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In Reply to: RE: cPlay - the open source high-end audio player using ASIO posted by cics on May 05, 2008 at 13:31:58
I would like to express that I am rather perplexed at this turn that the cMP community is taking.
I am rather proud to belong to this community, not just as a simple user, but as part of a project - cMP2 - to help music lovers around the world to listen to PC Audio music in the best possible way.
I realize that together with this democratic approach there is a search for innovation. However, it seems that we are getting into a frenzy without putting a fullstop to amything. A new chapter is started without finishing the previous one almost every time. Don't get me wrong - I am grateful and thank anybody (Steppe, Jolida, Mihaylov...) who is involved in searching for a better quality system. However, a stepping stone has to be placed and experimentation cannot be constantly shifting.
For me, slimming of the OS is a very worthwhile approach - no doubt about it - but it must reach a point which it has to be reasonably easy to be employed by the rest of the community at large. This is part of the goal itself. It must be made systematic, otherwise the real sense of cics project would be lost!
We are not here to make a sort of "world record" of PC Audio reproduction!
That is why I was very much in favour of Jolida making a sort of installation disc with questions about each own PC system for making a proper "stepped cMP2 or a cMP2s". This stage must be taken to completion.
After such stage there can be obviously further development, but it cannot be our only concern. Most of all, we cannot constantly shifting our testing. Otherwise we would be loosing the community, rather than enlarging it. There are so many testing "threads" which are left unfinished. Or maybe the original proposer has reached a conclusion, but it was never presented in a proper finalized manner. Research must be channeled in to something realistic.
Let's not forget that usability is as important as quality. For example, Mihaylov's cicsRemote.exe was simple but useful; also, cMP interface would require a freshen up...
Furthermore, this latest hacking approach of kernel files worries me. Although it might be useful in terms of sound reproduction, it verges on illegality. I think we have to be careful threading this path - for our future. It's a concern of mine, that's all.
Perhaps it is time to organize the developments with proper chapters: Chapter 1 - nLite installation, Chapter 2 - drivers; Chapter 3 - minlogon;...and each chapter must have a step by step clear explanation for reaching its completion. That particular forum thread has to be reserved to those chapters only.
Obviously, a cics site update would be better, but he is not around and we better get organized.
Follow Ups:
then to organize things for ourselves.
Hello, everybody. This is unprepared post, so it may seem structurally illogical, but I'd like to express certain thoughts and ?proposals.
1. I understand perfectly well that a long pause in development of the project, that was caused by the absence of Cics, cooled many of the inmates who had been active before May this year. When it all started to develop again, it started without an "announcement", which led to the fact, that worthy and interested folks came back in the middle of the process, some almost close to the state, the process is now in. Certainly, it is very difficult to get inside once again, just because the structure of this forum is linear and we are limited by as many strings as would fit on the scareen, while previous pages are psychologically "outdated".
2. A lot of different things were proposed by inmates to improve the sq both soft and hardwarewise, and I don't think we should cut cmp thread. IN NO WAY!!!.
3. As I see it, and I may be totally wrong, we are getting very very close to an end of a stage in development, so it's a period of chaos before the natural settling down.
4. I am not a lawyer but I don't think we are doing anything illegal as long, as we do not openly and for the profit distribute files, that are not our own. I think we may easily distribute nLite ini-session files with settings for anyone to create his own iso, but not isos themselves. We can modify windows files as long as we do not touch the code and only play with gdi features and we can distribute our OWN experience, but, I am afraid, not the modified files.
5. In order to protect our developments IT IS NECESSARY to brush all the thread (both threads, in fact) in search of tips and ready-made receipts of both hardware tips and software tweaks and to preserve this experience in view of inevitable shift towards either new Microsoft or any other platform. I am afraid XP is getting a little bit to old and will be hardware obsolete in another 5 years, while our know how may last much longer.
