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In Reply to: RE: ESL panels in the Model 3 posted by Lew on December 24, 2013 at 07:07:24
Hi Lew,
No, the panels in the Model 3s are identical to the panels in the Model 2 and 2sw :Carbon resin stators as opposed to phenolic or FR4 type stators used in most of the Model 5s and up.
Yes, Modjeski has two OTL type products going: 1.) For "conventional" OTL's in the spirit of Futterman for any speaker and 2.) For driving right off the plates like your Model 2 and 2sw with sweep tubes. The latter is what I am going to get. There are stereo and mono models available and he can customize the number of tubes in order to drive greater of fewer panels for the current required. These direct drives can be used with any electostat.. you have to go in and attach the polarizing high voltage directly to the panels.. Quad and Beveridge (needs more current) included.
These Beveridges are what started my journey into electrostats some 30 years ago.. They are the very same speakers I heard back then at a local audiophiles home, he sold them and moved on and I purchased them off of the 80 something year old 2nd owner who wanted them to go to someone who would appreciate them.
I was too young and still in University back in the early 80's to afford the Beveridges so I journeyed through Acoustat X's (never should have sold them) Acoustat Model 3s , and still have multilple examples of ESL 57(I think my favourite midrange of all) and Quad USA monitors refurbed.
I need to purge a lot of collected equipment to make room for more "stuff" I do really want to simplify int he next year or so.. we'll see how the Beveridges fare. If the amps are good and DD has to be better than even an OTL into a step up transformer then I will get rid of all my amps and just keep the SET for a high efficiency set up. .. time will tell,
Follow Ups:
I did not know that about the Model 3 panels. How do they work when driven by a conventional amplifier externally? Did Bev provide some sort of special step-up transformers, in order to drive both the diaphragms and the stators?
That's a great collection you've got there, Audio Research SP3, Marantz 8B, Marantz (something; crossover?), Marantz 7C, Mac 275, etc. Is that a Futterman down on the lowest shelf?
We all regret selling things. I would love to have my Futterman H3aa's back, not to listen with but just to have them in memory of Julius. More than that, I regret selling my Porsche 550RS Spyder, because it's now worth ~$3 million.
Wow that Porsche is a true classic.
Yes Futterman H3 on the rack along with all the Marantz collection except the 9s : Model 1,2,5,7,8b and 10b.
Yes, the Model 3 Beveridges have a transformer and a voltage multiplier for the stators. Any amp can be used, but the woofers are said to be the weakest link. Thus, my decision to go with a crossover and 2 subs.
I will have to purge this stuff eventually. It is almost becoming clutter!
Roger Modjeski agrees that the subwoofer used in the Beveridge 2SW is poor; he says his new one is much better. I think he may have also said that the amplifier had reliability issues, but I don't recall. I have read descriptions of the imaging of the Beveridge that sound quite similar to what Lew says about them. I have done very little comparison between the Soundlabs a friend has and my Stax's, but I think I can say that the Stax's create a more focussed stereo image than the Soundlabs, and give a sense of dynamics (like Lew's description of the Beveridges) (without being as loud as the SoundLabs), but you do have to stay in one spot for the magic to work.
Kent McCollum is restoring a pair of Stax F83's and a pair of F81's at the present time; at least one of these may eventually be available for purchase.
The stax are one of the most transparent 'stats ever. I have heard a pair .Severely difficult to drive and inefficient . The don't play loud not even for an electrostatic .
The demands placed on amplifiers are incredible but they are one of purest available.
I have not heard Soundlabs either... Would love to some day.
If you read on the SLOG website, you may find where I and a few others have made a major mod to the "backplate" of the Sound Labs that to my ears is revolutionary. The idea was not mine; it was brought to me by email from a guy in Australia. We removed the hi-pass crossover and the toroidal treble transformer from the backplate and replaced the RC network and the toroid with a full-range 1:90 EI type ESL step-up that is made in Australia. Then we run the AU transformer essentially in parallel with the Sound Labs bass transformer. The only remaining passive element in the original crossover is a 1.5mH inductor, in front of the bass transformer. This and its own limitations sharply roll off the bass transformer above about 2kHz. The net effect is a huge upgrade in efficiency and transparency and elimination of a lower midrange suck-out (because the impedance used to dip to as low as 2 ohms somewhere between 500Hz and 1.5kHz, due to the R in the old RC network). Further Z of the speaker from 50Hz to about 5kHz never goes below about 20 ohms! It's at 8 ohms at 5kHz and rolls off gently from there. This makes the SLs easy to drive with a tube amp. I am quite sure that 50W from a good OTL or other tube amp is all you need to play LOUD.
Sound Lab countered this idea by a re-design of their toroidal treble transformer, such that now it goes down to lower frequencies and crosses over below the midrange, but they still use cursed resistors and more inductors. Nevertheless, their mods also improve the speaker, or so I am told. I am not tempted to adopt the new SL toroid, however, not at all.
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