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In Reply to: RE: What mobo for new cMP setup? : Intel NM10 Express (Intel Atom) or socket 1155 + Intel I3 or Celeron posted by hfavandepas on January 06, 2012 at 14:43:05
Hi Mark,
Next board i want to try is Alix 1D (don't know when i'll have the time). AMD Geode @500MHz, onboard 256 MB RAM, CF-slot for OS, can handle XP-Home. I think the smaller the better. Downside could be small cache. No upsampling i guess.
http://pcengines.ch/alix1d.htm
My CD-player (digital out to Benchmark DAC1) still wins over cmp on sound quality. It just has less stuff than a computer. The more we approach a box with data, a bufferchip and good clock, the better for SQ.
SSD
Right now a 1GB Sata Disk on Module is plugged into my Atom-Asrock AD525PV3. Sounds slightly better than my 30GB OCZ-SSD.
http://www.ebay.nl/itm/FLASH-DOM-Disk-On-Module-1GB-7PIN-SATA-SSD-Hard-Drive-/300529538792?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f8f4d6e8
Good luck with your new CMP!!
Please report!
Douwe
Follow Ups:
> > Next board i want to try is Alix 1D (don't know when i'll have the time).
AMD Geode @500MHz, onboard 256 MB RAM, CF-slot for OS
The Bryston BDP-1 uses this board together with the Juli@ sound card. It is really an excellent sounding machine.
But it does not support the SSE instruction set so I am wondering if cPlay would be functional on this board.
I had used a CF on my cMP machine and it is slightly better sounding than the 30Gb Kingston SSD.
Let's know if you get to try out the Alix 1d.
Regards
so you're probably right: not suitable for cPlay.
Thanks Smicyta, i didn't think about SSE. I used to have a AMD-based CMP (Socket-A Athlon Thunderbird) on which cPlay could not function. So a choice for Alix will be a choice for 'back to Foobar'.
Or may be migrate to Voyage-MPD (though as a linux-noob i'm a bit reluctant to).
I read about the Bryston, also read it has a Voyage-MPD-based OS.
Did you have the opportunity to compare the Bryston with cmp2 or cd-player? If so, could you post some comments?
I'll be very busy with work the next months, so i will not build a Alix-CMP before march/april. When i do, of course i will report.
Douwe
I had heard the Bryston BDP-1 briefly at the dealer showroom. The only thing I remember was the pin point accuracy of the images, with excellent depth. Maybe that's the characteristic of the PMC speakers used.
Great! My speakers ar the PMC OB-1 :)))
for what its worth, I have made the switch to VoyageMPD on ALIX. I think the sound is amazing. The Linux learning curve is frustrating and steep. Lots of help out there but you have to search for entry level info that lays it out.
What you said about the Bryston describes Voyage. Very full/detailed/pinpoint but relaxed and 3d. CMP soundstage (with ultra slim registry) deep behind the speakers. Voyage sound stage is wide and goes from in front of speaker to well behind. I think CMP has better air and dark quiet background (using SOX). Then again I have not yet tried SOX on Voyage. It may be the same.
This is very interesting news!!
I ordered a Wave/IO board a few weeks ago, and already purchased an Alix.
nLited XP-Home (running on 4 parallel SLA-batteries) and Foobar on Alix gives lower SQ than Atom-cMP2-combination. cPlay is a great player (priority-, core-, buffer-settings).
When the Waveboard arrives i'll try first mpdPup (easier for linux-noobs) and later on Voyage. mpdPup could be interesting for even smaller platforms like RaspberryPi.If you do not use SOX in cmp, how would you describe the difference between Intel-XP and Alix-Voyage?
What kind of PSU do you use on the Alix?
Please keep us informed!!Douwe
Edits: 05/05/12
Douwe
OK, I spent an hour or so in an A/B comparison where the only thing I changed was the CAS -- First VoyageMPD/ALIX, then CMP2/XP Home with slim hives. Both are set to use Best sync Secret Rabbit Code.I must say I'm glad you asked for this compare, because it caused me to sit and really listen to both which was a treat.
