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In Reply to: RE: cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO posted by cics on May 05, 2008 at 12:31:58
Edit: I have under estimated the complexity of this project and the difficulties this would present to beginners, In order not to give any false hope to inmates, I have amended this post to such effect. Sorry for the inconvenience caused."After switching to XP Home few months ago, I've started creating my own XP installation, not NLITE though. After some learning process, I have successfully incorporated registry slimming and tweaks into an XP HOME ISO. The ISO offers a big jump in reduction of registry size upon first boot. After implementation of tweaks, I am extremely satisfied with the sound quality produced by the current installation.
During my lone journey, I have invited a couple of experienced inmates to try the installation. After they did they unequivocally agreed to the supreme sound quality offered by the ISO and have parted with their beloved NLITE XP PRO.
Sadly, the current ISO is custom built for exclusive use with Juli@ and possibly LYNX L22 & AES16 series sound cards, there is no NETWORK or USB function either. The Windows does not Plug and Play in a traditional manner because too many functions have been removed. As such, it may not work for non-Juli@ sound card.
Due to complex nature of the current project, it is considered that only those who have good experience in computing can successfully achieve the desired results. As such, I am only inviting interested inmates who have sufficient knowledge in computer to join the trial, preferably Juli@ users. Upon request, I will send him an invitation to join “Dropbox”.
Please bear with me that I cannot walk one through or spoon-feed beginners to do such complicated task. This ISO is not for everyone, in particular beginners.Although I have tried my best to make things clear, the installation was produced during my leisure and is by no means professional. As such, the ISO is offered as is without any guarantee that one will successfully install or implement.
To safeguard my interest while offering the download, I will only make it available for a limited period of time and shut off accounts to access my Share Folder."
Edits: 03/20/12 03/20/12 03/20/12 03/20/12 03/23/12 03/23/12 03/23/12Follow Ups:
Inmates have questions about the recomended Work OS.
I am suggesting to run a dual boot PC with:
C drive = cMP Windows with my modified XP iso installed
D drive = Work OS with a regular or Nlite XP(no specific requirement but system restore function should be turned off.)
The above requirement is not mandatory. One may use another computer to perform the optimiztion on the cMP Windows, which mostly involves file substitution and registry deletion.
ask why you have chosen SP1 and not SP2 or 3?
Apart from SP1 and SP2, I have also auditioned SP0 and some earlier beta versions of Whislter Personal. In fact, Cicsplay.exe sounds best in Whilster 2457 > Whilster 2526 > XP HOME SP0 > HOME SP1 > HOME SP2 > PRO SP2. However, Cicsmemoryplayer does not work in SP0 or earlier verions because it does not meet the requirements of Dynamic Link Library for the eariler OSes.
Not only does the earlier Windows verions sound better, I found that the earlier hives (config folder) also sound better. By saying this I mean I have migrated config folder from eariler Windows versions to SP1 and SP2 to make comparison.
Each service pack upgrade added additional security features and updated Windows with more features, in particular security, and software compatibility, all of which are not needed but detrimental to music playback.
Hey Jack,
I always used sp1 until the recent hardware with the i3 or whatever cpu and mobo. But I recall that it wouldnt install with sp1 and I had to install sp2 with the new hardware.
Are you using the latest hardware or the older hardware and will I have a problem with installation?
Afterwards we discovered faith; it's all you need
Hi Douwe,
It installed successfully on H61(Rick and mine), H67(mine) and G31(Ted & Grant) mobos without problem. i3-2120T, G620T and Celeron G440 were used.
Why not clear your doubts by installing on an unused HDD?
Is it possible to rstore usb functionality? They can be disabled individually later.
To fmak and inmates using USB soundcard etc:
The current Windows installation lose so much of the functional abilities that it no longer PnP or respond to changes. In fact the system account, which is always in chagre of Windows, is no longer present in most areas of the registry. That is why one can comfortably delete the registry without undue struggle or facing a lot of dead screens.
