|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
184.95.55.18
In Reply to: RE: It is of course a computer, runs software, requires software updates and so on... posted by Thorsten on April 23, 2014 at 07:30:28
Yes, yes, we all know it is a computer. There is no pretending. It is a PURPOSE BUILT Audio computer, not one off the assembly line in China with a hundred parts that have nothing to do with audio and stuffed with bloated O/S's and software that again, have nothing to do with audio.
"Worse"? No running headless is BETTER. Controlling with a phone, which you are going to have in the room with you ANYWAY is far, far better.
You can make all the derogatory comments you like about a product like this but the fact is it sounds better than any "optimized" off the shelf computer running Jriver, Audirvana, or Pure Music. Yes, i have heard them ALL.
Follow Ups:
Hi,I first kept it generic, as I do not want to be seen to criticise a specific product, but as you insist...
> It is a PURPOSE BUILT Audio computer, not one off the assembly line
> in China with a hundred parts that have nothing to do with audioActually, earlier versions used a generic mini ITX Barebone as basis.
http://vaiopocket.seesaa.net/article/218200640.html
It's main claim to audio use is the add in card, which is either a USB card or audio card, plus the stick on badge on the front.
The casework of the current version looks a bit better and thus may actually be custom made, I can't be bothered to look if anyone of the usual suspects has a suitable barebone....
No matter the case, based on the manual/website the motherbaord is an obsolete intel atom one:
http://www.logicsupply.com/d945gsejt/
Last time I looked Intel Brand Motherboards were made by Foxcon in China (to go with the iPhone you need to control the thing), unless they found someone cheaper since.
So, this generic McDonaldised commoditised motherboard is made in China, in large volume and is full of parts that have nothing to do with audio, actually detract from audio quality and it was made by the lowest bidder.
> and stuffed with bloated O/S's and software that again,
> have nothing to do with audio.It apparently uses Voyage MPD, which in turn is based on two specific Linux Distro's and is likely full of software that again, has nothing to do with audio.
You could probably run Windows Server in Core Mode as J-Play player client in a similar style and get better sound.
> "Worse"? No running headless is BETTER.
We shall agree to disagree. Running headless is worse.
Ask any chicken about running headless.
> Controlling with a phone, which you are going to have in the room
> with you ANYWAY is far, far better.I am with Linn on that. Phones in the Listening room degrade sound quality... ;-)
And honestly, if is based on MPD I know the control software (some people I know swear by MPD based stuff, that if they do not swear at it for clonking out at the wrong time, needing multiple reboots to recognise audio devices etc.) and I do not think it is a remote patch on the stuff I commonly use.
Of course, different strokes for different blokes. Some think to be high end it must have poor usability, must be difficult to use and all that. Well to me that is low end...
> You can make all the derogatory comments you like about a product
> like this but the fact is it sounds better than any "optimized"
> off the shelf computer running Jriver, Audirvana, or Pure Music.Past Weekend I was at the Shanghai Audio Show, our main presenter (a nice bloke from HK) insisted to use his DIY Voyage MPD based system, which meant a untidy assembly of SSD, tiny system box, Wifi router and several plugtop supplies distinctly lower grade than what iFi ships.
It sounded worse than the 27" Lenovo AIO we commonly use. Heck, most of the time it sounded worse than iPhone via Bluetooth into the same system! Maybe in part due to the power supplies, but the All In One DAC/Tubeamp we demoed has a Switched Mode Supply of it's own (and as result spectacularly low hum, buzz and RFI), so it should not be.
I cannot claim to have heard them all, but I heard a few. In this case I stick to J-River on dedicated but generic hardware, windows stripped down to the minimum and suitable optimisation scripts run, J-Play or not depends.
I have yet to find anything that sounds substantially better using our audio hardware and power hardware and anything I'd prefer operationally.
Again, different strokes.Enjoy what you have, don't get upset by those who (correctly) point out that you are listening to a device based on generic hardware and generic software, heck I do so and I'm not bothered.
Ciao T
Sometimes I'd like to be the water
sometimes shallow, sometimes wild.
Born high in the mountains,
even the seas would be mine.
(Translated from the song "Aus der ferne" by City)
Edits: 04/24/14
Intel Atom Mini-ITX general purpose COMPUTER motherboard. Note the connector layout.
Auraliti PK Series PCM & DSD Player from their Install Guide. Note the connector layout.