I sampled a few cuts - Dianna Krall, Dave Brubeck, Dick Hyman, Patricia Barber, Mdm Butterfly & Yo Yo Ma, all on 44.1. Then a sample of 192kHz sample tracks. All classical.
The two systems are wonderful but quite different.
The CMP/XP HOME has a sweetness that is missing in the ALIX. In some ways there is the sense of more air and low noise floor black background. It is very special and could easily be a winner for many listeners.
The ALIX took a while because I did not want stop listening to each cut. It just has more. Sound stage wider and deeper and fuller. Much more detail and I want to say more sound. It is as if the CMP machine had filtered out a bunch of sound. By comparison as if you are getting the high points but missing the details. Kind of the Coles Notes version.
ALIX is a bit analytical. Not hard or fatiguing. I could listen all day. Quite liquid, but some might find it punishing with detail. As I write this, the ALIX is back in the system. I'm once again hearing my collection for the first time.
I miss the Cplay interface. Simple but so effective. The MPD clients do not like uncompressed WAV files so at this point I just have a long list of files.
A caveat. The CMP system is not fully baked. I am running it on a laptop with a Celeron processor. XP Home/fat32. I found this better than another laptop with dual core and XP Pro. It is nlite minimum with all the file deletions to Steppe 20. Registry slimming not complete. All hives at minimum but system hive still quite fat at 124k. Also on this test machine I have not weeded out all the folders. All CMP optimizations done. And all the dll hacks done. Because I need USB and a WaveIO driver, I can't just put in Jack's ISO and get nirvanna and I ran out of patience with all the work to cut it fully to the bone. WaveIO can really get messed up on a slimmed CMP machine. You will find that you'll need to re-power the WaveIO card just to switch CDs if you go full bore on registry slimming. I am sure this can be sorted out, but not by me. I'm sticking with WaveIO but moving on to Linux which simply has better supported drivers for this card on a slim Linux then the theyscon stuff on a slim windows.
Enjoy the WaveIO .. its worth the long wait. Build it a great power supply and be prepared to smile :)
Edits: 05/05/12
Hi Douwe
I have run the ALIX with 3 different power supplies. First a 19V laptop PS to test it. Worked ok. Then found an old 9v 3A PS from an old SMC access point. This I used for most of my learning time. Last evening I tapped into the linear ps I use for the WaveIO so the same supply is powering both. I figured the ALIX could potentially introduce some unwanted noise into the WaveIO so I tapped into the PS for the Alix well before the end of the filtering chain. I know this may be unconventional but seems to work well. I also cut the +5v line on the USB cable to further isolate the WaveIO from the Alix. My power supply is a 8A 12 toroid (a little overkill) into a 1.5a rectifier. Filter is CLCLC into a 5V reg then LC to WaveIO. I pick up 15V right after the first CLC filter. I figure if there is any noise coming from ALIX it will get filtered out before the WaveIO sees it. I'm really just playing around but this seems to be working really well. WaveIO needs full 500ma to run. It really does well on good power. The sound improves/changes with Cap choices. Currently have rectifier then small Panna FC then big choke/then large Sangamo can/then choke then BG F. There is a BG N right on the pins of WaveIO. I tend to roll different caps until I get the sound I like. This is pretty sweet. i bet it loves batteries.
I think the Alix on the other hand pretty much runs on anything. Slightly better SQ with the linear supply.
I'll do an AB test of CMP2 SRC vs ALIX SRC tonight and post results.
I had used a CF on my cMP machine and it is slightly better sounding than the 30Gb Kingston SSD.
What make & model of CF and what adapter did you use to get XP to boot from CF? I tried but I couldn't even get the wretched card to format, let alone load XP.
TIA
Dave
Hi Dave
I am using an adapter similar to this one: http://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/CF-Compact-Flash-Type-I-II-Serial-SATA-Adapter-New-/110784138767?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19cb3fce0f#ht_2674wt_1012.
As for the CF I am using an 8GB Kingston CompactFlash – Elite Pro 133x.
Software used for migration is Paragon.
HTH
You said
'My CD-player (digital out to Benchmark DAC1) still wins over cmp on sound quality.'