8. I have serious reasons to believe that Cics WILL update his site with our tweaks included, but they, the tweaks, should be MORE USER FRIENDLY. Junaid, here is working on it. More people are invited to develop a ROUTINE for tweaking,starting, possibly with windows'install.
9. A proposition to copy our tweaks to another site is welcome, even for the sake of preservation and as a kind of pool whereyone can EASILY find ta. I. for example, have my tweaks ON SHEETSOF PAPER! WRITTEN BY HAND! And in order to rebuild the cmp again had to shuffle through them together with Junaid's batches.
10. We need to keep all lists (there are 3-4 variants) of the final windows folders. WE HAVE TO GIVE JUNAID OUR NOT_FOR TOUCH FILES'LISTS!!!
Junaid, did I give you mine? Or did I mess everything up again?
11. The strength of Cics' project was in ROUTINE meticulously written. From beginning to the end. We need to do it. And we need to find a most EASY WAY for those who will come to join. That's all about organization, as I see it.
MOST IMPORTANT WE NEED to find the source code for cmp and cplay. I think that Serge Mihaylov has it (He translated the GUI to Russian) and probably other folks. Somebody created a fine cue file generator. Lets find the man! He may have ideas of his own.
As for the tweaking, I think it's not long before we run out of raw material, if you see what I mean. As always the FEEDBACK on tweaks is most precious. I have just posted several tweaks but have got only 2 posts for feedback. Mario recieved few feedback posts for a BRILLIANT TWEAK... It discourages, because it... well, discourages. Your feedback, even negative is necessary.
That's about all. Not very systematic, I am afraid.
Serge.
Steppe, you haven't given the list of your "Lynx exception files" to Junaid yet.
I do have cMP source code and I passed it onto Mario for a possible interface revision through a friend of his.
I am all in favour of more user friendly!
Re. your Fishy Secrets, you can organize and post them in the Italian cMP2 site, if you feel necessary. Or you can send them to me and I will organize and post them there.
I am sure Mario has received more feedback privately, me included, than over here publicly.
I am all for it!
Hi Gianluca!
Are we waiting for new year's gift - a new version of cMP as the good old days? ;)
Serge.
http://cmp2-mihaylov.narod.ru/
My cMP2: Windows XP SP2 Ru, Gigabyte GA-H55M-UD2H, Intel Core i3-530, Corsair CM3X160C9DHX 1GB, system drive - Transcend IDE FLASH MODULE TS2GDOM40V-S, ESI Juli@, full linear PSU, NAS - WD My Book Liv
Hi,
the cMP Cover Project has been a bit of an odissey.
I went through 4 different programmers (one was even my cousin) who "did not find the time to do it", although it would take only one day of work.
Right now there are two hopes. One is a friend of Mario's (nagual19).
So, it will not be a Xmas present but I am still actively pursuing it...
...and I will get it! :-)
I've heard in a long while. I also have some ideas concerning the facelift...
As for Lynx exeption files... Well, I AM stupid. I don't really understand, what is needed. I have written the files that Lynx uses that are not needed for Jul@ - its portclis.sys and drmkaud.sys and/or drmk.sys, don't remember on the spot. I can simply send or post here all my files left, they are not many. Please specify exactly what is needed as if to a child. I am not joking. I have posted ks.sys, three files above, wdmaud.drv. Lynx works without any other specific files, if cmp-cplay and, yes, Windows start at all. I should note, however, that splitter, aec, drmkaud, drmk sys files are extracted from windows'cab during Lynx installation together with lynxWDM.dll and LynxWDM.sys. I even asked on Lynx forum what these macrohard' files are needed for, but no reply yet.
Serge.
Hi BiBo01,I fully agree.
And even more important: don’t skip ‘rational thinking’ at any time during the process.These two Steppe threads are a perfect example that some reflective and rational thinking is very much needed.
Thread #1: cplay 2.40 or better? New very important tweaks. (VERY LONG)
Thread #2: Tweaks reconstructed+ some newsIn the thread #2, Steppe reaches the conclusion that the strong effect on SQ that came from deletions and registry tweaks as where done in thread #1, where caused by disableling the Codecs. All other deletions in thread #1 had caused no effect.
