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In Reply to: RE: ESLs and OTLs posted by Ralph on January 30, 2014 at 12:27:38
I think I blame the speaker designers for this one. A 10:1 change in impedance is totally unacceptable (unless you're looking at the contributions of a port, or VC inductance that's not flattened out with a zobel for a good reason).
Trade those stats for some resistive planar ribbons!
Follow Ups:
I have full range ribbons and I also have ESLS which are my main speaker but contrary to published belief,there are relatively stable ESLS on the impedance swing.The Quad 2905s and the Acoustats and the Beveridge model 3s,are all pretty stable..Using an OTL amp deigned for full range ESLS are the ultimate because you have no crossover network whatsoever.You do have to have the bias supply built in the amps for the panels,but if you have ever heard them Paul,you would be amazed at how transparent and dynamic the ESLS can be.
Honest amplification is better than 2nd order distortion anytime.
Not.
There is so little energy needed up beyond 10 kHz or so that I don't think the issues are "real" on those grounds. However, whether the amp can tolerate the reactance is another thing. In my experience, solid state amps often cannot. Transformer-coupled tube amps work but sound ho-hum. OTLs make the music on ESLs.
I just don't like any of the full-range ribbons I have heard. They are a bottom-up speaker; the bass is fine and the frequency response seems to roll off gradually from the bass region on up. Now if you have a dedicated "tweeter" ribbon, that can and does work nicely. I've just never felt compelled to make such a radical change.
Well the very best sound I got from the Acoustats was with my KR Audio VA350i...a transformer coupled tube amp. Various hybrid amps WITHOUT feedback also worked well. I think the big key was the lack of negative feedback.
Now, I have a Single ended OTL hybrid (tube input and driver and a single big Mosfet for the output stage...all direct coupled and of course zero feedback) and it drives everything without complaint and with rock solid stability.
Moscode is a nice idea for sure. Have not heard one in many years.
Nope, never heard a Moscode...are they actually any good? I have heard them with Sphinx Project 14 and 16, Conrad Johnson Evolution 2000, AcousticPlan Santor and KR Audio Kronzilla monos and VA350i.
First of all, I did not take into account that you plainly stated the amplifier was "single-ended", so it could not have been a Moscode. Second, neither is the Kronzilla single-ended. So what SE amplifier that uses a single MOSFET for output are you referring to? Most of those on your list I have never heard of.
Yes, IMO, Moscode amplifiers sound very good, not good enough to tempt me away from my Atma-sphere amps, but certainly good.
Hi Lew,
Well actually the KR Audio Kronzilla is single ended...parallel single ended to be exact. They recently came out with a push/pull version, the DXL, but all the rest are Single ended hybrid (JFET/MOSFET input and driver and tube output).
My amp, the NAT Symbiosis SE, is a Single ended hybrid with only a single MOSFET for the output stage and a tube input and tube driver stage.
here is a link: http://www.nataudio.ch/cms/index.php?page=symbiosis-se-single-ended-integrated-amplifie
There is a picture at the bottom of the page...mine looks identical.
What a cool idea. I would love to hear one. How does it compare to Kronzilla?
Yes, that is exactly what I thought and why I had to get one. How does it compare to a Kronzilla? Funny enough even though they are 180 degree opposite designs (NAT: tube, tube, MOSFET; KR: JFET, MOSFET, tube) and both are single ended and both are Class A of course and there is no negative feedback on either they have very similar tonal balance and soundstage capabilities. Where the KR pulls ahead ultimately is a seeming slight bit more low level resolution and greater dynamic contrast...not that the NAT is in any way a slouch it's just the KR is the very best I have ever heard for this along with big Wavacs.
A big 4 Ohm ribbon that's 96+ dB sensitive can cope with less power from an OTL.
Sounds very interesting. I am not aware of any ribbon, except maybe an ultra-tweet, that is so efficient.
B&G has some out that carry these numbers.
Of course, when there's a dynamic woofer involved, there's some head scratching and measuring required to see how things will pan out in terms of biamping.
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