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In Reply to: RE: If "the goal was to have a working Desktop system" - that means.... posted by fmak on February 17, 2015 at 08:42:45
W8.1 sounded very good once it was optimized.
No question. It just took me quite an effort to get there.
Obviously it can even be done better. For me it was good enough
after 3 days.
That level of performance I achieved with Ubuntu much earlier.
By default Ubuntu runs much less processes then Windows.
That's what you guy achieve when running Windows Server or Windows Minimal.
Cheers
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and bells and whistle player software.
It's the rigidity of HW/SW platform, and more importantly, rigidity (to put it mildly) of the brains of true followers, that put them in a handicapped position, with no chance to get ahead.
Edits: 02/17/15
Agree, but workout how much power is consumed and how much ram is actually used.
If you've paid any attention to the various Mac posts you would have read several times that 4GB is more than sufficient on Mac (and the default minimum they come with these days).
8GB is what I would consider to be the sweet spot IF the user chooses to use Memory Play which is offered in many players.
I have 16GB because when I'm not playing music I reconfigure my Mac for other tasks like video transcoding.
This remark, not based on reasoning, is indicative of the character of your posts here.
There is no reason, for any of us who want to discuss issues, to be jealous of anyone or anything.
Fact. When inmates buy Apple computers, they are buying pieces of very expensive glass staircases all over the world. And they are subsidising huge queues of people outsdie Apple Stores buying products for grey export. You see them in London and all over the World. It's ok, but it is why there is a huge cost premium on MACs.
Fact. When inmates buy Apple computers, they are buying pieces of very expensive glass staircases all over the world. And they are subsidising huge queues of people outsdie Apple Stores buying products for grey export. You see them in London and all over the World. It's ok, but it is why there is a huge cost premium on MACs.Not true. People are happy to pay a premium for a premium product with superior support. And that is why Apple can afford to have beautiful stores all over the world in the first place, while PC makers struggle to stay in business. That's pretty clear based on how well Apple is doing compared to others. True fact, not wild speculation.
Fact. When inmates buy a PC computer from a manufacturers, they are buying the most cheaply built hardware at the bottom of the barrel with low prices even further subsidized by the crapware vendors around the world who PAY the PC manufacturer to allow their unwanted and annoying software to be pre-installed on the brand new computer. That's OK to some and they put up with it. The buyer is left to deal with it.
Like it or not, those are the facts.
Edits: 02/20/15
... of $130 16Gb memory upgrade for MAC Mini. Especially in the context of audiophile audio system.
Must be Apple thing - to be jealous of anything and everything, regardless of how stupid that looks and sounds. Driving force behind the sales, no doubt.
Audiophile system?
Large PS next to DAC and Computer on top of each other?
i7 2.6G CPU consuming 11W only when working a full whack or just idling?
A resolving system from which no change in sound quality can be detected when it is not playing music or when system is throttled for low power consumption?
Your Post - RE: 16G of RAM is not the biggest problem.... Agree, but workout how much power is consumed and how much ram is actually used.
I set you straight on your comment above. My i7 Quad-Core 16GB Mac Mini consumes a whopping 11-Watts while playing music which I'm willing to bet is much less than your optimized music PC. I even showed you the power supply voltage and current draw.
You obviously lack any understanding of computers and electronics as you continue to divert the conversation since it's obvious that you dug a hole too deep for you to escape. You do this quite often, foot in the mouth with no intelligible or intelligent response.
So, how much power does your optimized music PC consume while playing music?
I doubt I'll get any intelligent response as I've already asked you this question several times.
You do this quite often, foot in the mouth with no intelligible or intelligent response.
That's as may be but, sadly, so do you.
So, how much power does your optimized music PC consume while playing music?
Does one "consume" power? Whatever, for the record, my "optimized" PC draws six watts. That said, though I don't think it's worth fighting over, fmak eschews the term "optimized". IOW, you are mis-representing him. See above.
D
I don't care how much power YOUR PC draws because you're not the one who suggested that my i7 quad-core Mac Mini with 16GB is wasteful. I countered that a mere 11-watts while playing music is very reasonable and asked how much power his music PC draws. How was that misrepresenting him?Of course he suddenly went off topic with personal attacks and never replied to my request with any meaningful response because he either has no clue, or more likely because he knows very well that his music PC uses significantly more power. Caught again. Why else would he have spec'd a 210-watt after market linear power supply for it?
Of course the Mac Mini automatically throttles down it's clock frequency to save energy when speed is not necessary - as will most modern PCs that are not broken. That was never in question. Besides, there is no proof positive whatsoever that leaving this capability enabled is detrimental to sound quality. This exists only in theory and only in the minds of extreme tweakers who look down on others who choose not to waste time crippling their computers for questionable sonic benefit.
It amazes me how a couple die hard tweak maniacs go to great lengths to defend a buddy when he is again proven to be flat out wrong.
Edits: 02/20/15
... are most likely a result of enabled Intel energy-saving features. Which, as anyone who dabbled in "random, haphazard tweaks" would know, is detrimental to sound quality. As in, it's one of the first things you would need to disable, when you start your random, haphazard tweaking.