Unfortunately, these 2 threads where the last threads where Steppe (and other forum inmates) asked themselves what deletions and tweaks had caused the effect on sound quality and which did not have any effect.
To me thread #1 and #2 also show how easy it is too draw false conclusions and how easy it is too mess up ‘causes’, ‘effects’ and ‘symptoms’.
I could not detect any learning curve or knowlegde development in the whole series of batched tweaks that followed. When inmates noticed an improved sound quality, this improvement was attributed to a curtain batch number of the Steppe tweaks. “After Steppe tweak number 14, my cMP sounded better”.
To me this is like ‘shooting in the dark, hoping you hit something’. And in case there is anything hit (better sound quality), we than still don’t know what caused the effect . We only know: after batch number 22 it sounded better.So unfortunately, besides better sound quality, IMHO the whole process also gave birth too a whole lot of mis-conceptions and false (underlying) assumptions.
- Why should deleting files that are not used by XP anyhow, give a cMP setup better sound quality?
- Why would slimming XP give a better SQ? (besides ‘the shooting in the dark’ effect)
- Why would slimming the registry give a better SQ ? (besides ‘the shooting in the dark’ effect)
- Why would storing 50 music files on a cMP disk, give better SQ than storing 500 music files on it.
- etcDon’t get me wrong: Steppe definitely brought my cMP setup a MUCH (!) better sound quality. The ‘codec disabling tweak’ and ‘the watchdog`registry tweak’ gave my cMP setup a major boost in sound quality. And I thank Steppe for that.
But I agree with BiBo01, getting organized is very much needed !
As it will almost surely also dramatically improve the quality of the process and the quality of thinking Which could lead too the conclusion: that we do not need too wreck our cMP too get a much better SQ from it. (which could unravel another underlying assumption: a wrecked cMP sounds better than a non-wrecked cMP)Mark.
NB I don’t think it is neccesaary too move too other forums, split up things, ect, ect.
The cPlay-thread is perfect for ‘software’ and the cMP-thread is perfect for ‘hardware’
fully optimized cMP2 PC -> ESI Juli@ -> Van den Hul Optocoupler MkII-> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
Edits: 12/14/11
You said '...Why would storing 50 music files on a cMP disk, give better SQ than storing 500 music files on it...' has bothered me also. I use 3 major discs/folders for my music files: D, F and G. With all my stuff loaded I think there is about 1400 music files. If I load my smallest disc/folder there is about 60 or 70 music files. So listening to the same music file @ the 60-70 level sounds a lot better. Today I think I noticed a possible answer. When you ask for diagnostics on cplay it always tells you how much ram you have available. @ the 60 file level I have about 6-7 mb of additional ram. This also answers my own question as to why I was swapping data at a level 15-20 seconds earlier just recently. I had not yet restored my ADD / REMOVE functionality in shell32 so I always had 1400 music files loaded and less available ram. Now that I have restored it I get a lot more ram available and longer times 'before ram load' in a cplay run. The size of the music file also affects available ram.
taking up the space.
Very interesting, Ted.
try to remove /maxmem=256 setting from boot.ini and try again, please.
Serge.
Tried it (deleting maxmem=256) and no difference in swap times or sonics. Big sonic improvement must have been from nopae and onecpu then.
ok
Hi Mark,
i think you are right, we can use some ration at this moment in our thread. But i think we would never got here without the creativity of the Serge's and others. Steppe could never have reached the watchdog-tweak without what you call shooting in the dark. When you shoot in the dark and hit something, you can go there and see what you hit, and then try to figure out where it came from, at which speed, maybe together with other things you didn't hit, etc. And from there start a rational process to the next step. That is what i like very much here. My learning-curve was very steep the last months: i learned more about xp than in the 5 years before!
