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In Reply to: RE: Klyne, Beveridge system posted by airheadair on February 25, 2014 at 09:20:46
I'm a former Beveridge model 3 owner and now I own Martin Logan CLXs and I have a pair of older Monolith 2s.The Beveridge are really a unique speaker and there are some renown critics that still think they are the best sounding speaker ever made to this day..On some accounts,they may be correct.The model 3s at least,had one of the most brilliant executions I have ever witnessed.They were very accurate,they were a music system,not a speaker system that came at you.The music would fill the room and it would follow you everywhere and do it with great resolve.They had an acoustical lens which was much like a horn in a sense.The electrostatic panels were inside a compressed cabinet when all was said and done,and they would radiate out the front thru the acoustical lens at 180 degrees out of each speaker facing each other.
The woofers inside the cabinet that crossover at 200cps were gawd awful..It didn't matter tho as I was biamping into a stacked pair of Magnepan Tympani bass panels thru an ARC EC21 crossover.
Now,with all this illustrious chatter about how wonderful they are,you might ask,why did I sell them? The truth is,the panels just did not like the Michigan climate..I was tearing them down every two weeks and corona doping the panels..
I have also heard the 2SW2s and liked them very much but didn't find any.I would love to have another pair of Beveridge speakers but I have run out of room.I thought I should add,the element behind the design of the Beveridge was not to build speakers,but rather it was to build the perfect music system where you heard the music and forgot it was coming out of a pair of loudspeakers..I think Harold Beveridge was able to that better than anyone to this day AFAIC.
Honest amplification is better than 2nd order distortion anytime.
Edits: 03/01/14Follow Ups:
Mike, Perhaps your Model 3s had the experimental panels that HB built for awhile on printed circuit boards (or something like that). Rick Beveridge talks about that on the current Bev website (if it's still up and running). HB was searching for a less tedious method of manufacture, and he started to experiment with the advent of the Model 3 speaker. But those panels were a complete disaster, according to RB, led to customer dissatisfaction with the Model 3. There's more to the story, but I forget the further details. HB abandoned the method for the reason you cite; the panels were very unreliable. In any case, my 2SWs seem to be running with their 6 original panels (3 per side vs 2 per side in the Model 3s) doing fine.
Apparently HB was not focused on the quality of his woofers. The outboard woofers originally supplied with the 2SW are also said to be crap. I've never seen or heard a pair, and I don't even know what they looked like. Anyway, I am "pleased as punch" with my TL woofers.
My 3's have the same panels as the model 2(SW)..I am essentially in the same climate as you with long dry winters and incredibly humid summers (when it even gets warm!).
I have talked the previous owner on this and he's never had a problem with the Beveridges in the 25 yrs he's had them & he's not experienced arcing of any sort. I've owned electrostatics of various manaufacture for 30 years and the only arcing I have experienced has been my own doing ,unfortunately.
I wonder if you had the more robust carbon cast stators or the FR4 (circuit board material) stators?- never the less interesting commentary.
Thanks
I think it's true that the experiment with the circuit board panels was short-lived. Shorter-lived than that of the Model 3. Hence there are certainly Model 3s with the standard panels. I was just struck by Mike's negative experience, and that is an explanation that came to mind.
The panels can't really arc in the sense that conventional ESL panels arc, because of their unusual modus operandi. There is no bias voltage on the diaphragm, in the conventional sense of that term. I think that contributes to the long life in no small way.
Lew
OMG,they did have about one inch of a circuit board coming out the bottom of the lower panel and knowing my luck,that probably was the experimental model.
I did make out well because the guy I got them from,wanted them back so he traded me a pair of Acoustat servo amps and a pair of Acoustat 4a.I only paid 1300 for the Bevs but not only that,I got all brand new panels free from Hafler,after he bought Acoustat.
Honest amplification is better than excessive 2nd order distortion anytime.
While there is no dc bias voltage on the metallized diaphragm the stators do have a dc bias voltage applied. We need a dc bias voltage somewhere to make the speakers work. The Beveridge uses a high resistance stator plate with dc bias voltage applied. AC signal as well on the stator plates.Arcing is always a possibility with any stat. Some designs are less prone to this problem than others.
Edits: 03/04/14
I know how they work. Perhaps I used the wrong term when I said no "bias voltage". What I meant was to refer to the unique way in which the Bev panels do work, where the diaphragm is conductive and there is no static charge on it. Thanks for correcting my semantics.
I thought it would nice for others that may not have as complete an understanding of the Beveridge. It is unique amongst stats.
In that connection, I have wondered how the Model 3s work off of a conventional amplifier but using the unconventional Bev ESL panels. Do they have a power supply built in, to bias the stators, or some equivalent?
Good question. While I have seen and heard the Model 3 I have never taken apart the Model 3 just the Model 2. The patent, etc., discuss the Model 2.
There must be some sort of bias power supply to energize the plates. Since both the plates and diaphragm are driven actively I am assuming two separate step-up transformers.
Rick restored my Model 3's. They had original transducers. Now, with new mylar.
Vbr,
Sam
Sam
Was it real expensive to have your panels restored? I would love another pair of model 3s. Another point I was wanted to mention is,you didn't really have any placement issues with the model 3s either.It is probably the most brilliantly designed speaker to this day on many accounts.
Honest amplification is better than excessive 2nd order distortion anytime.
Hi Michael,
I had the loudspeakers renovated. Rick did the panels and outer skin with a friend of his in Chicago(?) sorting the electronics. The Beveridge loudspeakers, I have the Model II and Model III, image so well in any number of places, as you have alluded.
Here's a link to the Model III's:
http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/i/f/1258338370.jpg
Vbr,
Sam
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