Sure looks like a general purpose COMPUTER to me! And obsolete one at that since this motherboard has been discontinued.
"And obsolete one at that since this motherboard has been discontinued."
Is that actually a pertinent fact?
Just for some clarity for some who might not realize. Even the embedded board that do not look like a computer MB no back plane, ports etc... Are still motherboards usually with most of the same connectivity. No full size back plane but headers or bus connectors, etc.
It's a pertinent fact if a buyer encounters a problem that requires a new motherboard. I hope the vendor has a good stock of spares... many tiny Mom and Pop shops probably don't.
But of course, you have not heard the Auraliti. But feel free to keep commenting on what it "looks" like.
Hi,
The point was not what it sounds like. Many computer based systems can sound excellent.
The issue is that you claimed that a Computer made from general purpose china made hardware running a customised version of a general purpose Operating system was not a computer, was not based on "Made In China" generica, did not run and software and so on and that everyone should throw away their computers and get one.
Incidentally, if you are interested in headless, linux based playback systems, try a Raspberry or Beaglebone with Volumio:
http://volumio.org/
Potentially they are able to be as good as any Intel based McPuter platform at much less power consumption and cost.
Ciao T
Sometimes I'd like to be the water
sometimes shallow, sometimes wild.
Born high in the mountains,
even the seas would be mine.
(Translated from the song "Aus der ferne" by City)
Mr T,
For those who are interested.
A couple of cool projects...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/twisted-pear/250583-building-open-embedded-audio-applicance.html
and
Thanks Thorsten for reminding me about Volumio.
I tried your suggestion and downloaded and installed Volumio into a spare SD card for my Raspberry Pi and booted the machine. It came up, but I could not get it to find my NAS. After a while, I resorted to Google and it turned out that I needed to SSH to the device and make and configure a directory, after which I could configure Volumio to find a Windows Share on my computer. (The Volumio web UI had no error message other than "mount failed" to give me a clue as to what the problem was, so I assumed it was a network problem for a while before giving up and Googling.) At this point I loaded some 44/16 music files into the Windows Share and Volumio was able to "play" them on its built in DAC. Of course this wasn't connected to anything, but time passed on the display, etc.
Next I tried to get the Pi to talk to my Mytek. As the Pi doesn't have SPDIF out and I didn't have a USB to SPDIF converter, my first try was to use the USB 1.1 input on the Mytek and connect that to the Pi, since I knew this wouldn't require a driver. After making the connection, I tried to change the audio device, but no change, just the internal DAC was listed on the pull down menu. After wasting a little time I decided perhaps I had been stupid and rebooted the Pi. At this point I was able to configure what Volumio thought was "DAC" and it was now possible to play 44/16 and 96/24 files and listen to the music. However, when I tried to play a 192/24 this did not work. (This is because the USB 1.1 input on the Mytek only works up to 44/16. Actually there was some music, because somewhere there was a sample rate conversion but the Pi's processor was too slow for this to work without stuttering.)
Next, in what I knew (correctly) was going to be a vain attempt, I tried to connect via the USB 2.0 input of the Mytek. This requires a proprietary USB PAL driver installed on the computer and I didn't have this. So this would not work, i.e. the Mytek display showed that it was not connected to the Pi. So it looks like if I wanted to pursue this further I would have to either get a USB 2.0 to SPDIF converter and go that way or find a suitable Linux driver for the Mytek.
All of the above took about 2 hours, which seemed reasonable to me as I am no kind of Linux expert. However, the VOLUMIO web site implied that I could be listening to music in under 10 minutes. Fat chance, I would never have been listening to any music without the fix to the directory structure needed for the mount point to work, something that also requires knowing the root password. In summary, this was an interesting escapade but Volumio is definitely not "Plug and Play". At this point I would say that Volumio is in early Beta test.
So now I am off to Github, to see if I can compile a suitable USBPAL driver for the Mytek 2.0.... If I succeed in getting this to work, I will report back...
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Tony,
Some of your issues with Volumio are Pi related. I have been playing with Linux stuff with a CompuLab Utilite Pro. Much better and more flexible hardware. Do you know that that HQPlayer has a Linux version, I am planing on giving it a try. Looks interesting...
What NAS are your using? Try using the Guest account on your NAS and see if Volumio will see it, that is what I did.
Progress. Or more exactly, lack thereof.