Besides that i think Steppe's mermaid is a very rational one. She always comes up with very logical tweaks, which must be based on deep understanding of xp.
I think the main underlying assumption is "less is more".
We try to reach the sweet spot of size, design and sound quality. With both rational and unconventional methods.
So again, thanks Bibo01 for bringing up this issue and for offering space on your site to put the batches and 'evidence-based' tweaks.
Douwe
Hi Douwe,
Don’t get me wrong.
I’m very pleased with Steppes creativity and that Steppe came up with the idea too explore and tweak the XP software. And probably most important: that he was willing too put his energy and devotion in it.
“you can go there and see what you hit, and then try to figure out where it came from”.
This is exactly what I miss. I would welcome this very much but unfortunately this is rarely done. (As I argued in my previous post when referring too Steppes thread #1 and thread #2)
I fully agree that the ‘Mermaids concept’ is a rational thought/concept/idea. As Steppe nicely puts it: “leave our KS beauty almost totally naked and busy with sound reproduction exclusively”.
I also don’t see any other way than to do Steppes project through the trail-and-error concept. But for me, BiBo01’s call for getting organized, came at the right time.
As in any innovation project, Steppes project benefits most when many inmates participate and many inmates give their feedback and ideas on the project.
But right now, only just a few inmates are still on the project. Many other inmates lost track or interest.
And lastly (as in any innovation project) Steppes project doesn’t benefit when inmates suppress idea’s from other inmates or when they are displeased when other inmates make suggestions for improvement.
So my take is: Steppes project will greatly benefit in many ways from BiBo01’s call to organize.
Mark
fully optimized cMP2 PC -> ESI Juli@ -> Van den Hul Optocoupler MkII-> Lavry Black DA10 -> XLR Mogami Gold -> Klein & Hummel O300
Hi Mark, I won't get you wrong, i know you appreciate creativity and know your postings on the HW-forum. I agree we need some 'mass' to get enough feedback. Balancing act is nice put.
So let's hope the roundup will bring new directions/downloads on the cics or Bibo forum and attract some new inmates.
Cheers
Douwe
One can wait for a ready to go recipe or decide this is interesting enough to try to learn something about it.
I have no technical skills other than what I have learned from following what others have discovered and looking further because of their inspiration.
As Mihaylov has said many times everyone's OS is different. There are many possible approaches. There will not be one best for everyone anyway.
I think that if one reads the posts it is not hard to come up with something that will work well for you.
No one here has promised a turnkey solution to getting the best out of cMP. I suspect that if someone does it will not work for everyone, anyway.
Who knows where this effort will end? It might come to a halt next week or it might go on for years. One can wait for the easy go or jump in and
you may contribute something to the process. Even if it is simply reporting what something does is worthwhile.
So, who is going to organize the various aspects? I do not think anyone has had just one area of interest. Does someone tell that person to just concentrate on one thing?
If one wants convenience you best leave the whole thing alone. Those of us in the pursuit of best possible sound quality have no interest in convenience. I know I don't. Like wanting a turntable that adjusts stylus tracking angle and azimuth for itself. Not going to happen.
One cannot have it all - compromises/consequences.
We know what files are needed to have a working cMP. We are still exploring ways to minimize registry interference. Hacking the files illegal? Are you serious? I would not think a program that has been downloaded thousands of times would put us in jeopardy. If that is the case there are plenty of other things that have been suggested that would probably be illegal, also. Another reason for people to proceed with this on their own taking cues from posts instead of waiting for the "kit".
As with all DIY audio there is the opportunity, when combined with some effort, to produce something that suits your needs. That is what is happening here. Not something made to appeal to as many as possible.
If you want the best possible sound quality it is not that hard to read through the posts and try what has been suggested. The problem for you will be that the Serge's, who have led the way, are not interested in convenience. Would you expect them to decide to change their mission to suit those looking for convenience? Somehow I do not think that is going to happen. It might, anything CAN happen, but I would doubt it.