Despite I've successfully restored USB ports in an recent attempt, the Windows was incapable of PnP or any installation action, not even a HID mouse was detected. It is apparant that a USB device needs to be attached during set up. However, even when I did, my HID mouse did not work smoothly. One may recall that there was a major update on USB from SP1 to SP2, and I also recall that the usb in SP1 did not respond positively if chipset driver is installed. The USB on SP1 is not mature.
There are two ways to make a USB soundcard work:
(a) Inject the working USB registry entries to the current registry, same as what I did to revive a ESI MAYA soundcard after instllation;
(b) Compile a new installation capable of PnP and USB.
A new instllation will take time to compile and test, but I will certain try one. With network? Most likely!
Injecting registry entries is a viable option that one may try with the current installation. To this end, I will to try to revive a Cmedia USB converter during this weekend and let you know the results.
Dear super-inmates,This all looks like a milestone in the history of cMP2, but for those of us, who have not followed the hive/.dll mods in all details, it seems that we´re close to what we could call a : "ultimate cMP2 installation disk"
There are of course those who do use other DACs and have certain specific requiremets, but maybe we will (in time) assemble a number of versions catering for different setups : USB, Firewire D/A converters, VST capablillity etc.
Just a few questions :
The ISO file needs to be copied on a DVD/CD disk, right.
Will this be enough to run a proper installation upon inserting the DVD/CD in an attached drive ?
-how and why the disk media, and not just "imaging" the ISO ?Does the ISO have specific CPU/MB requirements, or can it be installed on any PC...?
Sorry, but there are just a few basics I need to get my head around before digging into an attempt.
Maybe someone feels for writing up a summary on all these facinating developments.
I´m sure this is necessary to let the advancements apeal to a wider group of cMP2 fans.Kind regards
cMP2 Computer w/digital crossovers & FIR filters > Lynx Aurora 8 FireWire /192kHz all channels. 2x AcousticReality Ref. 202 & 2x AcousticReality Ref. 601´s ICEpower. Magnepan MG3.3R beechwood frames & custom stands. Miller chokes
Edits: 03/22/12
Thanks for your appreciation!
Here my reply to your questions:
The ISO file needs to be burned to CDR disk with software, such as Nero, Deepburner free or Easy CD Creator. This will allow a proper installation upon inserting the CD in an attached CDROM drive which is set to boot in BIOS.
"how and why the disk media, and not just "imaging" the ISO"
Not quite understand this question, would you please clarify?
The ISO have been successfully installed on H61 and G31 mobos. I have no reason to believe it would not work on other modern mobos or a regular PC?
Perhaps the trial users can help writing up a review of the current XP installation in order to make a wider appeal to cMP2 fans.
Hello inmates,Sorry for my late turn up and my mistakes made during preparation of the ISO! I tried without success reviving USB when I found that the Intel Chipset driver was not properly installed and that I've put some over-hacked font into the ISO.
Both issues have been fixed. I've uploaded an update version of the ISO, named "JW_HOME_SP1_2 (Jack Wong 2012-03-21).iso", and put two original fonts into a folder named "XP Original Fonts". Please don't hesitate to download the update version.
I must apologize to Richard (riboge) for give him false hope about the installation, as I didn't make it clear in my post that there will be no USB function (I only mentioned that in the Installation Notes). I did start with a Musiland 01US USB converter but gave up as it needed SP 2 to work with. As such, I switched to Juli@ and chopped off all USB, leaving such function available for use only during setup.
Thanks Ted for responding to the questions of Dawnrazor. I would like to add that, USB will be functional only during the installation period and it was my personal choice to remove the function because I want to remove all unnecessary things including devices and registry.
Yes, if one decide to start the installation, be prepared to switch back and forth. How many time? It must have been well over a thousand times for Serge, Rick, Ted and myself, can't remember. I have over 130 successful hive backups, some are accumulative and the unsuccessful rate is much higher! Fortunately, the current installation will ease the efforts. One can slim Default hive entirely in one single step and Software in 3-5 steps to 12kb. When one starts with the system hive and first deleted ControlSet002, the hive will become less than 250KB, a value once some pioneers cannot achieve even after months of work.
