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In Reply to: RE: Cannot set up a Computer for audio - get a network streamer posted by Sprezza Tura on October 15, 2014 at 17:15:10
People use tablets with wi-fi to control streamers. They use them to control other things as well. If the streamer is dumb and depends upon some other computer for control then that computer may need to be controlled by wi-fi.
A streamer is just as much a computer as any other computer, according to the things that it can do to your audio equipment. If the streamer is in your audio room and/or connected to the rest of your audio stack it can degrade the sound. The test for this is to listen to an analog source with the streamer in various situations:
1. unplugged from AC and from preamp
2. plugged into AC but switched off and unplugged from preamp
3. plugged into AC and switched on, connected to file source, but unplugged from preamp,
etc.. Depending on what you hear, other tests will be appropriate.
The reason why I suggested using an analog source is because even an ordinary CD player contains a computer.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Follow Ups:
"If the streamer is dumb and depends upon some other computer for control then that computer may need to be controlled by wi-fi."
I have no idea what the above means.
My Mac Mini is on Ethernet. My streamer is on Ethernet. The tablet is on WiFi. Never the twain shall meet.
How do you control what music plays on your streamer and how do you start/pause/stop playback?
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
With the an iPad. Air. As long as your streamer and your NAS, or computer with files is attached to the network, even with just Ethernet, the control apps talk to your router and send the commands.My Mac Mini has WiFi deactivated. as does my streamer.
I am wondering how limited your knowledge of these products are.
I had the set up for years with a Squeezebox Touch. Never used WiFi to stream the files, but controlled playback with a phone.
Edits: 10/16/14
" but controlled playback with a phone. "
Yes, I know how components talk to each other and how the elements of computing can be distributed across a network. I've been doing that since before 1980.
The Touch has a control panel. That's what I meant by "smart". No need for it to talk to anything else except the server. Other devices don't work that way. For example the SOTM running Miksa's NAA software requires HQPlayer running on a PC to create playlists and start/stop/pause playback.
How is your iPad air connected to your streamer? Where is it physically located with respect to your audio stack?
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
I am still puzzled by your questions.The iPad air is NOT connected to my streamer. It stays 10 feet away at the listening chair.
It actually "talks" to MiniMstreamer,installed on my Mac Mini , 2 rooms away, which serves the files to streamer, via a router, 150 feet away from all my systems. EVERYTHING is hard wired. The only devices on WiFi in my house are iPads, and occasionally, laptops for work purposes.
I have the SOtM, and all my streamers set up for DLNA.
The point I have been trying to make, and others too, is that these headless solutions are by far the better way to go.
Perhaps this might help:
SELECTABLE OUTPUT MODES
Mode #1 - SqueezeLite Output Mode - This mode works with any Logitech Media Server (LMS) and compatible controllers. This output supports true gapless playback for FLAC, ALAC, WAV, and AIFF. When used with Vortexbox 2.3 you can output PCM and DoD via USB. When used with LMS on your computer or your NAS you can output PCM via USB.Mode #2 - AirPlay Output Mode - This is an AirPlay emulator that utilizes streams sent to it from a compatible player.
Mode #3 - MPD/DLNA Output Mode:
Mode #3a - DLNA Output Mode - This mode utilizes streams from DLNA servers and controllers. Playback has been enhanced and now uses MPD as the renderer. With JRiver, Linn Kinsky, Linn Kazoo, BubbleUPNP and AudioNet as controllers this mode supports true gapless playback for FLAC, ALAC, WAV, and AIFF. DSD/DoP output is supported via USB if your server supports DoP streaming.
Mode #3b - MPD Output Mode - This mode is intended to work with a Vortexbox based music server (Sonore, SOtM, W4S, and Vortexbox) on the home network. When this mode is selected it automatically locates the existing Vortexbox music server and mounts its storage drive for MPD to output PCM and DSD via USB. This mode supports true gapless playback for FLAC, ALAC, WAV, and AIFF.
Mode #4 - HQ Player NAA - This mode is intended to work with Signalyst's HQ Player running on your computer. Digital signal processing is performed by the HQ Player application. This output supports true gapless playback. The processed data is then asynchronously streamed over the network to the Network Audio Adapter (NAA) to output PCM or DSD via USB.