The obvious solution to this, for those who are interested in what you are wanting from cMP, is to find like minded folk and start experimenting. To expect someone else to do it is ... well, I won't say.
In actuality, to get to a very good sounding minimal WINDOWS/cMP is pretty easy. Quicker than setting up full WINDOWS and doing the cMP optimizations. But if you want to retain convenience, which for everyone will be different, that is another thing entirely.
Maybe we were all spoiled by Cics who gave us a gem and a kit (i.e, website instructions). But these 'post cics' tweaks are just that...tweaks that somehow have become more than 'just tweaks'. I cannot believe that anyone would complain about the chaos here....imo its great. Out of the chaos comes the creativity. If its hard to follow and difficult to implement...well welcome to the asylum! Out of the chaos comes a wonderful sounding front end that if I bought commercially would cost way way more than $ I have sunk into CMP. And how many of you have paid $600-3000 a pop for post purchase upgrades for small performance pops while cmp just gets better and better weekly sometimes daily with significant breakthrough performance for FREE.
Yes I get frustrated. I need to go n_lite to fix my registry but so what. What else would I do. Maybe I have the time and many of you do not. You can always do what I did when I worked 12-14 hours a day...spend $5-10K (or more now a days)for a front end. Or you can slog through the chaos and just keep learning/doing and making wonderful acquaintances with the brave creatives that share their work here ....for free! Let me repeat...for free!
Where else can you (for free) use an idea for a computer program from a brilliant physics/IT expert Cics (location tbd), have it tweaked by the ever creative Serge brothers (Russia), made easier by Jolida (India), Rick (US) and hardware perfected by a manufacturing/electrical experts from Scotland (Ryelands), US (Gstew) and Hong Kong (Jackwong). I'm sure there are others I cant remember right now but I don't know about you but I'm delighted just to have the opportunity to listen to them share their ideas through this forum and maybe even sometimes have some dialogue with them. I dont want to to give any of them an assignment to make it easier for me. I don't want to scare them away.
Hi Theob,
perhaps my idea of cMP2 is different from yours. I think the original cics project is about sharing ideas on PC Audio reproduction, not tweaking away your personal toy.
As I said before, experimentation is as important as sharing knowledge among music lovers. So much so that lately I have been promoting the idea to go beyond forum borders and bring cMP2 to the people, among the people, by the people.
That is, I have been organizing cMP2 Days in Rome, next Jan 15 in Milan and possibly soon in Naples. It's a workshop explaining liquid music and cMP2 approach, where we listen to music, compare systems and share ideas in a proper setup audio room. In Rome we had over 100 people.
I'd like to point out that I am doing this for free, like my whole Italian forum activity (including reviews). I am not promoting any brand, personal or otherwise. I do not work in the audio business.
Hi Theob,
I get what you are saying and probably would feel that way too.
I certainly dont mind the effort and messing with things. Please look at my comments not as me saying "hey I am too lazy and I just want someone to do the work" That is not what I am saying and not what I think Bibo01 is saying.
I AM saying that things are so muttled and confused that I cant figure it out. If you could even tell me the overall steps then I could figure it out.
Something like:
1. Do steppes steps 1-20
2. Nlite
3. Registry tweaks
Honestly I dont know if you guys are using nlite to do registry things or to accomplish steppes steps or something else. Or if the batch files should be used and when, etc.
And if I went back and started at step 3 where are the pitfalls? I recall seeing some revisions and some dead ends. I dont really want to go down that path if I can avoid it.
I would settle for a thread that just gives a general overview and links to the posts that tell you what to do.
Anyhow I read posts about missing things and going back to the original cmp2 build and finding things that were missing and it is easy to think we are chasing our tails. I am guessing that things are better now and that the improvements are worthwhile these days??
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
I have been through all of this from the beginning. Some points left me confused, and some ended in dead ends that required a complete rebuild. Along the way I learned a lot and a this point could build one very fast. I can offer a couple of pointers that might make this easy.
