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Yet another review where the BDP-2, and similar purpose built audio devices destroys a Mac Book Pro/USB set up."For the final switch, I connected the BDA-2 DAC directly to my MacBook Pro (running Audirvana Plus) via USB and the differences without the BDP-2 in the picture were notable. First off bass response became much more diffuse and overall there was a lessing of the sense of fine grained resolution I got with the Bryston combo. Images were less distinct, tone colors were less distinct as well, and dynamics appeared to take a few steps in the wrong direction, becoming less snappy. There's no question that the BDP-2 network player offers improved performance over the MacBook Pro in most important areas."
Edits: 09/11/14 09/11/14 09/11/14 09/11/14 09/11/14 09/11/14 09/11/14 09/11/14Follow Ups:
While I found the review interesting, I can't get beyond these comments under the heading of The House Sound:
"Overall I'd place the Bryston combo on the taut, analytical side. There's also a certain front-to-back flatness to the presentation, a little lack of air as compared to other combo's."
I've owned Bryston gear and the reviewer confirms the "analytical" and "lack of air" House Sound I have personally experienced with my Brystons. Coupling an "analytical" sounding DAC to any computer isn't going to change it's inherent shortcomings.
On the topic of "purpose built audio devices", I found the Sony HAP-S1 to sound excellent and I bet their flagship HAP-1ZES is even better. I'm sure there are others that sound fantastic. However, I've pretty much written off Bryston based on my experience with them two decades ago and again two years ago. I wonder if they still make controls for dishwashing machines? ;-)
A Short History of Bryston Ltd. :
Bryston began in Feb. 1962 as a custom electronics manufacturer, making products for a number of OEM accounts. The original founders, Anthony Bauer, Stan RYbb and John STONeborough, lent the first letters of their last names to make up the company name. Among the products the company made in the first years were electronic safety-flasher control units for the TTC, a blood testing apparatus called the Aggregometer for Dr. Fraser Mustard, controls for industrial-size dishwashing machines, and a number of other projects............"
Hi Abe:First,let me say that the "flatness" Lavornga heard could not be further from experience. I WILL say that I have found Bryton AMPLIFICATION to be rather dry sounding. But their digital literally has NO correlation to their "house" sound. In fact, if the amps and preamps are "dry", the digital is as liquid and "wet" as I have heard.
Here is a little fact for you. 10 out of 12 reviewers who reviewed the BDP1 /2 bought the sample.Same for the BDA-1/2 DAC.
Lastly, John Atkinson has published diametrically opposed sonic findings to Lavorgna on certain pieces.
BTW, if in indeed the Bryston pairing is "flat" sounding, that is a HELLUVA an indictment of his Mac Book Pro.
Edits: 09/12/14 09/12/14
I also saw that it works with Squeezebox Server for Internet radio.
Cool that it has the ability to pop in an USB thumb drive or USB HD in the front and play from that. Super appealing when friends come over with their music. Good that he compared the Mind as well.
For me, it is a great review simply for the fact that he TRIED Internet radio.
Thanks again,
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
FYI..I don't agree in the least about his notion of a certain flatness.,
The BDP-2 is THE most dimensional source component I have ever heard, and I have heard just about all digital sources within reason.
Secondly, you can connect your ENTIRE library to one of 6 USB inputs on the back, and bypass network streaming..if you desire.
It was actually designed for that purpose, and streaming was added with a major firmware update two years ago.
The BDP-2 wss designed for very large libraries, and it is loaded with more memory than the BDP-1.
Edits: 09/11/14
Too much commercial computer playback "lab-theory" and anti-audiophile dogma to compare these much cheaper, simpler, and likely better, sounding solutions. Happy that Sonore stands up against USB, and refuses to play along. SOTA developers, like Meitner, Berkeley Labs, etc. are wising up, and running away. There's also a huge difference between what trickles down from SOTA developers vs from mid-fi. With mid-fi trickle down, junk like the HRT Music Streamer gets made: which, (one would think), would help to kill the mid-fi stuff. The most irritating thing about the mid-fi stuff, is wasting all of the effort on USB band-aids, while having horrible connectors, crappy power supplies, cheap pots, and plastic cases.... Some of these mid-fi DACs sound much worse than their redbook CD player counterparts, (that people don't even compare them to): not realizing that good old fashioned redbook CD blows away mid-fi PC/MAC playback.
Trusting computer developers, who have always either sucked at, or ignored superior audio playback, instead of the experts who have proven track records in only DOING ONE THING, - is bass-ackwards philosophically and so, in turn, sends digital file playback development backwards.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Or must it remain authentic audiophile gibberish?
I'll give it its due: certainly no one can argue with it.
JE
... which, if you're not attending, you should consider starting ASAP, should be able do that for you.
Very well, said..
the coda to your excellent summary is that with the new Apple iPhone 6 we have definitive proof that Apple has no intention, and NEVER had any intention of exploring high quality audio playback, and probably never will.
USB, as I noted previously, has a chance on devices like the Bryston and SOtM. Not on a McComputer.