STANDARD FEATURES
The SOtM Mini Server supports gapless playback
The SOtM Mini Server supports PCM output via USB
The SOtM Mini Server supports DSD/DoP output via USB
The SOtM Mini Server supports internet radio and streaming radio services from LMS
The SOtM Mini Server is isolated from noise on the network
The SOtM Mini Server supports the following PCM sample rates: 44.1KHz, 48KHz, 88.2KHz, 96KHz, 176.4KHz, 192KHz, 352.8KHz and 384KHz
The SOtM Mini Server supports the following DSD rates: DSD64 and DSD128
The SOtM Mini Server plays AAC, AIFF, ALAC, FLAC, MP3, and WAV files from HTTP streams
The SOtM Mini Server is controlled via apps on your mobile device
The SOtM Mini Server is based on Sonic Orbiter that is open source (GPL 2)
Edits: 10/16/14 10/16/14 10/16/14
You have an Ethernet cable up to your iPad Mini and to your stream?
Shielded? Cat 5, 6 or 7?
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
UPnP (Universal Plug "n" Play) is a set of protocols that allows a streamer Center to access music files that are stored on a Network Attached Storage device (NAS), or other UPnP compatible music server, to be quickly and easily selected and played.
Essentially the server announces its availability on your home Ethernet network that it can be uses as a renderer (playback device) for music stored on a UPnP-capable server. A control point device (iPad, iPhone, Android tablet, etc) is used to select the streamer as a renderer together with a NAS as a server. The control point device requires an app like PlugPlayer or other control point software for browsing and playlist control.
------------------
Funny for not knowing about networks I have three systems being fed Redbook, 96 Khz, 192 Khz, and DSD music files along with metadata with one set of hard drives.
"Funny for not knowing about networks I have three systems being fed Redbook, 96 Khz, 192 Khz, and DSD music files along with metadata with one set of hard drives."
Making a bunch of computers apparently work together is not the same thing as understanding in detail how they actually work or being able to diagnose which device is malfunctioning when they fail to work. These taska include the ability to understand the specifications on which the network is based.
And here, I'm just talking in the "bits are bits" sense. If you start going beyond this mid-fi level of sound quality then you are in an even more difficult world which no one has yet mastered.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
I'm in total agreement with you.
You would be surprised, and I sweat it is true, I know high level IT managers that can't figure out how to get music files on their computers to their stereos via network.
Tony I do not think he understands how a network really works. His streamer is on the network it is not an endpoint as you mentioned can be done with HQplayer, LMS, or with a JPlay two computer setup.regards
Bob
Edits: 10/16/14
Funny, I have PCM files up to 192 Khz and DSD files streaming to three separate systems with one set of hard drives. No dropouts, stuttering, or MIA devices. EVER.I thought the way UPnP works is common knowledge.
I don't want to know anything. I just want my music. And I have it in spades.
As I said, you are concerned with the nuts and bolts far more than the enjoyment.
Edits: 10/16/14
"I don't want to know anything."
OK :)
Tony....do you not understand the iPad simply sends commands to the server software which controls playback on the streamer?Why do you think the iPad or any control device has some direct connection to the streamer. They do not directly communicate in any way.
I'm beside myself.
In NO way does WiFi touch my audio files. My NAS (computer with attached drives) is wired with CAT7, my streamers are wired with CAT7. The control point (tablet/phone) is on WiFi. Since everything is on the same network, the iPad is nothing but a remote control, but it DOES not send direct commands to the streamer, nor does it send it files to play.
Edits: 10/16/14 10/16/14
Thank you for answering my question.
The control device may still affect the sound quality of your audio system. It may do so through its direct radiation, through its power connections (if not on battery) or through its Ethernet cables (even if cat 7 shielded). The test for this is to move the control device out of the room, say right next to the computer that it is controlling. Alternatively, if your Ethernet cable is long enough, you can try moving the control device right next to the audio stack and see what effect this has.
It is not a question of "touching files". The problem is not the "touching" of bits that makes them somehow polluted. The problem comes from pervasive noise from digital circuitry polluting sensitive analog components. It doesn't really matter if a device "touches" the bits or not, provided they are just digital data. On the other hand, if a device "touches" an SPDIF signal or any other "digital" signal that contains audio timing information it is touching more than just the bits.
It is not a matter of theorizing how, or how not, some piece of digital gear may degrade sound quality. It is a matter of conducting listening tests to see what matters and what does not in a particular system.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Tony, I am here to enjoy my life. I simply cannot be bothered with phantom gremlins, real or imagined.
Air conditioning may degrade the sound but I am not going to sit in a puddle of sweat to enjoy music.
I am going to have my iPad at my listening position at all times unless I am listening to a full album then I put it somewhere else simply because I don't want to knock it over.
BTW, I said I was beside myself because I know you are far more erudite than myself....no sarcasm there.
"BTW, I said I was beside myself"
Do you both take turns sitting in the sweet spot during your listing sessions? ;)
Nah, I hog it....his taste in music sucks,
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