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In Reply to: RE: Windows 8.1 - An everyday setup posted by SBGK on January 23, 2015 at 04:58:25
SBGK
It's been a long time...
Do you have any Foobar tweaks in the pocket??
Different topic:
Q: Did you also apply your optimizations to squeezelite for Linux?
THX
Follow Ups:
Hi Soundcheck,
No foobar settings apart from ks, memory play, buffers not too big and not too small.
The best player is my own, of course. I'll help you set it up if interested, files are loaded by copying to the clipboard, but it's there to show what a minimalist player sounds like, some people seem to like it.
I modified squeezelite and portaudio using the code tweaks I'd picked up along the way and it's reckoned to sound quite good, you might want to try that as it gives you lms on windows. Just set up lms and squeezelite and then replace the squeezelite and portaudio exe/dll. Again ks only.
Am thinking the way forward is to have a linux device with the player integrated into the driver so that once playback starts the driver just renders the data without any intervention from the client ie the driver just steps through the data in ram. This is based on the idea that it's the transition between user and kernel that creates noise as well as copying of data.
Any ideas how that could be achieved if at all ? What distro is best/easiest ? Would also look to modify alsa in the kernel because doubt that is optimal. These options are not really feasible in windows.
http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/
Get your KS working; it should be possible with RME as I have used it in their soundcards and dac.
Set it to lowest possible buffers without SQ deterioration.
I managed.Had to turn bitrate to 32bit.
Did some A/B. WasapiEvent vs. KS. They are IMO not that far apart.
Something for the "Golden Ear Fraction". ;)First impression:
I still think Wasapi Event is giving me a slightly more clean
and detailed presentation. KS sounds a bit smoother - paintshopped - still very good though.
I can imagine on sightly critical/slightly flawed systems Wasapi
can perhaps sound a little edgy.I could live with either mode on my current "Desktop" setup.
Cheers
Edits: 01/23/15
In my systems they are, with KS consistently being more fluid and musical.
If you use RME, you should avoid doing anything they recommend such as adapting AES to SPDIF with incorrect impedance matching, and accepting that 1 nS jitter from their clocking is low jitter etc. You also need to pay attention to their dual ac/dc power supply configuration if that exists in your hardware. The cheap and poor extension cables they and others supply are also a SQ problem.
BTW.Did some more testing on KS vs. Wasapi-Event
I created two new key shortcuts in Foobar:
k = KS mode on output 1/2
w = wasapi-event on output 1/2Now I'm able to switch outputs on-the-fly during playback. That works
quite good. Perfect setup for A/B testing.After some more A/B tests I still hear slightly more details and more reverberation with Wasapi. Maybe I get fooled by added distortions. Who knows.
Cheers
Edits: 01/24/15
why aren't you using squeezelite/lms ?
http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/
As I said. It's my normal Desktop PC.
Foobar has been my choice for a reason.
It's very slim.
Well integrated into the Windows environment.
Well maintained.
It's very slim.
No hazzle with client/server/remote control stuff.
I need something different for benchmarking.
I get to know what FMAK is talking about all the time. ;)
The Squeeze stuff I prefer to run on my Linux platforms.
Cheers
""In my systems they are, with KS consistently being more fluid and musical.""
That doesn't contradict what I've been saying. I do seem to experience loss of detail.
"....RME...."
When I received the UCX and hooked it up first time last summer, I was about to send it back immediately. It sounded pretty average to me. However. I wanted to get my active speakers working. I gave it a 2nd chance.
I built a rather high quality DIY linear 12V supply (Thel).
Applied silver cabling and quality plugs, additional buffering and filtering and shortened the leads. All in all were talking about a
150$ value. Guess what happened! The device suddenly sounded !!really!! good.
It's embarrassing for a company like RME to come up with such an average PS for a 1000-1200€ device.
Most other manufacturers do it exactly the same way though.
Next I hooked up my USB filter. That one also cuts the 5V line. The well
described improvements caused by USB filters were experienced. Apparently I also played around with USB cables.
Bottom line. Who cares about 1ns or 1fs jitter. Most of this I consider marketing BS. How all this gets measured remains an open question and usually makes comparison impossible. I do believe that the sideeffects
by introducing low jitter clocks - such as better and separated regulators, improved shielding and isolation, buffering, board layout - contributes more to potential improvements then the actual clock.
Cheers
You may want to look into this.http://www.rme-audio.de/en_support_techinfo.php?page=content/support/en_support_techinfo_steadyclock
http://www.rme-audio.de/english/techinfo/lola_latec.htm
It seems RME is quite serious about jitter and clock stuff. I think you shouldn't under estimate the potentials of good reference clock. I feed word clock signal from masterclock with rubidium oscillator to my RME card it performed really live. Much better than any shiny connectors, cables and filter blocks out there.
Edits: 01/24/15
I'm not underestimating the effect of a good clock. I'm saying that it is difficult to nail the effects and origins properly down.
External clocks already loose half the benefit on the way towards the DAC device.
Usually these clocks are meant to sync several devices.
If an external clock improves your DAC performance, start questioning the quality of your DAC first.I listened to several master clocked installations. The effect were always the same. A rock solid "locked" presentation.
I consider the improvements neglectable in comparison to e.g. power supply and OS tuning at a fragment of cost.
And for sure I won't use a masterclock on my Desktop installation.
Cheers
Edits: 01/24/15
I hope you would check your RME gears about word clock input/output. There's a good reason why RME added that and how a few ultra highend gears have dedicated clock signal connection. Well, it's your opinion so I won't interfere with that.
of course it might be that wasapi is flawed, it certainly wasn't written with sound quality in mind. KS has more potential because it interacts directly with the driver and just need to pass pointers to memory instead of copying data to a buffer, unfortunately bits are bits developers stand in your way to audio nirvana and standard KS implementation is over complicated. KS also allows cacheing behaviour to be specified for the file and end device, again doesn't matter to bits are bits developers.
http://mqnplayer.blogspot.co.uk/
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