I went to make an ARM version of a Linux driver for my Mytek, but discovered that the gcc had been removed. So it tried to reinstall it with an apt-get but this failed. The error message indicated that the gcc had previously been installed but had been removed.
I thought there was some kind of a version issue in the repositories, so I used apt-get to update the system. BIG MISTAKE. The system (eventually) updated and ran but all the essential optimizations (probably including the USB firmware changes) made the audio performance unusable, with stuttering even at 44/16. Back to square one, reloading the Volumio distro. In this format I can use USB 1.1 to the Mytek and it plays at 44.1 and 96.
Unless someone can convince me otherwise, I'm done. If updating the distro causes a step backwards, there is something fundamentally wrong.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Thanks, I got past my NAS issue. I figure if I had to do mkdir and chmod commands on the Volumio distro then it wasn't the fault of my "NAS" which was just my Windows 7 machine and which share was readily accessible from another Windows machine and also from a Debian machine running on a VM. So I figure this was a bug in the Volumio setup. After I logged in as root and made these changes the identical web UI configuration for the share worked correctly.
I am aware that HQPlayer has a Linux version. But, according to Jussie, it doesn't come with a Mytek USB 2.0 driver. Hence that issue. If i can figure how to get working Mytek drivers, then I will tackle this issue on the HQPlayer machine. Right now, I am deep into Linux mess. It turns out that the Volumio distro had stripped out the gcc compiler, and this wouldn't come back in without an update to the O/S...
I agree with your comments about the Pi hardware. The power wiring, at the very least, is marginal and even getting connectors to seat once the board is mounted in a pill box case is a bit of a problem. However, it's a good, cheap tool for proof of concept.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Thank you for the Volumio tip!
Edits: 04/26/14
No, I haven't heard the Auraliti but that is irrelevant to the original post. I am only lending support to dispel innocent misinformation on the product:
"PCM and DSD playback no software or computer, under $1000"
It might sound wonderful as do many computer based audio systems.
"It is a PURPOSE BUILT Audio computer, not one off the assembly line in China with a hundred parts that have nothing to do with audio and stuffed with bloated O/S's and software that again, have nothing to do with audio."
Now that is a serious exaggeration ...
"You can make all the derogatory comments you like about a product like this but the fact is it sounds better than any "optimized" off the shelf computer running Jriver, Audirvana, or Pure Music. Yes, i have heard them ALL."
But there are still lots of stuff out there you have not heard. I feel you are overestimating the superiority of the one box solution. At the end of the day IMO it is really the same, not better. It is all a mater of choice, dedication and what you are willing to spend.
both other PC mainboards, and the boards in CD players & DACs?
They are very different.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
"both other PC mainboards, and the boards in CD players & DACs?
They are very different."
Are you talking about actual CD players, or Hard Drive, Streamer type players?
Very different mainboard animals, - obviously, - from PCs.....
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
"Very different mainboard animals, - obviously, - from PCs..... "
Depends what you mean... More similar than you think, depending what you are comparing it to. If you are saying the desktop or notebook you purchase from the big box store, yes different.
But when you look inside, an Intel or ARM board with a BIOS running an OS. Yes reduced instructions, and running generally one application, but they are very similar to what many of us are using. Just not in one box.
When did "one box" become an important consideration for an audiophile???
I am saying two things, - (perhaps not so clearly).
1. That an audio only device's mainboard will be very different because it will not have bus slots for cards, USB ports, video ports, huge processor, and RAM DIMM slots. Many of these audio only boxes do have small circuit boards, but overall, set up with damping materials, better, (sometimes point to point wiring, tubes, etc).
2. There's a difference between what I think is good, and what is available: starting with the HD, - which also shouldn't be included. Separating the power supply(s)from the DACs are/should be a good thing.
Cheers,
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
I can guarantee you that a Mini ITX motherboard is not PURPOSE BUILT to be an Audio Computer. It is stuffed with tons of general purpose parts for general purpose computing, many having no relevance to audio at all and are most likely manufactured in China/Taiwan as are most PC motherboards.
By limiting the functionality of the Operating System by removing non essential services on this computer, and eliminating the display, the manufacturer is doing exactly what many inmates here are doing with their general purpose music servers (computers).
If the Bryston BDP series is based on Auraliti architecture as you mentioned, then I guess all those Bryston buyers are being duped into believing it's not a computer??
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: