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I have just installed a dual boot 8.1/XP package on my PC and is astonished by how much more open and musical XP handles replay.
This is with Foobar playing DSD native and PCM to DSD 128. The hardware is identical.
Unfortunately I cannot compare KS versus DoP in XP as there is a conflict between this and the XMOS Driver, resulting in Foobar not being able to change sample rates automatically or start with the first press of Play! This only happens with USB audio and has had me puzzled for sometime. If anyone knows of a FIX, please post.
Follow Ups:
I still have very little desire to change from my XP/Foobar 0.8.3. setup which sounds so natural and airy.
It's truly beyond comprehension why lack of support from Microsoft could be an issue - if audio PC setup is stable, and no new hardware, incompatible with OS, is being introduced.
What's more - if it's an optimized PC, dedicated to audio playback, there wouldn't even be a live Internet connection, and subsequently wouldn't be any unneeded support, whether it exists or not.
No need for support, at least on hardware that is already running and never connected to the Internet. However, over time there will be new hardware that will require new drivers, etc., and these may not be available for an obsolete OS. So eventually, one will have to face this issue. If one finds an existing machine suitable on can just keep it running, but eventually it will be necessary to replace failed parts and new ones may not be available and NOS parts may be hard to locate.
I have two older machines that still run XP. Both machines are way too small in RAM to even think about running newer Windows OS. I plan to migrate the newer one to Linux. I will be junking the older one because I have been unable to find a current Linux distro that runs reliably on this older laptop (which may have hardware issues). Eventually it will be cheaper to junk the remaining machine because of electricity cost, since this machine runs 24/7.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
nt
probably has no idea what good computer audio sounds like, anyway.
I'm a music lover, and I'm perfectly satisfied!
Why would being connected to the Internet matter? I know, it doesn't matter because you can hear the difference. That's nothing but self-fulfilling prophesy, a phenomenon that psychologists are well aware of.
LOVE!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Humility is the true mark of genius. Just get used to it."
-Anonymous
"Why would being connected to the Internet matter? I know, it doesn't matter because you can hear the difference. That's nothing but self-fulfilling prophesy, a phenomenon that psychologists are well aware of."
It does matter if you feel like I do, to get the best performance one should dedicate the system to a single purpose. Can you still enjoy music either way... Of course...
But let's not forget the paranoid who might think while connected they are being watched when listening... :)
"It does matter if you feel like I do, to get the best performance one should dedicate the system to a single purpose."
What if the single purpose is enjoying music? What if some of the music one enjoys is streamed over the Internet? What if one wants to sample music before purchasing a download and wants to hear the sound quality as well as get an idea of the musical content?
Sure there are ways to get around these conundrums, such as multiple computers interconnected by "sneaker net", dual boot systems, plugging and unplugging power and connector cables, etc... The questions then become: How much inconvenience for how much incremental sound quality? What can I do to keep more of the sound quality while minimizing the inconvenience?
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Humility is the true mark of genius. Just get used to it."
-Anonymous
"What if the single purpose is enjoying music? What if some of the music one enjoys is streamed over the Internet? What if one wants to sample music before purchasing a download and wants to hear the sound quality as well as get an idea of the musical content?"
Well one can do all these things without issue. My thinking was more toward a music sever. Just like a CD player or turntable. In the old days, and still now separate components are considered superior.
IMO same case with a music server. I happen to do all the things you mentioned, but just not with my music server.
Just like many things in life specialization improves outcome. Same here IMO. I have a SB Touch for streaming and multiple computers, tablets I-devices etc, for other things.
"sneaker net",
Do the wealthy call it deck shoe net? :)
" What can I do to keep more of the sound quality while minimizing the inconvenience?"
I don't really see anyone suffering inconvenience related to computer audio. Maybe it is actually too easy...
Since this is a hobby to me being critical is more fun and a challenge than an imperative. Musical enjoyment is not device dependent.
Many have multiple devices today. You can even buy a refrigerator with WiFi and a computer in the door.
And let's not forget the WiFi toilet...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Humility is the true mark of genius. Just get used to it."
-Anonymous
.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
But somehow I don't think that most of the banks, airports and other infrastructure systems will allow XP to die, especially since their systems work well and don't need those gimmmicks in W7 and 8.
Tales of exploits ready to go soon after the 8th
I've got to move 15 Win7 machines after our new POS touchscreens come in in June.
I am not looking forward to 2 months of XP with some of these kids at work.
"Asylums with doors open wide,
Where people had paid to see inside,
For entertainment they watch his body twist
Behind his eyes he says, 'I still exist.'"
