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In Reply to: RE: Is it or isn't it a computer??? posted by Sprezza Tura on October 13, 2014 at 19:28:32
I may be thick or something, but for the life of mine I couldn't comprehend this: what is all that processing power for? And why is there touchscreen - is the user supposed to get off his butt, to change tracks, tapping on that screen?
Or does that PC - with the fans spinning - reside at the listening seat, connected by a long cable to the audio system?
Can someone elucidate?
Follow Ups:
"what is all that processing power for?"
Maybe to figure out all your nonsensical bitching?
"is the user supposed to get off his butt, to change tracks, tapping on that screen?"
Actually, the user is supposed to remain in one place, seated on your face, while you make your usual motorboat noises.
"Or does that PC - with the fans spinning - reside at the listening seat, connected by a long cable to the audio system?"
As much as I hate to say this, to be honest, while you're making your motorboat noises, something has to be ventilating away the stench from the fecal matter that has accumulated in your unwashed gluteal cleft.
You see, if we didn't do that, then we wouldn't be able to tell the shit coming out of your mouth from the shit coming out of your ass.
JE
Usual trolling and ass-talking, that's all.Well, may be your fixation on fecal matter is slightly amusing - but that's about it.
Edits: 10/14/14
These nonsense posts, that claim that XYX..(Fill in the Blank..tablet, laptop, DIY solution) are just as good, no wait, better than a particular streamer, which by the way, in every case, the poster has NEVER HEARD, are tiresome.I find it pretty shameless a when a manufacturer riducles a competitors product on a forum..if one is going to do that,have the guts to name it.
"An Android Phone in a fancy shell" indeed...yeh right.
To get back to the original topic..WHO CARES if a streamer/file player/server is a computer or not????
This is time and again thrown out there by the same bunch of posters to constantly change the topic, and to shift the focus of the facts...that is that purpose built audio components consistently out perform "optimized" computers with with USB DACs, and ridiculous, expensive add on tweaks like voodoo peace bases, absurd power supply configurations, and magic software.
"Streamer/Server/File player XYZ is just a computer in a nice case" is so stale at this point.
Edits: 10/13/14 10/13/14
The reason why it's important (from my opinion/viewpoint) is that it goes into a designer's mindset and philosophical approach.
What we have is largely a DIYer, (and some audio designers) who are taking a multipurpose consumer product designed to do many things, other than high end audio: (in some cases, the ANTITHESIS) of high end audio. They VIOLATE its multi-functional purpose(s), and turn it into something that it is not, and not designed for: an audio playback device.
On the other side, we have high end audio manufacturers, who work on the basis of experience, who are experts at designing high-end music playback equipment and start with that foundation and either make, or have custom mainboards made and utilized for one purpose, and one goal.
Their goal is not to take a general, multipurpose computer, and find a cheap way to get "decent" sound and hack something that is at its core a poor device for "good sound:" but to work from the perspective of high end audio, and utilize designs, (and if there are off-the-shelf) components, they are customized, changed, or partially utilized on the basis of the principles of maximizing superior playback performance: which largely, haven't changed all that much.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Yes, and if I am understanding one of your main points is that talented audio engineers who are designing these products under discussion are coming to the table with a distinct notion of designing an AUDIO product, and all else is built around the final application.
Where as those who use computers as defined by something sold at a Microsoft Store, Wal Mart, or an Apple Store, can get them so sound good with with the myriad of optimizations and wack-a-mole approach that invariably creeps in. But it is constant tail chasing, and anyone who says it is not is just being plain argumentative.
Yes, you're basically correct. But the thing is, not everyone needs to take things to the final degree that we do to be happy.
We are all ball breakers here.
You don't say? :)
The only thing that goes beyond ball breaking is the knee jerk reactions when someone posts about an interesting new product like the Aries, etc, or something someone owns, like the Simaudio, etc, and the immediate response is "it is XYZ in a nice case, and over priced". How one can determine the sonics from this type of speculation is beyond me.