1. take the time to set your hdd with partitions. I have 3 key partitions.
C: is the fully optimized CMP2 player
D: is a full function XP with network with network
E: is where I store data. 3 key folders - music, all install files & image backups. There will be a lot of these.
2. set up the system to dual boot. later when cmp becomes nothing more than a transport, you can just reboot to windows and tweek it some more, or simply reload an image backup over C: and keep going
3. start cmp with nLite. Do the cmp optimizations and take your base image backup.
4. you can apply all the recommended file deletions pretty much in any order. I like to use a base system that is more or less nLite with steppe deletions up to 12, the Jolida tweeks and in my case full Bold Fortune. I added the lost registry tweeks and watchdog stuff. This is a very sweet sounding base that remains fully functional.
5. from there, registry cleanup and compression is really worthwhile.
6. I found it quesitonable if I liked the sound with the deletions up to step16. It was clearer but maybe not as real. But if you take frequent image backups (takes about 1 minute from the full function xp, you can easily go back to any combination and savor the flavor. take win_SXS stuff out, put it back in until the sound is what you like.
7. If you want to go for broke, delete the rest of the files and from xp, do the hacks on shell32, and perhaps all the remaining dlls. At this point my system came into a beautiful state. The clarity, sound quality, sound stage are all precise and top quality. Most important, the texture came back in spades. There is separation and air around everything that just does not exist at base cmp, step 3 or 4 or 12.
So, you can do a little or a lot. Until you master multiple partitions and frequent image backups, you will be frustrated by the threat of BSOD and a rebuild.
Hope that helps a bit. enjoy.
Wlowes' is a very helpful post. Now let's build on it.
Wlowes has illustrated 7 points.
What needed is a clear organized explanations of points 3-7.
Can someone provide links for each point or, even better, detailed info from each tweak author (you can email me privately if you like)? I will then organize it and repost on my site in a user's friendly manner (well...as much as possible).
concept of the development I see, with the way I understand how and why the tweaks work, how I see the possible future development and so on. I only warn that it's not "scientific" enough. Just the concept where logical thinking is mixed with dreams, like Bertone cars from the 70-s.
Serge.
Shoot away!
Registry tweaks, boot.ini...
For deletions, I think Jolida is providing batch files and, hopefully soon, Bitch Batch.
Let's assume that deletions are carried out to the last stage and resources kept as required (i.e. network and USB), it would be interesting to know how to, for example, upgrade a sound card driver and, in general terms, how to reimplement a resource without restarting all over again.
THANKS!!!!!
That does help a bunch!
Funny you mention image back ups. In the beginning I made the and found that they were kind of a pain and then I think once I tried to use one and it didnt work for some reason. Anyhow since them I have just chanced it.
Looks like it is now time to get going with them.
Thanks.
D
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
Well here is what I learned going from a full CMP^2 to Steppes 1-22. It locks you out of making registry compacting and makes it difficult to do registry tweaks. You can still do tweaks but either by reloading files into system32 or by using a host computer to tweak loaded registry hives (which also is risky...was for me anyway). If you do an nlite install much of the registry is already compacted. So you start out cleaner but then you have redo cmp^2 and all its settings per the CMP site (not easy or at least time consuming). So after you reload cmp^2 probably an easy way to do the file deletions (not the registry tweaks though) is to start with the files you need and eliminate all others. But do the registry tweaks 1st. Then with a 30-40mb windows you can do resource hacker (through a host computer and a docking station or network). Then you are done until something new comes up and you have to retrace anyway.
Hey I'm a victim too because I havent done the registry compacting. So what I'm going to do is buy another 8 gb ssd nlite it and slowly do it the right way. Why do I want to do this? I just read that the registry is loaded somewhere in memory so I have 10 mb excess baggage in mine till I compact it.
I also think we all have to organize our own work because our needs/skills/knowledge base is at different levels. I'm not against a site for this like as been suggested. But it takes people willing to do this.