One can use any Windows as the Work OS, but there are benefits installing the Work OS on the same HDD as the cMP Windows and on the same mobo. Firstly, no jumping up and down. Secondly, it's a must to look into the Device Manager in order to identify devices that are useful for retention and those unnecessary that should be deleted. One must be able to read the cMP hive when he compares the details(long list of number!) in the Device Manager! Do one really want to plug another HDD onto the mobo to do that? One may partition the first partition into 2 viable ones, e.g.1st partition 300 mb for cMP and the second take up the rest of the spaces.
Edits: 03/21/12
Just a warm reminder. Now that about 18 inmates have joined the Dropbox, and some still pending, to access the Shared Folder, I should remind inmates to take care when downloading the shared files, as they are needed by everyone.
Thanks
This may just be an issue for me using a laptop instead of a cMP box, but what connection are those running this jw os using for their music library--perhaps,sata or esata? I have recently been using network to nas and earlier external usb drive so am wondering how I could use this os without either. I use firewire to connect to a Weiss dac, so would not want to use firewire for external drive simultaneously--to say nothing of problem of adapting jw os for firewire to begin with.
Thanks for your work. You have my most sincere compliments.
One question:
do you know if asyncronous USB can work (normally it needs a .sys from SP3)?
and to Bibi01s question, what about usb mice? It says in the instructions:
There will be no CD ROM and USB function for the current installation
So are you using a keyboard for control? And if so I thought cics preferred usb powered separately.
Also when you say "Burn the JW_HOME_SP1_2.ISO on a CD as one would normally do." I am assuming that that means making an iso disk with something like image burn (http://www.imgburn.com/) and not just putting the file on a cd??
And the concept of a "work" os is new to me. If I already have a partition with xp cant I just install the iso on another partition? Do I have to put the iso on c where the current install is? I am assuming I am going to be switching back and forth right??
When you write: It is important that “System Restore” is turned off in the Work OS or removed entirely during Nlite process, so as to avoid creation of “System Volume Information” in the cMP² HDD. Is that where you use Nlite to turn off WF "something" that you need for minlog??
I am seriously playing catch up here and that doc was written for someone who was paying attention.
Anyhow thanks for your work!! This is the kind of thing that will be great for the ho hum inmates like myself.
Afterwards we discovered faith; it's all you need
"So are you using a keyboard for control? And if so I thought cics preferred usb powered separately."
No basically you use a ps2 mouse for control."Also when you say "Burn the JW_HOME_SP1_2.ISO on a CD as one would normally do." I am assuming that that means making an iso disk with something like image burn (http://www.imgburn.com/) and not just putting the file on a cd??"
Yes just use a good burner, I think Jack has a recommendation in his dropbox.
It took me a few days to get the system to play music well and a about a week or so to get it to the best front end I ever heard.
"And the concept of a "work" os is new to me. If I already have a partition with xp cant I just install the iso on another partition? Do I have to put the iso on c where the current install is? I am assuming I am going to be switching back and forth right??"
All that is meant here is have another pc (preferably one with xp on it) so you can do the hive editting.
"When you write: It is important that "System Restore" is turned off in the Work OS or removed entirely during Nlite process, so as to avoid creation of "System Volume Information" in the cMP² HDD. Is that where you use Nlite to turn off WF "something" that you need for minlog??"
No much simpler than that. Once launched and you start the hive editting process turn off System Restore in your 'work pc'.
Edits: 03/21/12
Hey Theob,
Thanks for the answers.
On the mouse thing. Are you using a wired mouse? Or wireless??
Is there an advantage to shutting off all usb???
Afterwards we discovered faith; it's all you need
It is my understanding that this is set up for a wired mouse (ps2 version). Yes there is huge advantage to shutting off usb but that is not peculiar to this setup. It was true of the xp pro set up too.
