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In Reply to: RE: cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO posted by cics on May 05, 2008 at 13:31:58
Out of curiosity I thought I would see if one could see any change in the MEMORY MANAGEMENT registry when AWE is implemented.
On my host computer I looked at memory management and took a picture of it then implemented AWE (with the necessary reboot) and looked at it again.
There is no difference in the values shown. So I have to figure there is nothing we can do THERE to adjust AWE.
I did not look at the whole registry since I had no idea where else to look. I would be glad to do this again if someone knows other places that might be affected by this setting.
Now to find a way to view the sub-registry since there has to be something like that.
Follow Ups:
It's stored in binary inside HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SECURITY\Policy\Accounts\S-x-x-x-xxx\Privilgs]
Where the SID:"S-1-5-32-544" is the BUILT-IN\ADMINISTRATORS.
The below is captured from my working computer where multiple privileges, including AWE, were assigned to the Administrators:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SECURITY\Policy\Accounts\S-1-5-32-544\Privilgs]
@=hex(0):15,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,08,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,11,00,00,\00,00,00,00,00,03,00,00,00,12,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,0c,00,00,00,\ 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,13,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,18,00,00,00,00,\ 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,09,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,14,00,00,00,00,00,\ 00,00,00,00,00,00,16,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,0b,00,00,00,00,00,00,\ 00,00,00,00,00,0d,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,0e,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\ 00,00,00,00,0a,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,0f,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\ 00,00,00,05,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,17,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\ 00,00,19,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,1c,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\ 00,1d,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,1e,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,\04,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00
When AWE is removed, the first value changed to @=hex(0):15,00,00.... and the values at the end "04,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00" were removed.
I guess you've already removed it from your CMP computer registry.
I probably have. Not at home to check.
Easy enough to restore. I have plenty of old config files laying about.
We'll see.
The question does remain: just how important is this? If I have already disabled it (which is likely) and am enjoying what I perceive to be improved quality I wonder if this is still important in our minimized machines.
The more I read about AWE, and considering I am using a 512mB memory I really wonder just what it could do. Seems intended for large value memory installations. Seems like it could be confusing to the machine when the value of the memory (as in my case) is so small. Any opinion?
I tried the 1gB Kingston Value Ram without success. Could not get anywhere close to Serge's settings, would not run on low voltage and did not sound very good. Maybe the fact it was new and I was not patient enough to let it break-in? Maybe the version you are using is different than the one I got? I bought it from NEWEGG so I feel sure it was a real KINGSTON product.
And while I am rambling on - I have yet to attempt running the memory stick from a battery. What battery voltage are you using? I assumed a D cell. Does the MB still regulate that voltage down to the 1.2V?
Thanks!!!
So Gentlemen, riddle me this:
If I have deleted the entire BUILT-IN\ADMINISTRATORS account (ie: "S-1-5-32-544" no longer exists in the SECURITY hive), why does cPlay's Diagnostics screen still report "AWE successful" ?
Surely it knows what it's doing. On my main desktop (where cPlay runs solo - without cMP) I've not implemented the AWE function in XP Pro (though the box is ticked in cPlay's settings window), and in this case cPlay faithfully reports "AWE failed, reverting to standard allocation".
Could there be other places in the registry directing the kernel to use AWE memory management ? It would seem so on my cMP^2 rig.
To Rick's question (and I'm hypothesizing here with little deep research to back it up...), I think one of the real benefits of AWE is it reserves a chunk of RAM for exclusive use by the program - in this case cPlay - and is therefore spared the chore of requesting/obtaining memory space "as needed" during operation. One of cics's guiding principles is to reduce any OS activity that can be avoided, and AWE helps go in this direction.
I don't think the size of the RAM plays as big a role as the activity overhead of managing it. Does anybody know better - or differently ?
In any event, I'm happy I still (seem to) have AWE working for me in the slimmed-down, Franken-OS world of cutting-edge cMP^2. It sure continues to sound better and better as we discover new tortures to put our systems through.
Cheers,
Grant
That's not a Toy... IT'S A TOOL !!
it does not say that is what it is doing.
Their literature makes it sound like it has more to do with utilizing large amounts of memory.
Of course, the 3gB switch in boot.ini mystifies me the same way with a 512mB memory ...
Hello! Grant, Hello, everybody. It is also an assumption, certainly, but I think that we have long overlooked this file - ntldr, that resides in the root. It is very important to the whole system, and, I believe, it's getting modified as time goes by. At least it surely is modified by cmp-cplay, - there are strings about cmp-cplay among the usual program gibberish inside the file (opened in the notepad).
I think that the behavior of all: system, default administrator or guest, is described in one and only account, or rather pattern - the god's mode, with our accounts representing only differences (limitations), assigned to the god mode. In my ramblings across the net I have come a couple of times across refferences to developer's and god's mode in windows, but I don't remember where or when...
Serge.
Edits: 02/16/12
other Privilege Rights in one of the Security Configuration Templates, named DEFLTP.INF, in the XP PRO SP2 installation disc. It reads "SeLockMemoryPrivilege = "
Adding *S-1-5-32-544, or *SID, to it will result in AWE being enabled for the named SID, after installation.
