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How much do you know about tuba sound? I went to the Chicago Symphony Orchestra concert last Saturday. After the concert there was a reception for donors, which featured some players from the orchestra answering questions from the guests. One of them was Gene Pokorny, the principle tuba player and holder of the Arnold Jacobs endowed chair. He brought the tuba to show us and told the story about the tuba and how the CSO acquired it. I found the story very interesting and thought it might be interesting to inmates.In the 1930's Leopold Stokowski, then music director of the Philadelphia Orchestra, wanted a tuba that sounded like an organ. He contracted a company to make two such instruments. The two were built, but it turned out the Philadelphia tuba player at the time was too obese to comfortably hold and play the tubas, so he sold them for $250 to the CSO tuba player, Arnold Jacobs. At some point the orchestra acquired the tubas.It turns out that the sound of these tubas is unparalleled, and are now considered priceless. Numerous brass manufacturers have studied and analyzed the tubas but have been unable to duplicate the sound. Somehow duplicating the measurements and materials did not result in completely duplicating the sound quality! Apparently no one can figure out why these tubas are so special.
Edits: 12/19/16Follow Ups:
I do think this is a very interesting topic, and one I don't know much about.
I learned, as I am sure many of you also did, in Culshaw's Ring Resounding, about the use of the F Horn by the Vienna Philharmonic. Just for fun, I Googled this and found the attached article, which says the F Horn is not a "French Horn", but a "Viennese Horn".
Are there other examples?
A Viennese horn is fairly unique to Austria and I understand is the dickens to play. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_horn Interestingly, the Austrians play a unique oboe as well rather than the French oboe used in the remainder of the world.
The Germanic countries have their unique Oehler clarinets and rotary valve trumpets. Many French bassoonists play a particular instrument unique to that country instead of the common Heckel system.
I don't know if it's still the case, but the Cleveland Orchestra used a bass drum that was larger and tuned lower than what's typically used.....
The Cleveland Orchestra and NHK Symphony also use rotary valve trumpets for mainly German and Austrian composers.....
Most American orchestras use 4-string basses, a lot of European orchestras use 5-string basses....
The Vienna horns used by Vienna's orchestras (not just the VPO), the valve keys are shorter in length, and the action on the tubing is a "dual piston", located opposite the keys. (French horns use rotary valves.) The horns also have interchangeable lead pipes ("crooks") of varying tube length (loops) for playing in different keys.
It can be AWFULLY thin sometimes:
I believe all the instruments used by the VPO are owned by the orchestra. If that is true the variability you hear must be on either the players or the recording.
Zuleger was the primary source of the Wiener oboe but when he died, the supply of quality oboes became scarce. Yamaha was persuaded to make the Wiener oboe in 1980 or so but I am certain they lost money as the demand was not great and they ceased production.
Now, there are a handful of artisans making the instrument. The differences you hear may be due to the variety of oboes now being used in the orchestra.
Opera Orchs will have Wagner Tubas, Basset Horns, C Clarinets.
Other orchs may have Contra Bassoon, Specialty Brass, maybe Contra Bass Clarinet, all very expensive Inst.
Like ABC orchestra uses XYZ type of instruments.
A symphonic orchestra needs Wagner tubas, too....Bruckner's 9th uses an army of them (the one time I heard it live, I sat behind them at Davies Hall....I have a clear idea of Bruckner's 9th as a concerto for Wagner Tubas and orchestra).
Every orchestra, no matter in the pit or on stage will have a core instrumentation. Depending on the score,"special" instruments may be called for such as Wagner tubas, basset horns, even saxophones.A favorite example is that Verdi did not like a traditional tuba and specified the use of a cimbasso, rather like a large bore valve trombone. Strauss' Salome calls for the rarest of the rare Heckelphone of which only about 120 examples exist in the world. Large orchestras will go to great lengths to adhere to the composer's desires in these matters.
Edits: 12/21/16
Mahler specifies a posthorn in the 3rd symphony, but from what I have read most orchestras use trumpets.
The only time I've heard/seen one live was when the SF Symphony did the Alpine Symphony about 10 years ago with Philippe Jordan conducting. You can also see the instrument on videos of the Alpine Symphony too, such as:
. . . although in this case, the SQ isn't that great.