On the flip side I have done ALL the computer as source stuff and left it behind..PC, MAC, experimenting with power supplies, USB cables, playback software, etc. I have a reference, where many posters have this reference but do NOT have experience with things like Sonore or Bryston streamers.
especially if one believes that SOTA playback systems are dying and/or losing their value.
But, - I contend that it costs one much more money in optimizing a commercial, multi-faceted computer (and thereby changing it's function) than it does purchasing a high-end digital file playback transport, as one of the 5 under discussion.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Again, no argument from me. I can't afford to purchase multiple transports. And the manufacturers aren't giving me forever type loans. I do the best I can with what I have and what is offered for review.
I don't get paid to write my reviews. The implications are obvious if I were paid.
Hi,
> These nonsense posts, that claim that XYX..(Fill in the
> Blank..tablet, laptop, DIY solution) are just as good, no wait,
> better than a particular streamer, which by the way, in every
> case, the poster has NEVER HEARD, are tiresome.
The debate under this topic happens to be a GENERAL talk about Streamers vs. Computers, rather than a debate of Streamer X from Company Y vs. the rest of the world.
> I find it pretty shameless a when a manufacturer riducles
> a competitors product on a forum..if one is going to do that,
> have the guts to name it.
As a mtter of policy, I do not name them.
> "An Android Phone in a fancy shell" indeed...yeh right.
Right indeed.
It uses a standard Mobile Phone CPU, memory is generic anyway. Power/Battery Management is the same items you find in smartphones.
The touchscreen is arguably an item that you would not find on any mobile phone these days, it is way too low spec (QVGA single touch at that - what a joke, we had these on Windows Phones 10 years ago).
The whole Wifi/Bluetooth section is part of the Baseband GMS radio Chip, so this again is a cellphone item, just the GMS radio is disabled in the firmware.
The software is an old Andriod version, mostly crippled to remove functionality.
They did bodge on a DAC section that is not cellphone based, though the objective performance is worse than that you find with the iPhone 6 (based on what that guy measured) and barely matching the older iPhone.
And the iPhone 6+ with maxed out Flash and HF Player costs less. I cannot believe I am recommending an apple product, but in this case it sure is a smarter buy.
> To get back to the original topic..WHO CARES if a streamer/file
> player/server is a computer or not????
Clearly those people who routinely try to pretend that they are not computers and that they are somehow "better" than a general purpose Computer plus a good externals DAC.
> This is time and again thrown out there by the same bunch of
> posters to constantly change the topic, and to shift the focus
> of the facts...that is that purpose built audio components
> consistently out perform "optimized" computers with with USB
> DACs, and ridiculous, expensive add on tweaks like voodoo peace
> bases, absurd power supply configurations, and magic software.
Hmmm. This is not my experience.
So far the various streamers that came my way were, on their analogue outputs, no match for an equal amount spend on a computer connectable DAC, combined with last years discarded laptop and decent software.
In fact most streamers have analogue line outs that remind me a lot of computers on board sound. There ARE some notable exceptions, but not many. So most streamers end up driving DAC and causing the same problems as any general purpose computer.
> "Streamer/Server/File player XYZ is just a computer in a nice case"
> is so stale at this point.
Well, if it happens to be true, where is the problem?
BTW, no-one stops you putting a general purpose, commodity parts based computer into a nice case as well. I did.
Ciao T
At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to untolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?
Speaking for myself: I extend you more respect because you're actually out there designing, building, and trying things.
So you're performing comparisons & experimenting.
"Clearly those people who routinely try to pretend that they are not computers and that they are somehow "better" than a general purpose"
I think that that statement, however, comes from a certain amount of lack of experiences on your part with the specific items in question. I suggest that if you don't know the items that Sprezza is referring to, that you familiarize yourself with them, as you talking Apples to Oranges when you mention anything to do with portable devices.
Your statement about these streamers having analog outs, is evidence. First, there are only 5 or so of these things on the market. Second, only two of them have non custom, (or manufacturer consulted/designed) mainboards. And those mainboards cannot be used as a general purpose computer, - (unless, as Tony elucidated below with the Rasberry Pi), they are highly modified. At least 3 of these streamers cannot be modified to be anything approaching a multi-faceted PC.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
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