Lastly....many folks have bought into the propaganda that their aging, but still very commendable disc spinners can be "upgraded" with a "budget" DAC.
I recently had a friend go on a intense search for an outboard DAC for his very decent, but 5 year old player, because what he was reading, and exactly as I predicted, the results were null. Whatever you might gain is nullified by the need for a digital cable and the cheapie power supply in the DAC.
"Whatever you might gain is nullified by the need for a digital cable and the cheapie power supply in the DAC."
And you know that how? Superstition is a poor substitute for science.
True a new DAC may not help but then again neither does idle speculation...
Rick
You are speculating when you say I am speculating. My comments are from extensive first hand experience.
"My comments are from extensive first hand experience."
Oh. With the very gear, or at least another instance of it? That would be reasonably transferable outside of environmental issues.
Usually when cost is trotted out as the significant metric of device performance, the power supply in this case, that's strong evidence that the root cause is unknown.
It IS a speculation. But that doesn't mean that you are wrong...
Rick
Hey Rick,You may have missed his post. He owns both boxes, and has moved them around in 2 different systems. And, he clearly specified that in his "context" he didn't find the same issue of a "lack of air" with the Bryston: as in the review.
"That would be reasonably transferable outside of environmental issues."
Not sure what you mean by that exactly: Room?, associated downstream components? In any case, - both will ALWAYS have a critical effect on the performance of ANY transport/source. Context is important, but a known factor and accounted for when comparing several transports/sources.
Also, in this case, cost is NOT trotted out as any kind of metric for performance.
His direct experiences with the Mind & Bryston are excellent tests, constituting very good knowledge: and likely one of the best measures for judging the performance & value of both.
Cheers,
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Edits: 09/12/14
"You may have missed his post..."
I certainly seem to have missed something. It appeared a simple case of overgeneralization but apparently in full context makes much more sense. In hindsight...
Thanks for the feedback!
R.
. . . neither does idle speculation.
Hmmmmmm. I get your point but is this not a case of you idly speculating that their speculation is indeed idle?
My experience is that many inmates seem to speculate actively, energetically and at times in defiance of reason and science both almost all the time. They stop only to make enough time to call on other people to do measurements but never for long enough to try things for themselves and listen to the results.
More idleness, I say.
zzzzzzzzzzzz
Dave
/
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
And yet more comments from an experienced listener of high end digital systems. This is John Darko in his new review of the Auralic Aries."The glare and artificial sheen of lesser transports like the MacBook Air might not be obvious until one substitutes it for something superior like the AURALiC Aries (or Antipodes DXe). That’s the power of contrast. And whilst the Antipodes box remains king of the hill on performance, in pushing close to five-thousand Australian dollars, it’s also by the far the costliest option here. The more compact more stylish Aries doesn’t rip CDs or play host to your music library but it’ll run you fewer bucks than a MacBook Air + Resonessence Labs Concero HD converter solution - and it’ll sound better."
Note his rather intelligent comment about the power of the contrast.
Edits: 09/12/14
'transports like the MacBook Air'.
Nah, Merc is always a good sport.
Not really Fred. While I agree that low powered dedicated sources like the Bryston can sound very good, optimizing the computer can also give excellent results. You and I are in agreement with this.
But for soooo long you resisted (and denied?) it.
Fred never forgets :)
Throwing a bone to squelch another "I told you so"? ;-)
''They stop only to make enough time to call on other people to do measurements but never for long enough to try things for themselves and listen to the results''
I wonder why they make time and effort to do this, some with long treatise
on alleged 'scientific' facts.
"many inmates seem to speculate actively, energetically and at times in defiance of reason and science both almost all the time. They stop only to make enough time to call on other people to do measurements but never for long enough to try things for themselves and listen to the results."
I don't think I called upon anyone to make measurements although they can be of great value. However they can also mislead and even the most astute investigator may get led down that garden path occassionally...
Logical errors are easy to make and I'm not immune although I've grown fairly resistant. I think the key thing is to keep your assumptions in mind and review them at the first sign of an incongruity.
Rick
.
Yeah....
Did you say previously that you compared the Mind and the Bryston in the same system? I think that you said that you own/owned both?
Great to have both. In our case, - we have 6+ devices in our building connecting at any given moment to the same NAS. But having the option to plug in thumb drives, and HDs is great. The Sonore doesn't have that ability. I look forward to comparing the two in late fall. Pure speculation, but easily doing internet radio, and attaching thumb drives might trump SQ if it's not too significant a difference.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
Yes, I have both. The Bryston has a bit of an edge, but the MiND simplicity and app keep it very competitive at less than half the price.
The Sonore means being committed to the network approach. The gentleman behind those product is very sincere and is one of the good guys. Really puts a lot into the components. I'm on the cusp of ordering his new Rendu Signature Edition. Check it out on the Sonore site.
Yeah....
Caught my eye for sure. And, I had a great phone conversation with them.
I am not ready, - but will be doing my best to compare the Bryston and the Senore in a few months...
Cheers,
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
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