Outside Asylum

Posted by regmac (A) on August 21, 2004 at 19:28:49

In Reply to: Re: Maybe another "crisis" in Europe will take care ofthat, you think? posted by Agrippa on August 21, 2004 at 15:57:03:

Agrippa:

1) "Did I mention Islamic Jihad with a word? Don't think so."

Then who were you referring to when you wrote the following, prompting my Islamic response?:

"After all, why should one bother to understand other people and their cultures and make an
effort to co-operate with them, when it is so much easier to dominate, subjugate and dictate on the basis of military and economic power?" The Israelis? :)

2) "For the record, party politics is of no interest to me."

I gathered that. Thus the reason for the preemptive political tutorial.

3) "...if you sincerely believe that Israel is a herring of any colour whatsoever, then you most adroitly prove my earlier point, namely that you lack any kind of insight into what is really going on in the world. Problems do in fact have an annoying habit of having underlying causes and if you in fact believe that people like Bin Laden just pops up for no reason..."

I see. If America would only change it's stance vis-a-vis Israel, the lion would lie down with the lamb and bin Laden would play nice. Is that about it? This strikes me as muddleheaded, not to mention naive in the extreme.

Perhaps it would be helpful if Iran would change its policy vis-a-vis Israel. It's instructive to note that an Iranian wrestler was prevented from wrestling an Israeli during the Olympics because Iran remains resolute in its refusal to acknowledge the existence of Israel. How very 21st century of them.

Were we to help bin Laden push Israel into the sea tomorrow he would still want to eradicate America. The U.S. is a target because we're powerful, rich, and good. We are resented for our power, envied for our wealth, and hated for our liberty. And in that regard the bin Ladens of the world have a lot of company (read: European).

American accept that fact. We realize its always going to be lonely at the top. :)

Ironically, bin Laden would probably agree that Israel is a red herring. What infuriates him is not so much our stance towards Israel, as the fact there are American troops in Saudi Arabia; some of which are -- Gasp! -- female.

And this goes to the notion of national sovereignty: Should sovereign nations have the legal right to enter into alliances with each other without fear of terrorist reprisals, or should we defer to the terrorists?

In the world of realpolitik nations act in accordance with what they perceive as their own best interests. We can debate the accuracy of those perceptions, but the notion that America is doing anything unique is simply silly. Contrary to what the United Nations -- now there's an oxymoron if ever there was one -- might say. The French do what's best for the French, the Germans for the Germans, etc. Should you disagree then please be good enough to point to one nation you would deem as being altruistic...just one.

4) "...by gaining just a little bit of knowledge, understanding and respect for other people's cultures, the US would be able to foresee what impact it's foreign policies will have on the people in question."

Is this yet another "sweeping" accusation or are you really of the opinion that the U.S. has not even "a little bit of knowledge" about other cultures? And just what exactly is the cultural lesson to be learned that will cause bin Laden, Islamic Jihad, Hammas, Iran, et al. to cease and desist? Please enlighten me. It's as if you're recalling sound bites and posting them here.

I should think that no one save the most obtuse among us would be foolish enough to believe that cultural awareness will purge us of bin Laden and his ilk.

Just as many in the Muslim world refuse to acknowledge the existence of Israel, there are those, and they are no doubt many, who see no good reason as to why America should exist

5) "I respectfully (and I mean that, although you'll probably not take it that way) suggest that you need to read some world history."

Your pedantic side is showing. :) Is that your standard response to anyone who disagrees with your point of view? Attempt to label them as ignorant? That strikes me as a bit transparent. How old are you? So which historians would you have me read? Moreover, how do you know I haven't and merely reject their view?

6 "The real tragedy is that until recently (in historical terms at least) it would have taken comparatively little to change your enemy-image in the Muslim world, whereas now it is most likely too late."

Oh come on. And what did the Spanish need to do to change their image? Become intimidated and elect a leader more in tune with the Muslim world? So much for national sovereignty.