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In Reply to: RE: The -90 dB argument and the "H" word. posted by Tony Lauck on April 06, 2015 at 11:38:26
So you are telling me you can identify, by merely listening, which tracks have the brass band in them on the Audio Diffmaker Listeners' Challenge? Cool! Could you post your answer key for us less blessed listeners?
And sorry, but I don't recognize you as a certifying authority for who is or is not allowed to comment on any issues, not just the one currently under discussion.
JE
Follow Ups:
I can not tell you anything about a test that I haven't taken. I don't believe in tests as a means of convincing skeptics. It is too easy to rig tests to prove whatever the experimenter wants to prove. I also know that even were I to pass such a test, then some of the "objectivists" would find something wrong with the test or the way I took it. Worse, if these objections could be removed, then the next step would be for them to accuse me of cheating. I have no interest in going down this path, lacking the requisite patience and tolerance of toxic personalities.
I do not believe in third party authorities. We must each be responsible for our own beliefs. Following this logic, I would disrespect anyone who were to accept me as their authority. They should be making their own determination, using their God given senses and God given mind.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
"I can not tell you anything about a test that I haven't taken."
The listeners' challenge is not a test, but a demonstration. The premise is simple: you are presented with two tracks of a choir singing Brahms' Lullaby. Mixed into one of the tracks is a brass band playing a Sousa march. The challenge is to choose which track has the brass band in it. Now if flipped bits ~ -130db down are audible, it should be a doddle to hear an entire brass band. However, it's not as easy as you might think!
The diffmaker software and the .dyf files are free to download. No registration is required to grab them. The software does not tamper with the running of your PC. You can use the software in the privacy of your own home. No one need ever know. If you ever did try the challenge then you might better understand my confusion over claims that tiny changes in playback result in huge perceived differences.
JE
I have a carefully calibrated playback chain that I use for all critical listening. I am set up for file formats that are supported by DBPoweramp. I am not about to install real time software that I have not vetted. Furthermore, I see no point in such demonstrations. It is possible to construct demonstrations that will make obvious or hide "the gorilla".
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Sorry I didn't reply sooner. I got caught up in trying to get JPlay to work and didn't post for a bit.
"I have a carefully calibrated playback chain that I use for all critical listening. I am set up for file formats that are supported by DBPoweramp. I am not about to install real time software that I have not vetted."
We're not talking about "critical listening" here, but simply playing back some 15 second or so files. Surely you have some old laptop and ear buds laying around that you could use for this purpose?
"Furthermore, I see no point in such demonstrations. It is possible to construct demonstrations that will make obvious or hide "the gorilla"."
OK, now you're playing both sides of the street. You say that changes -130db down are obvious, but that the folks at Liberty Instruments are somehow "hiding the gorilla?" If you can hear 130db into a mix, how on earth are they going to do that? Besides, the entire point of the diffmaker is to reveal the differences, if any, between the two files being compared. Sure enough, when you tell diffmaker to extract the differences, the brass band is right there for all to hear.
JE
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