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In Reply to: RE: Forget about?? posted by Dynobot on July 06, 2012 at 05:43:20
It still is 250$.
And the pity is that the DAC would allow much higher sample rates.
There is no extra cost.
No idea what drove them to stay at USB 1.
I'm sure an XMOS+Sabre wouldn't have killed the budget. (Maybe the Wavelength stuff killed it ;) )
Let see. Maybe M2Tech comes with such a device sooner or later.
Did yo try to put a USB Hub in between the CCK and the DAC. My Audio-GD
works this way. With Pluplayer DLNA you should be able to stream even
24/96.
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::: Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 3.0 and more ::: by soundcheck
Follow Ups:
SC,
Next time we will invite you to the design meetings! Maybe you can share your vast knowledge about digital design :)))
Come on...
First doing the XMOS is far more expensive, second it is not compatible without drivers for Windows.
Second... What is so great about going to 192 or 384? Tell me... I want to know because those are multiples of 2. Going from 16 bits to 24 bits, now there's something to talk about.
Third... current the XMOS draws a ton more current and we already were drawing a bunch for the headphone/line driver.
This is a product designed for the world, not you! The product was designed by me but really AQ uses a team system and everyone had their say. Class 2 was never even brought up. Why... because AQ has 12,000 dealers and to support Windows alone would be horrific.
Fourth DSD... again come on... it takes both either the 9016 or 9018 dac as well as a PLD to switch the data lines and a whole bunch other stuff to make that work. Why so 3 of you can use it with DSD playback????
Really I don't get it... go back to to the SB and leave us alone.
SC, I suggest you sell or take the unit back to were you bought it. Though it does clearly say that it is a 96K capable dac and really then you have no grounds other than you bought it and expected the world for $250.
Others sorry for the rant, but this is just silly!
G.
J. Gordon Rankin
"Really I don't get it... go back to to the SB and leave us alone."
That would be something. Right!?!?
Thx for letting us know your emotional side. That tells me a lot.
I also appreciate that you let us know that you were the "mastermind"
behind the product. Suddenly all this starts making sense.
"Poor" Mercman plays again a role in that marketing game. (Obviously he is not realizeing this - it's not his intention to do your marketing)
Now you want me "to leave you (us) alone". Hmmh. What's going on here!??!
"Maybe you can share your vast knowledge about digital design.."
For this kind of disussion my knowledge is more than sufficiant.
And I can tell you I wouldn't have accepted your solution, if I'd
been in charge.
Look. You probably pretty much copy/pasted your latest stuff into that product. Most of the building blocks do show your already known design philosophy.
By doing so you ended up with certain - IMO not-state-of-the-art compromises, featurewise. Going this way meant less effort and licensing fees on your side and less design effort on the Audioquest side. That's nothing unusual in todays audio world. Lot's of audio manufactureres buy-in knowledge.
You guys explained why you've taken those feature decisions. That's all fair enough. However. There are alternatives even with XMOS or Tenor you name it in conjunction with different DACs then Sabre+PIC+AMP. But that's not your home turf.
You sold your concept to Audioquest and they accepted - you maybe even partnered up with them. Fair enough.
The market will tell you guys if you were right about your concept. The competiton will tell you if there are really no alternive concepts possible.
And one more word. If you guys intend to do your marketing -- ""leave us alone"" ?? -- over here, I'd strongly recommend to buy banners or open a vendor section. You better stay out of these kind of discussions. You as a manufacturrer don't have to explain anything. You got plenty of fans , who'll take your position, around here. We didn't discuss more detail (pro's and con's) then you'd find in any audio magazine review. I was pretty surprised about this allergic reaction. Obviously I stepped on someones toes.
Just to say it again. My intention was to layout my personal view
about the Dragonfly product from a feature perspective. The whole thing obviously ended up with a slight different spin to it.
Thank you.
P.S: My Squeezebox Project is free of charge and a community effort in some areas and makes - besides thousands other setups - even your high priced products sounding better!!!! ( You'll be surprised - the SBT can talk USB)
Yep. The SBT - A great product at 250$!!!!!! That's what I call value for the money.
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::: Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 3.0 and more ::: by soundcheck
A small XMOS/Sabre unit like the Dragonfly would be great esp. if they allowed it to be externally powered.
Dragonfly might just serve to pave the inroads for other manufacturers willing to take it a step higher.
imo they can leave out the Wavelength feature, more gimmick than anything.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
> they allowed it to be externally powered. <
If it were externally powered how could we use it on a plane?
~~~
The Driver smiled when he lost the car in pursuit...
"No idea what drove them to stay at USB 1."
Perhaps Audioquest wanted to keep things simple with no special drivers for Windows.
That will certainly keep things simple. No drivers, no switch to flip between USB version number or (in the case of my DAC) no choice of USB connectors to use on the back of the DAC).
A low priced unit doesn't leave a lot of money in the business plan for customer support.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Sure doesn't but thats the price you pay to enter a hot market. Slim profit margins in exchange for a slice of the market share.
I think this little thingy will have robust sales world-wide due to its price point and because it can ride off the already good reputaion of the Sabre Dac chip.
An example of this can be seen with Google's Nexus 7 and the Kindle Fire. Both of which have slim to no profit margins, but whos only purpose is to grab some market share and increase overall profit and exposure of their product base.
=============
From News:
What TechInsights has figured is that the production cost on the Nexus 7 is $184 USD per tablet. That’s roughly a $15 USD profit per device for Google and ASUS. Amazon noted earlier this year that they were basically losing money on each tablet just so they could send out a machine that would be a perfect home for their media – and of course this model did indeed work for a while, the Kindle Fire being second only to the iPad earlier this year as well
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
XMOS does it driverless: See Hiface II a 140$ device.
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::: Squeezebox Touch Toolbox 3.0 and more ::: by soundcheck
Yes, but this is S/PDIF output. AudioQuest wanted a dac that could drive headphones Or an amp directly. I understand if the DragonFly is not for you.
Edits: 07/06/12
Don't know about special drivers, USB 2.0 is plug-in-play for every OS. No need to go the special driver route...UNLESS you want more then 24/96. Which is enough reason to avoid special drivers all in itself. I think they did the right thing...even if it saved .10 cents per/unit the savings will add up in the long run.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
"No need to go the special driver route...UNLESS you want more then 24/96."
That's the point I was trying make.
> > > That's the point I was trying make.
:-)
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
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