I agree that we should't try to assign creativity, and i think we can learn a lot going through all the posts, it's just great!
Bibo01 just offered to put the batches & mermaids on his site, in a sticky topic, which is a wonderful offer!
Now we have both: creative chaos and an abstract of the most important CMP-knowledge on his site!!
Douwe
In the past days, I am working hard in making an Interactive program that executes the Bitch Batch in a very organised fashion. Somehow managed to get it done. The only thing that remains is the list of files I had repeatedly requested inmates to email me for their respective peripherals, which need to be retained for their functionality. I have got only Mihaylov's list for Network & probably Juli@. What about Lynx users?? And Asus Essence?? USB dacs?? EMU sound cards?? Nothing has been sent to me so far !!!
To maintain a web-page or whatever at this moment is a big question mark, as it would need frequent updating. Mods keep coming up every week with regards to Registry, Boot files, Shell modification, and the list goes on. I presume we need to wait a little more till we are Clear about the final picture. It's Hazy at the moment. Once the picture gets completed, it's quite easy to lay down a kind of Blue-print & then organise things in their respective segments.
I strongly feel its ABOUT TIME that Cics shows up !!!
Are u guys thinking of obtaining a separate Web-space to list the tweaks ? Or is it not a wiser idea of Cics integrating it on his own cMp website???
Junaid
Hi all!
I think Bibo01 is right, and have a few thoughts about this issue. The fact that this issue pops up means we are growing up as a development-forum.
What i like about this forum is that everybody is developing something and directly giving feedback in a very positive and encouraging way. That's very important for innovation, and it makes hanging around attractive.
I think our goals are good sq and fun. For some inmates sq is more important, others have more fun in tweaking.
imho growth of community is not a goal in itself, but is important to create sufficient 'mass' for feedback on the tweak-proposals.
About 'to get organized'. I think we should keep our chaos, and at the same time organize 'backwards'. I'll try to explain.
I have in mind that the first step of our last big improvement (steppe 1-3) was not the result of professional planning, but the result of the combination of Belgian beer and Serge's brain. In this mix the idea emerged "what the hell, lets delete whatever and see what happens".
And it brought us lots of sq-improvement, new knowledge and even more fun!
So lets keep that, and the chaos.
On the other hand, we should convert the chaos of the past months into some organization, i agree with Bibo01.
So, in order to enable ourselves in continue innovation, we need both perspectives.
We need inmates like Steppe, Mihaylov, Rick, and others who have technical insight and (sometimes crazy - in the positive way) ideas.
We need inmates like Junaid who takes lots of time to make batch-files and put much effort in findig the right nLite-ini.
We need feedback on the ideas.
And we need some organization, which enables others to take part in innovation (in stead of spending time scrolling through 100s of posts trying to follow the discussion).
Jolida did great work in the batches, and his idea of BitchBatch is more than great! I agree with Bibo that we need some space to store our knowledge (in the sense of 'where we are now'). A place where inmates can download batches, ini's, tweaked files (not iso's - could create legal stuff). We could share this space with the hardware forum, so newbies can be informed effectively. Maybe Mihaylov's site (if Serge wants to maintain this)?
In this way we can go on posting and feedbacking on tweaks and ideas. And once in a while, when somebody feels like summarizing or batching the development/discussion, this can be done in the 'knowledge-space'.
I wouldn't vote for splitting up in diverse forums. One software forum and one hardware forum is good for 'keeping the community in one space'. In many tweaks different 'chapters' can be involved.
I think splitting the forum may lead to splitting the knowledge and to less ideas and less inspiration from posts you would miss if they were posted in an other forum. Remember, the best ideas emerge when you are not focused on the subject.
Still here? Great!
Bottom line: let's keep the current posting-method, and let's create some space for 'backwards organizing'.
Happy tweaks!
Douwe
I am glad that a few people feel the need to organize.
Experimentation and organization have to go hand in hand.