I am shocked @ this. Are you using digital out to the benchmark or analog out from juli@?
both connected to modded Benchmark DAC1 by SPDIF:
** CMP - Juli@ optical out (removerd analogue part of the card) - vdHull optical cable - BM dac1
** Marantz CD63 coaxial out - coaxial 75Ohm cable - BM dac1
OS is very small nLite-XPproSP2-install, awe, mem=256-tweak. No steppe's or BitchBatches yet.
The old (but famous) Marantz wins. Not easily, but it wins. It's designed very neat, has separated power lines for analogue and digital and cd-mechanic, but not a very good clock (like juli@).
I was shocked too. I got rid of the Marantz a few years ago, because cmp won at that time. Two years ago i changed amp (Arcam A90 to Hexateq UcD400 with greeaat PSU). I forgot, until Junaid lately asked me to compare cmp and cdp. I'm unpacking my cd's now.
I still have to try Junaids batches and XP-Home.
Besides that i'm thinking of trying Voyage MPD as OS, but I'm not really at home @ linux.
I think cdp's only task is buffering data and clocking it right before passing to spdif-chip.
cmp-boards have a lot more functions and chips to feed.
That's why i'm thinking about Alix 1D + Juli@.
How about your cdplayers?
Has anyone tried Voyage MPD as OS?
Douwe
I have tried optimising cMp to its utmost, but still the CD player excels in Musicality & overall enjoyment. The cMp sure sounds extended in the Mids/Highs but sounds Analytical when compared to a CD player. It was a big disappointment when i connected my Cd player after a real long time of working on the cMp. Inspite of tweaking & improving the cMp, both hardware & software-wise, it still does not stand upto a Mediocre Cd player as a transport. I own an ElectroCompaniet EMC-1 cd player, as well as an Arcam Alpha 9, & a Denon dvd-2930. Let alone the first two players (they sound far far superior), even when hooked up to the Dvd player as a transport, it beats the cMp easily. There sure may be more detail & air when optimising the cMp, but the overall enjoyment is somehow defeated. The bass & Mids sound way FULL in a cd player, as compared to the cMp.
Since i have spent so much time & work in improving the cMp machine, i felt its not fair to give up on it immediately. Instead i opt to try optimising it further for a while more, & inspite of that, if it still has a downside, i guess its wise to change over to traditional cd playback....
Just My opinion..
Junaid
I owned maggies for a long time, I believe you do too. I remember when I bi-amped or otherwise tried stuff that tightened the bass I got the same reaction as apparently you are getting now.
As in..??
Junaid
Thinner bass. A lack of fullness.
hi D,
Interesting result!
Are you using the recommended mobo or some other one? Which processor, etc.
Did you have both the cdp and cmp2 box running and connected during this test? If so can you just do one at a time disconnecting the other?
And why toslink vs. coaxial? Why not coax vs. coax?
2 things really. it is not clear this is actually a cmp2 box you are comparing, and even then I think you can only conclude that coax sounds better than toslink given what you posted.
Also were you upsampling or not?
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
Mobo is Atom-based Asroch AD525PV3. I tried this, because GA-H55M-USB3 was not satisfying SQ-wise.
See my post The Singing Atom:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/10/100814.html
Coax/optical
- when testing, only one item is connected (cdp or cmp2)
- on both cdp and cmp2 optical sounds better
- i connect cdp via coax for convenience: optical cable is very tight, not easy to disconnetc; coax (BNC) easy to disconnect.
OS/box
The cmp2 is a cmp2 machine (cmp + cplay).
OS is small nLite-install as per Junaid/Rick. Networking possible (but in bios disabled, yet). AWE, mem=256, minlogon. Slimming beyond nLite not yet done. Later i'll try this and report.
Maybe if i try this, and the other reg-slimming and mermaids, the cmp2 will win (i hope so). Next weeks i'll be too busy with other things (work). If i can find the time i also want to try Alix 1D, i think we must try to slim OS ánd hardware.
A cd-player has very little hardware... and a tiny OS...
Upsampling
The Benchmark DAC1 upsamples to 176.4 KHz. The sound is best when CMP2 upsamples to 88.2 and then the dac upsamples to 176.4
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