All other privileges written in the same Template for different SIDs will appear in Local Computer Policy\....\User Rights Assignment in the exact manner as it is written in the Template. And they will be stored in the Security hive. One can see the changes in value each and every time the user rights assignment is changed. To view one's own Sam and Security hives in real time, one needs to logon as the System Account. In this connection, Psexec.exe from the System Internal can be put to good use.
However, the situation is different in XP Home SP0, SP1 and some earlier Beta versions, where there is no mention of LockMemoryPrivilege amongst a few Privilege Rights present in the Template. Nonetheless, Administrators will be assigned AWE privilege automatically. This is not the same case for XP Home SP2 though. The relevant entries for Privilege Rights can be found in dpup.inf in SP0 and SP1 etc.
I know too little about AWE and privilege assignment, and have no answer to all the questions. But what's presented, is solid.
You may aware that I've only 4 entries inside Winlogon and the UserNames/DomainNames were gone. I did so because the Administrator account was removed and there was no point logging on as such SID. I successfully logged as no one! And still got AWE. Perhaps, I've logged on using the Everyone account, i.e. S-1-1-0, which is the only account left behind after the deletion.
Back to the question of AWE in cMP. Although it says AWE successful, it also Ram Load each and every time, even when told not to do so.
And to echo Rick's comments, the effects of AWE is diminishing as we move on. I guess our Windows have become so efficient and quiet that it now closely resembles loading music files in Ram or alike. Just a guess though.
By the way, Rick, if you put NiMh batteries in, there will be no voltage regulation. The voltage will slowly drop from 1.35V to the lowest working voltage of your memory.
Using minlogon is one not always logged on as the system account?
.
.
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It should be used in conjunction with shlwapi.dll.
Shlwapi.dll also caused a no boot. I was able to use this substitution with mini XP previously but not here. What I haven't tried yet is putting in both your shell32 and shlwapi at the same time. I will report back if that happens to work.
Quoted from MS "How the System account is used in Windows."
"The system account and the administrator account (Administrators group) have the same file privileges, but they have different functions. The system account is used by the operating system and by services that run under Windows. There are many services and processes within Windows that need the capability to log on internally (for example during a Windows installation). The system account was designed for that purpose; it is an internal account, does not show up in User Manager, cannot be added to any groups, and cannot have user rights assigned to it. On the other hand, the system account does show up on an NTFS volume in File Manager in the Permissions portion of the Security menu. By default, the system account is granted full control to all files on an NTFS volume. Here the system account has the same functional privileges as the administrator account."
Some up until now have said minlogon puts one as the default user, others more lately have said it is the system account, now you--who seems to know what you are talking about--say it is "an" administrator account. Is it "the" (real, fundamental) administrator account? Is there such a thing?
More importantly, how DOES one logon to the system account?
download a set of very useful Pstools from Windows Sysinternals.http://download.sysinternals.com/Files/PsTools.zip
Unzip and copy Psexec.exe to your system32.
In CMD, type "psexec -i -d c:\windows\regedit.exe" and enter.
A powerful Regedit will then pop up under your service.
You can also load and view other Sam and Security hives without using any 3rd party software.
How the System account is used in Windows:http://support.microsoft.com/kb/120929
"Some up until now have said minlogon puts one as the default user"It depends on what account is logged on. E.g. in SP1, after minlogon, one logon as Owner, this one is logged on as Default user, and the Default User folder will be created in C:\Documents and Settings. If logged on as Administrator, then the Administrator account.
Edit: after minlogon, one would use the Default folder in C:\Documents and Settings, as a computer users, perhaps a super one.
Edits: 02/16/12 02/16/12 02/17/12
WOW, you are speeding ahead and flying high - I cannot wait to see/hear what you come up with.
Thanks for your efforts and your generosity.
if excluding cPlay, cMP files, 1 Chinese font and C_950.nls, The config folder is now 164kb.
I want to do more file substitution before letting you know. I now use a micro-shell32. It sound so much better!
I might have found a way, as my registry slimming went exceptionally easy and smooth.
.
with .dll substitutions and registry mods you still end up in the same place (if you want to).
config at 164? Incredible!
I have not been trying much lately because I thought when I got below 300 I was just about done AND NOW you post this.
I get the feeling there must a combination aspect to further deletions since I have tried numerous "single" items with no success.
Will TRY to wait patiently for the micro-shell32 but it is NOT going to be easy.
Congratulations and thanks again.
.
There is something else. No question.
But whether we can access it and more importantly have any idea how to manipulate it - that is the challenge.
unattainable spheres of security and default hive or probably also SAM, that are dealing with policies.
I asked this question to myself some time ago while experimenting with nLite, remember, I couldn't make awe with those ini-es?
Then I became more attentive and retained in nLite iso Group Policy Object Editor and some other group policy smth, and when trying to move forward, I was prompted, that some more items were needed for it to work, so I retained them also.
Serge.
if more of DEFAULT is shown?
I was doing some searching and came across something to the effect that winver is involved in this.
Can a .dll be modified within a WINDOWS installation or do they always stay the same?
Oh, well.
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