I have an image of my c: drive using Acronis True Image. I get infected, all I need to do re-install my c: drive from the backup image.
I have I have foobar 0.9.5.4
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Humility is the true mark of genius. Just get used to it."
-Anonymous
I have Acronis True Image clones of the two hard drives (4 drives total) that I use on my main desktop, all of which started off from a single drive build of just the OS. However,
-- two drives sit "unused" (ie, not used on a daily basis but they get updated a month or two after I'm sure updates/changes are not buggy),
-- one "in use" drive is dedicated to programs/software and is not used for internet browsing (no anti-virus/internet security/always-on/etc programs -- performance oriented setup) and
-- the other "in use" drive is dedicated to internet only (anti-virus/internet security and a couple of "expendable" programs).
If I'm in "program/software mode", the appropriate drive is connected. If I'm in "browsing mode", then that drive is connected.
Other than the shut down/start up time, the swap takes about 10 seconds and is better than any other method I've seen to lessen the risk of bad things happening.
And even if it did, I have a "practically" ready-to-go clone via Acronis in 15 - 30 minutes (depending on the drive). The backups are only used to clone to another drive.
except that I don't swap realtime but use ejectable 2.5 and 3.5 in bays.
I can go from XP to 2012 in 2 minutes or so and restore in under 5 minutes.
Acronis on Win Server requires close attention in use and so I use dual boot to Backup and Restore from XP.
On the desktop I'm using, I can't do it because it's actually two different interfaces in an older computer: PATA and SATA (using an adapter). The next computer build will be all SATA.
I was actually thinking about getting the eject trays last year but decided to just wait until I could start working on the new computer. I may even do an XP/W7 separate drive build.
"except that I don't swap realtime but use ejectable 2.5 and 3.5 in bays"
How have you physically configured those bays?
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Hi I am also experiencing same exactly same problem with Windows XP and KS with XMOS Audio driver 2 it only happens with USB audio in XP : I love how XP sounds and it seems people have forgotten XP. I googled a lot about this issue as KS output in foobar is not working. It only plays if first you press Pause and then press play button. So for now I am playing like that as sound is so good. Are some USB drivers missing here in XP? I tried with Windows XP Sp1 and Sp2 and SP3. I find sound with SP1 the best and natural for my ears.
Use DopP and DSDAsio, XP loses the forward 'stance' and sounds good. Minimal buffers - 50mS
/
SSD Settings - no unnecessary writes, no page files, no prefetch etc.
All uncessary services stopped but still works as general use machine.
All audio friendly settings implemented.
Both have unused features defeated.
I don't have an SSD running Windows, but suggestions on the linked page look reasonable.
One thing the linked page did not mention is reducing (or eliminating) the use of log files as these contribute to the disk write traffic and hence SSD wear out process. One can check a system to see what log files are being written by doing a search of files modified in the last day or so. If there are periodic services that write large logs, then their logging and/or service should be disabled.
I've been running Linux O/S off a small SD card, but have taken care to minimize logging. Before this was done the system would "eat" SD cards. I would assume the situation is the same on larger SSDs, only somewhat abated due to the larger disk size.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Kill them. I use Acronis and Advanced Uninstaller if needed.
Don't need them really.
Tony, the big concern with wearing SSDs has more to do with large numbers of continuous large writes on a daily basis, not so much the typical and relatively small log files used by most OS's. Even with a good amount of typical daily writes, log files and user data, modern SSD's are expected to last at least 5 years or more.
This is not the case for less reliable cheaply made SD cards, USB thumb drives, etc. These can be plain flaky and unreliable.
One of the reasons you don't defragment SSDs, as one bright inmate here recommended doing, is the excessive amount of writes that it would require with little to zero benefit. There is no real benefit in defragmenting an SSD because it's not like the data is laid down on physical rotating media where having contiguous sequential blocks will benefit performance. The data is scattered over various NAND cells as the SSD controller sees fit.
It wouldn't surprise me if XP didn't create more problems with SSDs than newer OS as the OS hasn't had the TRIM command added. Also, there is the question of whether or not lazy writing has been enabled.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
This is why I have dual boot. On XP I run programs that W8 won't plus reliable and easier/more informative Acronis and Diskeeper. On W8 Trim works. On some earlier SSD, you can also run Garbage collect.
I just don't have ANY problems with XP on SSDs. Even w/o dual boot on XP, you can Trim as an external drive or run Diskeeper SSD Free Space Optimizer.
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