubuntu causes my system to be broken from my point of view.
Edits: 05/08/15
Hi Jaydacus,
I agree.
Each and every OS, driver, firmware, software, etc has it's own specific sonic finger print.
For instance: every time when Lynx Studio Technology came out with an upgrade for there AES16 PCI card, the damn thing sounded somewhat different. Same for drivers or OS-es. Windows finally 'sounds' really good since they released Windows 8.
When I still used a heavily moded ESI juli@ card (digital part only) I tried all kinds of linux distro's and varieties.
Daphile (http://www.daphile.com) sounds very good too my ears, has a good user interface and it is not all that hard too get up and running.
Also most puppy linux distro's sound good too my ears. You my know: MPD-pup.
Tiny Core Linux with Deadbeef player also sounds good, but it is really user UN-friendly and a real PITA too get up and running
cMP PC win8.1 > Weiss AF1 Firewire interface > Vovox Link Direct SD > Lavry Black DA10 > Vovox Sonorus Direct S > Klein & Hummel O300
You may want to try HQPlayer. Running the client from a linux machine (Ubuntu laptop) and the server runs on a lightweight Debian install (Beaglebone Black). Sounds very good to my ears and plenty of options in the software to fiddle around with for those that want to.
As far as I know, out of the box all OS like Win, OSX, Linux, Android works the same.
They are built with multiple audio streams in mind.
Hence they run at a fixed sample rate and will up/down sample anything different.
Win always convert any audio to float and back to integer and dither.
OSX core audio does the same.
Probably ALSA on Linux applies the same trick.
Maybe you can bypass this in Linux too but I can't advise you as my Linux is dated and feeble.
Try the link below.
The Well Tempered Computer
I am using the Auralic Aries to stream Tidal and music from my computer. This device uses a Linux operating system and sounds really really good
Alan
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