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In Reply to: RE: Semyon Bychkov is counting backwards..... posted by srl1 on December 17, 2016 at 11:33:34
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I still have never heard if anybody has heard is Mahler 3rd. Am I the only person to hear this performance?
Alan
I have it on SACD and enjoyed it immensely. I think Chris had been looking for it,and I think he has commented on it before. This Mahler and his Brahms set are the reasons I had high hopes for the Tchaikovsky. Oh, well.
I did a search and there has been no discussion of the Bychkov mahler 3rd on Audio Asylum
Alan
My Favorite!!
Link below:
Take a look at this
Alan
.
I have heard it as a cd 16/44
Sounds awesome
Alan
not allow the .oooooooo1% of the world's population interested in Bychkov's Mahler to listen to it that way? It's not going to be bootlegged.
That's my only point.
But if that is the only way you can get it and you insist on higher sampling and bit rates you will deprive yourself of what I consider the greatest performance of the Mahler 3rd I have ever heard.
Have you for example never listened to the beethoven symphonies recorded in 1952 mono by the Berlin philharmonic conducted by Furtwangler? Or the Horowitz/toscanini 1920's recording of the Tchaivkowsky piano concerto? These are performances that in many ways have never been surpassed. The music and performances are much more important than the sound. A crap performance in great sound is still crap.
Alan
I enjoy some of those older performances too, and, perhaps in a certain way, they indeed have never been surpassed. But personally, I find that almost all of the performances from the 78 rpm era have at least been equalled by performances recorded in better sound. Sure, no one is going to approach the Tchaikovsky Concerto in quite the same way as Horowitz/Toscanini, but that doesn't automatically make Horowitz/Toscanini the best of all time. In fact, IMHO, the recording by Argerich and Kondrashin beats Horowitz and Toscanini at their own game! And if that Argerich recording is too much of a "wild ride" for some listeners, then the Janis/Menges performance on Mercury is even closer (and, again IMHO, superior in some ways!) to the Horowitz/Toscanini, but in far better sound. Again, I don't want to take anything away from the uniqueness of the Horowitz/Toscanini recording, and it's well worth investigation by interested listeners - the Janis/Menges version is not QUITE the same (it could never be!), but its approach is so close and the execution is so well accomplished that I prefer it in view of the much better SQ. In general, I would never recommend these older 78 rpm derived recordings as first choices in any given repertoire, as interesting and insightful as they might be - there may be one or two exceptions, but I can't think of any right now.
I strongly agree with your point that performances are more important than sound quality. But I wanted to correct a date in your post: Horowitz and Toscanini recordings of the Tchaikovsky first piano concerto date from 1941 and 1943. Horowitz didn't record that concerto in the 1920s. There are also some great broadcast performances of Horowitz playing this concerto in slightly better sound, including a 1950 version with Szell and NY Philharmonic that's easily located on youtube.
Regarding Furtwangler, yes! I have! I've mentioned that quite a few times in previous posts, though in no way do I expect anyone to keep track.
I think his Brahms 1st and 4th are unsurpassed. Same with the first Julliard Bartok cycle on Columbia.
I've defended Scherchen's Beethoven occasionally too. : )
I'm totally with you with regard to performance over sound.
A bit much for my budget as I an stream it via QPBUZ and TIDAL.
Still would like to have it.
Adler's rough and ready Mahler really works in the first movt, especially the "primordial soup" groanings, guglings and grumblings of the opening movt's first half. The musicians project was likely their own sense of wonder and discovery while getting the notes under their belt, and Adler holds the whole thing together quite well. The unleashing of the grand chorale theme towards the end of the finale is truly transcendant, and the lead up to it (pacing) feels totally natural but still spine-tingling. (I sampled Janson's interpretation of this stretch ans,sadly, he felt the need to yank it around in order to say something new and different. Damn these modern conductors!
I do hope Pristine releases this one someday. I loved the Harmonia Mundi Lp reissue.
and as it's still in the high 40's here so I won't be out on my bike today, the above is on TIDAL.
No Hi Rez here but that's OK.
I thought it was on your recommendation that I acquired my own (CD) copy. (Maybe it was somebody else?)
Chris,
Yes it was me
Found it on the Nexy Music Library. Of course streamed in 320 kbps but still sounded amazing. This whole idea if it is not in so called hirez people won't listen to a truly great performance shows no real love of music but only a love of technology. I am not talking about you Chriss.
I have several friends who are HiRez fanatics and I will play them something that I tell them is 24/192 and they will confirm how incredible it sounds and I them tell them it is 16/44 streamed from Tidal and they just can't believe it. Classicsonline still has a lot of 24/96 and 24/192 files and if you compare them to the same mastered 16/44 there is little if no difference
Alan
in the same thread!
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