I would like to hear from as many inmates as possible on this matter.
As some of you may know I am in charge of the Italian forum for cMP2, which can be found here: http://www.nexthardware.com/forum/cmp-cmp-cplay/
It is also "transparent" to naviagate the forum through Google translate:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexthardware.com%2Fforum%2Fcmp-cmp-cplay%2F&sl=it&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8
Therefore, folIowing Douwe's proposal, I can offer such cMP2 site - it's already there! Eventually, an extra "knowledge space" can be created, for example in the form of a sub-section of the present forum which could be called "cMP2 Advanced".
As it is now, discussions started om the forum can be saved and made "sticky".
What do you think?
I knew about your site, but totally forgot. It's a great site!!
It would be very nice if you could just make a new sticky topic, and put the batches, ini's, mermaids etc on it.
Thanks for offering to do this!!!
Douwe
Jolida, you can post your nLite.ini file, the batch files and the upcoming Bitch Batch on the Italian cMP2, if you like.
I will then organize it, if it's required, and make it into a sticky.
The same invitation is to you, Steppe, and to your Fishy Secrets. :-)
...and to all.
I am ashamed, but I don't know the site's address and how to post there. Does it imply, that I can go on posting here and elswhere as well?
Serge
A few messages before I posted yje address of the Italian cMP2 site.
Anyhow, here you find it again at the bottom.
If you go there, you will realize that to open a discussion it's quite simple. Just register and then you can post. If it all comes to the worst, you can always message me and then I post it - and SAVE IT!
A "sticky" is a message or a discussion thread that for its particular relevance a forum moderator plaees at the top of the page and it remains there. It is marked in red and it doesn't get lost. They can be considered as "Chapters".
You will see that those "stickies" corresppond to a revised cics Guide to cMP2. For example, also suggestions for the new H67/Z68 platform are included.
PS: I just discovered that the Google translated version does not include the 'New Topic" button, which is essential to open a discussion. I will try to have it fixed tomorrow.
on the Italian cMP2 forum one cannot log in through Google Translate.
Unfortunately, Google Translate does not allow it.
However, one can log with the Italian version and open topics/post messages in English - it's rather intuitive. We had it before with some German cMP users.
Those posts, which probably will become "stickies" as part of the main Guide, will obviously remain in English.
As an alternative, you can still message me directly and I will organize an Englsh Guide to nlite.ini, registry tweaks, deletions, batches...
One can still use Google Translate to simply browse the site.
HI Bibo01,
Well said, and I agree for the most part.
One of the things that has kept me from going past steppe 2 or 3 is that there is no real recipe. This was the genius of cics approach. Simple easy to follow steps.
What I have seen is some great attemps for which I am grateful. However there seems to be a rush and some things done in previous steps have to be corrected. This has kind of soured me. And the other major factor is that one has to go to every, EVERY thread and try to dissect what is going on.
I got lost. Is it steppe 100 then some registry thing then an nlite disk?
Or is the nlite an after thought (yeah I know what nlite does), a quicker way to do all the steps?
One nice site would be helpful. If you skip a day it is easy to miss what is going on like I have missed. I am ASSUMING that all this talk about nLite makes the old steps unnecessary???
And then what happens if you have to upgrade a driver. Is that going to be something that can be done after we remove so much. A recent example from my non music computer. I put in an ssd and had to re-register windows. It simply wouldnt work. It kept saying I had to call in, but there was no number listed and I couldn't activate windows. Turns out I had turned off the Telephony service, and that was needed to get the MS telephone numbers.
Anyhow I am not being negative. I agree with Bibi01 and want to make this the community it was. I appreciate that some of you are taking the lead and really running with this, but if there is no vehicle for others to follow then this whole endeavor is diminished IMHO.
Bibi01 has a great idea about starting new threads. Make sure we put them on the main computer audio site so they are more responsive and easier to search. Dont tie them to the existing cmp or cplay threads. Kind of like the old and new testaments.
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
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