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In Reply to: RE: Hold it!!! posted by cpotl on October 03, 2014 at 05:50:16
" challenges the listener to discriminate, under proper A/B/X blind-testing conditions, between their own amplifier, a "standard" amplifier, and a third mystery amplifier X...."Accordingly to my indications, these comparisons enabled concluding that any significant difference would not occur in the amplifiers under exam. So, I don't see the problem.
Edits: 10/03/14Follow Ups:
"However, I did not propose generic tests of musics, but experiments using pieces of classical music that, in my opinion, should better put in evidence differences (better if using a good CD player as source), from recordings of natural source (e.g., violins), whose real image everybody cold have as reference from concert halls."
As far as I recall, the listener was free to provide the sound source and the musical recording.
"If your suspect is too strong to led you to neither ascertain if the phenomenon occurs, I would only encourage you to try."
It's quite a lot of trouble to set up a proper double-blind test. I've never felt strongly enough about it to want to do that. But I'd be interested to hear of any other proper double-blind tests that have been conducted. Anecdotal reports of differences heard under less controlled conditions don't really tell us much at all. The human ear and mind are too susceptible to other influences for those kind of reports to mean much.
Maybe Richard Clark is still offering his challenge. In which case there's $10,000 waiting for the person who can actually demonstrate the ability to tell the amplifiers apart.
Chris
I don't like to play with the three cards like in Naples, because there is always a trick.
Roberto
Edits: 10/03/14 10/03/14 10/03/14
"I don't like to play with the three cards like in Naples, because there is always a trick."
I don't think Richard Clark is trying to trick anybody. He has simply realised what others should have done also, that the audiophile talk is sometimes lacking in solid backing. He is (or was) offering $10,000 to anyone who could prove him wrong. And thousands tried, and failed.
Anyway, if you could conduct some true double-blind tests of the Yamaha vs a tube circlotron, it would be very interesting to hear the outcome. My own impression of the various OTL amps I have built is that they sound great, but also that they are rematkably close in sound to a solid-state amp. (Perhaps because they have very little colouration from output transformers.)
Chris
"I don't think Richard Clark is trying to trick anybody. He has simply realised what others should have done also, that the audiophile talk is sometimes lacking in solid backing. He is (or was) offering $10,000 to anyone who could prove him wrong. And thousands tried, and failed."Chris,
do you really believe that if one wants offering $ 10000 for noting, he would not be sure of not trowing away money and, in the same time, supporting his interest? Who participated has only supported the idea that, in this play, differences are not perceivable. Should such a constant outcome attributable to sonic identity of amplifiers? You would say "yes". My interpretation is, instead, that these differences exist, but they are masked by the effect of the same tools that are claimed to be exploited for producing more objective results. Lew argued already on that.
Roberto
Edits: 10/04/14 10/04/14 10/04/14 10/04/14 10/04/14 10/04/14 10/04/14 10/04/14 10/07/14
"My interpretation is, instead, that these differences exist, but they are masked by the effect of the same tools that are claimed to be exploited for producing more objective results."
The trouble is that this kind of response sounds hauntingly reminiscent of the response of a spoon-bender or a mind-reader when a scientist's investigation fails to confirm the occurrence of the claimed phenomenon.
I think there is a serious point here, which cannot be simply brushed aside, namely that without the benefit of the visual and other cues one normally has, it can be astonishingly difficult to hear the differences that one believes exist between different amplifiers.
Chris
"...this kind of response sounds hauntingly reminiscent of the response of when a scientist's investigation fails to confirm the occurrence of the claimed phenomenon."I would say better: "...when a scientist's investigation succeeds in falsifying the occurrence of the claimed phenomenon".
I simply said that, however and for sure, I would give the same answer that Ms Clark expects by his tests. Why are you not happy for that? But you should concede that in science it matters to interpret the phenomenon that occurred during these tests, i.e, that no differences were perceived. You repute a spoon-bender or a mind-reader who hypothesizes that other causes would explain the sonic identity. But, why are we forced to eat the meal that Mr Clark (and you) are offering?
Roberto
Edits: 10/05/14 10/07/14
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