But, of course, that can't possibly apply to fabulous sounding stock Apple computers, and their even more fabulous, albeit somewhat lazy and hard of hearing, owners.
This brings up the issue of why a Mac with an i7 and 16G Ram are needed to play music? My 4VA Pipo X7 (7in x 5in) with 2G Ram does it well enough.
If throttled cpu gives 'perfect' result, then money is being wasted on funding Apple to put glass staircases all over the world!
No wonder he can't hear differences that are obvious to most of us.
.... to never learn, never even make an attempt to, and better yet - be unable to, in principle.
So now we are debating how much power we draw! One of the more important things in life for sure...
I didn't bring it up, fmak did. When I posted my power draw and memory usage he went off topic as usual and never replied in a meaningful way. If you're going to make a claim that does not appear to be true, at least try to back it up when asked rather then going off topic with personal attacks.So very typical of him.
Edits: 02/20/15 02/20/15
The issue isn't the waste of power. One way or other the power ends up as heat. Where I live at this time of your the extra heat can be quite pleasant. The issue is the power that creates unwanted electrical noise on its way to becoming heat. Almost all the steps that reduce power consumption also reduce the creation of unwanted electrical noise.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Edits: 02/20/15
''Almost all the steps that reduce power consumption also reduce the creation of unwanted electrical noise.''and many of the steps increase latency, some by a very large margin. And 16G Ram increases power consumption and noise in critical areas of a computer where it is not needed for audio reproduction.
You have no idea and only speculate on noise and its effects erroneously.
How does placing a dac and a computer on top of each other, alongside a large EM generator of a big power supply reduce 'unwanted' noise thru enabling power saving firmware and software?
Edits: 02/20/15
Reducing computer power consumption by underclocking and undervolting is a known technique for measuring processor consumption and has been used successfully for many people to improve playback quality.
Power consumption and latency are both proxy metrics for sound quality, not necessarily causative factors (depending on the playbackchain). There is a big difference between power consumption and latency, however. Power consumption is very easily measured by readily available equipment that can be used without specialized tools or knowledge. Latency is intrinsically difficult to measure, being a difference in time. In addition there are a huge number of events (specific occurrences in terms of specific places and times) that can be differenced when measuring latency. Some of these may be inaccessible, while others need some specialized tools. Thus it makes no sense to even talk about latency in the context of computer audio without being specific as to what is being measured, where and how. (And probably why as well.)
When I listen to my record library the latency that I experience is measured in multiple trillions of microseconds.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
And 16G Ram increases power consumption and noise in critical areas of a computer where it is not needed for audio reproduction.And when I showed you that my Mini draws a mere 11-watts with 16GB of memory while playing music, you went off on personal attacks instead of replying to my question asking you how much power your music PC draws and why you spec'd a 210-watt linear power supply for it. Must be a power hungry & noisy PC!
How does placing a dac and a computer on top of each other, alongside a large EM generator of a big power supply reduce 'unwanted' noise thru enabling power saving firmware and software?
That setup was not about noise or sound quality. As I explained to you several times, it was a 'functional test' after installing a filter and linear power supply. A preliminary test if you will to determine that the installation was successful. It was not a 'listening test'. Do you have a comprehension problem?
Edits: 02/20/15 02/20/15 02/21/15
Why post something that does not pertain to audio?.
We all know that the MAC functions.
I regard your post with pictures as being deliberately designed for a purpose best known to yourself and perhaps aimed at discrediting inmates not holding your views.
Unlike yourself, in the interest of complete transparency I show details of my equipment setup, test setup, and measurement methods so people know and can see firsthand what is being done.My photos have nothing to do with "discrediting inmates not holding my views" but they often reinforce the discrediting of those who are flat out wrong.
Do you still not get it?
Edits: 02/21/15
of my ignorance of setting up audio equipment.'' period
If you want to be transparent about a 'function' test, then you would have run the MAC with Orthos (or is equivalent) for one hour, having disabled speed stepping, and tell us what the power consumption is during the test, what the cpu temperatures are, and what the fan speeds are.
How much power does your music PC draw while playing music? I've already been completely transparent about mine. Again, it draws 11-watts while playing music , which is what counts.And your PC?
Edits: 02/21/15 02/21/15
Change the subject whenever it gets awkward and indefensible!!!
The topic has not been changed. You questioned the Mac Mini's power consumption several posts ago. I replied. I asked you several times how much your music PC draws yet you avoid the question. Why?
Guess, since you are so good at making things up.
Oh no! Did you break your DMM too? I'm sorry, I thought it was just your oscilloscope that was in for repairs.
Well lets see, since you spec'd a 210-watt ATX linear power supply for your music PC I know that it draws a huge amount more than the 11-watts that my Mac Mini draws while playing music.
Audirvana Plus can perform some optimization in OSX. The sound of the latest Pure Music and Audirvana Plus with OSX Yosemite is quite good.
Dealing with the computer 5V line noise on USB and isolating the computer's AC and HD's AC with an excellent filter like the Shunyata DPC-6 make a very big difference.
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