Hi Jack,
Thank you for all the hardwork and creativity.
Can't wait too try your version.
I send you an email too get the download instructions.
Mark
cMP2 PC > ESI Juli@ > Van den Hul Optocoupler MkII > Lavry Black DA10 > XLR Mogami Gold > Klein & Hummel O300
Jack has pulled all of the major threads of cMP/Windows tweaking with major innovative insights into how WINDOWS works that results in an extraordinary package that with patience one will be able to hear good computer-based audio.
It was easy for me but then I have been playing around with this and had got a pretty good feel for the tasks. It does look like Jack's new instruction sheet does a much better job of guiding the installer than the notes that came with the early release.
This is not for the squeamish. It will take time and you will be making multiple trips back and forth between the cMP machine and your "other" machine. Nonetheless, Jack's disk will reduce the number of these trips significantly. Most importantly, you will not run into as many dead ends as you would if going at this blindly.
This is a reference work that gives us the new baseline to work from.
Time does not stand still and there will be suggestions on how to improve this. But for now this is the benchmark and a fine benchmark it is.
Even from the first listen (in the rawest state) I was amazed at how different the atmospherics were. Before I was listening to a 18mB XP Pro installation that I thought sounded spacious. Even in its raw state it exceeded my old install in this quality.
As one goes through the optimizations for this install the tonality will increase and quickly exceed that quality one could get with the XP Pro install. At least until someone comes up with a better way to use XP Pro.
So this is a gift. In the tradition of cMP/PLAY ...
If you are looking for the silver platter, this is not it since you will have to work to bring this to its highest state. But, as with all things cMP this is a good excuse for learning more about computers and this helps you to understand what to do when something goes wrong. Do not shy away from this. I have found this process addictive. It is actually fun once you get going!
One is left awed by Jack's global knowledge of WINDOWS and the fact that he has very finely tuned ears. Both are in great evidence with this disk.
Hello, everybody! This is a great leap forward for everyone, who has gone this far and is seeking for a perfect way in computer audio! The first major step I am going to take. Jack Wong Has DONE A GREAT JOB!!! I really say, I hope it will help many other inmates to join us, as it GREATLY simplifies things, and we are getting closer and closer to CMP3.
Serge.
This is the one....I know you have all hreard this before. One thing I have learned through help from both Serge's, Rick is that slimming the registry is a key enabler to better sound. When I was using XP PRO I was able to get down to a System hive of about 350kb which sounds great. With Jack's system I (and remember I am not a computer expert) have been able to achieve a 28kb system hive. All other hives are 8kb. This is coupled with files from prior xp levels mostly I believe from XP Home early versions. Remember when we all slimmed shell32 from 9mb down to 2mb how great it sounded. This system has a 45kb shell32!
Enough tech talk. What does it do for the sound. It deepens the soundstage, improves dynamics and imaging. The tone is perhaps the best part. It is warm but detailed, crystal clear in the highs and not bright. When you use the default hive provided by Jack to get a black, black screen when you minimize the screen during cplay playback you simply have the best highs in the business, period!!. It is the best I have heard ims and perhaps all systems. As many of you know I use Martin Logan Monolith 3's with very good (but not distinguished) electronics. Recently I heard vinyl through stellar electronics playing through the latest Summit X's (for anybody local it was @ Alma's in Birmingham. Mi)and I'm sorry this front end (I'll call it the Jack System) smoked it!!! Not even close.
There are a few pioneers in computer audio. We have Cics, Serge (Steppe) and Serge Mihaylov and now we have JackWong96. I worked in the auto industry for many years and we had an expression in powertrain that when something was so designed and implemented well it reached the 'end of the box' of its cycle. WE have the end of the box with respect to cplay/cmp. I am sure of it. Yes I know some of you out there will beat it with other tweaks but in the here and now, this is the state of the art!! Well done Mr. Wong you have have spun a masterpiece!
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