I'm impressed! Yes, Strauss, Hindemith, and Varese were the prominent composers for the Heckelphone. Sadly, Heckel is no longer accepting orders for the instrument. Their wait list for bassoons is now up to eight years and I suspect they did not want to devote the time to the one order they receive a year for a Heckelphone.
As the story goes, Wagner wanted an instrument between the oboe and bassoon and encouraged Heckel to design one. Wagner died before it was completed but Heckel, being a wise businessman as well as manufacturer, encouraged Strauss to compose for the HP which he did.
I'm the proud owner of Heckelphone #5021 which was the last one to enter the US six years ago.
Well, German/Austrian Orchs tune much higher than in USA, tend to use regional Instruments that fit with that, for one example.
Here, Section Players will tend to use whatever the Principal is using to fit in/blend/tune.
Some groups may be more rigorous than others in uniformity.
I'm sure many don't care, as long as it sounds good.
Two questions....
I don't see mention of the name of the manufacturer.... Do you know by chance?
And did the manufacturer build other such instruments?
I don't know if the tuba was used in the Decca Solti/CSO Berlioz "Symphonie Fantastique" (the best performance IMO to make recording), but I do recall the articulation of the tuba in "March to the Scaffold", which I thought was spine-chilling. The tuba playing was phenomenal here.
But decided to give Todd's recommendation a try
The one I recommend is the one below...........
By the way, this performance is on YouTube..... But the tuba gets lost in the digitization..... But it's spine-chilling on vinyl.
1. Pokorny did not mention the name of company that made the tubas.
2. The CSO has owned the tubas for several decades. They take one on the tours that the orchestra takes; Pokory said that the tuba rides first class and he rides coach. So I would assume that it is the tuba you hear in the Symphonie Fantastique recording.
Another tid bit: Pokorny said that he has been with the CSO since 1989, except for one year in the 90's when he left for a job with the Los Angeles Philharmonic. He is from California and wanted to be closer to his family and roots. After a year he came back to Chicago because he loved playing with the CSO so much more.
York is the name of the maker. The Fantastique was recorded in Krannert? auditorium at the University of Ill Urbana as was the Solti Mahler 7th around the same time. These are among the best sounding of the Decca recordings as the hall is not so dry. However they still have the unnatural extreme stereo effect. Both these recordings illustrate the unique immediacy of resonance and vocal quality to the CSO brass. The orchestra played the Berlioz at Carnegie earlier and the 2nd tuba remarked that he would take 4 breaths on the last note to keep up with Jacobs upper octave.
Wasn't the Beethoven 9th also recorded at the Krannert auditorium?
Yes, the first Solti/CSO Beethoven 9th (the one with Pilar Lorengar as the soprano) was recorded at Krannert in the 70s. I don't know about the second Beethoven 9th (with Jessye Norman, from the mid-80s).
Well, no tuba in either version :)
gets special mention in the bonus rehearsal recording included in Ansermet's (1967?) reading of the Fantastique with the Suisse Romande on Decca/London. Ansermet encourages Barnsteiner to let loose with a passage, then utters what sounds like an enthusiastic "all riiiiight!" (and rightly so) when Barnsteiner finishes.
Jim
http://jimtranr.com
Carol Jantsch, Philadelphia
Edits: 12/20/16
Yowzah!
Thanks! Of course, Leopold Stokowski and Arnold Jacobs are both legendary figures, and that great story only adds to their legends. To me, the only mystery, beyond the secret to the sound of those tubas, is how anyone, with any physique, can comfortably hold any tuba.
I can hold a grandkid or a Tuba on my lap for hours. Only difference is the grandkid makes higher pitched noises.
60 something Chuck Daellenbach plays standing and uses either a strap or his custom lightweight fiberglass horn.
and that lightweight fiberglass. So cool! Now that my back gives me increasing trouble, despite religiously doing my exercises, I'd love to have an ergonomic solution too.
There are several ergonomic flute designs out there, but the most promising one, a conversion kit to play vertically like an oboe or clarinet, costs 5 grand so it would be risky to try.
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